My son put on polish and makeup today

[Samantha_In_Mt_GG]

I am asking for some advice here.
A little history first, My son is a young teen: My son has always had a fem side to him and was always interested in woman stuff. When he was little, like 5 and under he always wanted his nails painted like his big sisters, but his father would freak out. So needles to say my son was very discouraged from doing anything girly by his father. Well he moved out of his dads house and into mine this summer and with that he seems like he is relaxing and able to be himself for the first time. He does not know about my fiancee and how he likes to dress, so I am confident that he is not just mocking him or anything like that. So here is my question with some info as well. Tonight my son came downstairs and said that he was board and was so excited about the fact that he put on red nail polish on his toes as well as pink on his fingernails. I just looked at him and smiled, He then went and put on his sisters clothes and makeup with her help and he totally loved it. He is even thinking about wearing the toe polish to school but he convinced himself that it probably is not a good idea. So here is the big question. Is this something that boys do at this age? Or is this something that some of you or most of you find familar?
If this is something that he chooses to do then i will be the first to take him shopping. But i guess i want to know if i should talk to him in depth about how he feels about this or wait until he comes to me?

[prophet]

it seems normal to me..

[angelfire]

Sounds like what most of us probably would have liked to do at that age, but were probably too embarrassed to. I think there might be a strong chance that he is a crossdresser, or perhaps more.

I am not sure if I would suggest talking to him about it or not without him first approaching you. I guess it would depend if he is a CD, or perhaps just experimenting. But if he said he liked it, and was thrilled it show it off, it sounds to me like he is into it.

[Stephenie S]

Dear Samantha,

Don't "talk to him". Don't make a big deal out of it. Just ASK him why he is doing it. He is, I assume, 13 - 15? That's old enough to have some idea about what he wants to do. He is talking to his sister or she would not be helping him dress in her clothes. Let him know you don't care what he wears and you love him whatever he is wearing, and let it go at that. I think you can let him guide the issue. He is old enough to know what kind of a reaction he will get from his peers.

I am a firm believer in personal freedom. I think it matters not what clothes a person wears. If you can raise your son with this atitude you will be making the world a little less predjudiced place. Let him decide what he wants to wear and don't worry about it. It's just clothes. Try to be relaxed about it.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[Jennaie]

Whatever it is, except it for what it is. Don't judge him, just let him be who he is.

He will find himself if he is given the freedom to do so.

[eleyna]

I am asking for some advice here.
A little history first, My son is a young teen: My son has always had a fem side to him and was always interested in woman stuff. When he was little, like 5 and under he always wanted his nails painted like his big sisters, but his father would freak out. So needles to say my son was very discouraged from doing anything girly by his father. Well he moved out of his dads house and into mine this summer and with that he seems like he is relaxing and able to be himself for the first time. He does not know about my fiancee and how he likes to dress, so I am confident that he is not just mocking him or anything like that. So here is my question with some info as well. Tonight my son came downstairs and said that he was board and was so excited about the fact that he put on red nail polish on his toes as well as pink on his fingernails. I just looked at him and smiled, He then went and put on his sisters clothes and makeup with her help and he totally loved it. He is even thinking about wearing the toe polish to school but he convinced himself that it probably is not a good idea. So here is the big question. Is this something that boys do at this age? Or is this something that some of you or most of you find familar?
If this is something that he chooses to do then i will be the first to take him shopping. But i guess i want to know if i should talk to him in depth about how he feels about this or wait until he comes to me?

I would definitely encourage you to talk to him. Whichever path you are going to take, there will be regrets and agonies down the line. Make it a no-holds barred discussion. (decided to withdraw next comment: I think the other girls are right about keeping the Fiance out of it)

One thing that sounds a small alarm bell for me is the big sisters. My experience with boys who cded young is relatively limited, but I later found that a large factor for both of them had been "intervention" by their sisters which never sounded healthy to me. One is happily married in what he jokingly calls "a lesbian marriage with extra plumbing", one of them used to work for me, was in his mid twenties and was a post op TG. He was a mess, most of the time he dressed guy-style, although after a few days of funny looks at this stubbly guy with breasts he'd wear a ratty looking skirt. He hadn't bargained on all the paraphenalia of being a girl and looking passable with his altered gender.

So I would caution to make sure big sis isn't merely being supportive and not, erh, more "encouraging".

On that same note, it does seem that many of us potential dressers at around that point often have notions of either sexuality-related dressing or "submissive" feminization from looking up to females and their dressing etc as someway better. The family you've described sounds like one in which - and I am guessing here - your son may have aspired to be closer to the women in his family than the father figure.

If that is the case, then I'm not sure you should "take him shopping" or actively move him forward. Let it occur a little more naturally, e.g. let him wear what hes already wearing until, say, big sis gets annoyed about it, and then simply either buy *her* spares or maybe buy some for him.

Don't be too alarmed, the reason is rather subtle: Every action you do take you are later going to question. So as they say in flying, keep them smooth, small and simple. Arm him with all the advice, support and love you can, but don't put yourself in the place of thinking "did I do this to my son"?

[shawnaraylynn]

I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT i BELEIVE QUIET SUPPORT IS A TACTFUL METHOD. GENTLENESS IS QUITE PRODUCTIVE. ASKING OUT RIGHT QUESTIONS MIGHT REMIND HIM OF HIS FATHER. THIS IS WHAT HAPPEND TO ME AND IT SCARED THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS OUT OF ME. PLEASE HANDLE IT AS BEST YOU CAN,





:love:

sHAWNARAYLYNN

[JenniferMint]

My mom once straight-out asked me "do you want to cut off your penis and become a girl". o_O

I never told her much because I wasn't comfortable telling her.

[Sarah Rabbit]

Just getting a little side tracked here. My only concern would be if your fiancee was to say 'come out' and your son was to follow at a later time. Other people, especially his father (who appears to have a problem with this issue)will blame your fiancee. Perhaps you should take precautions against this. I know it is a little paranoid but it was the thing that stood out most in your post to me..

Sarah R. :bunny:

[deakane]

I would sit him down and have a talk with him but in a way that doesn't scare him. I think you need to find out where this is comming from. He also needs to understand about going to school. If he goes with something on that his friends notice it will spread like wild fire and could come back to haunt you and will haunt him for many many years. His sister needs to be talked to also. Find out what her roll in this really is and make sure she (and your son) follow the "what happens in this house stays in this house" rule.

If this is something your son like and wants to do is his own idea and not his way of acting out against his father the cool.

My big fear with this is that if a teacher or counsler at his school find out then they might make things hard for you and him.

[KarenSusan]

Samantha,

I commend you for standing by your son however this turns out.

[Calliope]

My only concern would be if your fiancee was to say 'come out' and your son was to follow at a later time. Other people, especially his father (who appears to have a problem with this issue)will blame your fiancee. Perhaps you should take precautions against this. I know it is a little paranoid but it was the thing that stood out most in your post to me..


Yup, we are talking about a minor here. Complicated situation with the fiancee. As usual, detailed info about whether your region (including the school) is liberal or conservative is wanting. Getting some professional support, a TG pro with legal savvy, wouldn't hurt. Then get a second opinion - to help round out your thinking. You've got a handful - and, frankly, this forum isn't up to pointing you and your son towards the smoothest path. Face it, everyone here is going to simply offer advice based primarily upon their own development.

Good luck.

[deakane]

Just one other thing. I was playing around with female clothes younger then that but I kept it hidden. I find it strange that he is so open with it and getting his sister into it as well.

[AmberTG]

This may be rather simplistic but, many transgender people felt from a very early age, 5 or younger, that their body was the wrong sex for their percieved gender. This may or may not be the case with your son, only he can tell you that. If it was me, I don't think I'd tell him about your fiancee at this time, that may make him more confused. If your x finds out about your fiancee, he could make both your lives miserable with a messy court battle for custody, using that against you. My advice is to just take it as it comes with him, just tell him that if he wants to talk to you about it, you would be happy to talk. I'd also talk to his sister privately and find out her involvement, in the least confrontational way possible, so you know if it was his idea or hers. that might tell you something about what's going on. Also, for his sake, try to keep it hidden from his friends, kids can be quite cruel about things like this.
Just my opinion.
Amber

[tekla west]

As someone who has raised two boys into honorable manhood - both in college now, or more precisely at the university - I can sure think of a lot worse things he could be into. At least it was pink and not black, did not come with piercings on the face, tattoos and a collection of Marylyn Manson records. I work with teenagers on a constant basis, your getting off easy.

[fionasboots]

Well, the way you describe things it does sound like your son would fall into the CD category but it's equally possibly that it's just the usual adolesent confusion/experimentation/rebellion/whatever.

I would agree with everyone who has said that you shouldn't make a big deal of this and let him decide what he wants to do and allow him to ask questions.

Maybe if he becomes a little secretive about what he is doing then you should maybe you should intervene at that point and make it clear that you support him and want him to feel that he can talk to you.

I would DEFINITELY agree with Sarah's comments that your fiancee needs to be extra careful and not give any hints about his CDing.

If your son's behaviour is what it seems then it sounds like he is very lucky to be living with you so that he will not feel uncomfortable about expressing and being himself and you and your fiancee (and your sons sister by the sound of it as well) can give him the support he needs.

[MarinaTwelve200]

Several things---First DONT confuse CD with GAY. Sure, some Gays CD, but CDing is generally a hetro activity. Gay is about being attracted to other MEN, not about one's clothing choice, Make sure the kid is clear on this too.

IF he is gay, then that can be delt with, but if he is not, than there is no need for him to think he has yet another "condition" to deal with and adjust to.

I've seen people who THOUGHT they were gay (usually out of belef of some stupid "myth"--like CD=Gay, for instance) who go through all sorts of needless "turmoil", even Jail to "prove they are men" and some actually adopt a "gay lifestyle"___ Until they FINALLY discover what "gay" really is--and it ain't them ("Pseudo homosexuality"---these are the types of "Gay"s that some groups claim to "CURE". who never were really gay to begin with)

The openess of your son about the clothing suggests either he thinks its a "cool joke" he must share or that he is proud of his acomplishment and is showing it off.(I can understand THAT one from a Halloween costume I did years ago) This dosen't seem like CD ro me. Lotsa boys this age might dress as girls, like for school skits, etc. and never think twice about it ---Its all a big joke, lotsa fun and thats it. The clothes do nothing for them.

A true CD, however. may get turned on and do it repeatedly--and may be very serious and secritive about it. If your son really IS CD you will know soon enough.

[Lawren]

I think that, in his own way, he has already "come out " to you and/or was seeking your approval. I would treat that as a breach of the subject and therefore feel free to ask him why he wanted to do it. I'm sure that, because you did not show resistance/rejection to it, he is thinking that you have no objection and he is now, quite probably, waiting for a reaction from you. He may be wondering why you simply smiled at him. That may appear to be a mixed signal to him. I really do think that he wants your approval and the only way for him to be sure of that is for you to tell him. I think he is ready and waiting to talk about it but is wants you to take the next step.

[kaitlin]

Hello Samantha, I have read your post and the mixed replies, I feel the best thing to do is let him open up to you and his sister. He will make his own path if given an open chance. By this I mean to let him feel secure with wearing what ever he wants, it may last a few days, weeks or become his life style. Who knows! As far as your CD boyfriend, there's alot of ways to open this slowly enough to make him feel a ease. One day while watching tv, get out the polish and do your toes, ask big sister to do hers, go to your boy friend and do his then ask your son if he wants his done. It will let him feel at ease, no pressure, and opens the idea that the boyfriend is cool with it too. Over all just let him be him or her if he wants! Kaitlin

[Karren H]

Sounds like he's already come to you in a way so I'd say talk to him about his feelings...and yes those are the feeling I had at that age..but didn't have anyone that I could go to to discuss them with! So he is so lucky to have you but just be careful that he doesn't end up getting hurt..school and friends can be brutal!!

Love Karren

[kathy gg]

I am not a cd, but married to one. Obviously your mind is open more than his dad's is, which is great in that there will be support if he ever decides he needs/wants it.

But what might consider doing....I would be clear in that you love him no matter what, that you are there if he ever wants to talk about ANYTHING, and just be the good Mom that you already sound like you are. When kids know they have a safe place to talk to without fear of being judged or criticized or being scolded they will use it. Maybe even writing him a letter and just saying those things, that you are always available and there is nothing too taboo or uncomfortable that you cannot discuss.

This is obviously one of those area's that as a partent you need to be supportive, yet neutral. he needs to be the one to engage YOu in converstation...and if he does..... I mean if he decides to start dressing as a girl at school or taking chances {like the polish} then he needs to be aware that although you support him, he could run into problems and this might be a bad idea in the long run if he *comes out* while in school. yes there are boys who do dress girly in high school, but unless he is at an alternative school, chances are he will catch some real hell. he just needs to know any thing he chooses to do will have an impact.

I know in Toronto there is a high school that has openly queer and trans youth attending. I think your larger urban area's do have options for those who cannot go to a regular school. BUT....if your profile is right you don't exactly live in the hotbed of social progression.

I believe if this is jsut a passing phase it will pass...but it could be something else and only time will tell. Our job as parents is to just let them know that our door and heart is open to talk when they are ready.


I am asking for some advice here.
A little history first, My son is a young teen: My son has always had a fem side to him and was always interested in woman stuff. When he was little, like 5 and under he always wanted his nails painted like his big sisters, but his father would freak out. So needles to say my son was very discouraged from doing anything girly by his father. Well he moved out of his dads house and into mine this summer and with that he seems like he is relaxing and able to be himself for the first time. He does not know about my fiancee and how he likes to dress, so I am confident that he is not just mocking him or anything like that. So here is my question with some info as well. Tonight my son came downstairs and said that he was board and was so excited about the fact that he put on red nail polish on his toes as well as pink on his fingernails. I just looked at him and smiled, He then went and put on his sisters clothes and makeup with her help and he totally loved it. He is even thinking about wearing the toe polish to school but he convinced himself that it probably is not a good idea. So here is the big question. Is this something that boys do at this age? Or is this something that some of you or most of you find familar?
If this is something that he chooses to do then i will be the first to take him shopping. But i guess i want to know if i should talk to him in depth about how he feels about this or wait until he comes to me?

[Samantha_In_Mt_GG]

I so appreciate all of you who replied to my post. It has given me some great insight and understanding. I am going to let things play out as they may, let him know that he can talk to me when he is ready. Thankyou so much everyone.

[Robin Leigh]

One day while watching tv, get out the polish and do your toes, ask big sister to do hers, go to your boy friend and do his then ask your son if he wants his done. It will let him feel at ease, no pressure, and opens the idea that the boyfriend is cool with it too.

:eek: I think you've been sniffing too much nail polish, Kaitlin. :(

Samantha's fiance is already (partially) out to some of their friends. See this thread from early last month: http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30160

It's a tricky situation, and I think it would be best for Samantha to talk to her son about this sooner rather than later.

My sisters always wanted to dress me up, but I never let them. I was too scared they'd see how much I loved it. What an idiot. :)

Robin

[Ranee Daze]

Let your love transcend any negative feelings you have about this developement. Find out about where crossdressing can lead, how some can manage it, how some clearly can't. How many marriages has it cost on this site alone? Once you have agood handle on this crazy passion, you can talk to him out of love and inform him.
A little tip however, at 14, my dressing was totally fetishistic.

[Robin Leigh]

Is this something that boys do at this age? Or is this something that some of you or most of you find familar?
If this is something that he chooses to do then i will be the first to take him shopping. But i guess i want to know if i should talk to him in depth about how he feels about this or wait until he comes to me?

I read recently about a "wave" of CD experimentation, with teenage girls dressing up boys, and not necessarily their boyfriends. So it may just be a cool thing to do this season. But generally, if a boy tries on makeup, he has some type of TG feelings & is investigating where those feelings take him. Either way, showing him that you're ok with it is a very good start.

Now you need to subtly determine if this is just a craze some of the kids are involved in, or if it has deeper implications for your son's gender identity. If he does have some TG feelings, he'll need all the help you can give him. Most of us grew up with 0% support for our trans natures. Of course, your son will still need to be cautious in our transphobic world, but with the help you can give him, he has the opportunity to go through his teen without guilt or shame.

I advise to talk with him ASAP, but don't try to rush things like getting him his own clothes or makeup. In fact, you'll probably need to slow him down quite a bit. Adolescent hormones + pink fog can be pretty wild! Remind him that what's ok at home may get him harrassed at school or on the street.

It's spooky that he's doing this just as you're getting ready to marry a CDer. Maybe he's psychic... or maybe he just identifies more with less macho men.

Are you totally sure your son has no clue about your fiance being a CDer? +?

Robin

[Robin Leigh]

if your profile is right you don't exactly live in the hotbed of social progression.
Some of those rural locales sound like a hotbed of trans activity, though. :)
And don't forget what Monty Python had to say about lumberjacks. :D
Speaking of Montana, I can't pass up this opportunity to quote an American genius.


Montana - Frank Zappa
I might be movin' to Montana soon
Just to raise me up a crop of
Dental Floss

Raisin' it up
Waxen it down
In a little white box
That I can sell uptown

By myself I wouldn't
Have no boss,
But I'd be raisin' my lonely
Dental Floss

Robin

[Kimberley]

Hi Samantha

I think that most people here have pretty much covered the bases. Be gentle, talk on his terms and if he needs his sister for support so be it. I have always been an advocate for youth support in this and you have a golden opportunity.

My larger concern would be the surrounding community and acceptance. Again his sister would be better informed as to acceptable boundaries at school. Beyond that it does become community and standarda of acceptability. At the top of the heap is lifestyle choices. Protect him at all costs from moving away from the path of morality. If he is a TS then this is probably a big temptation to gain acceptance. Make sure s/he gets it at home first and foremost then monitor the friends and acquaintances.

Youth are always at high risk and as parents we have to guide them to making the right choices. In this, present the reality of the situation(s) the consequences of her actions then hope s/he makes the right choice. With a teen that is about the best you can hope for. If s/he has the support and love at home (even if it is tough at times) it will be appreciated a lot more in the long run.

You might want to observe his reactions if you treat him as female. BIG clues there.

Good luck and keep us informed.

:hugs:
Kimberley

[Tessa Wire]

Sounds like he's already come to you in a way so I'd say talk to him about his feelings...and yes those are the feeling I had at that age..but didn't have anyone that I could go to to discuss them with! So he is so lucky to have you but just be careful that he doesn't end up getting hurt..school and friends can be brutal!!

Love Karren


I have to agree with Karren, as a young boy, I had no one that I could talk with about what I was going through. So as most of us did, I just stayed in the closet untill I moved out of the house. My father would have betten me to a pulp had he ever found out. I do belive that my mother knew, but she never said anything. So I guess what I am saying is perhaps you should try talking with him a bit about what he might be feeling. :hugs:

[DonnaT]

Hi Samantha,

Yes, I think you should talk with him. Knowing is a lot easier to cope with than speculation.

Here's a web site with some helpful hints.

http://www.dcchildrens.com/dcchildrens/about/subclinical/subneuroscience/subgender/guide.aspx