double standards???

[paulcduk]

hi,

Is this double standards?, fair?, unfair?

The following examples from my life seem to me like double standards.

Before i told my GG SO that i crossdress, she gave me a couple of pairs of womens Calvin Klein jeans size 14 that her best friend had grown out of, but would fit me. When I confessed my desire of crossdressing she took the jeans away, and gave them to a charity shop.

She has sometimes worn one of my T-shirts as a nightdress at night or first thing in the morning.

She has broad feet so she struggles to find womens boots to fit, so she buys herself mens boots. She wears mens boots 80% of the time and womens flat shoes the rest of the time, and never wears heels.

She has a couple of male coats (denim jacket, leather jacket, waterproof, fleece) that she wears a lot of the time.

On the other hand..................

I am never allowed to wear any womens clothes while she is around, not even underwear under my normal clothes.
She doesn't want me to wear any womens clothes while outside.
She doesn't want to ever know about my dressing.(the subject is taboo)

when I came out to her, she said "i am ok with you wearing, but never want to be involved with it, or know about it"

thanks

paul

[Marla S]

There are indeed some double standards, but poking on them won't help you.
1.) A lot will deny it. 2.) They are not the reason for rejecting CDing. 3.) Nobody said that the world is or has to be fair.
Make the best out of it and dress fem-casual. Almost nobody will realize that you crossdress. The fem-feeling comes from the mind and not so much from the clothes.

[JenGurl]

Tough situation there. But you gotta do whats makes you happy and what you feel is best for you. Being an adult I would never tolerate being told what I can and cannot wear. Just my opinion.

[fionasboots]

There are indeed some double standards, but poking on them won't help you.
1.) A lot will deny it. 2.) They are not the reason for rejecting CDing. 3.) Nobody said that the world is or has to be fair.
Make the best out of it and dress fem-casual. Almost nobody will realize that you crossdress. The fem-feeling comes from the mind and not so much from the clothes.

I'd agree with Marla here, the world does not exist to be fair for you, life is life and that's the end of it. Whinging about it won't change anything (sorry, I'm just making a point, not having a go at you).

I would also say that, if you are not happy with the boundaries that your SO has set then you need to talk about it. Ask her what she feels about the CDing, is it something that she is struggling to come to terms with?

Her reaction sounds similar to my wifes; "if you must CD then I don't want to know or have anything to do with it". Also your SO sounds like she is trying to discourage or eliminate obvious avenues for CDing (taking those jeans away) this also rings true with my situation and I think it is probably a perfectly natural reaction for an SO to have - they want their 'man' around not the CD/fem side.

Best advice I was given is: Listen, followed by: talk. See what you can work out so that you are both happy. Best to avoid a situation where problems just fester, get things out in the open.

[ And don't use "it's not fair" as an argument, it won't work, trust me ]

[susandrea]

Women who wear more masculine clothing aren't internally altering their gender, or trying to pass themselves off as men.

[Nikki Dee]

It might seem unfair but I don't think it's double standards at all...you gotta see it from her point of view love..girls have always worn jeans/trousers/pants..and mens shirts /short hair.etc...but it is NOT a gender issue..they aren't wearing those things for the same reason we are when we dress in femme clothes!.....they are not trying to be /feel/look like the opposite gender....unlike us.!!!...there is a difference.
Nikki.

[Sandra]

So because she wears manly clothes you think she should let you wear fem clothes, belive me it don't work like that, it takes time and a lot of give and take on both sides and then sometimes it just don't work. I suggest you ask her if you can have a chat with her, don't demand to chat tell her how you feel and be honest.

[Karren H]

Everything changes when she finds out.....like a shift in the time space continuium (spelling check please!!) lol Same with me.....plus the makeup disappeared and the bras are no longer hung on the back of the bathroom door!! I think she feels that it would be too tempting for me and she doesn't want me wearing her things!! Women!!

Love Karren

[Calliope]

I am never allowed to wear any womens clothes while she is around, not even underwear under my normal clothes.
She doesn't want me to wear any womens clothes while outside.
She doesn't want to ever know about my dressing.(the subject is taboo)


Sounds like it's time for a new girlfriend.


girls have always worn jeans/trousers/pants..and mens shirts /short hair.etc...but it is NOT a gender issue..

100 years ago in America, women who refused to wear dresses etc were usually locked up in 'sanitoriums.' I think it was a gender issue.

[tammie]

Hi Everyone: I think it very unfair, now however its probaly too late to get the women's jeans back. My experience was simular however with differant outcome.

I was married to a tall strong athletic woman who worked her way thru college as a lifeguard and semi pro softball. Once when we were going out, there were no clean chonies for me to wear, so she hands me a Bali skimpskamp and tells me to put it on. I had already been dressing as a teen, so I immediately got an erection. She noticed and said "we will do something about that later".

Now it is important to remember my X was already wearing my shirts (she is a mining engineer) & my boots jackets and sometimes my levis. Also I found out later her father (Xpro baseball player) was a CD so she was actually comfortable about it.

It was maybe 3 months later one Sat morning she announced she was going shopping and would be gone for 4 hrs. In the wastbasket in our bedroom were 2 really cute underwire lace bras. One black and one nude. I got them out and put on the nude one. it fit me so well I was immediately erect. I was preoccupied with that when I looked up and there she was standing there watching me. Her response was; "if U R going to wear a bra U R going to wear a garterbelt and stockings too".

So she could not only tolerate it she figured out how to get me started without her "making me" and bonus she now was in control so to speak, she being a very dominate women took full advantage. The rest as they say is history. Sadly we got divorced after several yrs, but remain friends.

My present SO knows, but doesn't want to see or know. I can only wear panties and then only if they R black or blue and no lace. Boring! I adore lace and nude ivory and pink even.

[Lindsay Marie]

My guess is she wears such items because she is more comfortable that way, same as you wearing such items for the same reason. Give it some time she might come around, and if not lose her. If she can wear whatever she wants then so can you, just give it time and don't push the envelope. Just try sneaking it in casually once in a while and see what happens.

[julie w]

what in life is fair anyway ? you need to look after you needs too, if she doesnt
approve and you want to stay with her dress when she is not around or join a cd club in you area , its no good fighting you cd ing it wont go away

[Tree GG]

Sure it's a double standard and it's not fair - as everyone has said, tough. Life ain't fair.

Personally, though, hang in there. I can't tell how long your SO has known of your CD desire, but it really takes time and open, loving conversation to get through many of the petty issues that pop up. They are "petty" now, but believe me, they initially seemed like the end of the world.

Hopefully in time she'll see that the "man" she loves is still there, and the excited, "childish" twinkle in his eyes when he's planning an outfit is priceless. Then again, she may not want to accept it. Sorry, no one said it was fair.

Tree

[eleyna]

The motivations behind your dressing and hers are very different, the first is romantic (and socially destigmatized) and the second is more or less compulsory. She probably doesn't see the first as CD (*shrug* t-shirts) and maybe the compulsory shoe thing makes it a little harder for her to understand your situation - to me that would explain her reaction with the jeans. She probably cops a bit of aggravation for wearing guys boots, and there you are willfully wearing girly things. That's a lot to take onboard.

Have you asked her why she would give you the jeans when she thought you wouldn't be OK with wearing them? If it wasn't a fish to see if you would wear them, maybe she was looking for some support or something from you - which may have made her react badly when instead you came out. (Did you get the "all about you" line? [slightly tounge in cheek])

[SherryLynn GG]

hi,


She has sometimes worn one of my T-shirts as a nightdress at night or first thing in the morning.

She has broad feet so she struggles to find womens boots to fit, so she buys herself mens boots. She wears mens boots 80% of the time and womens flat shoes the rest of the time, and never wears heels.

She has a couple of male coats (denim jacket, leather jacket, waterproof, fleece) that she wears a lot of the time.



Personally I dont think this is double standard at all...as others have said your wife isnt wearing these things because she wants to feel like or pass as a man...

CDing is a hard thing for lots of women to accept, but she shouldnt automatically accept it because she has big feet and cant wear womens boots....As you said she struggles to find womens boots which means she'd rather wear womens, but is forced to wear mens....So I DEFINATELY dont think its fair to assume that because of this she should accept you and not have anything to say on the subject

And her not wearing heels?? Not sure what that matters....ALOT of women dont wear heels, me being one of them....but that doesnt mean my husband should be able to wear whatever he wants whenever he wants....He is a CD, and I accept him, but not because i do or dont wear something that it seems alot of CDs think women should wear

[Marla S]

Women who wear more masculine clothing aren't internally altering their gender, or trying to pass themselves off as men.


It might seem unfair but I don't think it's double standards at all...you gotta see it from her point of view love..girls have always worn jeans/trousers/pants..and mens shirts /short hair.etc...but it is NOT a gender issue..they aren't wearing those things for the same reason we are when we dress in femme clothes!.....they are not trying to be /feel/look like the opposite gender....unlike us.!!!...there is a difference.
Nikki.


Personally I dont think this is double standard at all...as others have said your wife isnt wearing these things because she wants to feel like or pass as a man...


Well then. According to this statements I am not a CD despite 3/4 of my waredrobe consists of women's labled clothes and I wear them on a daily basis in and out (I've stated elsewhere that I am "cured" of crossdressing anyway). I assure you I am not a fetishist either (couldn't stand this long time arousal).
Remains the question:

What I am ? (The one that thought meanwhile to be a TS)

To which category does Butterfly Bill belong to ? (He doesn't even shave facial hair).

Your arguments seem odd to me, but I am eager to learn something.

[Holly O'Niell]

Quote:-( Before i told my GG SO that i crossdress, she gave me a couple of pairs of womens Calvin Klein jeans size 14 that her best friend had grown out of, but would fit me. When I confessed my desire of crossdressing she took the jeans away, and gave them to a charity shop).

Can someone explain this:-
- Your SO was perfectly okay with her knowing you would wear 'girls'
jeans.

- Your SO was perfectly okay with her knowing that her best friend knows
you would wear 'girls' jeans.

- Your SO is NOT okay with her knowing that you would 'LIKE TO'
wear 'girls' jeans.

So she is agreeable to you wearing them as long as you don't enjoy it???
To be honest, at this stage of your relationship, if she won't let you wear jeans then it is time for a re-think by both parties.
Sorry,
Holly.

[AmberTG]

I'm with Holly on that one, this is a major issue for her, and obviously for you also. If she doesn't want to be associated with that part of you, it's going to cause trouble in your relationship, her dislike and your resentment will drive a wedge between you two that will just keep getting worse. Many CDs lose a marrage because of issues that are byproducts of the dislike and resentment of the two people. You have to decide if she's important enough to you for you to let the resentment go. Neither one of you is likely to change on this issue. She probably wants to be with a "manly man" not a "girly man" and your CDing puts you in the "girly man" catagory in her eyes. That's probably why she doesn't want to know anything about it. It becomes your choice to make, not hers.
I agree that her wearing men's boots etc is a comfort and fit issue, not a CD issue, totally different perspective. Many women with wide feet struggle with that problem. Also, there's really not much available in the way of women's "rough duty" clothing, so she's forced to wear certain items of men's clothing because that's what's available.
Amber

[Yes I am]

hi,

Is this double standards?, fair?, unfair?

The following examples from my life seem to me like double standards.

Before i told my GG SO that i crossdress, she gave me a couple of pairs of womens Calvin Klein jeans size 14 that her best friend had grown out of, but would fit me. When I confessed my desire of crossdressing she took the jeans away, and gave them to a charity shop.

She has sometimes worn one of my T-shirts as a nightdress at night or first thing in the morning.

She has broad feet so she struggles to find womens boots to fit, so she buys herself mens boots. She wears mens boots 80% of the time and womens flat shoes the rest of the time, and never wears heels.

She has a couple of male coats (denim jacket, leather jacket, waterproof, fleece) that she wears a lot of the time.

On the other hand..................

I am never allowed to wear any womens clothes while she is around, not even underwear under my normal clothes.
She doesn't want me to wear any womens clothes while outside.
She doesn't want to ever know about my dressing.(the subject is taboo)

when I came out to her, she said "i am ok with you wearing, but never want to be involved with it, or know about it"

thanks

paul

Maybe it's a double standard, maybe it's not. But seriously, you need to dump this chick.

[eleyna]

Well then. According to this statements I am not a CD despite 3/4 of my waredrobe consists of women's labled clothes and I wear them on a daily basis in and out (I've stated elsewhere that I am "cured" of crossdressing anyway). I assure you I am not a fetishist either (couldn't stand this long time arousal).
Remains the question:


Read Nikki Dee's post again. And again.

We try to wear clothes for women, whereas largely when women wear our clothes, they are simply wearing menswear clothes.

There are virtually no types of clothing item made for men that aren't also part of the standard female wardrobe. The opposite is true. There are braziers for very large men, there are kilts, there are even girdles.

But largely when your average woman puts on menswear jeans, she is simply wearing clothing. That's different than when a woman dressed "en-masc", as our companions over in the next forum might tell you.

[eleyna]

Maybe it's a double standard, maybe it's not. But seriously, you need to dump this chick.

Hey, she gave him another chick's pants to wear. I think that's one worth working out the issues with ;-P

[Marla S]

We try to wear clothes for women, whereas largely when women wear our clothes, they are simply wearing menswear clothes.

There are virtually no types of clothing item made for men that aren't also part of the standard female wardrobe. The opposite is true. There are braziers for very large men, there are kilts, there are even girdles.

But largely when your average woman puts on menswear jeans, she is simply wearing clothing. That's different than when a woman dressed "en-masc", as our companions over in the next forum might tell you.


Ok, if I got this right I am rather a WLCW-HTAFB* than a CD.
If so, I can live with this label, though I doubt I can memorize it.

*Women's-Labeled-Clothes-Wearer---Having-Traits-Assigned-Feminine-Believer

[eleyna]

Ok, if I got this right I am rather a WLCW-HTAFB* than a CD.
If so, I can live with this label, though I doubt I can memorize it.

*Women's-Labeled-Clothes-Wearer---Having-Traits-Assigned-Feminine-Believer


Actually, I think I chose my words poorly "wear clothes for women" was mean't to read "wear clothes intended for women"; the omitted word makes for a rather large difference in interpretation.

I'm not, per se, trying to make a point about us as much as make the point that society generally accepts menswear as part of the female wardrobe - or atleast I think most men do, our FTM comrades might take issue with me there.

The grass will never make the night sky lighter, but the clouds often make the daylight duller. Is that a double standard or is it just a fact of life?

[Marla S]

Actually, I think I chose my words poorly "wear clothes for women" was mean't to read "wear clothes intended for women"; the omitted word makes for a rather large difference in interpretation.
Let me challenge this.
Thanks to my mom, who teached me, I am able to tailor or even design clothes from the scratch that are intended for me (I am a GM) or other GMs. I already did, but I am too lazy in general. These clothes (would) look quite feminine and would suit most women probably better than me.

What is that ? What does it make me ?

[Lisa Golightly]

A lack of style is somewhat different to active subversion...

[Tree GG]

As a GG I can wear a 3 pc suit, tie, wing-tips & pull my hair back severely, wear no make-up or jewelry & NOT be labelled perverted or freak. I may not be "dressed for success" or considered "pretty", but I can pretty much wear either male or fem clothing style with no serious social consequences. BTW, when I wear my husband's clothes it's usually the grundge or work factor (although I have worn some of his ties & dress shirts before). Convenience & comfort. Why I wear them is irrelevant to the fact that I may wear them & still be predominantly socially acceptable .

Not so male to female. There is real social taboo against that - hence double standard. The CDer who wears ladies' clothes is not so readily accepted.

I think Marla may be on to something. A gradual evolution to similar style. Not male or female - just comfort and style.

Tree

[eleyna]

Let me challenge this.
Thanks to my mom, who teached me, I am able to tailor or even design clothes from the scratch that are intended for me (I am a GM) or other GMs. I already did, but I am too lazy in general. These clothes (would) look quite feminine and would suit most women probably better than me.

What is that ? What does it make me ?

*Grin* Liberated and enviable :)

[eleyna]

*Grin* Liberated and enviable :)

Stupid Linux browser.

... Aber ich dachte nicht, daß Marla ein Kerlname war (I didn't think Marla was a guys name tho). Pardon my German :)

[Marla S]

Stupid Linux browser.

... Aber ich dachte nicht, daß Marla ein Kerlname war (I didn't think Marla was a guys name tho). Pardon my German :)

Actually your German is probably better then my Englisch.;)

Marla is derived from Marla Glen (http://www.stadtgeburtstag.karlsruhe.de/Presse/Pressematerial/Marla_Glen_3.jpg) a FtM jazz singer.

Confusing this gender thing, isn't it :D

EDIT: That's why I prefer the categories feminine and masculine over male and female meanwhile. That's more non-ambiguous and is more related to CDing, IMO.

[CaptLex]

Okay, call me a busybody, but I have to put my own :2c: here.

As I see it, the original poster (paging original poster, where are you?) has two interconnected issues here: (1) finding it unfair that the girlfriend limits crossdressing while she wears whatever she wants; and (2) being treated like a child by being told what to wear or not wear in the first place (my interpretation).

In my opinion, regardless of what's fair in our society (and I will concede that there isn't much that is fair), the bigger problem, seems to me, is deciding which is worse: not being able to wear what one wants but keeping the girlfriend, or wearing whatever one's heart desires and moving on from such a relationship, even if it means having no girlfriend (perish the thought, I know).

I know what I would do in this situation, but I won't presume to make such a decision for anyone else. It's up to each individual to decide the lesser of two (or more) evils in his or her life. To paraphrase Oprah: are you better off with or without her? If you can live with someone else telling you what to wear, that's fine, but then don't complain about double standards. If you can't live with it . . . then you know what you have to do.

[Julie Avery]

Let me challenge this.
Thanks to my mom, who teached me, I am able to tailor or even design clothes from the scratch that are intended for me (I am a GM) or other GMs. I already did, but I am too lazy in general. These clothes (would) look quite feminine and would suit most women probably better than me.

What is that ? What does it make me ?

A Kantian crossdresser. A Nietzchiean nylon lover. A German man who thinks clearly and realizes that no one has yet come up with a category which describes the way he experiences gender? I think that's the ticket.

Be well, Marla.

[nishababe]

It is double standards but thats the way that society views this issue .

My girlfriend always puts on my tee shirt,boxer shorts and anything else she fancies ummmmmmmmmm !!

When i ask her why she says ,that it makes her feel nice to wear something that I have worn and also that they are nice and comfortable .

If I wear something feminine eg girls jeans ,she barely tolerates it and does
not like it .

Thats womens rights ,when you think about it ,well almost anything goes !!

Girls can walk along cuddling and holding hands with their girlfriends .
Girls can dance with their mates and kiss one another ,all perfectly normal .

Lesbian affairs are viewed as a ''glamorous'' thing for movie stars ,pop singers and models etc .

Many married and single young women I know, now talk openly about how they would like to ''try out '' making love to other women as part of their personal experiences that is ''their right'' to try it out !!

Women and girls can wear anything they like ,men or womens clothes ,thats normal for a woman !!

Its even frowned upon for a man to show emotion and cry .

It will be a long time if ever before the social acceptance of men to be able to express their personal freedom as freely as women is ever tolerated .


Love Nishababe xx:rolleyes:

[eleyna]

A Kantian crossdresser. A Nietzchiean nylon lover. A German man who thinks clearly and realizes that no one has yet come up with a category which describes the way he experiences gender? I think that's the ticket.

Be well, Marla.

My thoughts, your wonderfully elucidated wording =)

[CaptLex]

It will be a long time if ever before the social acceptance of men to be able to express their personal freedom as freely as women is ever tolerated.
Yes, but standing up for one's rights and claiming one's personal freedom cannot begin until one decides not to let anyone else tell them what to wear - even loved ones.

[JenGurl]

Clothes are clothes no matter who wears them. I don't know who's idea it was to genderize clothing was but that was a massive mistake. I wore a bra because I was comfortable in them. I may have a form of gynecomastia. I can tell you bras are a lifesaver when active. Also it holds my breasts up so they don't hang and rub on my upper stomach.

[Lee51964]

they can wear anything they like and no one says anything about it


wish I could do that

[DAVIDA]

Lisa you are a devil!:devil:

[Jennifer Giovannetta]

A lot of double standards exist in our society. Especially with gender issues. It is irritating to me that the type of double standards exist. Although her intentions are not to dress as a person of the opposite gender, she is wearing the clothes because they fit better. Well, i like to wear womens clothes because I like the way they feel. And, I also like the way they look. I would to love to be able to wear womens shoes. Like your SO wears mens shoes. I would not even need to wear high heels, but a nice pair of leather flats would be nice. Of course this will not happen.
It is my belief that you HAVE to live your life to make yourself happy. Your signifcant other is an important person in your life. But so are you.
I think you should do what makes you happy. So wear the clothes you like.

[JenGurl]

If I did not have breast I would not be wearing a bra. Although not diagnosed, I feel I may have some sort of gynecomastia. So therefore bras are an essential to everyday life, especially when active.

[Melinda]

hi,

Is this double standards?, fair?, unfair?

The following examples from my life seem to me like double standards.

Before i told my GG SO that i crossdress, she gave me a couple of pairs of womens Calvin Klein jeans size 14 that her best friend had grown out of, but would fit me. When I confessed my desire of crossdressing she took the jeans away, and gave them to a charity shop.

She has sometimes worn one of my T-shirts as a nightdress at night or first thing in the morning.

She has broad feet so she struggles to find womens boots to fit, so she buys herself mens boots. She wears mens boots 80% of the time and womens flat shoes the rest of the time, and never wears heels.

She has a couple of male coats (denim jacket, leather jacket, waterproof, fleece) that she wears a lot of the time.

On the other hand..................

I am never allowed to wear any womens clothes while she is around, not even underwear under my normal clothes.
She doesn't want me to wear any womens clothes while outside.
She doesn't want to ever know about my dressing.(the subject is taboo)

when I came out to her, she said "i am ok with you wearing, but never want to be involved with it, or know about it"

thanks

paul



OK, you've gotta stop dating my wife! Ha ha ha ha. She's known about this for years and knows I'll never stop but just let her find a skirt or bra or something and it's tears and shouting and dirty looks and on and on and on... It never ceases to amaze me the lengths people will go to believe what they want to believe.

[GG Vanya]

Yanno, there *are* still men of the "knuckle dragging" sector who believe a woman's place is barefooted pregnant, and in the kitchen.

It's quite an eye opener for me to see the other side of this coin~Men complaining that women have all the rights.

I'm not ancient, but I remember when quite the opposite was true.

[JenGurl]

I think there are more important concerns to worry about other than your significant other worrying about what you wear. Everybody is different. I think we can all agree on that and the fact the world would be a dull place if everybody was the same. And I do not know why people are letting their spouses rule their very lives. I tend to think its a control thing. Perhaps they would feel embarrassed or something. Again if there were really love and understanding such things would not be an embarrassment. Take shaving for example. Some wives don't like their man to shave. I say tough, its my body and I'll do what I want. Shaving your legs and chest doesn't make you any less of a man. Some of us just like to have a clean feeling. I don't like that chest hair. Just seems some spouses get real NITPICKY on what their man does. If it feels good, just do it. You only live once. Nobody should have control of what one does with their bodies.

[CaptLex]

they can wear anything they like and no one says anything about it

wish I could do that
:Pfft:
You can do it if you don't care what anyone says. These freedoms were not handed to anyone - they were fought for and hard won. If you wait for someone to come to you and say, "It's okay, you can now wear whatever you want", you'll be waiting forever. You have to fight for the right, if you really want it.

[Satrana]

Yes this is a clear double standard, society-wide and also in this individual case. She had no problem giving him female jeans to wear until he confessed he was a CD and then overnight he became a "pervert" and the jeans were removed.

I do not think it is healthy that one partner dictates to another what they can or cannot wear, especially in this instance where the girlfriend's views changed so dramatically. I think this issue needs to be resolved one way or the other.

With regard to those claims that women are not crossdressing because they are not trying to be men, this is only true when comparing to CDs who dress for gender reasons. There are many CDs who do not dress for gender reasons, but do so as a matter of fashion preference i.e. because they want to. They do not dress to be women. But nobody says these men are not CDs. There is no dividing line between these types of CDs and GGs

You cannot have it both ways - if men who dress in feminine clothes just because it is their fashion preference are CDs then so are women who use masculine styled clothes. But if women are not crossdressing then neither are these men so many members in this forum should not be here. Somebody should inform them they are delusional that they are CDs.


Originally Posted by Marla S

Let me challenge this.
Thanks to my mom, who teached me, I am able to tailor or even design clothes from the scratch that are intended for me (I am a GM) or other GMs. I already did, but I am too lazy in general. These clothes (would) look quite feminine and would suit most women probably better than me.

What is that ? What does it make me ?

I went one better than you Marla and went to a local dressmaker and had dresses and skirts made-to-order to fit my masculine body. I did not realise that when I wore these skirts and dresses I was no longer crossdressing because I was no longer wearing women's clothing.:D

[Sandra]

And I do not know why people are letting their spouses rule their very lives

Maybe because they are trying to sort things out with their SO, obviously you don't know how hard it can be for an SO.



Again if there were really love and understanding such things would not be an embarrassment.

B**S***

You can really love someone more than anything, but still find it hard to understand, for most SOs it is not an embarrassment they just need time to get their head around it and if this means certain restrictions then that is something that has to be done, if both people are to work through it.

I can only hope your SO is very understanding and accepting, otherwise if she suggests restrictions then she aint going to last long.

[Satrana]

You can really love someone more than anything, but still find it hard to understand, for most SOs it is not an embarrassment they just need time to get their head around it and if this means certain restrictions then that is something that has to be done, if both people are to work through it.



I disagree Sandra. Embarrassment may not be the main problem facing GGs but for many it is an important element. My wife allows me to dress in the house but forbids me to go outside incase I am recognized. This will be a familar situation to members here. The stigmitization of crossdressing would be passed onto my wife if people got to know that her husband dressed in feminine clothing. This is my wife's biggest fear. What sort of woman would marry a crossdresser? What does that make her?

It is also embarrassment which prevents some GGs from turning to their best friends for support. Most GGs are very sensitive to social embarrassment - the "what will the neighbors think" syndrome. Personally I do not care what the neighbors think but I defer to my wife sensitivities.

[Blonde]

Hmm, it doesn't sound like a very good relationship to me.
Now don't get me wrong here, it is your choice, but you must know that you can't really change.
You can stop for a while (most CDers "purge" once in a while), but eventually something will set you off and you'll be wearing fem cloths again.
You can not deny your real self forever. No matter how hard you try.

Myself, I was "outed" by my wife one day( I won't get into that story here and now), and the thing she was worried about was "was I going to have a sex-change one day?"
When I assured her that I was not, she was still unsure of how to handle it.
I then found as much information about CD as I could and "taught" her about who a CD was (with the information available at that time).
I am not "gay" and I am not "bi" (I hate labels, but I need to use them here in this post).
I found that (in the majority) CD is a hetro-sexual who likes to wear clothing of the opposite sex, for what ever reason, TV is a homo-sexual who likes to dress in clothing of the opposite sex, and a TS is someone who feels that they are in the wrong sex body.
I know that can sound simplistic, but that has been my experiance from the information I had gathered.
After "teaching" my wife about CD, she has become quit a bit more accepting of it. Even to the point that we both went to an informal "interview" for acceptance into the Conbury Society.
Right now the only people who know about my CD is my wife and the person from CS who we met with. (I define know as met me face to face)

[Marla S]

I went one better than you Marla and went to a local dressmaker and had dresses and skirts made-to-order to fit my masculine body. I did not realise that when I wore these skirts and dresses I was no longer crossdressing because I was no longer wearing women's clothing.:D
:D Well, we are all a bit too used to be stigmatized (even feel comfortable with it in a way). Otherwise we wouldn't meet here, but on a fashion and style forum.:D

[ChristineRenee]

Well...I love my wife a lot...but I didn't have to ask her permission to be transgendered...or to be a CD either for that matter. It is a major part of who I am, and I have been this way almost my whole life...long before I ever met her. Plus...I told her about it while we were still dating because I did not want major problems to arise in our marriage later on if she suddenly "discovered" it. That said...just knowing upfront didn't make everything smooth sailing for either of us over the past 13 years that we have been together. My wife is still dealing with many aspects of the whole TG issue...and while she has come a long way in understanding the woman inside her man, she still prefers that neighbors, friends, and family members not know about Chrissie. I have deferred often to her wishes on that. There is not an overwhelming need for me to be "out" to others or to be Chrissie out in public totally...though more and more Chrissie is becoming integrated outwardly in my male appearance. Perhaps it was inevitable. I can say that it surely isn't to spite my wife in any way...and I really believe now that she understands that. All I am being is who I really am...a genetic male with a very strong female persona inside of me that cannot be denied, hidden, or wished away even if I wanted it to be...which I don't.

It isn't easy to be the way we are and it is just as difficult for our spouses or SO's to understand it. Relationships are tough enough as it is and an issue of this nature often makes it just that much more difficult. It takes a lot of communication, understanding, and support on both sides. Trying to control the other person ultimately produces a lot of resentment and resistance...at least this has been my experience anyway.

[ReginaK]

Everything changes when she finds out.....like a shift in the time space continuium (spelling check please!!) lol Same with me.....plus the makeup disappeared and the bras are no longer hung on the back of the bathroom door!! I think she feels that it would be too tempting for me and she doesn't want me wearing her things!! Women!!

Love Karren

It's continuum.


I take it then you have given her a lot of information, introduced her to support forums, gave her books to read, educated her etc.... ????

You'd be surprised how many people don't want to be educated. They usually plug their ears and scream like a little kid or they simple say they won't read anything simply because you're going do nothing but give them things that support your opinion.

As for the situation at hand, there are several ways to go about:

1. You can abide by her rules and stay so deep in the closet, you'll be pulling dustballs out of your hair.

2. You say "screw it" to her rules and do whatever you please and wait until she leaves.

3. Tell her to leave and not let the door knob hit her where the good lord split her.

4. Try to compromise.

For the sake of being civil, i'd try to compromise with her (option 4). After all, you do like her and would like for her to stick around. If that didn't work, go with option 2. Dress how you please and let her feel however she wants. If she sticks around and still gives you hell, go with option 3 and show her the door (or leave yourself if it's her place).

But don't do option 1. They've said life isn't fair so many times in this thread. People who do option one are the ones who keep life unfair for all of us. Until we stand up for ourselves and do what wish, life will continue to be unfair.

And that is why I am alone today, i'm an option 2 and 3 person. I'm alone, but at least a little bit of my life is fair. Unless you're on your deathbed, you can always find someone who loves ALL of you. Someone you don't have to compromise your soul with.


Is it a double standard? Sorta. To most women it's not simply because it's a standard in their favor. To the average guy it's not, because the average guy isn't a crossdresser. But I can understand why crossdressers see it as a double standard. All we can do is our best to beat that standard into the dust.

[Georgina]

The double standard exists. Men's clothes are for everyone and women's clothes are for women. Men's clothes are normally referred to as clothes but skirts and dresses are always ladies or womens. When a woman wears pants they are not referred to as men's pants just pants. If a man wears a skirt it's always called a womans skirt. Therein lies the problem. I believe we have no chance of being accepted in dresses until they become less associated with women. I delight in reading about women who won't wear dresses and hose because if all women were to wear pants it may become easier for men to wear dresses. Since I can't see this happening in the near future it may be a long time before men can wear what they wish. As I see it women only have a right to wear what they want if men have the same choices. Georgina.

[Ronda_B]

My wife and daughter will wear my large t-shirts as night gowns and think nothing of it, but catch me wearing a lounger in the same house is a no-no. My daughter doesn't know yet and I'm happy she doesn't. My wife thinks it's a turn on to see me dressed so that she can undress me but me undress he isn't. Why? I got caught wearing womens Nikes at the mall once and the clerk said in front of the whole store "nice womens shoes, sir" My responce was "no wonder they were so cheap on ebay, but I just love the color, and heck I always wear size 14 shoes", not.

Alice

[swiss_susan]

Lets face in this world there a standards, hundreds and thousands of them. At the end of the day you have to either live with them or challenge them.

But please for god's sake stop whining about them.

Yes as a man someone, including your wife spouse may not approve of your skirt, while in totally unfair fashion she gets to wear pants, :eek:

Live with it. I am sorry but the world works the way it work either deal with it or change it!

Susan

[Tree GG]

There seems to be alot of anger & resentment (at least bitterness) unearthed here. Good therapy.

There are many people who appear open minded, but if a situation invades their air space (I define as a 12" bubble around them) they will instantly become territorial & defensive. Could it be as simple as Paul coming so close to a dream becoming reality, and the SO realizing all her perceptions of their relationship will change, that they (hopefully) temporarily pull apart. If you're startled in the dark by a cute, fuzzy bunny you still recoil momentarily until you've identified what you're dealing with.

Careful labelling courtesy & respect as controlling. No one needs another's permission to wear certain clothing, but if you're in a committed relationship (sharing the same home) it is just common courtesy to inform them of changes and activities. You definitely should choose your own path, but at least be considerate of your SO's opinion and let them choose whether to join the journey or not. And from Paul's description, she's definitely not ready to join.

Tree

[CaptLex]

Lets face in this world there a standards, hundreds and thousands of them. At the end of the day you have to either live with them or challenge them.

Live with it. I am sorry but the world works the way it work either deal with it or change it!
:yt:

Yes, thank you. I'm tired of all the "Boo-hoo, wah, wah, oh poor me, life is unfair, she can wear what she wants and I can't" whining. :thumbsdn:

[JenGurl]

I think the bottom like here is that your spouse should not deny you of who you are. If cd'ing is part of who you are that should not be denied to you. In the long term I don't think its healthy to oppress your ideals, way of life just so your spouse won't get p*ssed. What kind of life would that be not being able to do what you want?

[Tina Dixon]

Wow this thread has really taken off hasn't it:heehee: , Don't know jeans and t-shirts to me are made for each gender just that our bodies are so different, now put a woman in a mans suit and tie and well, it just don't look right, kind of a man in a dress to me, but the issue here is the girl friend, seems like she don't want nothing to do with your dressing, so what are you going to do? Do you love her enough to give up your dressing? Or move on with life so that you can live with dressing, the choice is yours to make, you know where she stands can you live with that?

[JenGurl]

The question should also be does she love you enough to make your own choices in clothing? Why does it always have to be do I love my wife/gf not to dress?? What about does she love you enough not to mind how you dress??


Do you love her enough to give up your dressing? Or move on with life so that you can live with dressing, the choice is yours to make, you know where she stands can you live with that?

[Sandra]

What about does she love you enough not to mind how you dress??

:Angry3: You really have no idea. A GG loves her hubby/partner gives it her all, and then the bombshell is dropped she has to take it all in and try to understand can she accept it, what happens next. Some GGs love enough to work at it others love enough but just can't cope with it nothing wrong with that.

I guess in your perfect world all GGs should just let their SOs get on with it no matter what.

[Diane Paris]

Paul: Your SO's mandates don't sound like a basis for a relationship. I would not pass up the opportunity for meaningful communication and compromise, but if she does not want to deal with it, end it and move on.

Diane

[nishababe]

As normal the same old aggressive reply's from the same certain G.G women !!
You just dont understand our feelings do you ?

As well as being allowed to be a lot more free and easy in their emotions and reactions to their own sex , Women have the freedom to wear what they like .

As someone previous said in a very good quote ,

''Mens clothes belong to everyone ,but womens clothes only belong to women ''

Well that is brilliant logic ,I have never thought of that before .

Well for a start ,I like wearing stockings and tights for the feel ,comfort and warmth in the cold winter ,not to pass as a woman ,so is that allowed in the rules ?

I dont wear womens clothes to pass ,I just like the feel and look .
It makes me feel nice inside ,its a change ,something different .

We men have such boring styles and choice thats its nice to walk on the ''wild side'' and experience looking different and feeling nice sexy womens clothes and styles ,why not ,whats the problem ?

As I say us men are in such rigid straightjackets as to what we can and cant do ,so we all need some form of mental escapism .

Wouldnt it be wonderfull if the women with such rigid views were suddenly put in our situation ,eg put into mens bodys but enjoying their feminine side ,I think it would make them more understanding of c/d mens lives and the dilema of it all .

As the saying goes

'' You cannot understand where a person is coming from untill you have been in their own shoes ''

Love Nishababe :heehee:

[Calliope]

Probably I'm way off base but I do wonder:

Might it be a convenient way to keep oneself in the closet by having an unsupportive SO? Y'know - let her wishes 'just happen' to control the situation? Y'know - 'I gotta think about her, too [whew! that was close - off the hook again].'

[trannie T]

The old double standard issue surfaces again.
There are two rules about gender and clothing.

1. Men are expected to wear clothing designated for the male gender.
2. Women can wear damn near anything they want.

Those are the rules, there isn't much we can do about them.

[tekla west]

Of all the double standards in life this is not at the top of the list. I'm sure there are other double standards that you have taken advantage of at one time or another, I know I sure have, pushed them to the limit at times.

And yes, its all so easy to blame the little women for it all. Boo hoo. Seems to me that most of that begins with not being honest from the start. You dug that hole and put yourself in it, little bit late to complain that now that's its raining you're getting wet. Its not like any of this was some obscure arcane knowledge hidden away from view and only obtainable by some painful initiation right.

What a wicked web we weave
when first we practice to deceive
Spinning out a house of make-believe
We’re like a serpent on the ear of Eve

(Don Chaffer and Lori Chaffer by way of Sir Walter Scott, Marmion, Canto vi. Stanza 17)

Besides taboos are made to be broken, so shatter them. Its amazing what you can get away with if you try. Most of the bars in our life are things we put there, you can get rid of them whenever you want. If you can't live your life they way you want to, move. If the people around you are holding you back, get rid of them and find new ones. There are a few billion people in the world, find the next bunch. If the old ones are all that uptight, its not like you will miss them.

Don't like what one girl said. Find the next one. Its not like they are all that special, they are half of the population - maybe even a bit more. So find the next one. Don't like one persons advice, read the next bit till something fits and works for you. And never listen to anyone who is not where you are. If you are having trouble with your home wireing you don't talk with the guy who delivers the bottled water, you talk to the electrician.

The best service that these boards, and all such web sites can off is not what you see here, but what you don't. When people reach out and being to correspond with each other one on one. Or do Yahoo together. Or, best yet, find each other in real life, sit down and talk. People who are transgendered need to talk to others like them. The best advice will come from them. Its called support and its different from advice and its sure different than preaching or pontificating. Those things may well have a place. But they are no substitute for talking with people who really do, and truly do know what you are going through. Find them in real life.

Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.-- Mark Twain

"The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity. The fears are paper tigers. You can do anything you decide to do. You can act to change and control your life; and the procedure, the process is its own reward." -- Amelia Earhart

[nishababe]

You know its a funny thing when you talk about the double standards between men and women .

When I used to go to over thirty nights for disco's I used to laugh at all the double standards as well .

The sign used to be up '' No jeans allowed '' well you would ''never'' believe it
Hmmmmm guess what as the evening passed there would be lots of girls in ................. yes you guessed it all types of ........ JEANS !!

And so it would go on ,we had to wear suits and ties ,hard work in the hot summer and you were not allowed to take your jacket or tie off and suprise ,surprise the girls would be allowed to wear anything they liked ,next to nothing if it got tooooooooo hot !! again anything goes for the girls ,nothing said !!

In some places we had to bring our birth certificates to prove that we were old enough to get in ,eg depending on the night 25 ,30 etc but again surprise ,surprise Girls aged 15, 16 upwards no problem .

I remember in the mid 1980s there was a very hot summer in uk and the taxi drivers in Liverpool went on strike because they were not allowed to wear shorts in their cabs ,but the lady drivers could wear mini skirts !!
Well you may guess what happened next .... the taxi drivers said ok if its not allowed to wear shorts but ok to wear mini skirts thats what we will wear ,its too hot to wear heavy trousers ,so they did !!

The Council gave in and the men were allowed to wear shorts ,this is a true story !!

The same hot year the guys were also banned from wearing shorts in the my works canteen ,but again women could wear shorts,skirts whatever .

It all gets back to ..................DOUBLE STANDARDS !!

Nishababe :heehee: :heehee:

[Satrana]

Well for a start ,I like wearing stockings and tights for the feel ,comfort and warmth in the cold winter ,not to pass as a woman ,so is that allowed in the rules ?


No, when a man wears any feminine clothing for comfort or for fashion preference, he is still a crossdresser. Why? Because he is a man not a woman. Simple logic.:p

[Tamara Croft]

As this thread is going off topic (no actual advice for the thread starter) I'm closing it.