Does It Matter?

[JenGurl]

Does it really matter what ones girlfriend, wife, family, or friends think about you dressing? Shouldn't you continue to dress if it makes you happy and not the others? I mean life is too short ya know?

[Calliope]

Hell yes, I agree with that.

My SO approves when she's in a good mood, tries to paint me as a weirdo when she's not.

It's really down to how we're doing as a couple.

The CD thing is simply a manifestation.

We went round and round on my other trips years earlier.

I dress as I please. My kids are fine with it.

The rest of the world - whatever.

[carol ann]

Of course it matters- the moment you start thinking just about yourself and not the feelings of others you lose your grip on what is important in life. i promise you that if you go down the way you are suggesting you will obtain only brief satisfaction.

What is really important in life is love and relationships. Yes, by all means share your emotions and desires on being feminine with your spouse but then you you need to have the courage to say "but you are more important than all of that"

[JenGurl]

But why should it always be how your spouse (female) feels? What about how the cd'er feels? Surely if there is love and trust in the relationship she would still love you no matter what and she should also respect you. It should not be totally one way. Many women say I married a man, not a woman. To me this kind of attitude shows the lack of love and compassion for you. If the wife can't handle that and leaves you or threatens to leave, then to me there wasn't really any love to begin with.

[Karren H]

Yeah!! Tht sounds great in a miopic surealistic perfect world....but snap back to reality and you be really really happy dressing by your self....wife and kids left you...family disowned you...no friends anymore except us (we still love you btw :))....lost your job or demoted into oblivion....

But hey, its your life....what little of it is left!!! Hehehe

Love Karren

[Skyie]

Hey,

It does matter to me, i'm not one for the sod you all attitude. You'll get what you give right back at you. I'm very happy when my girlfriend is happy. If I took the attitude I don't care what you think, imagine how she would feel. Like maybe she means absolutley nothing to you at all.

Cheers,
Skyie

[JenGurl]

I just feel if your family don't support you and ends up leaving you then they must not have really loved you to begin with. Love is through the thick and thin. Maybe I am just out of touch here.

[Scotty]

Yes. :)

[Skyie]

Hey,

Well that would be bad on their part, just because they may take such an attitude doesn't mean you should lower yourself to their standard. I'm guessing by the nature of your post you maybe feeling some neglect from someone. I'm not the best person to comment on such a thing here, but I mainly believe time heals a lot.

Cheers,
Skyie

[JenGurl]

Actually there is no significant other in my life. I am just trying to understand the rationalization behind doing what your significant other dictates to you and neglecting to get to do what you want because of that.

[Karren H]

I just feel if your family don't support you and ends up leaving you then they must not have really loved you to begin with. Love is through the thick and thin. Maybe I am just out of touch here.

Again, in a perfect world......some things that were not devulged when you (we) got married are hard to get over when found out....."Ohhhhh btw I like to dress like a girl"....Ekkkkkkkkk lol

How would you feel if your girl friend, if you had one, wanted to dress like a guy? Not shave....add extra body parts thet she wasnt born with??

Love Karren

PS: And I do get what I want....just in moderation and when I can fit her in....Family first....karren's low on the food chain.....

[Lee51964]

you should be comfortable if they don't like it they don't have to partisapate just dress when they are not around

[Karren H]

you should be comfortable if they don't like it they don't have to partisapate just dress when they are not around

Bingo....there's always a work around.....compramise.....agreement....

Love Karren

[JenGurl]

I guess in a way its better not to be involved in any relationships if that means you will have total freedom of what you want to do when you want to do it.

[Karren H]

I guess in a way its better not to be involved in any relationships if that means you will have total freedom of what you want to do when you want to do it.

Or be totaly straight forward up front......no lies, no hiding anything....both know what their getting into for the long haul....

but then again in any relationship there will be bounds set....can't get around that...

Love Karren

[Calliope]

Yes, by all means share your emotions and desires on being feminine with your spouse but then you you need to have the courage to say "but you are more important than all of that"

Sounds like the rosy front door to jail. Concessions feed concessions. Lots of (potential) mates out there in the world, go find one who grooves on the same things as you. When things change, it's time for the kiss goodbye. No one gets a second life.


you should be comfortable if they don't like it they don't have to partisapate just dress when they are not around

It's safe in the closet. Lonely, too.

[GG Vanya]

Hell yes, I agree with that.

My SO approves when she's in a good mood, tries to paint me as a weirdo when she's not.

It's really down to how we're doing as a couple.

The CD thing is simply a manifestation.

We went round and round on my other trips years earlier.

I dress as I please. My kids are fine with it.

The rest of the world - whatever.


But...DayTripper,

I seem to recall that you also have made concessions regarding your family. I can't find the post, but if I remember correctly, it was about how you dressed while shopping, etc. with the family. Maybe it was that you came to a compromise about your hair vs. dress?

The point is, compromises are made because of LOVE. The old adage : " No man is an island" could never be more true than it is regarding CD's and those who love them.

The choices you make *do* affect your family. While I can understand frustrations when an SO simly can NOT accept any aspect of it, I can also understand that some women simply can't "see" their *man* in that light. Hell, 30 years ago, I would have been one of those totally unaccepting wives. Thankfully, age and life experiences tempered me.

[CaptLex]

I guess in a way its better not to be involved in any relationships if that means you will have total freedom of what you want to do when you want to do it.
Well, yeah, you can go it alone if you prefer. Or you can try to find one that is accepting of it. An understanding, accepting GG is not a mythological creature like Santa Claus. They really do exist - we have plenty of them right here on this site. :D

[Calliope]

But...DayTripper,

I seem to recall that you also have made concessions regarding your family. I can't find the post, but if I remember correctly, it was about how you dressed while shopping, etc. with the family. Maybe it was that you came to a compromise about your hair vs. dress?



You do remember right.

Although I do the double pigtails, makeup, earrings and fem tops at all times, when out shopping and stuff (as a family), I replace the skirts for pants, usually girl pants - for my 7-year-old daughter, at her request.

Regarding the missus, she's old enough to deal - or walk.

Dig the difference?

[Calliope]

Oh yeah, can certainly feel the love in your relationship....... NOT!!!! Deal or walk?? told her that lately to her face?? Going to say that to your daughter when she's old enough also?? Only one thing really springs to mind.... :loser:

Pretty aggressive tone there, sister. You sure you wanna be going to bat for my missus?

[Jenna1561]

Family first!

I love my wife and our children. When we married, I thought my crossdressing was in the past and didn't tell her - wish I had divulged it back then. Just came out to her this summer and it's still a great struggle for her.

I am who I am and Jenna is readily apparent at home, but I take her feelings into consideration and keep my dress toned down much of the time. She has never asked me to tone it down, nor to not dress in front of our children, but I do because I care about her. I love her and couldn't imagine a life without her by my side.

Were I single or if I didn't care about anyone but myself, I would be seriously considering transitioning, but since my life is about more than just me, I make my personal compromises.

Family First!


Jenna

[Satrana]

I just feel if your family don't support you and ends up leaving you then they must not have really loved you to begin with. Love is through the thick and thin. Maybe I am just out of touch here.

In a perfect world of unconditional love, then everything you have said is true. But everyone is innately selfish, so in reality you have to compromise your own selfish needs with the selfish needs of your SO and family. The key is reaching an acceptable balance in the compromise where one partner does not get their way by trampling over the needs of their partner.

[Lessa Lynn Young]

OK I may not make many friends this way, but I have been of the frame of mind for the last 20 years that you either like me or leave me, so here goes. Between this thread and the double standards thread I have a few things to say.

Women starting wearing mens style clothes regulary as a part of the war effort while working in the factories to support their guys who were fighting in that effort. After the war was over I am sure that many of the men came home and insisted that the ladies get back in their skirts and return to the kitchen, however there must have been nearly as many men who accepted the change for it to continue on its natural path towards the womens right to choose their clothing and express themselves freely in their choices. Also during this time frame I am sure that there were amny ladies fighting to keep the status quo and stay in the skirts and the kitchen. For that is how the world at that time was viewed. Now, where would you ladies be if all had just laid back and accepted what their SO's told them to do and stayed in the skirts and in the kitchen? This question is not meant to be a threat as it many times comes across as, it is merely something to ponder.


On to the next part which ties in heavily with the first part. Since there is little chance or likely hood of the majority of the women on the planet going off to war and therefore the men having to stay home and start wearing dresses to keep the feminine portion of the fashion industry alive. (Fat chance should it happen) How are we cd's/men supposed to educate those who are closest to us and do not want to be educated? Let alone the masses when even here we are being told to hide it and not let it be seen, AKA comprimise. True love can conquer all I do believe in that. Yet how can it conquer if we as a group who share similar beliefs cannot come up with constructive ways for it to happen? The above did not happen overnight and neither will this.


I have a few other things to say that were triggered by this thread that I think would be better viewed as an independent thread. So in closing I would like to say that I hope I haven't ruffled to many feathers, wrinkled to many skirts and most of all curled to much fur here. Though I definitely would like to read all opinions, for my reality cannot expand without learning and veiwing others reality's as well.

[ReginaK]

Unfortunately we live in a world where a lot of idiots will judge you, your friends, and your family because of what you wear. So if you do care about what others think about your dressing, you will be letting the idiots win. If you don't care, you'll be winning one battle in a much larger war, but at the cost of losing some friends and family.

But the upside is the longer you don't care and the more battles you win against people who wish to control you, the less likely you and future generations will lose friends and family.

[Brianna Lovely]

I agree with you.

Over the last few months, I've wondered, how come it always seems that the CD has to be the one to "compromise"?

"Behave yourself"
"Don't let anyone see you"
"I don't want to know about it"
"Stay in the closet"

Don't the gurls on this forum have feelings too?

I think it's bad enough to be "put down" by society in general, but worse, to be repressed by your SO or yourself.

[Marla S]

Does it really matter what ones girlfriend, wife, family, or friends think about you dressing? Shouldn't you continue to dress if it makes you happy and not the others? I mean life is too short ya know?
In principle it doesn't matter, and it is important to continue if it makes you happy, other wise you cripple yourself.
The problem is that this issue is overlayed by a diffuse fog of prejudices, misinterpretation, and, as it seems to turn out, even sexism or fear of sexism, etc.
This you have to take into account in order not to cause too much trouble for your loved ones, because you can't expect that they thought about it as intense as you do.
You can't even expect that they are willing to start to think about it.
In this sense it does matter what your loved ones think (or think not) about it.

Girlfriends or wifes might be a special case, because I think here it is fundamental that they respect you for what you are. Otherwise at least one of you has to suffer, which isn't a good basis for a relationship. Love doesn't cover everything, and if the power of love is weakened due to the every day life, the ugly face of non-respect might show up.

[KarenSusan]

I guess in a way its better not to be involved in any relationships if that means you will have total freedom of what you want to do when you want to do it.

Yeah, but that can sure get lonely sometimes.

[JenGurl]

Would one be considered a crossdresser if you wore clothes of the opposite sex just for the function? For example if a man had a form of gynecomastia and wore a bra for support. Would that be considered crossdressing if thats the only womens garment he wore? Should a man be able to wear a bra for support like the ladies w/o question?

[Robin Leigh]

I just feel if your family don't support you and ends up leaving you then they must not have really loved you to begin with. Love is through the thick and thin. Maybe I am just out of touch here.

Sorry, I don't think you're being very realistic, Jen. If a CDer doesn't tell their wife before they marry, then what? How do you think 10, 20 years of being lied to feels to a wife? Trust is ultimately more important in a relationship than clothing. Feelings of betrayal can easily change the way a wife feels about her husband. How can you love someone that has been putting up a facade for years and that you only thought you knew?

Of course, ideally, we tell our SOs as soon as is practical and avoid this problem. But many CDers get married when going through a denial phase, and are a bit ashamed to talk about their past activities. When such a CDer comes out to their wife (or is found out), they generally need to make compromises to help prevent their wife being harrassed by the "other woman".

For that matter, all CDers in relationships need to make some sort of compromise because of our dual nature, otherwise the power balance is skewed: it's two of us against one of them. :p

Robin

[Maggie Kay]

This issue is at the core of the CD'ers dilemma. Males are not "supposed" to dress in female clothes. Bras are to hold up and form the female breast into visually pleasing shapes for all to see. Women routinely dress in "attractive" ways and I am not referring to tarty styles either. We can all appreciate a beautiful outfit. Now show me one for a guy... Not gonna happen. What defines a good looking guy? A uniform? Cargo pants falling off the butt? All the fabulous short hair styles we have? Our hairy chests,backs and legs? Rippling muscles or athletic prowess? Our less acute sense of hygiene? There is no lifelong fashion system set up for guys. Women are the embodiment of sexuality. They are what we desire and they dress to enhance that desire. Makeup is worn to enhance attractiveness even for women "not on the make". It is used also as status between women. Happily married women still wear lipstick to enhance the lips...why? Because it is part of the package. They still are the embodiment of sexuality or at least sensuality. Women's office wear (supposedly not for sexual attraction ) still has shape revealing tailoring and details to let us know that there is a sensual women inside that suit. We aren't supposed to react to that but never to forget it either....
OK now consider the CD'er , he is driven to wear these articles. Does he want to be attractive to men? In most cases, No. Does he want to have breasts that other men stare at? Normally, not the purpose. They are his playthings. Does he want his SO to see him as competition? Again no as this is rarely ever mentioned as reasons for dressing up. Whatever brought the two together in most cases is not his CD apparel. This would not be a problem except for the fact that the CD'er can't stop. He wants the appearance of sexuality/sensuality too. He wants sensitivity and tenderness. He wants the same things as she has. Women don't see the clothes as being so special as we do. They are to them just clothes and many complain about having to wear them or wear makeup. We gladly don a bra and many can't wait to get rid of theirs. So unless there is a real bond of love between the pair and minds that can see past the superficial, there is real trouble brewing.

Kay

[Maggie Kay]

I have gynecomastia and need to wear a bra. Now just what kind of bra is acceptable? How can I find a male style bra. There are so many and they are fun to shop for. But what is acceptable? A minimiser sport bra of course. Flatten the chest and crush those girls... I don't and wear uplifting ones. Why because they feel great. I love them being there as breasts and want to celebrate them just like women do. I love lacy push up bras or padded ones or dozens of different ones. This is clearly forbidden for the medical condition that I have. " Why does he have to wear lacy ones?" they say...

--Kay

[tekla west]

Didn't some British guy once say:

This above all:
To thine own self be true,
for it must follow as dost the night the day,
that canst not then be false to any man.

I tell you what I know about marriage math. One (1) unhappy person makes for two (2) unhappy people in short order.

There is room for compromise to be sure, and no relationship works without it. However there is compromise on a little level - "OK honey, we will go to Aruba instead of Tahiti." Not a big deal, one tropical island is pretty much like another - with the exception of Jamaica. On a deeper level the compromise of "I will give up hiking the Grand Canyon to spend a two weeks at the Grand Hotel on Mackinac Island, Michigan" will not find grace, but rather, eventually create discord. The difference is too vast. One is doing, the other is a very specific - and expensive - way of not doing - or more to the point, paying others to do for you.

Point is, sometimes it not just about the destination, its about the reality of being there. For some like Karren, the compromise she has arrived at with her wife seems to suit them both. There are other factors (kids) which also influence it. What happens when the kids are out of the house (no longer a factor) and she no longer has endless business trips to play on might well turn out to be a different matter.

If a CDer does not tell his wife before they are married then what? Well, then you are lying to someone you love, not a good or solid basis for a long term relationship in which you must share the same space.

Living in any house where you are the repressed party, and where you feel that all the compromise is is one way street will not a happy place be. Though that unhappiness will begin with one, anyone who has ever been there knows it sure spreads to the other right quick.

What TD said sounded harsh, too much out in the open for many here to handle, but "deal or walk" is a righteous path. Since my GF is cool with the clothing choice (and since there is little to no social stigma attached to it here) and in fact it was how she met me I can do pretty much as I want in that regard. What has caused tension is the work I choose to do. "Why with all those degrees do you work for the union?" Answer: "Because I like that work. That work is part of what makes me who I am." I know she would much rather me go to work at 9, come home at 5 rather than working 16 hours a day four days in a row. That I would spend my time at a desk and water cooler and not up fifty to a hundred feet in the air walking on a truss. That I would be home sleeping in her arms at 3am, not loading trucks. That I would be working passing papers around, not working with guns. (Stagehand Union gun rule: The gun is always real. The gun is always loaded.) That I would be setting up doughnuts and coffee for a conference and not working with pyrotechnics in an indoor theatre for Guns N Roses or Green Day.

To say that "I'm giving this up for the relationship" is in the long run saying that "Heck, I'm going to be unhappy, now its going to be her turn." One unhappy person in a relationship never stays at just one. To say, "Hey, its for the kids" is an even bigger crock. Guess what? They are going to be unhappy too. Unhappy parents in a miserable relationship NEVER have happy well adjusted kids. Bet the farm on that one. Or just ask any shrink. That one fact is buying them a retirement house on the Kona coast.

[Paula Thomas]

I agree with Karen, Vanya and Tamara.

Of course, the world would be pretty bland if everyone thought and acted the same.

I view a relationship as one of compromise (you will constantly be making choices, and each choice may require compromise (e.g., "we had Chinese food last time, let's have Italian instead")) even if it appears to be a unanimous decision (you may not be aware that the other compromised their viewpoint just to please you).

However, there are some activities that one or the other may not tolerate (whether it be that their SO is gay, a CD, refuses to bathe, cannot keep a job (because "the boss is (always) a jerk know-nothing that just likes to pick on me"), beats you (physically or emotionally), refuses to go out, always insists on going out, makes a living in a criminal fashion, etc.).

Part of the key, is to find someone who shares most of your same values (i.e., those that are "core" or manditory), and if not, then move on.

Some of us did not recognize their CD until after marriage, and therefore did not "lie" about it.

Coming out to my wife was so hard emotionally because I did not know how she would react, and "us" was more important to me than being "out" (but I took a chance anyway).

All major decisions are chance-taking (new job, new SO, moving to another part of the country, etc.), and if the decision turns out badly, you can either make another decision (without guarantee that it will turn out any better) or try to compromise to make the outcome acceptable (even if not optimum).

Im my case, marriage is a multifaceted relationship, and CD is not a determining factor.

To some, it may be a determining factor.

It is their choice.

However, I believe that once married, you should try to reach an acceptable compromise rather than just saying "my way, or the highway".

However, if that is how you feel - fine, just do not expect me to agree with your decision.

[Tree GG]

18 months & counting since I became aware of my husband CDing - we were 3 months shy of our 25th wedding anniversary (highschool sweethearts). I'm trying hard to cope - I love this guy but he isn't who I thought he was. And you know what, he's coping as well. He's not who he thought he was, but he's experimenting, doing what he believes is right for him. Should he have "come out" sooner? Don't know, you'll have to ask him.

I didn't ask for this, I didn't know it would matter this much. Can I live with it - we'll see. But he's been too good a husband for too long for me to just walk away over a clothing choice (jury's still out over the shaving). And I've been too good a wife to be dismissed as a nuisance or interference to his happiness. We've both earned a certain amount of respect.

I think it is the epitome of disrespect to say I'm gonna do what the f*** I want regardless of how it affects you.

Tree

[Calliope]

However, there are some activities that one or the other may not tolerate (whether it be that their SO is gay, a CD, refuses to bathe, cannot keep a job (because "the boss is (always) a jerk know-nothing that just likes to pick on me"), beats you (physically or emotionally), refuses to go out, always insists on going out, makes a living in a criminal fashion, etc.).



So ... being gay or a CD - that's like someone who doesn't bathe? A spouse-beater? A criminal?

Pretty loaded choice of words there.

[Marla S]

Would one be considered a crossdresser if you wore clothes of the opposite sex just for the function? For example if a man had a form of gynecomastia and wore a bra for support. Would that be considered crossdressing if thats the only womens garment he wore? Should a man be able to wear a bra for support like the ladies w/o question?
Probably, as the reason for CDing doesn't really matter to get this label (in doubt you get told why you CD). What matters is the label on the clothes (this way and that way).
If you buy a special bra in a store for sanitary products, you certainly won't be considered a CD. But as soon as you look for something more pretty in the women's department and you even enjoy to wear this bra, you are definetly a CD (or worse).;)

[Paula Thomas]

DayTripper - A “loaded choice of words”, perhaps.

However, each type of behavior is tolerated by some SO’s and not tolerated by others.

JenGurl’s attitude was that it does not make any difference what others think “if it makes you happy and not the others[.] I mean life is too short ya know.”

I believe that there a lot of behaviors which can make a difference (and there are a number of members whose SO’s did not tolerate the CDing, some that “tolerate” it, and others that are willing participants).

Unless CDing is the sole determining facet in your life as to whether or not you tolerate another person, you need to weigh it against the other facets that brought (or bring) you together.

To JenGurl, it appears to be the sole facet.

You have shown that you are willing to compromise your CDing (to some extent) for the sake of the feelings of others.

I am willing to compromise my CDing because my marriage is a mutli-faceted relationship, and, fortunately, my wife appears to be one of those who will be a willing participant as long as I am willing to compromise with her “comfort-level" (and that, to me, is a reasonable compromise after 34 years of marriage).

[SherryLynn GG]

Does it really matter what ones girlfriend, wife, family, or friends think about you dressing? Shouldn't you continue to dress if it makes you happy and not the others? I mean life is too short ya know?


Im gonna have to go with YES it definately does matter. Especially if youre married to the person. Both people need to be happy. Basically if a wife isnt supportive and the husband says "well I dont care, im gonna do what i want no matter how much it hurts you" well i dont see that marriage lasting. Compromises have to be made for both people to be happy.

I mean if you only think about yourself and dont care if youre hurting other people then I guess if a husband wants to go out and cheat on his wife cause it makes him happy then itd be ok?? Or if he gets a thrill out of punching her in the face?? I know these are more harsh than CDing but hey if you only care about yourself then these could apply too right??

Or switch this around, Lets say you had a SO, you loved them will all your heart and soul...well one day they tell you they have a secret, something they do that you do not approve of...lets say for example they are a prostitute....can you honestly tell me that youd should say ok honey keep selling your body I love you so much I dont care what you do, as long as it makes you happy do what you want????

My point is this, No matter how much you love someone there are some things that people cant accept or approve of...now if the person knows before they fall in love that is a totally different story....But love cant hold everything together and love doesnt mean a wife should ignore her husband CDing if she doesnt approve. Saying a wife should approve just because she loves her husband is CRAZY!

Life is too short, youre right about that. But id much rather have someone in my life that loves me just as much as I love him and make compromises to make us both happy as live alone all my life because i dont care who i hurt.

[tekla west]

I'm not getting the comparison of being a CD with being a hooker. Perhaps I don't get out enough. I'm sure some CDs are hookers, but its not at all like they are having sex with someone else, that's a whole different matter. How much are they bringing home by the way, it could make a difference. After all, I know guys who date strippers, even though it violates a big guy rule.

Still, if one person in a relationship is unhappy, then they both are going to be unhappy in the long run, and more than likely, before that. 'Twas ever thus.

[Calliope]

Still, if one person in a relationship is unhappy, then they both are going to be unhappy in the long run, and more than likely, before that.

There it is.

[Karen xxx]

Jen ...do your own thihg but listen to the wise words of Carol ann.
Karen x

[Noel Chimes]

There's an old saying, " the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few". Some of us here can convert to the real world without a problem. But what about those of us who can't quite measure up. I mean there's always one give-a-way that exposes you.:nailbiting: Do we give up our brief moments in the dusk of the evening? :be: Do we stop our late night drives? :brokenheart: When it comes down to those who will be with you no matter what (family, friends from childhood, kids, and the guys down at the plant) YOU BET I DO. I can only speak for myself. And although I love myself in a dress and high heels, my family means just that much more. My wife loves me no matter what I wear. You can't ask for more than that. She even allows me to attend a monthly party!!! I'm like the military, "need to know basis".

[SherryLynn GG]

I'm not getting the comparison of being a CD with being a hooker. Perhaps I don't get out enough. I'm sure some CDs are hookers, but its not at all like they are having sex with someone else, that's a whole different matter. How much are they bringing home by the way, it could make a difference. After all, I know guys who date strippers, even though it violates a big guy rule.

Still, if one person in a relationship is unhappy, then they both are going to be unhappy in the long run, and more than likely, before that. 'Twas ever thus.


No where in my post did i say that being a CD is like being a hooker...I was simply making a point that if a person doesnt care about other people and think you should be able to do whatever you want then a man shouldnt have a problem with his wife or SO selling her body if it makes her happy...or doing anything as long as she's happy since we're only supposed to think of ourselves...that was my point

Regardless of the hobby or secret someone has, their SO shouldnt be "required" to accept it just because of love....thats all im saying...I was simply giving another example

[tekla west]

I think there is a huge difference between something that is - or at least can be - private, and that which involves an outside person - particularly when it involves sex. A better comparison would be to say that I found out that the 'facial massager' you ordered was being used on something other than your face.

A much better comparison might be found in some friends of mine who hunt. Their wives don't like it, not at all. They don't want the guns in their house - in each case the couple has children at home. So the guys store their guns elsewhere. They go hunting a few times a year, and know better than to bring it up over the dinner table. Kind of like Karren's situation.

[Holly]

Does it really matter what ones girlfriend, wife, family, or friends think about you dressing? Shouldn't you continue to dress if it makes you happy and not the others? I mean life is too short ya know?So are you are saying that your own happiness is the most important thing, no matter what the cost may be? If we lack compassion and sensitivity for those around us how does that make us any better than those who oppose us? For my money, I'd much rather win them over with love. I'm a married CDer and my wife and I will celebrate our 38th anniversary before the end of the year. We would have never made it this far if either one of us had insisted on having our own way at the others expense.

Jen, in the end, it all boils down to communication. It's up to us to communicate those values we hold true in our lives to those who are important to us, and at the same time insist they do the same to us. If you've chosen well and communicated effectively, if you have values you believe in and can support, your chances of success are great. But I would be remiss if I did not warn you that it is possible that as you grow and experience things, your own values may adjust and it is entirely possible that your sense of self fulfillment may shrink and your desire to to be responsive to the needs of those around you may become overpowering... and that's a good thing.

[Stephenie S]

Well, we seem to have beat this topic pretty much into the ground.

I find this problem hits close to home for me, though. I am a happily married, monogamous CDer with an accepting wife. I am on the horns of this exact dillema. What do I do??????

I love and respect my wife of many years. I would not be here without her. We are a partnership in the world. I would not dream of hurting her in any way.

What do I do?????

As a "mature" person (don't even think of asking), I know that I have a certain amount of time left in this world. If I don't do what is right for ME now I am going to find myself on my deathbed saying, "Oh s**t, why didn't I do it when I had the chance?". That's something I don't want to have happen. I have lived my whole life (until now) hiding, sneaking, surpressing, lying, purging, etc., etc.

I HAVE to do this NOW, for ME. Otherwise, when do I do it?

The dellema I feel is, of course, how do I do this with consideration for my loving wife? And make no mistake, this is a problem for her. She didn't marry a woman. She is not a lesbian. She wants her man. ME. The fact that she has been accepting of my behavior so far is a measure of her love for me, not of her glee at finding out she married a CDer.

So, what do I do????

I don't know. But I do know that the question of reconciling our selfish behavior with that of sacrificing ourselves for others is a real problem that does not lend itself to easy and glib answers.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[SherryLynn GG]

I think there is a huge difference between something that is - or at least can be - private, and that which involves an outside person - particularly when it involves sex. A better comparison would be to say that I found out that the 'facial massager' you ordered was being used on something other than your face.

A much better comparison might be found in some friends of mine who hunt. Their wives don't like it, not at all. They don't want the guns in their house - in each case the couple has children at home. So the guys store their guns elsewhere. They go hunting a few times a year, and know better than to bring it up over the dinner table. Kind of like Karren's situation.


And we all have our own opinions.....you might compare it to that, I can compare it to something different....regardless of what we compare it to, if a person lives their life doing whatever they want and dont care about hurting other people then in my opinion they arent gonna live a very happy life...who wants to be happy alone??

Thats my :2c: on this subject...Bottom line, if youre a caring loving person then what your SO/wife/family thinks of you should matter....I would never do anything that my husband absolutely disapproves of knowing that it would hurt him...But hey if youre happy being alone then its your life.

[GG Vanya]

Well, we seem to have beat this topic pretty much into the ground.

I find this problem hits close to home for me, though. I am a happily married, monogamous CDer with an accepting wife. I am on the horns of this exact dillema. What do I do??????

I love and respect my wife of many years. I would not be here without her. We are a partnership in the world. I would not dream of hurting her in any way.

What do I do?????

As a "mature" person (don't even think of asking), I know that I have a certain amount of time left in this world. If I don't do what is right for ME now I am going to find myself on my deathbed saying, "Oh s**t, why didn't I do it when I had the chance?". That's something I don't want to have happen. I have lived my whole life (until now) hiding, sneaking, surpressing, lying, purging, etc., etc.

I HAVE to do this NOW, for ME. Otherwise, when do I do it?

The dellema I feel is, of course, how do I do this with consideration for my loving wife? And make no mistake, this is a problem for her. She didn't marry a woman. She is not a lesbian. She wants her man. ME. The fact that she has been accepting of my behavior so far is a measure of her love for me, not of her glee at finding out she married a CDer.

So, what do I do????

I don't know. But I do know that the question of reconciling our selfish behavior with that of sacrificing ourselves for others is a real problem that does not lend itself to easy and glib answers.

Lovies,
Stephenie

Not knowing what your angst is about (but having a good idea) I can't tell you what you should do specifically. However, I would advise you to do whatever allows you to maintain your INTEGRITY.

[ReginaK]

Life is too short, youre right about that. But id much rather have someone in my life that loves me just as much as I love him and make compromises to make us both happy as live alone all my life because i dont care who i hurt.

It's even better to have someone in your life that loves all of you, not just the non-crossdressing parts of you.


To all those who sacrifice a portion of themselves for family and friends, martyrs are usually remembered for something. What will you be remembered for? Will it make your family and friends any more accepting of crossdressing? When you're allowed to wear a skirt, but not allowed to shave your legs, what has been accomplished?

[Satrana]

I didn't ask for this, I didn't know it would matter this much. Can I live with it - we'll see. But he's been too good a husband for too long for me to just walk away over a clothing choice (jury's still out over the shaving). And I've been too good a wife to be dismissed as a nuisance or interference to his happiness. We've both earned a certain amount of respect.


This is pretty much how I feel about this whole subject. If we can all agree that men are shallow and superficial by only judging women on their physical attraction and not look at the women beyond the skin-deep beauty, is it not also true that women are being shallow and superficial by being unable to see beyond the clothes and see the same man they have always known?

I don't think I will ever understand why a woman would ever consider giving up a good relationship with a good man over his clothing preferences. It does not matter that she does not "get" crossdressing, it does not matter that it does nothing for her, she does not have to be actively involved. For me, this is something which can be satisfactorily compromized if both parties are willing to work at it.

It is the unwillingness of women to even educate themselves and consider this topic with a clean slate by disregarding social intollerances that will forever puzzle me.:(

[GG Vanya]

but one important factor is being excluded here....

The sacrifices the SO makes in whatever level of acceptance she's able to arrive at.

[JenniferMint]

but one important factor is being excluded here....

The sacrifices the SO makes in whatever level of acceptance she's able to arrive at.

What sacrifices would a SO who adopts a "don't ask, don't tell" policy make? i.e. she knows her husband crossdresses, but he doesn't do it around her

[Satrana]

but one important factor is being excluded here....

The sacrifices the SO makes in whatever level of acceptance she's able to arrive at.

I would say that when partners are compromizing then both are acknowledging sacrifices are being made by each other. But there would be no harm in both partners actually verbalizing their own sacrifices so that everyone is fully aware of the issues and the emotions behind them.

[ReginaK]

but one important factor is being excluded here....

The sacrifices the SO makes in whatever level of acceptance she's able to arrive at.

I would like to know some of these sacrifices. For example, is a crossdresser shaves his legs and chest, what has the SO sacrificed by allowing him to do that?

[Stephenie S]

Dear Vanya,

My question, "so what do I do now?", was retorical. I am doing what I can do now, and I know what I am doing. I wasn't really asking for an answer as much as describing my dillema.

My "angst" is about my desire to be a woman.

If I were single I would be going headlong into to transition. Completely and as fast as my little legs could carry me. There is absolutely NO question in my mind about this.

But I'm not single. I have a loving wife. I am devoted to her. I do not want to destroy my relationship with her any more than I want to cut off my hand. So herein lies my dillema. I am dealing with it to the best of my ability.

I apreciate your concern.

Steph

[Busty B]

Of course it matters what your wife or girlfriend thinks. If you love this person then there love & support should be very important to you. As for other family & friends, there support & understanding would be nice & very welcome, but as long as you have the love & support of your partner i don't think it really matter so much.
This is all new to me but that's the way i see it.

Hugs
Busty B :bighug:

[Sweet Marie]

It really really matters how you incorporate your crossdressing into your life; especially if you are married. Your wife married a MAN and you have to be that man at the appropriate times or you have no respect for her.

I usually "dress" 4 to 5 days a week eight hours a day. When my wife comes home I am usually back in "man" mode although we do go to the movies or eat out sometimes with me as Marie.....but that is when she wants to.

I know I am extremely lucky to dress as much as I do so it give her the space she needs as she does me.


Marie



Some humans aren't human. Some human's are kind....John Prine

[Sheila]

Does it really matter what ones girlfriend, wife, family, or friends think about you dressing? Shouldn't you continue to dress if it makes you happy and not the others? I mean life is too short ya know?

I am torn between :Pullhair: at your remark and :swear:ing at you. Yes it does matter and it matters very much. My DH is out only to me and that only for a short time (we have been together over 2 years and I only discovered he was/is a cdr by accident 7 weeks ago). I would not dream of outing him to anybody else NOT because I am embarressed by him in any way but because I respect his right to reveal to others when or if he wants them to know (I can never see the day he will tell his mum). Just because he crossdresses doesn't mean that he is totally comfortable with it, all CDR's, SO's, AND THEIR FAMILY AND FRIENDS, have a right to their comfort zone. I love this guy so much, and like all people that love someone would not want to hurt them or see them hurt in any way.

Compromise you had better believe I/we do and crossdressing is just part of the compromise we make in our life together.

I don't know how old you are but I must admit in my late teens/early twenties I saw life in more black/white mode only as I have gained life experiance as well as years have I come to realise that this wonderful world of our is made up of so many different shades of colours, and black or white is very very rare.

I wish you well in your path but plese be gentle with yourself as well as others.
Jess(proud SO of CDR):D :D

[LauraKCD]

One key phrase - Life is more than just about me - Perfect

[kittypw GG]

I would like to know some of these sacrifices. For example, is a crossdresser shaves his legs and chest, what has the SO sacrificed by allowing him to do that?

Allow me to give you some examples of the possible comprimises.

You are at a family or friend's birthday party that involves swimming or going in the hot tub. You don't want the people at the party to know you shave or don't want to answer their questions about it. Your wife and your family comprimise by not being able to have fun with you in the pool. You miss out on some of the memories but setting yourself out. It does hurt when your dad or husband doesn't engage with the family especially when they don't know why.

Heterosexual women find men attractive not just because they are men but how they look. That includes all of the hair. I myself find a hairy chest very sexy. So what have I comprimised by allowing him to shave the hair that I love to run my fingers through while we are cuddeling in bed?

I could go on but I am sad that you could not think of some yourself.
Kitty

[margie remojeme]

well to those girls who are still single, (by that I mean unmarried) I would say if your s/o doesn't like what you do, you should probably end the relationship. If your crossdressing has been going on a long time, you probably won't be able to give it up. And it's really not realistic to expect most women to accept it, let alone embrace it. So what will happen, you will end up an unsatisfied crossdresser, with an unsatisfactory marriage.
For those girls who are married, especailly with children involved, you may have to compromise, and maybe go into the closset or give up dressing completely.
hugs
margie

[Calliope]

I don't think I will ever understand why a woman would ever consider giving up a good relationship with a good man over his clothing preferences.


Things could be worse, GGs.

Instead of crossdressing, imagine your guy wants to get in touch with his inner 'bohemian' - then proceeds to spend 30 hours a week locked in a room drinking and typing the 'great American novel.' No time for movies or dinners out - too bourgeois! - just gotta write all night.

Or maybe take up guitar. 'I'll be done in a minute, dammit! Hang on, I've almost got this tricky lick figured out!'

Let me assure you from personal experience, GGs, a crossdresser who wants your participation will offer more than a budding Hemingway. Wanna be an art widow? Sure, the neighbors will understand, small consolation.

[carol ann]

I must confess to some amazement at the selfishness and closed minds of those who say it doesn't matter.

If your SO originally accepted you as a normal male she was beleving she would get many of the emotional, pshycological and social factors that go with it. By coming out without her active support and understanding YOU (not her) are breaking down that understanding. It is she who will have to deal with the side issues that arise - the feelings of the wider family - what hers and your mutual friends will think - the problems that children will have to face with their friends as they grow up - the affects on your career (and don't believe their wont be any) and so subsequently on future income.

You have to accept that crossdressing is still a social taboo and is not acceptable to the vast majority of the population. To some girls having a crossdressing partner would be akin to having a partner who is in prison, is a drug addict or alcoholic or similary matter which would cause embarrassment or shame.

Love is all about giving - not taking. By saying 'it doesn't matter' is simply an indication that you don't really love your SO

[ReginaK]

Allow me to give you some examples of the possible comprimises.

You are at a family or friend's birthday party that involves swimming or going in the hot tub. You don't want the people at the party to know you shave or don't want to answer their questions about it. Your wife and your family comprimise by not being able to have fun with you in the pool. You miss out on some of the memories but setting yourself out. It does hurt when your dad or husband doesn't engage with the family especially when they don't know why.

In that case, that's the crossdresser's personal problem. If they have issues with people questioning them about shaving or appearing shaven, then it's in their best interest not to shave.



Heterosexual women find men attractive not just because they are men but how they look. That includes all of the hair. I myself find a hairy chest very sexy. So what have I comprimised by allowing him to shave the hair that I love to run my fingers through while we are cuddeling in bed?

I could go on but I am sad that you could not think of some yourself.
Kitty
Maybe it's a generational thing, but i've never known any women to be that attached to body hair. But I can understand that. I know some guys wig out if their girlfriend cuts their hair too short.

[julie w]

the same question keeps coming up so does the same answer .why do you
need to tell you family and friends ? the chances are they wont approve
I have told two people my ex wife and my gf but they both have never seen
me dressed which is ok with me and I go easy on the hair removal so it
keeps everbody happy , I still think its rare for a women that likes going
out with you crossdressed

[Satrana]

Heterosexual women find men attractive not just because they are men but how they look. That includes all of the hair. I myself find a hairy chest very sexy. So what have I comprimised by allowing him to shave the hair that I love to run my fingers through while we are cuddeling in bed?

I could go on but I am sad that you could not think of some yourself.
Kitty

I don't accept you can claim you have compromized anything when your partner decides to cut or shave his hair. Do you get your husband's permission everytime you decide on a new hairstyle? Does your husband need your permission if he wants to shave or grow a beard?

How about if a man wrote something like;
"Heterosexual men find thin women attractive. So what have I comprimised by allowing her to gain weight?" Does not sound very nice, does it? Everyone has a right over their own bodies and unless your partner does something to his/her body which is very socially embarrassing then what is the problem? Shaving chest hair certainly does not fall into this category.

Is not the fact that your partner is happier without the chest hair more important to you than you running your fingers through it?

[Sandra]

Tell you what why don't we do away with the GG from the human race, then you won't have to be bothered about how an SO feels or you having to put up with restrcitions or compromise. Some of you need to grow up and realise that life does not revolve just around you. :Angry3:

[SherryLynn GG]

I don't accept you can claim you have compromized anything when your partner decides to cut or shave his hair. Do you get your husband's permission everytime you decide on a new hairstyle? Does your husband need your permission if he wants to shave or grow a beard?

How about if a man wrote something like;
"Heterosexual men find thin women attractive. So what have I comprimised by allowing her to gain weight?" Does not sound very nice, does it? Everyone has a right over their own bodies and unless your partner does something to his/her body which is very socially embarrassing then what is the problem? Shaving chest hair certainly does not fall into this category.

Is not the fact that your partner is happier without the chest hair more important to you than you running your fingers through it?

I think shaving hair definately does fall into this category....Personally I prefer my hubby to have his goatee, but when he dresses he shaves it...I deal with it because I know it makes him happy.

Alot of these things deal with personal preference, in her post about chest hair she didnt say that all GG's like hairy chest, she simply said that was her preference...just as in your post you shouldnt have made the statement that men find thin women attractive and they are compromising if a woman gains weight...because there are some men out there that prefer their women with meat on their bones...BUT if that is your preference to have a thin woman and she gains weight then its your compromise if you just let it go without saying anything...Everyone has a different opinion of what is attractive and if the other doesnt like it then it is a compromise if you deal with it.

[kittypw GG]

unless your partner does something to his/her body which is very socially embarrassing then what is the problem? ?

Everyone has a different view on what is socially embarrassing. Maybe having no body hair is socially embarrassing to some. It is certainly not the norm. And it is still a comprimise. I would like to see you try to pretend your wife was hot with chest hair and full beard and army boots. How about walking around in public holding hands with her in full male attire while you are your true male self. No wig no makeup no disguise. It's a lot harder than you think. But you are a crossdresser so you will never know what that is like. Have you looked around and put together any statistics about how many women are accepting of crossdresser? Well let me tell you it takes a lot of comprimise to stay and make it work.

[Marla S]

Kitty sorry for jumping in.

Something that is so hard like it sounds from your post and needs that lot of compromises is NO basis for a relationship IMO. I don't mean that personally or as an offense, the less that I don't know how your husband dresses and how it looks like ( a lot would depend on it and it would depend on a lot other circumstances) ... just can't judge and I can't and don't want to judge your socially embarrassing level.

Of course
But you are a crossdresser so you will never know what that is like. That's absolutaly true.
But it is true too: The non CDing-folks will never know how it feels to be "embarassing" and a burden for the SO.

Nevertheless, moaning about this doesn't bring us any further. The contrary, it just diggs deeper trenches, which are covered only by a thin layer of misapprehend thoughtfulness.
Digging the cause of feeling embarrassed, by the CD and its SO, and positioning to it seems more promising.

[Sky]

Many posts were written on this (rather worn out) topic, but I found this one fascinating (in the wrong way):


Many women say I married a man, not a woman. To me this kind of attitude shows the lack of love and compassion for you.

To me it shows you live in the biggest bubble this side of Paris Hilton.

[kittypw GG]

Marla I don't mind you jumping in but I want to correct you that I was no where close to moaning about embarrasing situations. I wasn't even going to post to this thread until someone asked what comprimises are involved in a person shaving?:eek: Well, just in case anyone is not sure, everything we do affects others, either positive or negative. For someone to think that there is no comprimising involved with being either a so, friend,relative ,coworker or plan old ordinary human being makes me wonder how much time in reality does the person spend. Life is one big comprimise.

[Satrana]

I think shaving hair definately does fall into this category....Personally I prefer my hubby to have his goatee, but when he dresses he shaves it...I deal with it because I know it makes him happy.

Alot of these things deal with personal preference, in her post about chest hair she didnt say that all GG's like hairy chest, she simply said that was her preference...just as in your post you shouldnt have made the statement that men find thin women attractive and they are compromising if a woman gains weight...because there are some men out there that prefer their women with meat on their bones...BUT if that is your preference to have a thin woman and she gains weight then its your compromise if you just let it go without saying anything...Everyone has a different opinion of what is attractive and if the other doesnt like it then it is a compromise if you deal with it.

I agree everyone has their own preferences but the point I am making is far too much is made over an issue like shaving chest hair - I feel the reason for this excessive focus is because of the context of crossdressing ie. the GG knowing the man is doing this to feminize his figure.

Look at pictures of pin-up men and Hollywood stars - most do not have chest hair and it does not lessen their sex appeal. Chest hair does not define a man, but the lack of it does define a woman.

If I was still in the closet and decided to shave off body hair because of my swimming, do you think my wife would make a big deal of it, would my wife heatedly argue about it and instruct me that this was not permissable? Of course not, even if she was fond of body hair. But as soon as shaving hair is done by a CD then it becomes a big issue. Women either forbid it or they feel they have made a big concession because it was done to allow their SOs to feel more feminine.

Everyone alters their appearance all the time, and for women the changes in appearance are often extreme especially in hair style/coloring. I have never been with a girl who ever asked for my permission to change her hair style before she did it, nor would I expect her to. For others to say that people around you are constantly making compromizes everytime you alter your appearance is over-the-top.

As you pointed out yourself the important thing here is what makes your partner happy not your own selfish wants over something insignificant like chest hair which nobody else will even be aware of anyway. This should be an automatic given and should never register as a compromize. That's just my opinion.

[Marla S]

Marla I don't mind you jumping in but I want to correct you that I was no where close to moaning about embarrasing situations. I wasn't even going to post to this thread until someone asked what comprimises are involved in a person shaving?:eek: Well, just in case anyone is not sure, everything we do affects others, either positive or negative. For someone to think that there is no comprimising involved with being either a so, friend,relative ,coworker or plan old ordinary human being makes me wonder how much time in reality does the person spend. Life is one big comprimise.
I have nothing against compromises, and yes a CD has to make compromises too if it comes to outing to the public or involving the SO or family.
My point is, that I have the impression from a lot of posts here, that neither the CDs nor their SOs really know what they are compromising about and why they feel embarrassed, which would be the crucial and very first thing to become aware of. A lot seems superficial, kept together by "You get used to it (or not)" and love.
I am compromising concerning my dress code every day when I leave the house. In this respect I am even thankful not having a SO, support group, or subculture locations right know, because without this backups I am forced to learn to stand on my own feet in an every days life. As I am not blessed with a "tunneling view", can stand the "freak-status" only to a limited extend myself, and have no one to hide, of course this has effect on my dressing. But this is why I learned what is mandatory for me (maybe could explain it), where I am able to compromise and why, and where I had silly predjudices myself.
(Almost a regular life)

[SherryLynn GG]

I agree everyone has their own preferences but the point I am making is far too much is made over an issue like shaving chest hair - I feel the reason for this excessive focus is because of the context of crossdressing ie. the GG knowing the man is doing this to feminize his figure.

Look at pictures of pin-up men and Hollywood stars - most do not have chest hair and it does not lessen their sex appeal. Chest hair does not define a man, but the lack of it does define a woman.

If I was still in the closet and decided to shave off body hair because of my swimming, do you think my wife would make a big deal of it, would my wife heatedly argue about it and instruct me that this was not permissable? Of course not, even if she was fond of body hair. But as soon as shaving hair is done by a CD then it becomes a big issue. Women either forbid it or they feel they have made a big concession because it was done to allow their SOs to feel more feminine.

.

Honestly....I make a big deal out of my husband shaving his facial hair regardless if its for him to dress up or not....I prefer him with it, sometimes he shaves it off "just because" having nothing to do with being a CD..And I still ask questions and tell him id prefer him not to shave...So maybe your wife wouldnt make a big deal if you were shaving for swimming but im sure there are some women that might no matter what the reason is

[Tracy_Victoria]

Oh yeah, can certainly feel the love in your relationship....... NOT!!!! Deal or walk?? told her that lately to her face?? Going to say that to your daughter when she's old enough also?? Only one thing really springs to mind.... :loser:

my thoughts too.

Sounds like marriage vows no longer needed here, maybe they need rules of engagement instead!

Sorry you can't just say like it and lump it, because that will probably just drive someone away. Unless thats what you want! But to me, my partner is far more inportant than dressing, yes I love to CD, but I love my partner more, so there has to be a balance, I'm lucky we have a way to ensure there is balance, but I realise many don't! but I would presume the biggest fear of a GG, or the thing that anoys a SO the most is runaway dressing!

ie no balance, no respect, no thought, and no consideration! ie Me, Me, Me, and Me! and no US!

[Lisa Golightly]

Does it really matter what ones girlfriend, wife, family, or friends think about you dressing? Shouldn't you continue to dress if it makes you happy and not the others? I mean life is too short ya know?

We all die alone in the end.

[Tracy_Victoria]

We all die alone in the end.

only the unloved, die lonely!

I think you need to re-think what you said there. I hope when my time comes, my family will be there, and not for my estate, because I am what I am, a partner, a father, and hopefully a friend!

[Lisa Golightly]

only the unloved, die lonely!... I think you need to re-think what you said there.

:) That's not quite what I wrote... :)

[melisa6]

life is too short everyone should enjoy it in every aspect. One of thoes aspects for me hapens to be wearing panties and makeup...

[tekla west]

Deal or walk?? told her that lately to her face??
>>>> Well yes I have, and so did she. There are some things you can compromise on, others you can not. I did not bother my ex with a trifle as to what she wore, or how she did her hair, or the fact that she shaved her legs once a year. However when she brought home a couple of low-lifes and began snorting bad drugs, that I could not compromise on. I had kids in the house and she had to make a choice. Either-Or, NO Compromise on that at all. In any marriage, like any battle, you have to pick your fights, some are worth it, others are not.

Going to say that to your daughter when she's old enough also??
>>>>>> As a parent - that is someone who is raising human children (or was) and not pets that we call "our kids" but the real flesh and blood deal I will tell you that is EXACTLY what you say to your kids when they are old enough. I recall my dad saying, as I did to my kids "My house, my rules, if you don't like them, move." Otherwise you have some ever expanding blob of semi-literate nothingness running their parents ragged while they are at home at 25, doing nothing, and never having done anything. And that is not just one loser, its three, Loser Mom, Loser Dad, Loser Kid.

Much has been made about this, but in fact, its the only real choice. You can compromise on what color to paint the living room, you can not compromise on how you are living. If you compromise on what you believe, then you are no longer even you. Of the relationships I know it seems that the deal or walk ones are the strongest. The constant compromise is a death of a thousand cuts, the unending stream of little miseries that add up to one huge unhappiness. The deal or walk relationships are made up of two people who are independent, and strong in themselves, where compromise city is also known as codependent a lot of the time.

Though it does seem that those who doth speak about men not telling them what to wear or how to wear it, or not to let the knife and fork dig their grave are the first who begin to shriek about compromise when its going the other way. Freedom for me, but not for thee?

Wow, it also goes without saying that if you are honest up front, if you are out, then this never happens. It never gets to that point.

[Satrana]

Honestly....I make a big deal out of my husband shaving his facial hair regardless if its for him to dress up or not....I prefer him with it, sometimes he shaves it off "just because" having nothing to do with being a CD..And I still ask questions and tell him id prefer him not to shave...So maybe your wife wouldnt make a big deal if you were shaving for swimming but im sure there are some women that might no matter what the reason is

yes some women would still state their preference and there is nothing wrong with that but I am sure none would forbid it. Shaving body hair often becomes a proxy war between the man wanting to marginally feminize his body and SOs who are determined to stop any degree of feminization. The issue is no longer about the right of a person to alter his appearance(which is normally a given) but a device to control crossdressing.

This all boils down to people thinking that shaving body hair is "abnormal" because it is being done by a crossdresser for feminization rather than a "normal" man doing it for "normal" reasons. For me if you accept crossdressing then you would never view body hair any different than beard hair or even head hair. This issue should never be raised because ultimately it is trivial in nature - we are talking about shaving hair folks, not tattoos, piercings or other body modifications, and no great sacrifice is being made by anyone.

[Satrana]

The constant compromise is a death of a thousand cuts, the unending stream of little miseries that add up to one huge unhappiness.

The constant drawings of lines in the sand that can never be adhered to because they were unrealistic in the first place.......been there, done that and yes I agree it only prolongs the pain. At the end of the day you have to cut to the bottom line and ask your SO - do you love me enough and respect me enough to let me be who I am and be happy with your choice? Tough question but it has to be asked at some point, so better sooner than later.:2c:

[ReginaK]

Everyone has a different view on what is socially embarrassing. Maybe having no body hair is socially embarrassing to some. It is certainly not the norm. And it is still a comprimise. I would like to see you try to pretend your wife was hot with chest hair and full beard and army boots. How about walking around in public holding hands with her in full male attire while you are your true male self. No wig no makeup no disguise. It's a lot harder than you think. But you are a crossdresser so you will never know what that is like. Have you looked around and put together any statistics about how many women are accepting of crossdresser? Well let me tell you it takes a lot of comprimise to stay and make it work.

If I couldn't find my wife (if I had one) hot with chest hair, a beard, and army boots, i'd leave. I wouldn't dare try to change her or forbid her from doing those things. If there is one thing that can be learned from crossdressers, it's that trying to change people or trying to prohibit them from doing something is an excercise in futility. Compromise often does nothing but move the compromised activity back into the closet.

[cindyxdresser]

I agree it shouldnt matter what people say or think.I think you should do and wear what makes you happy and what you like having on

[Megan72]

Does it really matter what ones girlfriend, wife, family, or friends think about you dressing? Shouldn't you continue to dress if it makes you happy and not the others? I mean life is too short ya know?

I did not read all of the other posts yet in this thread, I wanted to answer unbiasedly to the question.

To do anything that impacts the lives of others, either emotionaly, physically, or otherwise should always be thoughtful and transparent. Our dressing may dictate the emotional response that our SO, families may have upon us and therefore we should only extend the courtesy to allow them the choice. By not telling or doing as we please only takes that choice away form them. While yes in one regard we should be allowed to be whome we are, that is only to the extent that it does not impead the lives of others. I do beleive that if my SO was not accepting that I would be without her, simply because shewould have left the relationship, but it was up to me to allow her the choice of staying or not by being upfront and honest. Thankfully she stayed and accepted my lifestyle.

To answer the question more susinctly, be aware that if you give them this choice you may not like the desicion, but it is only right to be up front and honest.