Are We Really Different ?

[Melanie]

I'd like to know what you think of mahco men.These could be relatives,friends,co-workers or any other posturing male figures you've encountered lately.What is it about men who have to swear all the time, get sarcastic,mouthy and sometimes just plain belligerent?.

I like to think I am different,I am not perfect,I have my moments,albeit small ones and rarely.Yes I get a little impatient whilst driving,but do not holler out of the window unless another driver almost kills me of course.I think that is understandable.

Being a musician I play a lot on weekends in clubs and bars.I just got in from a gig and experienced the macho nonsense described above.I find many musicians to be total know it alls.I am easy going unless insulted and that gets my back up as it would most ppl.I just generally find the majority of men that I've met in life to be jerks.And drunk ppl just plain annoy me.

So does this make CD/TG's different than most men?.Are we as men more sensitive, more open to others needs, more emotional? are we in fact gentlemen? as in being gentle?.
I am gentle unless threatened.I refuse to get into arguments or male one upmanship with anyone.I cannot tolerate the boasting,competitiveness, or attempts from others at being the domineering male.
It's all just so primate like and this revolts me as a man and as 'Melanie".

I know some of you will accuse me of stereotyping here,but it is my experience I'm talking of and hey I am a man too,so I have a right.

I just think men should let their gentle side come through more often IF they actually possess one.Opinions here please.......

Hugs,

Melanie :hugs:

[Lil Miss Bekkah]

I agree, for the most part. Keeping in mind of course that it's not nearly absolute. After all, some of those posturing "macho's" posture so much because they have some frillies hidden in their drawer back home. But in general CD's seem to be more open and understanding, probably because that's what we want from others

[Kate Simmons]

Men are all about posturing and pissing contests. I guess it's programmed in so as to attract a mate. This carries over unknowingly into other aspects of life in addition to reproduction. You have to realize that as Ericka, I'm so "sugar and spice" goody two shoes either. Sometimes my speech would put a truck driver to shame. Not because I'm trying to be macho, mind you. It's to show people I'm no "pushover" just because I'm a woman (or a CD). I love people for who they are but don't take any BS from anyone either. I've been known to deck a few guys as Ericka if they've gotten out of line. The point is that everyone is an individual. There is no magic button to push when we put on a dress, wig and makeup. I usually have a softer manner as Ericka but this gal has a mind of her own and doesn't intend to change any time soon. Ericka Kay

[Angie G]

Hi Melanie when I'm dressed in drab I'm not to diferent from Angie I do use some 4 letter words more at work but I'd sooner dance then fight or play cards all night I'd sooner put on a skirt then pants or heels to sneakers
sooner give hugs then slugs :hugs:
Angie G.

[Joy Carter]

I'm not much differant than you Melanie, I'm totaly embarased at my one friend who thinks he has to be the center of attention by flaunting his maco attitude. I'm not one to shrink given the circumstanses though but I will walk away. I feel it's my job to be an example to others on how to be a man. Being macho gets you no where, or is there a GG who would disagree +?

[MarinaTwelve200]

I dont think it has anything to do with "sensitivity". but rather a LACK of confidence in their own manhood. Not knowing what "gay" really means, and likely not knowing what it means "to be a MAN"---they both FEAR they might be a tad "gay"(Horrors! it MIGHT SHOW) and that they may not measure up to "MANLY" standards.

Some also still feel like "little boys", not really "grown up men." That might show too, and MUST be remidied.

To make up for this ignorance and show everybody that they are indeed men, they latch onto "stereotype" patterns learned in childhood of what a "real man" is suposed to be.

A "real man" is hetrosexual----so they have to make sure that all those around them know that---hense the loudmouth whistles and sexual comments to women in a public forum.---More for the benifit of other guys around him rather to the woman, so his freinds dont doubt his hetrosexuality.

Of Course a "real man" must also engage in doing things that children (little boys) "Cant" do. These include Drinking,especially to excess, as being drunk is a display of evidence that he drinks (like a real grown up man) , smoking cigarettes, we all "Know" that little boys cant smoke cigarettes, so a smoker MUST be a "man" And finally, CURSING. Little boys dont curse either--That's BTW, WHY little boys DO curse-- to "sound like grown up men" .

Most of this macho BS, as we can see, is based upon a "9 year old kid's IDEA of a man", rather than actual manhood itself. So we can trace these behaviour patterns to childhood, and usually to boys who lack a MAN figgure in their lives---so they base their behaviours on KIDS' IDEAS of what a "MAN" is supposed to be.


These "macho" guys are men that lack confidence in their own manhood. To be more "Sensitive" only means to act like a "normal" man, one who isnt torn by self doubt and a "need" to hide his "shortcommings."

I dont think that us CDers are any more "sensitive" than a "normal" male. And face it , to be a CD it HELPS to have confidence in our selves. Its the "macho guys" who are the freaks.

[Tina Dixon]

Being a biker and going to many events I see these guys al the time, its no big deal really, people are just people.

[Han]

Part of the greatest things of cross-dressing I think, is the ability to swap genders depending on my mood. Although I am far from a 'Macho' man, which I put down to gender insecurity, I do have my moments, and I certainly don't have the cleanest of mouths when I am a man, out with the guys. I get drunk like a lot of guys and girls. I must say, I don't get violent or brash anybody for anything.

We are I believe however, we are more sensitive than most men, and we are more likely to be softer in our approach. However, I do know many men, who are so scared of any femininity so exaggerate their masculinity.

[Karren H]

So does this make CD/TG's different than most men?.Are we as men more sensitive, more open to others needs, more emotional? are we in fact gentlemen? as in being gentle?.

Hugs,

Melanie :hugs:

Gentle....you haven't seen me gentley crosscheck someone into the boards!! Hehe

We are different...more as individuals with a common bond than as a group, in my opinion..

Love Karren

[lahr]

Ive pondered this question my self. I only know two other CDrs personally and they, like me seem to me more sensetive and considerate of others. I have a few macho co workers like you described. Theyre offenseve to say the least. One brags of how he spent jail time for beating up a (faggot) Thats really something to be proud of huh? I wish those dreadfull people would just go away.

[Kate Simmons]

Gentle....you haven't seen me gentley crosscheck someone into the boards!! Hehe

We are different...more as individuals with a common bond than as a group, in my opinion..

Love KarrenYa got that right Karr. I'd venture to say we are the product of our mixed natures whether we realize it or not. That's kinda what makes us unique in a way. Ericka Kay

[kayla_cd_va]

Most men are not as comfortable with themselves as we are. Nothing is as sensual as fem. Let's be happy that we are different.

K

[kathy gg]

I certainly don't want to seem like I am standing up for the macho guys, because I get annoyed just as much as anone else when I see testosterone overload....

BUT...I have known plenty of so called "macho-guys" in my life and have also had the inside knowledge from the girlfriends or wives that the "macho" attitude can be alot fronting. Alot of the most manly men in public are the most whipped at home or they have very overbearing wives in private. Which I assume makes them want to take out their agression on others....or sometimes these macho guys might be really sensative but only their SO sees that side of them.

I can remember some of my friends telling me how caring and sensitive their "macho" guy was in private but out in public he would never show that because of havin to deal with hell from friends.

I do think there are plenty of guys who would not have a sensative bone in their body, but I think most men will not share their softer side with other guys for fear of being teased or picked on, so they follow the herd and keep their sensative side to their wives/gf's or their mom.

[Kimberly]

I agree, Kathy. Most macho-ness is talk. Showing off to the lads. I just can't get into that whole institution of having to show off to be a proper man.

If I have to choose between being a proper man and a "wimp", "girl", whatever... I'll choose the girl, thanks. :)

[angelfire]

I actually had a bad experience with macho guys this weekend. A friend of mine (Who is as macho as they come) was having a cottage party. He ended up getting into a heated arguement over a card game because he tried to make up a rule and no one bought it. He ended up yelling at everyone and storming off. Later that night we ended up at a bar. Again, picking a fight with a friend, and pushed him. This kind of attitude continued all night.

Despite everyone telling the 2 guys to just calm down, apologize to eachother and be over it, they were both too macho and proud.

To be totally honest, I think it is to be more a man to be able to accept you were wrong and apologize for your mistakes, and to walk away from a fight than to be too proud. A real man can show restraint and self control.

I can be macho too though. I never start fights though, and have never really been in a fist fight (Only twice, and I walked away from the fight both times). I drink, but I don't smoke. And when I have been proven wrong, I can accept defeat with dignity. Unlike some people who will argue against you that the sky isn't blue.

[Kate Simmons]

Okay then, it finally comes out that a lot of us are really gentlemen in guy mode. No surprise to me really.Truth be told, I'm a lot gentler as Richard than I am as Ericka, preferring to discuss things and come to an agreement rather than resort to physical fighting. Ericka on the other hand has an attitude and won't take anything from anybody, especially macho types. I can be sweet and gentle as the next gal but as David Banner said in "The Hulk", "Don't make me angry, you wouldn't like me if I'm angry". Being Richard balances my temper as Ericka and that my dear friends is the real reason why the boy is still around and why I could never even consider transitioning.:happy: Ericka Kay

[Deanna2]

Everyone is different and that's what makes humans so fascinating.

I think the trend in this thread is labeling people and isn't that what dozerns of other posts here have tried to avoid. To use an old expression, it like the pot calling the kettle black (which probably doesn't mean much nowadays in the electric age).

Nobody here likes being labeled because of their desire to wear femme gear, so why are you all doing the same thing to other people?

[Marla S]

So does this make CD/TG's different than most men?.Are we as men more sensitive, more open to others needs, more emotional? are we in fact gentlemen? as in being gentle?.

Though there is some truth in it, I wouldn't generalize it.
The only thing we all have in common ist that we wear clothes labeled woman's wear. We do this to a different extent, different times, and with a different view on it. We have different traits, which are usually assigned feminine accompaniying it. We might pitch on the one or other extra traits to underline our feminity, but this is different for everybody too.
On the other side we are GMs, got the corresponding brainwash, and played that role most of our life. This leaves marks.

[Calliope]

'Are we really different?' I know I am - and that difference has contributed significantly to my fem identification.

My parents - who always pressured me into karate classes and stuff like that - talked me into the joining the US Navy when I turned 18. What a horrorshow, those dudes were animals.

I impugn men and all their trappings.

[KarenSusan]

I think that being TG has made me more gentle in guy mode. It certainly
has made me more sensitive and emotional. I will cry at a sad TV show or
movie sooner than my sister. Embarassing in guy mode.

[Kate Simmons]

'Are we really different?' I know I am - and that difference has contributed significantly to my fem identification.

My parents - who always pressured me into karate classes and stuff like that - talked me into the joining the US Navy when I turned 18. What a horrorshow, those dudes were animals.

I impugn men and all their trappings.Wish we could have traded Day. I would have loved to learn Karate and although I wasn't in the Navy was in the Army with two tours in Nam. Where there is a will there is a way though. I CDed over in Nam on my second tour and my Vietnamese GF helped me. Go figure. Ericka Kay

[Sejd]

I have to disagree with you. I don't think we are different when it comes to attitude. In some ways, I enjoy the playful and cobatant side of what it mean to be a man. some men are sensitive, I am one of them. It has sometimes been a blessing and sometimes a curse. I like, in the right situation to be able to stand up to any jerk and say "What the ****** are you talking about you Moron?" and not back down. Not because I could beat him, but because I am a man and I don't take any shitt from anyone. I think you are confused by the notion that the world would be more peacefull if it was run by our femme nature. NOT SO. No women in history has shown to be more gentle or kind than men in general. If you want kindness, you have to work on it! Or maybe you are just lucky and have been born a kind loving nurturing human being. Good for you. Just don't think that our need for the feminine makes us any better than the rest of this misserable and at the same time wonderful world.
Namaste
Sejd

[Melanie]

[quote=Sejd;54373- "I think you are confused by the notion that the world would be more peacefull if it was run by our femme nature. NOT SO. No women in history has shown to be more gentle or kind than men in general. If you want kindness, you have to work on it! Or maybe you are just lucky and have been born a kind loving nurturing human being. Good for you".

Confused I am certainly not.Yes I too stand up for myself and have had to do it probably more frequently than many men,me not being that tall. Yes I will not back down from anyone either.I am reasonable unless threatened,then I am anything but pleasant.
So you don't think that Mother Theresa,Florence Nightingale or the sadly missed Princess Diana,have not been proved to be be more kind or gentle than men?.I think you may be confused here.And yes in most circumstances I am a very kind and nurturing type.
I also didn't say we are better than anyone,but I know I am probably more caring than the majority of ppl I encounter.Ok enough boasting on my part haha!

[Kate Simmons]

We need to be balanced for sure. The femme side is no better than the homme side as I know maybe more than most. I've been working on this balance for a couple of years now and it's hard. My emotions are split between both sides of me. I find it curious that my femme side is the more aggressive. Maybe it's because I hate stereotypes, I dunno. I do know that the Yin/Yang energies need to be balanced in my case in order for me to function properly. Being on the Forum for the last four months has given me greater insights into this indeed and I've met some good friends along the way. Understanding ourselves and each other is pretty much the key to everything. Hopefully, we can move forward with confidence and mutual respect. Take care my friends, Ericka Kay

[ChristineRenee]

One thing I have always noticed about macho men is that really seem to be proud to be a jerk or an asshole...like it's some right of passage to manhood for them. What I LIKE about women conversely is that they, generally speaking, are much more civil and sensitive to others feelings, and apologetic when they realize that they may have unintentionally hurt someone's feelings. Macho men could care less about someone else's feelings. It is more important for them to project this image of themselves to others...no matter how they may truly feel about themselves and their own masculinity.

It's been my experience with these types that the more braggadocio they are in public...the more insecure they are inside about themselves.;)

[Calliope]

Wish we could have traded Day. I would have loved to learn Karate and although I wasn't in the Navy was in the Army with two tours in Nam. Where there is a will there is a way though. I CDed over in Nam on my second tour and my Vietnamese GF helped me. Go figure. Ericka Kay

I can't.

One of the biggest regrets of my life was not using my dressing to get out of the horrible military.

[Melanie]

Christine Renee,
I couldn't agree with you more and some of the other girls posts .Yes macho men definately have problems.

Thanks for your responses girls,
hugs,


Melanie :hugs:

[Charleen]

YES!!!!!!!!:thumbsup: :D Love and xxxx, Lily

[Bobbie cd]

Being a biker and going to many events I see these guys al the time, its no big deal really, people are just people.

What she said!

Honestly, like Tina, having been to a lot of biker events and having seen an amazing range of human (and sometimes admittedly, semi-human) behavior, I can say that a lot of that macho stuff is mainly fronting. Behind the scenes, most of these guys are just regular people like anybody else. There are the rare individuals who do actually revel in being complete jerks and making a total nuisance of themselves. On the other hand, some of the most truly dangerous individuals that I have ever met have also been some of the nicest and most courteous people that you would ever meet.

I try not to judge too much.

[julie w]

a confident man does not have to be rude , I dont think a lot of women are
turned on by macho rude men .both my daughter and gf think red neck guys
in big trucks have small dicks , dont shot the messenger

[Gunda]

I'd like to know what you think of mahco men.These could be relatives,friends,co-workers or any other posturing male figures you've encountered lately.What is it about men who have to swear all the time, get sarcastic,mouthy and sometimes just plain belligerent?.


So does this make CD/TG's different than most men?.Are we as men more sensitive, more open to others needs, more emotional? are we in fact gentlemen? as in being gentle?.
I am gentle unless threatened.I refuse to get into arguments or male one upmanship with anyone.I cannot tolerate the boasting,competitiveness, or attempts from others at being the domineering male.
It's all just so primate like and this revolts me as a man and as 'Melanie".

I know some of you will accuse me of stereotyping here,but it is my experience I'm talking of and hey I am a man too,so I have a right.

I just think men should let their gentle side come through more often IF they actually possess one.Opinions here please.......

Hugs,

Melanie :hugs:


Melanie,
I hear ya, I don't like loud-mouthed men who think they must act like borish bullies in order to compensate for their own inadequacy either - neither do I much care for catty, mercurial, women who can't take criticism or who interpret every male initiated interaction with them - however innocuous or well-intentioned - as threatening.
I think though, that while a great many men do do a number of things or think in certain ways - they are, at the end of the day, men after all - the worst of us guys should not be taken to represent us all. I am a typical hetero dude in many ways but I'd rather talk over current events than sports, prefer talking out differences than aimless, pointless, posturing, and break out in a cold sweat when people so much as raise their voice around me, and I am also a CD. Yet I am incontrovertably male and thats OK - there are many kinds of guys and many kinds of women - most do not fit the worst stereotype of either gender described above, I know I don't.

Best,
Gunda

[kateyliz]

My mantra for the machos is "If you think you have to worry about your macho image, well, maybe you do". So many of the typical behaviours come from some seemingly collective agreement about what one needs to do to SHOW everyone just what a real man he is. I am who I am, if you don't like what you find, there are llots of other people in the world, try one of them. This is one of the areas where my size has come in handy, most guys are hesitant to start anything with someone who looks like a linebacker even when he is gettting old. Just trying to get along, Kathy

[CheriTV2006]

All in all, I don't think we are different in general, as men (as well as women) come in all kinds of temperaments, attitudes, sensitivities, beliefs, and disfunctions. I've known some rough tg's also as well as sweet one's. Men who live by the macho stereotype are definitely scary to most as far as I'm concerned and I agree with all what these posts have to say. I've always felt alien inside to macho's. As far as dynamic in being a cd, I'm reminded of Dr. Paul Walker's suggestion in my fav old documentary, "What sex Am I?" that kids sometimes get mixed messages that "males are rude and abrasive....don't be like that." Could possibly apply.