"Gossip" on Radio 1

[Kimberly]

I was listening to Radio 1 on the way into town, and they had a "gossip" segment, in which people sent in their random gossip... 2 of the 5 pieces I heard were about transgendered people - and it made me think.

The first: "A bussinessman booked into our hotel, and that was fine, but later he came down dressed, fully make-up, wig, accessories, completely as a woman and asked 'Where's the ladies?' Spent the whole night in the cocktail bar."

This sounds like 3 dozen stories I've read on here -- it's like clichéd crossdresser canon, or the beginning of a bad erotic-fiction piece.

The second: "I recently found out my mate was turning from Barry to Carrie."

Again, made me think... I reckon a lot of girls here, go out and think they've "passed" with flying colours - thinking that everyone else has sussed them as a woman.

Reality check, girls! They might not make a fuss, but most people probably read you and just don't care. So why is passing such an issue on here? People can read you, and not say anything right away - but you could be someone's gossiping material for the next few days!

Just think about that when you go out... Me? When I go out (if and when! hah!) the plan is to go out as Transgendered. On one level, being feminine - but not trying to con everyone into believing I'm a woman. You can quote me on that one! (Certain issues arrise - I know you're gonna say... but people should at least show each other respect when out and about.)

And I now have no doubt at all that this thread will be read by about 20 people and then die the death - like every other on here with common sense in it.

love and hugs anyway... xx

[JeanneF]

I've been listening to Radio 1 ever since I got Sirius, and it seems like they discuss transgendered people quite a lot, and pretty much as a matter of course...very different from American radio.

Anyway, I agree on the going out Transgendered. If you pass, great, but if you don't pass 100% but still put on a good facade, you can have a great time, especially in the straight bars. Hell, part of the fun of going out to the straight bars is to make a scene and have fun...I hope people are talking about me the next day. :)

[Lady Jayne]

I tend to agree with you as a GM the best I can hope for is for people to consider me Transgenderd, if I could pass as post op I think most people would treat me as female and that would make me feel wonderfull but I guess will still dream of passing completley :happy:

[Kimberly]

it seems like they discuss transgendered people quite a lot, and pretty much as a matter of course...
At least the subject is getting some publicity, I suppose. It just seems all very, "lets laugh at the trannies" of them. :straightface:

I nearly text into the show, but it was at the end of Edith's show - so I didn't bother.

[Calliope]

So why is passing such an issue on here? People can read you, and not say anything right away - but you could be someone's gossiping material for the next few days!


I think tales of passing is a bit of 'I look better than you' - pretty catty and kinda sad.

You know when you've passed when:

1. Hooters hires you for the bikini shift.

2. [Fill in].

3. [Etc.]


Hell, part of the fun of going out to the straight bars is to make a scene and have fun...I hope people are talking about me the next day. :)

I go with that. When I don't pass (most of the time) and it doesn't appear I'm trying to jive anyone, the guys can move on to the women and the girls can relax.

[Kimberley]

When I go out (if and when! hah!) the plan is to go out as Transgendered. On one level, being feminine - but not trying to con everyone into believing I'm a woman. You can quote me on that one! (Certain issues arrise - I know you're gonna say... but people should at least show each other respect when out and about.)


************
You get full marks from me on that one. Why try to pass unless you can look like Sherlyn so go transgendered but not in your face. People may or more likely not clock you and you have the comfort of knowing and being.

I do it this way all the time.

Of course if you want to attract attention then a 12" skirt, 4" heels, a DD cup and crop top will definitely do it. Most ppl wont even look at your face.... LOL.

:hugs:
Kimberley

[Kimberley]

You know you've passed when:

Rita, the lingerie manager of the boutique offers you a job.

An old man gets up and offers you his seat on the park bench.....

:D
Kimberley

[tekla west]

Oh come on! Just be yourself tonight. What else is there? What else can there be? Some will like it, some not, Sometimes its good, other times, as the French say:
"Vous devriez poursuivre votre tailleur en justice."

Can't win them all, so why not just win for yourself.

[Melissa A.]

I really, realy think that the overwhelming majority of us who have been out are able to because they don't care about passing. Looking good? sure. Being treated nicely? Well, that would be nice, but not guaranteed, at all. I would never be stupid eough to care about passing when out interacting with people. I'd be a nervous wreck. Of course, I don't have the courage yet to go into possibley hostile situations, like the Mall or the corner gin mill. But I think those who do probably don't care about passing, either. Midnight walks alone or stealth drives? Yeah, passing is more important there, if only for safety's sake. And that may be where many cd's delude themselves.

Hugs,

Melissa:happy:

[Karren H]

I hear passing is highly over rated anyway!! And getting read must be in? Hehe.


Just means that I don't have to work as hard on my makeup next time out.....


And hey....if you don't know that they know then in your own mind you passed!! Right?


Maybe we can get cards made up...where if you've ever passed once then you can get it punched...that way all you have to do is show your card the next time out...save a lot of time and agravation... Hehe


Love Karren

[Kimberly]

Maybe we can get cards made up...where if you've ever passed once then you can get it punched...that way all you have to do is show your card the next time out...save a lot of time and agravation... Hehe
You read me? Fine, fantastic -- take a number and wait in line! :heehee:

[Sally24]

And I now have no doubt at all that this thread will be read by about 20 people and then die the death - like every other on here with common sense in it.

Pretty cynical for someone just starting out! I think a derisive attitude is at least as bad as someone deluding themselves about passing/not passing. Let's agree that there are alot of different types of crossdressing represented here. Some don't feel or behave female, just feminine. For others it's all about the other side of the male/female coin. Considering that most of us haven't seen the others, it's pretty hard to judge how good/bad they look in person.

I find constructive criticism a much better vehicle for understanding and advancement. Don't expect me to be you or the other way round. We are individuals.

Sally

[Kimberly]

Pretty cynical for someone just starting out!
*Looks at her own post count*

What's that, I see? 1,500+



:)

[GG Vanya]

<chuckle> yup, methinks someone made an embarassing faux pas. :D

Sally,

Kimberly (*not* Kimberley) has been here a year longer than you have.:heehee:

But, I do understand Kimberly's remark. It seems many of the more serious threads get passed over in the rush to read and post to the "I passed today" or the "what color panties do you prefer" threads.

[gulliver]

It just seems all very, "lets laugh at the trannies" of them.

- i've also heard some of the R1 bits and got the same feeling.
From my perspective, i don't try to pass 'cos i shave my head and if i wore a wig i wouldn't be me, if you see what i mean ! I still wear big heels and short(ish) skirts, and i'm growing bumps where blokes shouldn't have bumps :D (with no intention of snipping anything else !).
Without going into a long phsycological/philosophical discussion, i sometimes think of myself as a lesbian girl in a male body !
But i'm actually a person living my own individual life while trying to ignore the labels, classifications and judgements that this sick society tries to use to persecute, control and subjugate the human spirit.

[JoAnnDallas]

When I get those rare chances to get all dressed up, that is wig, makeup, and such, if I can do my thing and no one takes notice or does and they don't make anything out of it, then I am satisfied. When I go out, I try to blend in, wear what other GG's are wearing around me. Most of the time, no one will care or notice you. On the other hand, if you go into say WalMart wearing a mini, 4-5" heels, over the top on makeup, you WILL get noticed.
I bet a lot of us do get read, but I think that enough of the public understand what a transsexual is and may think that is what we are and leaves us alone. In fact I bet that when we spot another CDer in public, I bet the first thought that comes to your mind is she a Pre-Op or a CDer.

[Julie.]

I was listening to Radio 1 [...]

Now 'Thats' what I call *really weird* ... :D

MrS

[KateLongman27]

<chuckle> yup, methinks someone made an embarassing faux pas. :D

Sally,

Kimberly (*not* Kimberley) has been here a year longer than you have.:heehee:

But, I do understand Kimberly's remark. It seems many of the more serious threads get passed over in the rush to read and post to the "I passed today" or the "what color panties do you prefer" threads.

I'm going to throw a spanner in the works, Okay Kimberly may have been on this forum for a year however I just want to know how long Sally24 has actually been a cross dresser. As I could easily pump up a post count to 1500 + counts but it still wouldn't represent Experience within the community.

Therefore joining dates and post counts are irrelevant c.f. age, experience etc.

I could say that Kimberly has more experience than Melissa A. (Post count 846 c.f. Kimberly's 1500+) However Melissa A. joined August 2004 where as Kimberly joined March 2005.

So who has the greater experience?

Hence It really bugs me when I see people comment oh I got 1500+ posts and you got...? Smart Allec comments.

They do people no good and it may lead to divisions in a time we need unity and no in fights.

[Kimberly]

Sally highlighted my comment about this forum... not about my experiences crossdressing. I've been here longer than she has so technically know this forum a little better than she does.

In the past, most have my threads have died pretty weak deaths, owing to the fact that...

many of the more serious threads get passed over in the rush to read and post to the "I passed today" or the "what color panties do you prefer" threads.

[Lisa Golightly]

You should listen to Radio 4.

[Kimberly]

Radio 2 :)

[Lisa Golightly]

Bbc 7 ;)

[GG Vanya]

I'm going to throw a spanner in the works, Okay Kimberly may have been on this forum for a year however I just want to know how long Sally24 has actually been a cross dresser. As I could easily pump up a post count to 1500 + counts but it still wouldn't represent Experience within the community.

Therefore joining dates and post counts are irrelevant c.f. age, experience etc.

I could say that Kimberly has more experience than Melissa A. (Post count 846 c.f. Kimberly's 1500+) However Melissa A. joined August 2004 where as Kimberly joined March 2005.

So who has the greater experience?

Hence It really bugs me when I see people comment oh I got 1500+ posts and you got...? Smart Allec comments.

They do people no good and it may lead to divisions in a time we need unity and no in fights.

tsk tsk, Why make a mountain from a mole hill? I was simply having a chuckle at Sally's obvious mistake (she checked "Kimberley's profile instead of Kimberly's. It was *just* as I said, a comical faux pas. Why make it more than that?

I didn't see Kimberly's response as anything "smart allec". She was simply defending her position. Given the fact that Kimberly's been a member here for over a year, I'd dare say she's no longer wet behind the ears regarding crossdressing. I *do* agree that post numbers in no way reflect one's experience in crossdressing. Over the years, I've seen posers who never picked up a piece of womens' clothing, much less wore them, who had post numbers in the thousands. Add to that fact, Trudi {aka Nike} has precious few posts here, but has been dressing for 35 years that can be "documented". She is a twinless twin, and wore her sister's pajamas when they were just toddlers. (Her twin was killed when they were thirteen.)

No one else got their knickers knotted over it, so why did you? <shrug>

[KateLongman27]

*Looks at her own post count*

What's that, I see? 1,500+



:)

This is what I call a smart allec comment. Bugs Me.

[Rachel Morley]

So why is passing such an issue on here?....When I go out (if and when! hah!) the plan is to go out as Transgendered. On one level, being feminine - but not trying to con everyone into believing I'm a woman. You can quote me on that one!
Hi Kimberly,

What a coincidence, this is exactly the conversation (or something really close to it) that I had with Marla last night. I was saying wouldn't it be great if I could just go out in public with everyone knowing I'm transgendered and yet they'd be totally Ok with it? In other words, I look "woman-like" enough for people to treat me as a woman, but they do know that "I'm one of those (harmless) trans people" and that really I'm a genetic male underneath it all. :happy:

I suppose the only problem with this is that some people (around here anyway) don't think like that. I think that they don't nonchalantly consider a femininely dressed guy presenting as a woman as harmless - I think they're not sure what to think, and so they (potentially) fear the unknown, which is what can lead to conflict.

The other thing with me is that if I could be sure that people's attitudes to me would be benign, I'd have no problem in not passing and knowing that everyone knows that I'm transgendered. But the problem is that I don't particularly like to be the center of attention and I don't like conflict. I'm always afraid that one day I'm going to have a bad incident. So what the hell am I doing going out in public dressed as a woman you might ask?....well that's another story we won't go into here. :D

So anyway, I do totally agree with you that passing shouldn't be the holy grail of crossdressing (or whatever it is) and that we, as cders, should just be happy that we know we don't pass or better still, that people know we are transgendered and they don't care. There are plenty of people on this site that are like that, but IMHO, I think they are the more experienced, out of the closet, more self accepting, cder. Basically they're in a league of their own.....and they're my role models. :happy: I hope to get there one day.

[Kimberly]

This is what I call a smart allec comment. Bugs Me.
Yeah it was. I was just being flippant, that's all. Didn't realise I had to be so damn careful in here. :rolleyes:


Thanks, Angel, for focusing on the issue I'm trying to raise, and not my experience. xx

[Rachel Morley]

Thanks, Angel, for focusing on the issue I'm trying to raise, and not my experience. xx
I thought it was a good point, well raised. :happy:

[KateW]

I think in our quest for equal fashion freedom, passing shouldn't be such a big deal, as that is really just affirming that female clothing styles are only meant for females. Perhaps we need more of a "I'm a man in a dress and proud of it" attitude to change things? After all, women can walk around freely in trousers without attaching a moustache.

Just my two cents (or British pence!)...

Take care,
Kate xxx

[angelfire]

You can walk around freely in what you like, you just don't for fear of what might be said to you. There isn't a law saying you can't wear womens clothes now is there???

I keep hearing 'women can wear what they like'... well boo hoo, get over it, wear what you like and quit all the whinging already :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Its more an issue of women can wear anything they like, and no one raises a fuss or says anything negative. "Oh look, a girl in pants. Thats the 1000th I've seen today."

As opposed to "Oh look, a man in a dress. Jeez, thats the first I've seen in 3 months! Wow, thats pretty wierd, what a freak."

The public obviously doesn't care what women wear, but for some reason when a man wears something feminine, they make a fuss. Whether they say it to your face or not is another issue. However, the point isn't that we CAN'T wear the clothes. The point is that wearing these clothes changes people's views of us.

A woman who wears dresses for 15 years, then wears a pair of pants will be seen by society as "oh, another girl wearing pants." As where a crossdresser may be viewed, even by friends, as a freak who no one wants to have anthing to do with.

[KateW]

I keep hearing 'women can wear what they like'... well boo hoo, get over it, wear what you like and quit all the whinging already :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I think the point of my post was misunderstood there. I wasn't trying to whinge about women's clothing rights, as I think it's great that they can wear what they want. I was actually questioning why many of us have a stigma about the need to "pass", that prevents us from dressing in public.

Kate xxx

[CDsWifey GG]

Its more an issue of women can wear anything they like, and no one raises a fuss or says anything negative. "Oh look, a girl in pants. Thats the 1000th I've seen today."

As opposed to "Oh look, a man in a dress. Jeez, thats the first I've seen in 3 months! Wow, thats pretty wierd, what a freak."

The public obviously doesn't care what women wear, but for some reason when a man wears something feminine, they make a fuss. Whether they say it to your face or not is another issue. However, the point isn't that we CAN'T wear the clothes. The point is that wearing these clothes changes people's views of us.

A woman who wears dresses for 15 years, then wears a pair of pants will be seen by society as "oh, another girl wearing pants." As where a crossdresser may be viewed, even by friends, as a freak who no one wants to have anthing to do with.

Actually I catch hell for what I wear or don't wear all the time, knowing ppl who think "ladies should dress like ladies" one even harps that it is a sin and is appalled I dare step thru the church doors in pants. My own mother cannot pass up the opportunity to tell me I should wear make up more everyday, and she considers herself queen of the womens lib, :heehee: We all get judged for what we wear, how we talk, even who we know the point is whether or not you let other ppls prejudice and narrow views dictate how you live your life. Im not saying all things are equal, I know it is different for a guy en femme but thats because enough guys havent taken the risks to put it in the public's face long enough to enjoy the same freedoms women are now for the most part able to enjoy.

[Kimberly]

The problem with proposing MtF crossdressers wear what they damn well please out and about is what it might eventually lead to.

Abandonment of friends, verbal and physical abuse, and death threats. Only under the most extreme circumstances, like CDsWifey GG raised, that women get abuse for what they wear (if traditionally male clothes).

I am certainly not in the whinging camp! I hate that kind of thing. Women have, I think, earned the right beautifully to wear trousers or skirts and get out of the oppressive situation they found themselves in in the 50s - doing just what Tamara said, wearing what they please.

Looking back at my post - they more than likely received a lot of stigma on not wearing skirts or dresses: verbal and physical abuse. But womens liberation was a movement. We're not.

That's the difference.

[angelfire]

Looking back at my post - they more than likely received a lot of stigma on not wearing skirts or dresses: verbal and physical abuse. But womens liberation was a movement. We're not.

That's the difference.

Correction: Not a movement YET.

Viva la revolution!

[gulliver]

You can walk around freely in what you like, you just don't for fear of what might be said to you. There isn't a law saying you can't wear womens clothes now is there???

I keep hearing 'women can wear what they like'... well boo hoo, get over it, wear what you like and quit all the whinging already :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Sorry, but it's not as easy as that. The long term effects of abuse (verbal, physical or the fear of) can include anxiety, panic attacks, depression and even suicide.

[Kimberly]

Correction: Not a movement YET.

Viva la revolution!
I am with you, sister. :)

[CDsWifey GG]

And what about the long-term effects of repression? Of trying to hide oneself away? Of being ashamed of who you are? Everyone on this forum understands that depression, anxiety, and even suicide, are problems already dealt with in the community. I am not claiming we should all start marching in parades or yelling we're here get used to it, but the fact is until more ppl choose to join the "movement" and come out of their own closets, there will be no real change, and all the "its just not fair" comments aren't getting anyone anywhere. Everyone on this forum complains that there isnt more awareness yet few are actively trying to change it. Everyone complains about a double standard, yet remain content blurring the genderlines in their own living room instead of going out and showing ppl that they really are no different. Hubby and I discuss this often, the risks and the dangers are enough to keep anyone closeted, and understandably so, but until enough ppl are courageous enough to step up and push past it, things will remain as they are.

[Kimberly]

It's a toughy, for sure! But I want to be out, I want to show people that we're just the same as them. College -- my holy grail. I'm coming out fully there, but slowly, so everyone just doesn't disown me or completely ignores me.

[Robin Leigh]

I reckon a lot of girls here, go out and think they've "passed" with flying colours - thinking that everyone else has sussed them as a woman.

Reality check, girls! They might not make a fuss, but most people probably read you and just don't care. So why is passing such an issue on here? People can read you, and not say anything right away - but you could be someone's gossiping material for the next few days!


You could well be right about some of us. A few here will pass with ease much of the time. Some of us will pass sometimes. And some of us will never pass. Hey, some GGs even get suspected of being MTF CDs.:) It's fun to believe you're passing - it's certainly a lot more fun than losing your nerve and wanting to run away, or having a bunch of guys chasing you. :eek:


Just think about that when you go out... Me? When I go out (if and when! hah!) the plan is to go out as Transgendered. On one level, being feminine - but not trying to con everyone into believing I'm a woman. You can quote me on that one!

I think some of the girls here got upset with you in this thread Kimberly because you haven't been out en femme in public yet, so it's seems somewhat presumptious of you to talk about our attitudes to passing when you don't know what it feels like out en femme yourself. Frankly, it makes you sound a bit like a virgin talking about sex. :)

Good luck with your plan for coming out when you go to college, although I must admit when I first read about it, I did have some misgivings. I think you ought to go out dressed somewhere, well away from home or college, and find out how it really feels to be dressed in public before you start your coming out process.

:hugs:

Robin.

[Rachel Morley]

Tamara and the others are right. We can (technically) wear anything we like, there is no law against it. However, unlike women, we haven't yet earned the right to wear whatever we want....not if you want to be socially accepted. In the past women were "not allowed" to wear all sorts of mascucline clothes. I'm talking 100 years ago here. They were expected (because of men) to wear corsets, dresses, etc etc....pants and trousers were frowned upon. It wasn't until the women's movement fought for their rights by getting out there and being seen....they made it happen.

IMHO it's going to be the same for us. We (me included) have to get out there in our dresses and be seen for what we are....transgendered. It's not going to be an easy ride, and we are going to have to take some risks, but if ultimately, we are going to get accepted more in society then people have to know about us. It's up to us to educate them that we are harmless individuals and we are not to be feared...despite what they may perceive.

We have one additional thing that we have to deal with, and that is the social hierarchy within our society. When a woman dresses in a way that is perceived to be masculine it's not considered a problem because she's going "up the scale". However, when a man dresses in a way that is perceived to be feminine it is a problem because (especially amongst other men) he's lowering himself because in their eyes dressing feminine is being less of a man, and being less of a man is considered a bad thing.

Now, obviously I'm generalizing about the public at large, and not everyone thinks this way, but IMHO the only way we will ever be truly accepted is when women truly get an equal status in society with men. Why hasn't there ever been a female US President? Where are all the female military Generals? Am I making any sense here? The key to it being accepted is the empowerment of women. That’s why all cders should be interested in women’s issues and leveling the playing field instead of complaining that it’s not fair. I'll get off my soap box now. :sb: