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Dragster
08-30-2006, 08:10 PM
I first posted this here yesterday and have now reworded parts of it to take on board most of the suggestions offered. Here it is in its revised format.

I know I’ve posted here about the saga of my quest to get my wife to accept (even in a small way) my need to crossdress. It’s been ongoing for almost 18 months now, and we’re at an impasse; I want to see some progress, and she will only reluctantly discuss it with me, does not really want to know any more about it, sees it as a disgusting habit (but won’t/can’t explain what is disgusting), is unwilling to talk to anyone else about it (councillors, or other SOs here on CD.com anonymously) and can’t understand why I just can’t stop. Others have suggested it is her way of trying to control the situation (and me) so she does not have to confront what is to her a painful reality. Like others here, I expect to reach a closer relationship with her if she can genuinely accept this part of me. She appears to be in denial. Whilst I do sympathise with her situation, after all, she did not sign up to this at the altar 37 years ago, I don’t now think it’s right for me to continue to dress “behind her back”, and I don’t believe I can just stop for long. Has anyone else?

To try to kick-start the discussion again, and at least get to a workable solution, acceptable for both of us, I decided to write a “Fairy” Story, a summary of my crossdressing experiences from the very beginning, and its effect on me and on our relationship to date. I wrote it in a humorous vein, and in the third person, starting “Once upon a time, there was a little boy we’ll call Tony…..” but I won’t include it all here, it’s far too long, almost six A4 pages of Times New Roman, 12 point!. I’ve told her most of it already, but I think she may have blanked out a lot of it, right up to our current situation, but it’s more difficult to ignore on paper. Then I offer her a choice of endings to the story, and an invitation that if she didn’t like any of them, she should write her own ending. I haven’t given it to her yet because I’d really like some feedback from you, particularly the GGs, on the advisability of following this approach. Do you think it will have the effect I’m seeking, or will it only inflame the situation? I know it’s still quite long, but here’s the endings I’m offering-

"Many fairy stories have a happy ending. You now have an opportunity to choose the ending to this one. Here are some options.

Ending One

Tony’s wife remains unable or unwilling to change her view that crossdressing is disgusting and perverted. It may be based on misconceptions and lack of knowledge, but she finds it too painful to contemplate learning more about Tony’s “hobby”. She hopes that by trying to control his crossdressing by subtly disapproving of it and avoiding any discussion, it will just go away. In an attempt to find a mutually acceptable compromise, Tony tries to give it up and stops crossdressing. He achieves a measure of success, does not crossdress or make contact with his friends on the Forum for a few months and his wife initially seems a little happier now that the problem appears to be solved. However, Tony feels like a child whose favourite toy has been taken away, he thinks more and more about it, longing for its return. He realises that he has a need which is not being satisfied. His wife becomes aware that Tony still has a strong desire to crossdress and finds it a turn off. She cannot find the enthusiasm for a resumption of the sex life they used to enjoy, which is one of the few other areas where they had disagreed in the past. Tony becomes more and more frustrated, even losing some of the happy-go-lucky outlook on life that he had. To at least achieve some measure of satisfaction, he starts crossdressing again behind his wife’s back, in spite of the risk of discovery and the effect it may have on their relationship. Neither of them is really happy with the arrangement.

Ending two

Tony’s wife is still very uneasy with the whole subject of crossdressing, but realises eventually that this is an integral part of her husband’s character. If she still wants to spend her life with him, it’s part of the package, warts and all. She seems upset that she didn’t sign up to this aspect of his character at the altar, but in 37 years of marriage, there have been many changes in both of them that neither of them signed up for at that time either! After all, she did marry him for what he was then, and that was the combination of male and female characteristics that included the crossdressing, even though she did not know about that at the time. She decides that she is not going to throw away 37 years of otherwise happy marriage, and so had better find out more of what this subject is really all about. She seeks further information from the internet and from books, much of it provided by Tony for her. She confirms much of what Tony had told her, and through much discussion with him, satisfies herself that he is not gay, doesn’t want to change sex, nor for any other friends and relatives to know his “secret”, but just feels the need to dress in female clothes from time to time. She finds that she can accept that, it no longer seems such a big deal, but she still does not want to see him in anything but his male clothing and is still terrified of anyone else finding out about it. She likes him as a “manly” man, and still believes that seeing him in female clothing would destroy her ideal image of him. They come to a workable agreement of when and where his crossdressing can take place, where the clothes are stored, how much is spent to pursue the activity etc., and although this seems terribly restrictive to Tony, he realises that half a loaf is better than no loaf at all. In time, some of the restrictions are relaxed somewhat, and his wife even realises that accompanying him for clothes shopping creates far less suspicion of who the clothes are really for. The more open attitude between them also results in a less inhibited sexual relationship, which benefits them both, but many restrictions still remain. Both of them are relieved to know that this is no longer a threat to their future happiness together.

Ending three

Following on from ending two, Tony’s wife begins to realise that far from becoming a bone of contention between them, the agreement on crossdressing has actually drawn them closer together. She continues to read more about the subject, and joins the Forum where Tony is a member, to see what others have to say on the subject. There is even a “Wives Only” section, where she can ask any question she likes and share experiences, knowing that it is only other female partners who can read her input, and anyway, everything can be anonymous on the internet! She begins to lose some of the inhibitions she had on the subject, and begins to get curious as to what Tony looks like when dressed. They agree that it would be a good idea to satisfy this curiosity on a gradual basis, so Tony wears only one female item of clothing at first, before adding more as time goes on. His wife begins to realise that Tony does not change when he puts on stockings or knickers etc (well, maybe he’s a little more cuddlesome), but he is still the same person she has always known, with all the same attributes and faults he has when dressed as a guy! She does however notice that he becomes aroused when dressed, and decides to take full advantage of that situation. Tony has no complaints, and they both begin to enjoy a new dimension to their sex life. She eventually accepts that Tony in lingerie is still the same husband she’s known for many years, and she no longer thinks she’s with another woman when he’s dressed. As they enjoy this activity, they get more adventurous, sometimes going out wearing similar underclothes under their usual outer clothing. It’s exciting to share a “guilty” secret, and they both know what will happen when they get back home! They even find it easier to talk about other aspects of their sex life that they would like to explore together. At last, his wife overcomes her reluctance to articulate her own desires in the bedroom, and finds Tony more than willing to satisfy her needs too. They both enjoy their life together.

Ending four

Following from ending three, Tony’s wife gets even more comfortable with the whole subject, and decides that she is ready to see him fully dressed. His first attempt is seen as a disaster, so she decides to help him achieve his dream of dressing as a female by helping with clothes selection, make-up etc. She even sees it as a challenge, and Tony is more than happy to be used as a blank canvas for his wife’s creative efforts. It’s only fair that he returns the compliment to his wife. Tony’s wife has dreams of her own of course, and now seems less inhibited in expressing them. Not surprisingly, Tony seems keen to help her achieve them, and they both seem to have a more positive attitude to helping one another to achieve ambitions which they had harboured for many years, but which had never previously come to the surface. And life is much better when both are fulfilled and there are no secrets between them.

Ending five

If you don’t like any of the four endings above, now please write your own preferred ending, and we’ll come to some agreement about where we go from here."

Well, what do you think? Is it a good plan, or is it doomed to failure? Please tell me what you think. And since you got this far, many thanks for taking the time and trouble to read it.

Tony

GG Vanya
08-30-2006, 08:34 PM
Toni,

I think it's an excellent idea. I would change only one aspect of it. Remove the word "normal" from all the places you used it, as it seems to imply that anything else is "abnormal".

Examples:

with all the same faults he has when normally dressed!

I would substitute "when dressed in male attire".

achieve his dream of dressing as a normal woman by helping with clothes selection

I would say "dressing as a female".

I would also remove the word "ignorance" in this phrase:

It may have been based on a degree of ignorance and lack of knowledge,

The word ignorance can be inflammatory, and lack of knowledge is less of an indictment.

This is only my perspective as a wife. Others may feel differently, in fact, Trudi feels differently. Hopefully she will respond.

CDsWifey GG
08-30-2006, 08:38 PM
I love the approach and think its a wonderful idea, but I dont know your wife. If my hubby tried something similar it would have went well, only you know if she will react well to it. Will she even be patient and willing enough to read thru it all? I wish you the best of luck, keep us posted on how it goes. I really do think you did a brilliant job of it.

kittypw GG
08-30-2006, 08:54 PM
Tony,
I think that this is an excellent idea and if I wasn't married already I would be butter in your hands. You couldn't keep me away from the nearest lingere store to get started on the romance and fullfilling your wildest dreams. But unfortunately that is me. After reading this I can't imagine not giving your need to crossdress a further look. It is so brilliant and I am in awe of your creativity. I would love to tell her what a great guy she really does have. Most of us could only hope for a considerate, sensitive, creative husband like you. Oh wait I'm married to one. He is not perfect but he is trying and that is what it is all about right? Be persistant and patient. I am sure that you will get your point across. Keep us posted.
I pray that your wife is inspired by your efforts Tony. :hugs:

kathy gg
08-30-2006, 09:20 PM
Vanya's corrections are spot-on.

Is your wife going to read all that you have laboured on and will she pick an ending? ... will she find it amusing and sweet? I have no clue....if she is a very open minded women with a quirky sense of humor and a knack for making the best of an unexpected situation...I would think this would be such a loving jesture to begin anew......

now I will remove my rose colored glasses.....

I read all your other posts and think this is one of those situations which no matter what ending *you* choose...you are not a winner. I am so sorry, but this lovely wife of yours has offically dug her heels {or sneakers} in and from all the other posts you have posted I think you are in a boat without a paddle.

Geez...that was depressing....

I would still give it to her, seriously what more do you have to lose?

Good luck and hugs as always....

Nike
08-30-2006, 09:21 PM
I like it a lot.

I personally would not use some of the verbage, simply to eliminate any and all possibility that it is read as a form of indictment.

participation = love = good girl
or
reluctance = REJECTED! = mean woman

Ending One, "ignorance and lack of knowledge" (ignorance IS a lack of knowledge, so in addition to being redundant, it comes off as an indictment to me)

"To try and satisfy her" ... her reply easily could be "you want me to fake liking it so you don't have to fake not doing it"?

"another of his needs not being satisfied" ... you may as well have added... "and whoa boy is THAT list long!" You really might rethink this line.


Ending Two, "she can either accept the whole of him, or reject him; partial acceptance is not possible." ... if you REALLY loved me, you wouldn't reject me?

"although this seems terribly restrictive to Tony, he realises that half a loaf is better than no loaf at all, and anyway, his fantasies can still roam free." ... she wonders... "just what ARE your fantasies?"

Ending Three, "Tony’s need to masturbate ebbs away" ... now really... c'mon.. you're a GUY!! sheesh... better lose this one. Blaming" her for your masturbation may not be received well.... who's fault was it when you were younger?

Ending Four is outstanding!

I'm not trying to be critical in a negative way, but rather trying to imagine what I might feel if I were to read this. One thing that these endings all have in common is sex. in One and Two, sex just isn't fun for you. (is it good for her? Don't answer, it's a rhetorical question) In Three and Four, sex is fun for you. Is it fun for her? (again, rhetorical) This is something strictly between you and your wife. Somewhere in here, I'd try to show something that SHE benefits from all of this. I'm betting that sex isn't going to be what closes the deal.

I LOVE the concept, as I have said. It might just take some tweaking which shows mutual benefit. (try to see that from HER perspective)

You did so well with it in Ending Two, "After all, she did marry him for what he was then, and that was the combination of male and female characteristics" How great is that!?! Protector and Provider, nurturing and caring". It is indeed a matter of "I'm still the same man you married, just in different clothing sometimes".

That's the line of thought I might expand a bit as I minimized the mention of unsatisfactory sex.

Nike
08-30-2006, 10:52 PM
sorry, didn't mean to kill the thread

Di
08-30-2006, 11:02 PM
I think it is a great idea,,,,as Kathi has said what do you have to lose,,,,,heres hoping that she will see what a considerate, sensitive, and sweet mate she has in you....keeping my fingers crossed and sending best wishes.

Lilith Moon
08-31-2006, 08:00 AM
Hiya Toni,

As you know, our situations are not dissimilar...mine is probably a bit better. Not much else to say, except to offer my support and to say go for it after making the small changes suggested.

Good luck :hugs: and please let us know how it goes.

swiss_susan
08-31-2006, 08:21 AM
While it sounds good, in that you give her options, I think this is not a good way to go about it.

You know you wife better than any of us, and have a better idea of how she will react. But given your previous descriptions of her attitude towards this issue, I dont get the feeling she will react well.

I would in your case, I think try for a more direct approach.

Just my thoughts,

Susan

KimberlyS
08-31-2006, 12:20 PM
Tony, it is strange that you would post this today. As I was reading it I was like "is this guy reading my mind".

My wife and I have been activly working on CDing and other issues now for about 3 years. And yes we seem to be at a similar impass.

While I am luckly in that my wife gives and makes me time to dress, she allows me to dress when ever the kids are not around and it can be around her. She has helpped me with clothes and makeup. And she has even went out with Kim once and we are looking at possibly doing it again over Halloween.

The thing that we are at an impass on in my opinion is that even though she says that she accepts that this is part of me, and she will help me; she still feels that CDing is wrong. And along with that she has similar society views of CDing that I also had less than 10 years ago.

Well after we talked last night, I was thinking, I wonder if it would help her to write down some specific things in the past 10 years or so that have helpped me to come to accept myself as a TG / intersexed person, and changed my views on cding and the TG spectrum in general. Some of these may include embryo development and hormones, DES, phsical birth defects are ok, but mental and gender differences from the "Norm" are not. CDing not in the Bible just other things that both cds and all other types of people do.

As I read your post, I was like this would be an excellent thing to begin and end what I was going to do. Like you said, as a refresher to what has already been talked about in the past.

I would be very interested in getting your complete writing if you would be willing to share it with me.

I wish you much luck, and hope that it does help you and your wife to find a balance for you both.

KimberlyS - CD
A guy in a skirt

Siobhan Marie
08-31-2006, 01:03 PM
Tony, I think its a great idea and wish you all the luck in the world. Please keep us updated.

huge :hugs: Anna x

Christina Nicole
08-31-2006, 06:37 PM
Leave the multiple-choice test off and let your wife write her own essay from her own feelings. Reading them from what I assume would be my wife's position, I'd think she'd thing the first one an overt threat and possibly even the second one also to be a threat. IE: "If I can't cross dress I'll be miserable and make you so miserable, too that this marriage is over."

Let her use her own words to express her feelings. Women, in general, have no problem with communicating their feelings. Don't pigeonhole her response.

Good luck.

Warm regards,
Christina Nicole

tekla west
08-31-2006, 07:48 PM
What would her fairy story look like? When you know that, you will have your answer.

Dragster
08-31-2006, 08:34 PM
A million thanks for your responses. I have tried to take them all on board and reworded the document accordingly. I then went back and changed my original post to the re-worded one for further comments on the re-write. I think it was too long to put in a before-and-after.

GG Vanya, I take your point. I've removed "normal" where CD could be seen as abnormal.
CDsWifey GG,and hiswife, Thanks for your good wishes. She'll read it, but I don't know if she will want to take it seriously. I got rid of the "fantasies" comment; it wasn't necessary.
kittypwGG, Unfortunately, I don't think she'll rush me off to the nearest lingerie stores! It will take a long time to make progress. I will keep you all posted.
Kathy GG, Can I borrow your rose tinted glasses? You say I've nothing to lose, but I have, 37 years of otherwise very happy marriage, so I'll be very careful.
Nike, A most useful input, I re-read what I'd written and it was rather aggressive, so I've used all your suggestions. Thanks for pointing this out, I think I let my emotions get the better of me. And you didn't kill the thread!
Di GG, AnnaH, Thanks for your good wishes
Lilith, Thanks your Welshness!
Swiss Susan, I can see what you mean, but I've tried the direct approach, and it didn't get a discussion going. I want to use this to kick-start a real negotiation, to let her know I'm serious, the subject is not going to go away, and that I really do want to find a compromise that gives us both something we want.
KimberleyS, If it helps you, you're welcome to use it. I'll PM you the whole text. It's rather long though. Good luck!
Christina Nicole, Thanks for pointing out my threatening tone. I hadn't intended it, and I've modified it accordingly. Unfortunately, my wife does have a problem expressing her feelings on anything to do with sex, hence why I'm trying to put a few thoughts on paper so we can debate the pros and cons of each, and try to get to the bottom of her opposition.
Telka West, I'd love to see/hear her fairy story, and make it come true for her, but I think it would include crossdressing being a subject that would never cross my mind ever again, and I don't know how to deliver that!

Thank you all for your comments, it is beginning to look like a joint effort now, and I hope you've improved my chance of success. I will choose the right moment to ask my wife to read it, and that may be several days away. I'll also let you know the result. Wish me luck, oh but you did!
Tony