How do you know if you are TG ?

[Anne Charlotte]

I have recently had a wonderful life-changing experience in that my wife has finally allowed me to dress in front of her for the first time in our relationship. She knew about my CD’ing before we were married, but had not really appreciated the impact of it all on my emotional stability.

Over the past 6 months, I have been treated for depression, and part of that was the result of a feeling of being trapped and unable to dress in the clothes I felt appropriate when I felt I needed to. We had tried compromises, but they proved to be unworkable, and now she has been absolutely wonderful about it all and very supportive. I have also started counselling and amongst other issues I need to resolve, I want to explore my gender identity.

My question is this:-

How do you know if you are transgender ? Is it something you feel from a very young age, and just instinctively know as you would if you are gay ? I cannot remember ever having the feeling of ‘I want to be a woman’, but I have always been extremely interested in the feminine side of me, and always feel more comfortable when dressed than when not. I also feel very disappointed that I do not have the right body-shape to fill the clothes.

I have done a COGIATI test, but scored right in the middle of the ‘transvestite’ zone. However, since I have had freedom to dress when I want, I find myself wanting to do it more and more, and have the feeling that I may want to transition to a female persona (even if I do not get as far as reassignment surgery). I am really confused over my gender both as a male and when dressed, and would welcome any comments from those out there who have gone through it themselves.

Thanks


Annie

[CaptLex]

My question is this:-

How do you know if you are transgender ? Is it something you feel from a very young age, and just instinctively know as you would if you are gay?
Anne:

Sorry I don't have any easy answers. In reality, it's something everyone has to answer for themselves - nobody can tell you what you are. Yes, for some people it's apparent since they can remember, and for others it's something they come to realize after many years. Not the same for everyone. I was able to find the answers in therapy, and I would say a gender therapist is a good place to start. Good luck.

[MarinaTwelve200]

The very FIRST thing you must do is DEFINE your terms . What do YOU mean by Trans gendered? Other people might define it differently than YOU.

You gotta be orderly and scientific about this. There are several different and often unrelated conditions under the term "Trans Gendered".

And also there is the real danger of fooling yourself. Fooling ones self can come from two directions---DENYAL of what may a "distasteful" aspect of ones self OR ACCEPTING something that may not be true (that one may wish to be a woman, for example) as a way to get to the real goal--a 'reward" of such, such as a "rush" or "thrill".

Self anaylis is tricky, but can be susseffuly done is one is aware of the ALL of rhe possible options and has them defined properly and also knowledge of the potential pitfalls.

[Teresa Amina]

I cannot remember ever having the feeling of ‘I want to be a woman’.

Lucky you! While I buried this as deep as I could most of my life, the desire to "Be" goes back in me as far as I remember. TG is a very broad definition, however, though it seems certain circles want it to be synonymous with TS. It's not, and while you may not feel you "always wanted" to be you do say you can envision some sort of "transition" (another word with many definitions). Sounds TG to me.

[GypsyKaren]

I can tell you this much, I never felt like I wanted to be a woman, I always felt like I was one, even when I was to young to understand it. But Lex is quite right, everyone is different, there's no single road to go down. Forget that silly test, it means nothing. I suggest to everyone that they find a therapist who specializes in transgender issues, they can help you find the answers.

Karen

[Anne Charlotte]

Thank you all for the input. Of course, you're all right !

There are so many and varied and complex issues to deal with, I am not sure myself what I feel or want.

I define transgendered as someone who feels more appropriate to the opposite gender role in society, rather than the opposite sexuality, which I define as TS. The boundaries are blurred I know, and this is compounded by my liberal sexuality. I have strong bisexual fantasies, and although I have never had a sexual encounter with another man, I am sure that given the right stimulation and atmoshpere, I would have no difficulty with it. This feeling is stronger when I am dressed. I have enjoyed anal sex with my ex-girlfriend using a strap-on, so the possibility of enjoying a similar situation with a man is not abhorrent to me in either male or female roles.

As a man, I can appreciate a good-looking woman, and fancy her, but there is always that pang of jealousy that I would like to look like that, and be fancied too........and that thought, along with my bisexual urges makes me wonder about who I really am inside.

Perhaps I am thinking too much about it all, and should just go with the flow for a while, but after bottling it all up for so many years now (about 33), I need to find some answers. Hence the decision to go for counselling.

Anyone else got any thoughts they can share ?

Thanks Again


Annie

[Kimberley]

I prefer to think we are all transgendered but in varying degrees. Otherwise why would we be crossdressing?

I think you are probably making the same mistake so many of us make and that is trying to put a definition on yourself. Believe me, it will make you crazy.

We KNOW who and what we are. It is impossible to lie to yourself. The problem comes when we try to rationalize, define or change it. Acceptance of self is the real road to living with this. There is no other way. Those of us who have managed to step through that door have found a whole new way of looking at things including ourselves.

:hugs:
Kimberley

[MarinaTwelve200]

I prefer to think we are all transgendered but in varying degrees. Otherwise why would we be crossdressing?

I think you are probably making the same mistake so many of us make and that is trying to put a definition on yourself. Believe me, it will make you crazy.

We KNOW who and what we are. It is impossible to lie to yourself. The problem comes when we try to rationalize, define or change it. Acceptance of self is the real road to living with this. There is no other way. Those of us who have managed to step through that door have found a whole new way of looking at things including ourselves.

:hugs:
Kimberley

I respectively dissagree with you on several counts. It you cant define yourself, then you can't get a handle on what you are about. We think in terms of WORDS and CONCEPTS if we have neither concerning a given subject matter, then we cannot constructively "think' about it.

CDing is an action based upon MORE than "degrees" along a continiumn or a "line " between A and B. There are several unrelated reasons behind CDing--so there several different "parallel" lines.

One might be sexuality, one might be gender, one might be "indentity" one might be a "Risk index" , etc, etc. It depends upon which of many factors (sexually related or otherwise) in your psyche induces you to CD.

And you CAN lie to yourself if you really dont know what is going on and also have a limited amount of data to work with. I used to think that I really wanted to be a girl myself--- I later realized that this was really NOT the case when I remembered and observed how I reacted when I was threatened with it (forced CD) on a couple of ocasions in in Real life.---I seriously FOUGHT it, I was NOT pretending either.

I concluded that while being a girl might be a fun fantasy, it would be a real bummer in real life. My concious mind was misled by the fantasy and I was REALLY wanting to be a girl for the "buzz" I got from identity shifting THAT was the real goal.-----Indeed being a real girl would be horrifying to me, but at the same time a GREAT "turn on"---the later aspect of which contributed to my misconceptions about my fem desires.

KIM, I think you were lucky and correctly evaluated yourself in terms of the Continiumn scale you are truly on. But for people who CD for other reasons than you, advice from a person who is on an A to B scale would not make sense to a person on a C to D scale, for instance---and the situation is even worse if an individual dosen't know other scales or factors even exist.

Im a Real Scientist BTW---so I have a unique approach to things--no offence intended :D

[Lisa Golightly]

Dunno.. all those tests are bunk... one insisted I was a woman... lol :) You are experiencing what some term 'gender euphoria' where you've suddenly been freed and are pushing your boundaries. Don't worry, it all becomes very mundane after a while.

As for me... well I always knew I was different. The boys that I used to be ordered to play with were never interested in discussing the sparkly oufits of the chorus line, and were never interested in dressing Action Man (GI Joe) in Sindy's (a UK Barbie) clothes and drawing makeup on his face with felt tip pens :)

[Lisa Maren]

Hi Annie

I'm trying to figure out the same thing. I'm confused about my gender.

Look for ways to explore your feelings, things that bring out some type of reaction in you.

One thing that I've been doing surprised me by helping me understand myself a bit better. It started out being a way of, well, making up for lost time, so to speak. I didn't get to dress up as a kid -- now I really wish I could have, of course -- and I would totally have passed, too, d@mn it! Anyway, I began writing stories as a way of creating some surrogate memories, I guess.

I realized something very interesting, however -- I've noticed a distinct homogenization of sorts, or perhaps I should say that I've found that I feel very drawn to and moved by certain types of CD/TG/TS characters and stories and basically "disconnected" with others. What I mean (regarding the trend in my stories) is that the main character (among other things) tends to be a boy who already has shoulder length hair and sometimes never did have a boy cut. She has always been a girly on the inside, loves crossdressing as soon as she starts or has always loved it, and finds out that she really is a girl and wants to become one for good. The plots do vary, but the nature of the crossdresser-but-really-a-tranny character tends to be the same, as I've described.

Initially, I did write some stories that varied, such as one with a boy who decided he was only a crossdresser, and I tried one where the boy found out that he just didn't like girls' clothes or being a girl, but I just couldn't get into those stories; I couldn't find the same excitement. They just wouldn't... resonate with me. I couldn't find the same feeling of inspiration for them like other stories. I guess that describes it. lol

On the other hand, the stories wherein the boy is a bona fide transsexual really do bring out my emotions (or perhaps it's the other way around)! In many of these stories, the boy-who's-really-a-girl finds a way to dress up totally and absolutely loves being a girl. She finds a way to be a girl right out in public for a while (ranging from dinner out to sleepovers and even whole weeks as a girl). Sometimes this comes about as a result of the girl's own efforts and in some cases it's a "convenient punishment" that serves as the catalyst to understanding and change. In other stories, the girl actually provokes a punishment of being dressed as a girl because it's what she wants. In still other stories, one of her friends "blackmails" her into exploring herself but returns all sensitive materials in the end. (The exploration is a success, of course, and the "blackmail" is always done by a female friend who fully intends to pull the whole thing off, if need be, before the CD/TG/TS gets embarrassed or overwhelmed). Anyway, these stories all feature the girl being dressed dressed as a girl or "being" a girl. These stories also feature the emotional scene where transsexual character finally understands that she's really a girl, knows she doesn't ever want to go back to being a boy, tells the mother everything (who always accepts and helps and enjoys doing so -- right, in my dreams lol). It's not just the dressing, either. There are experiences in there where the boy, dressed as her girl self and out with her girlfriends, has a run-in with an obnxious boy and defends her dignity or that of her friend. There's also the dislike for rough-and-tumble play and stuffing away one's emotions, etc. This fascinating difference between which types of stories resonate and which don't, I think, is very telling. I notice something similar when browsing the works of other authors (at www.storysite.org for example).

I notice something similar when browsing photos of crossdressed males. I don't identify with the ones who prefer young girls' clothes. I also don't identify with the ones who crossdress because they're most comfortable as a submissive or a maid to a mistress. I also don't identify with the pictures of... males who are just messing around and are only partially clad in female attire (and in a deliberately comedic manner) to be silly or as the loser of a bet.

I do feel something when I see someone doing her best to present as female for reasons that are ostensibly those of expressing one's femininity, someone who tries to get all the details just so and projects inner femininity.

I also notice, when I see a picture of someone dressed as a girl and striking a very sexy pose, that it tells me that the femininity in me is definitely a nonsexual thing. My CDing did start out as fetishistic, but there was definitely something else behind it, something noncarnal in nature. This I know because I wanted my CDing to stop turning me on so that I could just enjoy wearing the clothes without that. I think I was fantasizing about being able to dress up wherever and I didn't personally feel comfortable with walking around in a turned on state. This was many years ago and my CDing really hasn't turned me on since.

(I'm not knocking anything, mind you -- I'm a big believer in leaving everyone alone and letting them be what they want to -- it's just something I don't personally identify with.)

Anyhow, explorations like these can yield some helpful information. I highly recommend finding your own way of exploring yourself be it stories, poetry, music, painting, you name it. Take notice of what brings out your emotions, what you identify with, and what just doesn't feel like it describes you. It's interesting what one can find out.

Also take notice of how you feel or react when going from femme to drab or vice versa. When I go to femme mode (or at least as far as my current supplies will permit lol) I am always happy to do so and I want my masculinity to vanish completely. When I go back to drab mode, I don't feel any nostalgia for malehood or any sort of "glad to be back" kind of feeling.

Best of luck!

Hugs,
Lisa

[fiona_libby]

In my opinion you find out eventually through a life time of experiences exactly who you are, so my answer is, you just know who you are regardles of the way you may dress or act. You just are who are! I know that I am suppose to be a feminine identity and I am just battling to find a way to to be that identity when I live in a environment that is not understanding about anyone going through this situation and I cannot envisage abandoning any of my family or friends to transform myself, so I will continue the battle.

Lots of love

Fiona

[Siobhan Marie]

In my opinion you find out eventually through a life time of experiences exactly who you are, so my answer is, you just know who you are regardles of the way you may dress or act. You just are who are! I know that I am suppose to be a feminine identity and I am just battling to find a way to to be that identity when I live in a environment that is not understanding about anyone going through this situation and I cannot envisage abandoning any of my family or friends to transform myself, so I will continue the battle.

Lots of love

Fiona

I can only agree with Fiona, you are who you are. I have no desire to through gender reassignment. I have just come out and there is a long way to go and I will be continuing that particular battle until my dying day.

:hugs: Anna x

[cherll]

lisa this is cherll, Oh my god girl ! you have hit me to the tee sister. i can relate to every thing you said .

[ChristineRenee]

Annie...I have only realized that I was TG since about 5 years ago...and yet I think now that I have probably been this way all of my life and just didn't realize it. I am almost 55 now. I always thought that I was just a CD, but I also have known that I was in denial of Chrissie for many, many years. I guess you just finally get to a point after so many years that you just KNOW. I don't know how else to describe it to you. But once you do...it will all become clear to you. It will be at that point that you will decide...ok...this is who I am...how I am I going to proceed from here?

[Stlalice]

When we are doing presentations on transgender life and issues for our church we use the word "Transgender" as an umbrella term that includes all people who run counter to accepted societal gender roles. Think of a big umbrella or maybe a tent with a lot of smaller groups standing under it. You name it - CD, transexual, transvestite, gender bender, gender queer, bi gender, pre op, non op, post op, MTF, FTM - these and any other you can think of or name can all claim to be part of the Transgender community. Thus at this time it would be a mistake to try to put a label on yourself. Since you are already recieving therapy for depression I would strongly recomend that you see a therapist that specializes in gender issues and figure out who you really are - and only then when you are truly comfortable with who Anne Charlotte is do you need to decide on what to do about it. Take your time, once you come out to people around you and say "I'm a (fill in the blank) ." it is very hard to change what they will think. Go slow - coming out is easy but backtracking is nearly impossible. Good luck and let us know how you come out. :2c:

[catherine37]

Anne Charlotte,

I am not sure if anyone can tell us. Inside we just know. However often people are in denial "I am only CD" - but in the end it won't go away and then you finally admit it to yourself. But that can take a long time

Catherine37

[Kaitlynn]

It's said that coming out to yourself is often much harder to do than coming out to others.

I found this myself. I only woke up to my TGism last September, told my parents, one sister and brother in law, best friend and GP within a month, yet have only really started truly coming out to myself in the last couple of weeks.

[catherine37]

It's said that coming out to yourself is often much harder to do than coming out to others.

I found this myself. I only woke up to my TGism last September, told my parents, one sister and brother in law, best friend and GP within a month, yet have only really started truly coming out to myself in the last couple of weeks.

How did you manage to tell others before you had really accepted it to yourself?

[Caitlintgsd]

Anne Charlotte,

I am not sure if anyone can tell us. Inside we just know. However often people are in denial "I am only CD" - but in the end it won't go away and then you finally admit it to yourself. But that can take a long time

Catherine37

It only took me about 25-30 years. (I never said I was a quick learner)

[AmberTG]

I'm still struggling with this issue after many years of trying to hide parts of it from myself, I've been CDing sense puberty, as a young kid I guess I was a fairly normal boy, by the time I turned 21, I seriously wanted to change my gender. I've been up and down that way all my adult life, and people wonder why I was clinically depressed! I still don't know exactly what I want to do, I've always wondered if I could be passable enough to be accepted in normal life, I'd prefer to live a normal life as a woman and not attract unwanted attention, but at this point, that would take a lot of work. I'll be really happy when my electrolysis has gotten to the point where most of the facial hair is gone, that'll help soooo much. One thing at a time.

[Sarah Smile]

My two cents about discovering things about oneself:

Take a long, hard, honest look at yourself.

Consider the issue from every possible angle you can think of.

You are tansgender if that is a better explanation of who you are than not being transgender.

With, of course, the final caveats: 1. people change, and 2. new information may come along that may lead you to change your conclusion, so be prepared to accept these changes.

[catherine37]

It only took me about 25-30 years. (I never said I was a quick learner)

No, but you obviously got there in the end. It is never too late I suppose!

[Clare]

In my opinion you find out eventually through a life time of experiences exactly who you are, so my answer is, you just know who you are regardles of the way you may dress or act. You just are who are! I know that I am suppose to be a feminine identity and I am just battling to find a way to to be that identity when I live in a environment that is not understanding about anyone going through this situation and I cannot envisage abandoning any of my family or friends to transform myself, so I will continue the battle.I agree Fiona. I've always known I was different and believed in myself to a certain extent. It was the external factors of having to fit in with established societal norms that caused me self-doubt as a person. Aside from convincing myself that i'm 'normal', it is also extremely difficult to convey what transgenderism is to family and friends - its the same lack of knowledge that we ourselves start out with (which is ironic when you think about it!)


It's said that coming out to yourself is often much harder to do than coming out to others...

...yet have only really started truly coming out to myself in the last couple of weeks.Yes, so true Kaitlynn. It all comes down to self acceptance really. Just because others may know of your TG status,it doesn't mean you've fully understood who you really are - its a long term discovery process. I guess that explains why so many people come to accept themselves at older ages - i'm 43 and still trying to come to terms with my crossdressing/transgenderism!

[princessmichelle]

Anne Charlotte,

Like you I am asking myself if I am cd or ts, and also like you I recently had an experience which suddenly brought these issues to the forefront.

All I've learned so far is that I'm not sure. As I jokingly phrase it:
Trying to listen to how I really feel is harder than I think :D .

So I don't have any answers, but I'm grateful for this forum.

princess michelle

[cindianna_jones]

Ann Charlotte

I never thought that I was a woman in a man's body. But I always secretly wished I were a girl. I cross dressed for many years before my safe world came tubmling down upon learning of my "condition".

Once I was free to explore myself, once everyone knew about me, I felt compelled to move forward. And I made my transition in the late eighties.

But even until recently, I have never quite figured out what it was or why I was compelled to do the things I did.

During this year, I've been working on my autobiography and in the process of getting reviews for the work, Andrea James sent me a review and this was her final statement:

"I believe this story can be a source of inspiration for others facing similar difficulties, by showing that acceptance from others must start with self-acceptance."

Of all that I had been through, even in my own story I had written, I had never understood that my self-acceptance had been the key to my happiness. For some reason, for Andrea, that message rang loud and clear from reading my book.

I firmly believe that you need to find self-acceptance. I agree that therapy can help. I've always recommended this. But sometimes therapy alone is not enough. You will need to experiment. You need to test the waters of your desires and ambitions. That is why the standards of care require a real life test.

So don't give up girl. Get out there and have a little innocent fun.

Chin up and all of that.

Cindi

[Calliope]

I never thought that I was a woman in a man's body. But I always secretly wished I were a girl.

I would say that defined my perceptions - unless a recent 'revisionist' look at my back pages made me wonder... When I review the jobs I've held and the partners I've chosen, my life really resembles a woman's life. It was my mother who first brought that to my attention - earlier this summer: 'Gee, you really are the housewife.' My SO went to therapy for a while and her therapist concluded the same. More of the same through the decades past ... interesting.

[janedoe311]

The fact that you are asking it, says you are "confused". That is why it is called gender confusion.

Doctors and our society wants us to be either a male or female. If you feel comfortable as both, sometimes male and sometimes female then they see you as gender confused. That is the doctor’s problem. I am not gender confused because I would like to be a male sometimes and a female other times. I cannot say I identify with either a male or female all the time.

So what is TG/TS. Some see it as if you feel you are the wrong gender you are TG/TS, even if you suppress it and have or will do nothing about it.

I do not see someone that CD’s as TG/TS because they do not identify with one gender all the time. Most of us would love to be a female once in a while but not full time so we are not TG or TS.

The way I see it it is the doctors that are "confused" not us!

PS. I am not going to get in to the difference between TG and TS. Everyone seems to have their own ideas on those definitions, and they are changing.

[MJ]

first of all hi there that is a good question. but you can only answer that. i had a hard time dealing with the same question but for me it took some time before i knew the answer. even then it was real hard because unlike you my wife did not like my coming out now she is my ex and well my biggest fears came true i lost my wife and my sister and brother. but to your self be true and now i am a lot happier with myself. please give yourself time. after all your wife supports you. you are blessed

[joanlynn28]

I would have to agree with my friend Caitlin about the CD transgender issue, myself it only took 35 years to figure it all out and to accept myself as I am. Unforturnately there are others in my life that are not so accepting and that is sad, but to me I am still the same person that I was back then I have just finally figured out who and what I am. And know that I know that I can continue on with my life and become the person that I longed to be.

[Lisa Maren]

Hi again

I've been thinking about people knowing they're gay or transgendered and I realized that there's an important difference.

First, a couple of terms: I'm using the word "transsexual" to refer to those who identify as a member of the other sex and want GRS. I'm using the word "transgender" to refer to those who feel a mismatch between physical and emotional genders, but do not necessarily identify as a member of the other sex or want GRS.

One discovers one's homosexuality when one experiences a sexual urge directed to another member of the same sex, an urge to feed a particular type of appetite.

One discovers one's transsexuality when one experiences something completely different from an urge, something that is not an appetite. It can be a feeling, a yearning, a repression, an emotional claustrophobia or what have you. It can certainly be relieved, to an extent, by CD -- but transsexuality is not an urge and it does not feed an appetite. It is a need to make one part of the self match the other. CD is an urge for some people and in some cases, but not everyone who cross-dresses experiences an urge. Many of us feel not an urge, but a need. Personally, I feel repressed if I can't dress up and be myself at least part of the time, but CD is not an urge for me. It's something necessary for me to find inner peace and not fight myself.

I think that's an important distinction. Here's another:

Sexual orientation is a physical attraction to members of the same sex. Gender identity, on the other hand, is a collection of traits, values, and preferences.

Hugs,
Lisa

[Vivian Best]

Hi again

Sexual orientation is a physical attraction to members of the same sex. Gender identity, on the other hand, is a collection of traits, values, and preferences.

Hugs,
Lisa

Lisa'

You lost me on your statement particularily the first sentance. To me the statement defines homosexuality. Could you elobrate more? Tks,

[Ms. Donna]

Hi Anne,

I suppose that one could counter with the question: “What difference does it make?” TG or not, you are still Anne. If you have the opportunity to do what you want and live a life that’s fulfilling, does being TG even matter?

Ok, the escalating feelings. It’s known as ‘gender euphoria’ and it will subside as the novelty of dressing often wears off. This is not to imply that it will ‘go away’, but you will likely reach an equilibrium. Also, keep in mind that your wife’s ‘acceptance’ likely is not boundless. The chances that she will accept you transitioning are slim at best. It doesn’t mean she does not love you, just that she has expectations of her own and they likely do not include being married to a woman.

As to your gender ‘in general’: if you’ve not really ever dealt with your issues, you’re likely to go through a host of feelings and emotions relating to all of this. Whatever you do, do not make any sweeping decisions at this time. There are a lot of things to sort out and it will take time for both you and your wife. Please do not forget about her in all of this.

As you asked for opinions, from what you’ve said, there is a good chance that you’re TG. I have to agree with Kimberley that most crossdressers are to some extent transgender – especially if you are aware that crossdressing is doing something for you at a deeper level then simply being ‘fun’. However, being TG does not mean that you need to do anything specific. You do not ‘have to’ live as a woman or have SRS – or anything else for that matter.

If you’re going to go to a therapist and discuss ‘gender issues’, make sure you find someone qualified to do so. Look for someone who will focus on what you need to be happy and comfortable as ‘you’. If they are quick to ‘diagnose’ you or seem to want to TS track you, find someone else to see. You do not want to be TS tracked unless it is your only option for a reasonably normal life. I suspect anyone here transitioning will tell you it’s not a choice you make lightly.

Don’t be in a rush, Anne. Give yourself a chance to ‘play around’ and get comfortable with yourself before diving in deeper.

Love & Stuff,
Donna

[janedoe311]

Lisa'

You lost me on your statement particularily the first sentance. To me the statement defines homosexuality. Could you elobrate more? Tks,



“One discovers one's homosexuality when one experiences a sexual urge directed to another member of the same sex, an urge to feed a particular type of appetite.”

I see homosexually (sexual/gender preference or Sexual orientation) as this.
Gay men are attracted to men sexually. They are not celibate it is a sex appetite.

They prefer male companionship but the idea of no sex would be just as big as a turn off as having sex with a woman. Do you know any gay men that never have sex? They need sex. So it is more of an obsession and an appetite that needs to be filled. It is like that part of the brain is enhanced. (In women it is called nymphomania- abnormally excessive and uncontrollable sexual desire in women. But in men it is OK.) Sad is it not that we are so sexists?

Gender ID: TG and TS and CD’s feel they are in the wrong body. Sex is not a requirement. They could be attracted to men or women. Some after find they SRS are then attracted to men. I believe it is a desire to be “normal” and heterosexual. (I Know if I turned into a women overnight I would find being a lesbian and having anything to do with Lesbian’s and the Gay culture and movement as repulsive, or more as having sex or a relationship with a man. Probably would either FORCE myself to be with men or become celibate.)

(I doubt a lesbian would except a platonic relationship.)

In any case that is my thought on homosexuality.

[CaptLex]

I beg to differ, Jane. I don't know how many gay men or lesbians you have known, but guessing by your statements I would say probably not many. Those are all generalizations, which means there will be cases where what you're saying is not necessarily true. Yes, I've known gay men who were celibate and gay men who are faithful to their partners. I'm sure there are probably lesbians who are also celibate, but I don't know too many lesbians, so I can't say. I disagree that gay men are necessarily more promiscuous. Men usually have a more active libido than women, so I can understand why it seems that way when two men get together. And even if it's true in most cases - what's the harm? As long as each person knows what they're getting into.

Homosexuality is just being attracted to the same sex. It's not a pathology or a perversion. It's not that something got screwed up in the wiring. We're all attracted to different things, but just because heterosexuality is more prevalent, doesn't mean there's anything wrong with gay people. I'm sorry if it's repulsive to you.

Also, a lot of people are more attracted to the inner person and can negotiate the external features. I think when people realize they're TG and/or TS they begin to open up their minds to the possibilities of being with people they've never considered before - people of the same sex, people of the opposite sex that present as the same sex, etc. This doesn't mean they're trying to act "normal" and be something they're not.

[MarieTS]

To all who have posted on this thread: I've read a great deal on this site. Yet, I honestly don't remember a thread with posts that rival the responses you have provided on this topic. From a standpoint of depth, expression, voice, and accuracy, your contributions are superb. What wonderful sisters we all have. Wow! :hugs:
Anne Charlotte, I'm not sure if you got your question answered to the extent you had hoped for, but you've certainly been given a variety of perspectives that will start you on the road to finding the answer yourself. Simply enjoy the path gender counselling takes you down. Celebrate yourself for who you are, and remember, there are no wrong answers.

[Lisa Maren]

You asked about where I said "Sexual orientation is a physical attraction to members of the same sex. Gender identity, on the other hand, is a collection of traits, values, and preferences."

That first sentence is hard to understand because I mucked it up!

I was trying to say that the definition of sexual orientation is the physical attraction to one or more genders. The definition of gender identity includes traits (e.g. less agressive, being more reserved, being very emotional, etc), values (e.g. caring more about how people are feeling than how many points they're racking up) and preferences (e.g. preferring An Affair to Remember over The Terminator or preferring a dress to a suit).

Heterosexuals and homosexuals alike share one or more of those qualities, but sexual orientation and gender identity are different constructs.

There, that's better!

Hugs,
Lisa

[CaptLex]

While there are some hyper sexually active gay men, most gay men are only a little more active than hetero men (and there is reason to believe that the primary difference between the two groups is simply that women are considerably more likely to say "no").
Yeah . . . isn't that what I said? :idontknow:

[CaptLex]

From a standpoint of depth, expression, voice, and accuracy, your contributions are superb. What wonderful sisters we all have.
Ahem . . . . "sisters"? . . . What am I, invisible? :rolleyes:

[Siobhan Marie]

Of course you're not Lex.

:hugs: Anna Marie x

[MarinaTwelve200]

“
Gender ID: TG and TS and CD’s feel they are in the wrong body. Sex is not a requirement. They could be attracted to men or women. Some after find they SRS are then attracted to men. I believe it is a desire to be “normal” and heterosexual. (I Know if I turned into a women overnight I would find being a lesbian and having anything to do with Lesbian’s and the Gay culture and movement as repulsive, or more as having sex or a relationship with a man. Probably would either FORCE myself to be with men or become celibate.)

(I doubt a lesbian would except a platonic relationship.)

In any case that is my thought on homosexuality.

Not ALL CDs feel that they are in the wrong body---What about us that CD to "escape" our usual identity? Or those of us who CD for the Thrill or rush or for fetish reasons? only SOME CDs CD because they feel like they are in the wrong body.----INDEED you cant really term one a CD as CD is an ACTION that some gay, TS and TG people do also.

CDing is what some of us DO in a response to many different, unrelated sexuality and identity conditions. it is merly a common act or "symptom" common to all. Terming a person a "CD" really makes little sense as it is something we DO, not what we are. You dont call a sick person, for example, a "Cougher" as it tells you nothing of his condition.---you say "he has a cold" or "he has Whooping cough"-----

Now, NOT to imply that being TG or TS is an "illness", TGs and TSs and people with some identity issues often CROSS DRESS. (along with fetishists and escapists) indeed they are ALL Crossdressers. In my opinion, CD cannot be put in the same list of categories as TG TS or gay CD is an ACTION common to all of them,

Sorry about my Scientist mode :D

[CaptLex]

Of course you're not Lex.

:hugs: Anna Marie x
Thanks, Anna Marie, sometimes I'm made to wonder. :eek:

Good discussion, people, please carry on . . .