Passing Bashing, will it end soon?

[Sophie Haworth]

Ok, I am starting to get a little upset.

Just lately passing seems to be getting a bashing.

I am obviously not normal.

Am I wrong to want to look as much like a woman as possible?

It would seem that I am not a crossdresser, I am something else, something different, most of the time I am a man, but some of the time I go all out to be female.

I know, I am not a crossdresser, I am a transvestite!!!

Perhaps that is the difference, crossdressers seem to be content to be seen by others as men with wigs and dresses on. Fine I have no problem with that at all, but please stop criticising those who whether we can or not try to look like a woman as much as possible.

A lot of people have offered me great encouragement here in this forum and I am immensely grateful for all the kind things said in the past about my photos and stories of going out.

I am beginning to feel now that I am in a minority within this group, perhaps I need to join a transvestite forum, you know the ones who like to look as much like a woman as they can and are disappointed when they look like blokes with lipstick on.

I think we should continue to support each other 100%, and not splitting those who wish to try to pass and those for whom it does not really matter into two types.

It is true that those of us who go out to try to pass get a great deal of excitement from it and and try to pass on that excitement to you here in this forum. Call it exuberance.

When I tell you my stories, they are not bragging stories, I am not saying that I am better than anyone else here, if you read them they are stories of planning, fear, panic, and other things that we go through when out in the general public dressed, and also they are stories that you kindly respond to with tips and helpful advice.

I dress to pass and always have done.

Maybe one day trying to look as much like a woman as possible will make a comeback.

Sophie Howarth.

[pinkshelly]

I too try to pass as well as possible, and try to as often as possible. I don't know where this comes from, is this something that has come up with us. If it is thats very said. I hope I haven't done this to anyone. I love ya all.
Huggs, Shelly.

[Byllie]

I think the issue here is not that trying to pass is a bad thing, rather that it is not required to be a crossdresser. As I see it, crossdressing is a continuum, from those that simply want to wear panties occasionally, to those who wish to be female 24/7. It's all nomeclature, after all, all labels that folks use to make it easier for others.

But labels can be misleading. That's like saying all Democrats think exactly alike or all Republicans follow George Bush. It's not that simple.

So I suggest you relax, and simply be yourself, and don't worry about the labels, or what to call yourself. Just be you, whatever that is, and enjoy.

[Jolene]

Hi Sophie.
As long as you enjoy what you do that is the important thing. Myself along with many others I think would love to be able to pass but know we can't. It is fun to read about the experences of you and the others who can. To sort of live it with you...................... Jolene

[Lilith Moon]

I think the consensus seems to be that passing is good but not essential.

[Holly]

Sophie, perhaps it is not so much "passing bashing" as it is coming to a realization that passing is not necessarily the goal. I'm with you in that when I dress, I want to look my very best. I just think it's not healthy for me to depend on what others think of my looks (passing) as a measure of my happiness. The only scrutiny I need to pass is my own in the mirror. I honestly can't say that I've picked up on any hostility toward those of us who enjoy the full experience of transforming into T-Girls, and like you, I've had an enormous amount of support here (you included). Just keep doing what makes you happy, Sophie... you've got a lot going for you. :hugs:

[Kimberly]

As a perpetrator of "passing bashing" I just wanna defend my position.

I just wanted to make clear to some members, from some of my few experiences, that they may believe they pass when actually it's a different matter.

I'm not trying to degrade your expression in any way - but passing has conflicts with some of the issues I address when thinking about my crossdressing. Think of this, for instance: by crossdressing fully as female, and wanting to be considered a true female for any period of time, aren't we just confirming and adhearing to the cisgender rules of the other gender?? So, this surely degrades our position on gender bending, doesn't it? If we say, "why should I be a man?? I don't want to wear shirts... I don't want to have to be macho... etc etc." then presenting as women is confirming another set of rules which are equally, if not more, oppressive to women?

If you want this - then I do not wish to stop you, or change your mind about that. What is good, is discussion on this - and remember this forum carries a broad spectrum of dressers. I myself, enjoy myself emulating and presenting as female. I just think "passing" is used way too much. "Passing" to many means they can present as female and get away with it. (Bad phrasing, I know... it's 1:25am.) The reality could well be, and probably is, that the person who you thought ignored you/considered you female couldn't care less what you're presenting as today.

Basically: however you want to present, is fine by me - as long as you're enjoying yourself. But I appeal - use the word "passing" sparingly. I just think, on here, too much emphasis to be able to pass has been put on the members - from exposure to it. I know it got me thinking, but I just sit, wait and try to work out a middle way.

I just wanna dress and look good. Too much pressure to "pass" can be bad for members. xx

[Angie G]

Hi Sophie I'd never baash some one for trying to pass
if they can or can't if what you are doiny makes you happy go for it ,
I can't pass so I don't try if you can and do good for you you go girl I'm happy for you :hugs:
Angie

[Calliope]

Perhaps that is the difference, crossdressers seem to be content to be seen by others as men with wigs and dresses on.

It's language like that which sounds catty.

Posting videos of yourself 'passing' does seem like boasting 'Look how good I look - and (unlike you) I can prove it.'

Maybe I've a guilty conscience - I mention my hair waay too often - and hearing of (and seeing) your latest conquests reminds me that biology deals everyone a different deck of cards.

A bit more sensitivity on my part is called for.

And, if I may say as much, a bit more for you, too.

[GypsyKaren]

I don't have a clue what you're talking about, passing bashing? I read everything that's posted here and I don't see it, and I really don't recall many "happy to be a man in a wig" posts either. What I do see is different opinions on the subject, such as it's okay to go out even if you don't look like a 100% GG, which I have to truthfully say that the vast majority of us don't. Should I stay in because I don't look like Julia Roberts?

Karen

[Sherlyn]

I honestly ..don't see where the passing bashing is being done ..and I've read thru the threads directly related to this thread ..I've even see that my name was mentioned ...personally I dont come on here and rave about going out using the" I PASSED PHRASE"...passing ..or not....my personal view to this thread Sophie is ..it seems like your not quite comfortable yet with yourself ..when out ..otherwise none of this what you call passing bashing should bother you ...let it go ...it will only negate your feelings ....specially when to some.. as I noted in the other thread ..make a joke of it

[Yes I am]

I recently watched a few documentaries about the legendary transvestite filmmaker, Edward D. Wood Jr., and I was interested to learn that during the filming of "Glen or Glenda" the make-up guy had a wig Ed refused to wear in the film. Because it actually made him look pretty good. As it was told, Ed wanted to look like a real transvestite in the film (which he was), not "prettied up" for the big screen. I think that sentiment is the same for some of us who scorn "passing," in that we're striving for something a little more real. Because when you break it down, really, mtf crossdressers are "guys in dresses," and there's nothing wrong with that at all.

[renee k]

Sophie, perhaps it is not so much "passing bashing" as it is coming to a realization that passing is not necessarily the goal. I'm with you in that when I dress, I want to look my very best. I just think it's not healthy for me to depend on what others think of my looks (passing) as a measure of my happiness. The only scrutiny I need to pass is my own in the mirror. I honestly can't say that I've picked up on any hostility toward those of us who enjoy the full experience of transforming into T-Girls, and like you, I've had an enormous amount of support here (you included). Just keep doing what makes you happy, Sophie... you've got a lot going for you. :hugs:

Hi Sophie, I totally agree with Holly. I too want to look my best when I go out and I'm my own worst critic when it comes to passing by the mirror. You have a wonderful female presentation. And as Holly stated "Just keep doing what makes you happy" That's all that counts.

Huggs, Renee

[RikkiOfLA]

I too am one of those who tries to look like a woman when I go out dressed enfemme. And that's been 24/7 for the past few years. But please note that I say "tries." Do I succeed? I don't think I do all the time. But at the same time, I most of the time manage to look like a real person. Not a clown, not a faker, not trying to get noticed by everyone. Just a real person. Enough like a woman that people don't point, snicker, or laugh.

How do I accomplish that? I'm not beautiful. I'm not young--I'm in my 50s and I look my age. Mostly it's attitude. I know how to quiet teenagers with a matronly look of authority. And if that doesn't work, I've watched GGs deal with drunks, hecklers, and so on. So if anyone wants to mess with me, he won't be sure he's not messing with some ugly older woman. And the public is merciless on men who try that, believe me! And it works. I had my purse snatched once, and over a dozen people came to my help, in various ways. Men chased the perp down the street, even jumping off a construction scaffold to join the chase. Women called the police on their cell phones and even invited me over to their homes after the chase was over to calm down. The perp finally gave up and threw my purse in the street, and I retrieved everything. People can be wonderful if you let them.

At the same time, I know that some people (according to them) will never pass. And some don't want to. Makes no difference to me. I'm not ashamed to be seen in public with any of my TG sisters and brothers--gender benders, drag queens, crossdressers, transvestites, transsexuals, whatever. People are people. And everyone deserves respect. So I don't bash anyone for trying to pass, or not trying to pass, or trying not to pass.

Rikki

[Kaitlyn Michele]

feeling like a man in a dress doesnt do it for me...

i want to feel like a gg...its a fantasy but thats what does it for me

and that's why "passing" matters..but in my mind as iv'e said before passing is just being accepted...if anybody thinks i'm a gg then they are not paying alot of attention...i often think that if people look at me and think thats a "transsexual" then thats the best i can hope for...in fact i guess i hope for that because thats about the best i can do.. not even sure that makes sense

i think sophie you are a bit overreacting to some comments but its all good...some girls are jealous and some girls are supportive and some are both!!!...just enjoy and keep posting...i think your vids and posts are great...

michele

[JenniferMint]

I try to look like an attractive young woman when I dress. According to hotornot.com, I rate a 6.9 and are hotter than 65% of all women!

It'd be grand if I could get my rating up to 8.0. ^.^ (I'm considering facial feminization surgery in the future)

[Jennaie]

To some, passing is foremost for them. We do not have to question why. For some, passing is not important at all. We do not have to question why.

I admire any person who has the ability to express themselves the way they want to. I admire the heck out of Buffalo Bill, who dresses as he pleases with a full beard covering his face. I equally admire the cd who goes out and comes home without a single instance of feeling that they were clocked as a man in womens clothing.

When I see a girl who has a video of herself, I don't think she is bragging at all. I think she is asking for honest opinions. She is trying to improve herself and this is her help line.

There is no need to feel like anyone here is trying to one up anyone else. If passing is important to you, I understand and admire that, if it's not, I understand and admire that too.

There is no need for those who believe they pass to think that they are above anyone else. If someone does, well, that is a personal problem that is theirs to deal with, not mine.

I support anyone here who dresses, period.:happy:

[Deborah]

In my opinion there are girls here who i wouldn't give a second look at on the street. On the other hand there are some who i would smile that knowing smile and only wish i could come up to and chat together.
So whether you pass or not doesn't really matter to me. Look your best and have fun with it

[GG Vanya]

To some, passing is foremost for them. We do not have to question why. For some, passing is not important at all. We do not have to question why.

I admire any person who has the ability to express themselves the way they want to. I admire the heck out of Buffalo Bill, who dresses as he pleases with a full beard covering his face. I equally admire the cd who goes out and comes home without a single instance of feeling that they were clocked as a man in womens clothing.

When I see a girl who has a video of herself, I don't think she is bragging at all. I think she is asking for honest opinions. She is trying to improve herself and this is her help line.
There is no need to feel like anyone here is trying to one up anyone else. If passing is important to you, I understand and admire that, if it's not, I understand and admire that too.

There is no need for those who believe they pass to think that they are above anyone else. If someone does, well, that is a personal problem that is theirs to deal with, not mine.

I support anyone here who dresses, period.:happy:

Jennaie,

This brings up another point. In the picture forum, I don't believe "everyone" wants an honest opinion or critique. I also don't believe the responses which are given are totally honest.

Yes, I believe in encouraging those who have self doubt. What I don't think is good, is when someone posts a picture and asks "what do you think", and everyone lays on the "you go girl"s thick and heavy, and says how great they look, when in all honesty this person could use some constructive criticism. It's my opinion it's a disservice to the person to mislead them into believing they are totally passable, look absolutely great, etc.

I don't make many comments in that section, because of the simple fact that I've yet to figure out *how* to give pointers without coming across as being negatively critical. I've seen a few I think look fantastic, and those I've PM'd privately with my opinion. When I see something that is distinctly femme, such as an accessory, I'll openly comment on that.

For the most part, commenting on passable or no is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation on either side.

I also made a post in the lounge once, about those trying to pass and those simply presenting themselves in the manner with which they feel most comfortable. I mentioned that GG's *perhaps* are more receptive to those who don't try to totally pass, because there isn't the "deceit" factor~trying to pass as something/someone you are not. NO, this is not condemnation! It's simply an observation from my side of the stands~the one where the home team fans sit.

[Melanie]

I also dress to pass as completely as I can,but as I stated in another post I am a little out of practice in comparison to my frequent outings in the late 90's and early 2001.
I have encountered some pretty vain T girls,but most I have met were warm and civil to all they mingled with including me.Overall it's been pretty positive.
I also am the type as others had stated above that will talk to anyone passable or non- passable.I believe we are all sisters,some need help/advice to become more passable and others don't desire to completely pass,it's all an individual choice.
We are all sisters with one thing in common , we ALL love to dress do we not?
and that in itself makes us unique to many other minority groups on the fringes of society.

Love to all sisters,
Melanie :hugs:

[angelfire]

My opinion is, if you can pass, and want to pass, go for it. I wish I could go out and pass, but that just isn't realistic without changing myself in ways I would rather not change. I don't try because I know I can't pull it off. Maybe when I lose more weight I will try, but at this point I want to be a thin, or at least muscular girl, and not overweight in the bad way.

On the other hand, if you don't want to pass, thats fine too. Doesn't matter, to each their own. Just know whatever you do here, you will always have everyone's support(unless you are an axe murderer or the like).

[Jennaie]

Vanya:

If I see a girl who wants an honest opinion and I see things that I think she can do to make her look better, I tell her. Sometimes in private, sometimes in the forums. I am not going to tell someone they look great if I don't believe it.

I have never had any person in these forums send me a message telling me that they did not appreciate my comments and suggestions about how they might improve their look.

In the case of a certain video that was recently posted, I was honest and she replied with an honest sense of gratitude for the suggestions that I made.

If others here want to extend compliments that are unfounded, well, to me, thats not being very helpful. I try to follow the rule, if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing, but there is nothing wrong with saying, It is obvious that you have worked hard on this, but I think you can do better, and here are my suggestions. :happy:

[Satrana]

I used to believe in the CD dogma that passing was the be-all, end-all then I realized that was not true for myself. I also realized that passing was actually about deceiving others which in the long run is probably not a healthy thing to do. Of course I can appreciate the art in perfecting an image and behaviour and the buzz you get by actually passing in public but I think for most CDs, we have learned that crossdressing is much, much more than passing, that crossdressing is a way of life reflecting our personalties. As such I think those who solely focus on passing are missing the bigger picture.

I have no problems with anyone attempting to pass, it is something we all try to do but I believe the crossdressing community is maturing as it comes out of the closet and there is a better appreciation of the other aspects in which crossdressing touches our lives.

[Billijo49504]

Hi, as I've said before, the mirror lies for me. So that is why I use a camera to take a picture, to view later. Then I can look at it later to evaluate it, as passing or not. As someone else said, we can be our own worst enemy. Wheather you pass or not, or care if you are, the important part is if you are happy with who you are....BJ

[Khriss]

..yeah..reality sucks ! ...but go to K Mart any given day and "girls" posting this site often far exceed " femme' " representations of public presentation of the "THE" female "ideal" .. I have'nt bumped into Audry Hepburn..either gender.. lately (ever) - nor am I expecting to...oh..and..
I'd still love to "pass" ..(while I'm 6'4" tall and reality kicks in too ...eh ?)
xx"K"

[susiej]

Sophie,

You said, "I am obviously not normal. Am I wrong to want to look as much like a woman as possible?"

You may not be normal (whatever that is), but you are extremely fortunate to be able to pass! And, certainly not, repeat, not, wrong. Live it up, girl!

I for one would never bash the idea of passing -- wish to heaven I could do it, but I haven't the cheekbones!

Hugs,
Susie

[Wendy Seymone]

Personally, I could care less. I love being a girl, and I will simply let the people
that I interact with decide for themselves how convincing they think I am at it. :battingeyelashes:

[Kate Simmons]

I never "bash" passing, I just try to show others that it's more of a mindset than going out in public to be "rated" by others. What happens if you don't "pass" ? Do you "fail"? That's total BS. If you've made yourself happy by dressing whether you go in public or not, you've accomplished your "misssion". Part (maybe all) of the goal is to feel good about who you are. If you do that, regardless of whether you "pass" or not you've done what you set out to do.As others have said before, "passing" is over rated and I, personally, don't waste my time worrying about it. I have better things to do like visiting my friends who accept me and go dancing, etc. Regardless of how you define yourself, if you are happy with who you are, that's what counts in my book.:happy: Ericka Kay

[Lisa Golightly]

I thought crossdresser and transvestite were synonymous terms... hey ho!

As for passing bashing... well that one passed me by. As far as I'm concerned the God of Passing lies in nature and not in application.

[Karren H]

Don't think anyone was bashing passing Just stating that its not everyones ultimate goal... And I could care less if I pass. But I try damn hard to look as good of a woman that I can...hell sometimes I find it equaly hard trying to pass as a male... Especially in summer!

So let's go bash something else for a while. Any good suggestions? How about we pick a different group every day to bash!!

"Le Dump Du Jour"

Ewww Laaa Laaaa

Hehehe

Love Karren

[suzannecarr]

girls, i happened on this conversation, and just had to comment, this forum, just like the real world. has differing opinons, there are different types of people, on this forum, there are happy go lucky people, there are really intelligent types, there are flat out dingy broads, there are those who think that only there opinion matters, there are really nice caring people and there are hurtful people, i see both sides of this, and everyone here should. i can see that some comments were basically only used for the purpose of "one upsmanship" or to get the last word, its clear that we have varying opinions on things, there are only so many places in this world that people of our kind can go too, and so if i may be so bold as to suggest, this place is not for one type of crossdresser, or transvestite or anything, there are a wide range of views on this subject, and qute frankly no one is completely right, no matter how intelectually sound they may seem, i have a real problem with anyone teaming up against another, i teach my children to come to the aid of others when in need. and it only depends on who reads a post first according to the way opinions are turned sometimes(what type of crossdresser) ive seen some really mean responses on the forum. but ive made some really great friends who really know me, in short, like rodney king said," why cant we all get along!" im sure someone will come behind me and write some condescending letter, but oh well, im the ditzy broad, i dont care:tongueout , girl if you pass good for you! some women might not be the most beautiful, but they appear more femme than masculine, thats kinda where i am, anyway , thats my :2c: , suzanne

[Sweet Marie]

Well, I for one thought transvestite is the word the mental health people used and crossdresser was preferred by us kind folks who...well, crossdress. It's a preference and I prefer to be called a crossdresser. Just MY preference.

On passing; I know there are times I do and sometimes I don't. It has a lot to do with my self-confidence at that time and if I like what I see in the mirror. There are probably times I think I am passing when in reality the people around me don't care or are to self absorbed to notice. And that's fine.

For those who don't pass; I wish you did because going out in public and being yourself is wonderful. I also feel if I didn't pass, I would still "crossdress." That's who I am.

Marie


Some humans aren't human. Some human's aren't kind...John Prine

[MsJanessa]

Sophie, perhaps it is not so much "passing bashing" as it is coming to a realization that passing is not necessarily the goal. I'm with you in that when I dress, I want to look my very best. I just think it's not healthy for me to depend on what others think of my looks (passing) as a measure of my happiness. The only scrutiny I need to pass is my own in the mirror. I honestly can't say that I've picked up on any hostility toward those of us who enjoy the full experience of transforming into T-Girls, and like you, I've had an enormous amount of support here (you included). Just keep doing what makes you happy, Sophie... you've got a lot going for you. :hugs:

Ditto Holly--I couldn't have said it better myself----the goal is to look as good as you can---one of the most "passable" T-Girls I know looks like my 75 year old, overweight maiden aunt----but you would never think she was a T until she opens her mouth----5'7" 200+ pounds and old lady clothes and hair--but she is very very passable----My personal goal is to look as good as I can --I'm 5'11" 160lbs +or- and turn heads when I enter a club or a bar----but I suspect that many, if not, most of my admirers know I'm a T and not a GG---(but hey, I'm an inch shorter than Paris Hilton) That's ok as long as they stare at me with that certain look(and you know the one I mean). If a T can pass that' sfine with me---but it is not My goal---other wise I wouldn't be wearing the satin and leather outfits, hi heeled thigh high boots, big hair, dramantic makeup and the rest. For me to pass I would have to dress down--and I don't want to do that. xoxoxox J

[Wendy me]

passing, bashing and looking like a guy in a dress.... it's all in what you want ....the thing that really gets me is people of life styles like ours that say things negative or hurt full to one of our own....... OK from out and about to deep in the closet or just dreaming of a little support from any one ...... it's a sad sad thing when negative things are slung our way ..... if we ever have hope that cding in it's many different forms become accepted then it should start right here with us,.......

[Calliope]

the thing that really gets me is people of life styles like ours that say things negative or hurt full to one of our own.......


Why were the bitterest musical conflicts amongst the Beatles themselves? Family members?

Generally speaking, it's the intimacy (we have more opinions about topics we know) and, often (but not always) the hope that the affection within the criticism will ease the sting.

'If you have nothing good to say, say nothing' - that's my attitude towards strangers.

And there's a difference between negative and hurtful.

[Sky]

This brings up another point. In the picture forum, I don't believe "everyone" wants an honest opinion or critique. I also don't believe the responses which are given are totally honest.

Oh yeah !!!!

You totally nailed it, girl!

[GG Vanya]

I thought crossdresser and transvestite were synonymous terms... hey ho!

As for passing bashing... well that one passed me by. As far as I'm concerned the God of Passing lies in nature and not in application.

Lisa,

I'm glad you said that. Trudi is what I consider to be old school, and has always identified herself as TV.

To me, transvestite is the "clinical" term for crossdressing.

Trans=Cross Vestiture=Dress

transvestite
Main Entry: trans·ves·tite
Pronunciation: tran(t)s-'ves-"tIt, tranz-
Function: noun
Etymology: German Transvestit, from Latin trans- + vestire to clothe -- more at VEST
: a person and especially a male who adopts the dress and often the behavior typical of the opposite sex especially for purposes of emotional or sexual gratification

* now the last two words I don't necessarily agree with <shrug>

Somewhere along the way, TV became indicative of being bi or gay. Now I feel odd about saying Trudi is a TV. NOT because I have a problem with anyone *being* gay or bi, so don't start with me folks please, it's just that Trudi is neither.

Oh well, just another reason not to utilize labels.

[Deborah_UK]

Jennaie,

This brings up another point. In the picture forum, I don't believe "everyone" wants an honest opinion or critique. I also don't believe the responses which are given are totally honest.

Yes, I believe in encouraging those who have self doubt. What I don't think is good, is when someone posts a picture and asks "what do you think", and everyone lays on the "you go girl"s thick and heavy, and says how great they look, when in all honesty this person could use some constructive criticism. It's my opinion it's a disservice to the person to mislead them into believing they are totally passable, look absolutely great, etc.



This struck a chord with me - I know that on a VERY good day I can (and have) passed - which is what I seek, because as a non-op TS I feel that need. But some of the photos I've seen are clearly of a guy in a skirt and top (why do we say guy in a dress- when rarely is a dress is on show? :confused: - side issue tho) yet the encouragement can be OTT.

Some on here pass so well - I find it hard to understand their shyness at times, but I agree with Vanya - I'd rather be told - your stubble is showing, too much hair on your ams etc, than the "you look fantastic", how can one improve? its like the child's story "The Kings New Coat"

However - each and everyone is entitled to dress and present themselves the way they feel - just be prepared for the potential difficulties that may ensue while wandering round M & S in a micro skirt and 5" heels! :D

[GG Vanya]

Ditto Holly--I couldn't have said it better myself----the goal is to look as good as you can---one of the most "passable" T-Girls I know looks like my 75 year old, overweight maiden aunt----but you would never think she was a T until she opens her mouth----5'7" 200+ pounds and old lady clothes and hair--but she is very very passable----My personal goal is to look as good as I can --I'm 5'11" 160lbs +or- and turn heads when I enter a club or a bar----but I suspect that many, if not, most of my admirers know I'm a T and not a GG---(but hey, I'm an inch shorter than Paris Hilton) That's ok as long as they stare at me with that certain look(and you know the one I mean). If a T can pass that' sfine with me---but it is not My goal---other wise I wouldn't be wearing the satin and leather outfits, hi heeled thigh high boots, big hair, dramantic makeup and the rest. For me to pass I would have to dress down--and I don't want to do that. xoxoxox J

Oh well, I'm "just a GG" so what the heck do I know, but having been married to a CD for 7 years, I thought the "goal" was to express yourself outwardly, as a part of you feels inwardly. I still don't understand the dire need for crossdressers to pass. TS's? I understand that totally. But for CD's, the word you use to describe yourself, in its self, denotes that you are a male dressing as a female. (in this forum of course~it would be reversed in the F2M forum).

Trudi looks DAYUM good when dressed, but I'm so very thankful that passing isn't the be all and end all for her. I'd hate so think she spends so much time chasing that brass ring that she doesn't enjoy just "being" Trudi.

Is it possible that some CD's who obsess over passing may lean more toward TS than they realize? (Just a question ya'll, no malice intended.)

[Marla S]

My :2c: though most everything has been said


Am I wrong to want to look as much like a woman as possible? No, not necessarily.

It would seem that I am not a crossdresser, I am something else, something different, most of the time I am a man, but some of the time I go all out to be female.
Crossdressing sums up all those various approaches to feminity that include clothes. The only thing we all here have in common is that at least part's of our clothes have the label "women's wear" and that we get blamed for that. In this sense we are all something different.


Perhaps that is the difference, crossdressers seem to be content to be seen by others as men with wigs and dresses on. Fine I have no problem with that at all, but please stop criticising those who whether we can or not try to look like a woman as much as possible.
Wrong and a bit disrespecting ! Most are simply not able to pass because of there physical features. That doesn't automaticaly mean that they have no problem with it or wouldn't want to pass. They try, but fail. That's not a very pleasant situation. Saying "You don't pass" is just honesty than. Wanting to pass is not equal to passing. Sometimes this has to be said (though it hurts), because the excitement about the own appearance (huge transformation and contrast finally) can make blind for the actual appearence.

Passing is even harder for those that dress on a 24/7 basis, because for most it is an considerable, time consuming effort to become passable.

Passing is not only a way to express ones feminity.
Passing is also a way to escape from social repression and a "justification" for CDing, because if you really pass you have nothing to fear and your action is "better" justified. That might be a motive for some (not all) to try to pass.
But for all those not able to pass this "door to freedom and justification" is locked.

What's their choice ? They have to watch out for another. more realistic goal than passing. These goals need to be discussed, because it effects most of the CD community. But again, that doesn't mean passing is disrespected.



I am beginning to feel now that I am in a minority within this group, perhaps I need to join a transvestite forum, you know the ones who like to look as much like a woman as they can and are disappointed when they look like blokes with lipstick on.
Minority? Blokes? What do you think how minorityish folks like me feel when we look into the gallery section or are considered "blokes with lipstick on" (think about your words choice). In the gallery section from those that found their style, almost exclusively those trying to pass or to look passable as "woman" show up. Why ?
And yes, if you really pass you belong to a minority. Even a smaller minotity if you can achieve this within a day to day lifstyle. Is it disrespecting to mention that ?


I think we should continue to support each other 100%, and not splitting those who wish to try to pass and those for whom it does not really matter into two types.
There are dozens of types. Though we should not artificially split those types up, it doesn't make sense to reduce them to only two. This is disrespecting to a lot of folks and does make support tricky.

[Sophie Haworth]

Well, I did open this can of worms, I am very pleased to see that all the responses have been calm and measured, and I wished to raise the point that trying to pass, and until a better word for it materialises, that's what I will call it, is very important to some.

No one has personally attacked my posts, let me make that clear.

It is just that there have been comments to suggest that it is not important, and I think by all the responses that seems to be the feeling of most, well fantastic, its great that you get as much fun out of this as I do, and no doubt with an awful lot less stress.

But, those comments make me feel like I should not post my stories of going out, I believed that you enjoyed reading about someone who goes out and tries to be a woman, and I also appreciated the comments made about things I need to change to improve, comments I asked for, the feedback is important.

I also say thank you to those who have posted in this thread who`s posts I read that set me off, thank you for responding.

This forum contains a great bunch of people, and I visit every day even when I am in 99.99% male mode.

I wish it to remain a great forum for encouragement in all areas of what we do, and if someone announces that they have been out and passed 110%, then It would be nice not to hear in other threads that, they (people who claim to pass) probably did not, they are just deluding themselves, or other comments that would suggest the feeling of passing is over-rated, and to some it is.

Do you remember the feeling of walking in high heels the first time?

WOW!

That feeling is hard to describe, but as enjoyable as the feeling of passing.

I am sure there have been posts from new CDs who announce they have worn heels or other items for the first time. We congratulate and identify with them.

I have never heard it said that heels are not what there cracked up to be, I don't wear them, a good pair of sturdy walking boots is what I wear with my evening dress.:heehee:

I will admit it has been difficult to respond to this thread as it has generated so many comments, but I would dearly love to see us all on the same side, supporting each other within this forum in all manner of ways, because the support is not really there in the "real world", and we really do have only each other.

With LOVE

Sophie.

[Marla S]

I wish it to remain a great forum for encouragement in all areas of what we do, and if someone announces that they have been out and passed 110%, then It would be nice not to hear in other threads that, they (people who claim to pass) probably did not, they are just deluding themselves, or other comments that would suggest the feeling of passing is over-rated, and to some it is.
Please consider that it works the other way too. To give a too optimistic impression of passing might force some to choose a way that is not appropriate for them (we are all learning here). So it must be possible to talk about different and even critical aspects of passing. You can expect respect for yourself (from my side you have it) and in threads started by you, but in other threads it must be possible to talk about less pleasent aspects too, as long nobody is personally mobbed.
We can solve this dilemma only with honesty and and respect.

One main problem with discussions about passing is that we here in this forum can't really judge if someone passes. Pics are not the ultimate reference. To judge if someone passes is up to the people that see you walking around. Sadly you can't be sure about what they think. So, our discussions remain theoretical anyway.

[Sophia Rearen]

Passing. It's what you make of it. For me, sometimes, I like to feel and look as best as I can to be left alone. I just want to blend in and go about my business as any GG would. Walking in a crowded mall for instance.

Other times, I want to look as good as I possibly can to be noticed and hopefully inspire some good conversation. However, if I'm conversing, I certainly am not passing. Bars or clubs are the perfect venue.

[Calliope]

Do you remember the feeling of walking in high heels the first time?


Nope, sure don't. Never wore heels.

Never knew a woman (intimately) who wore 'em either. Been married twice.

Is wearing heels 'passing'?

[Bernice]

Passing may not be my goal, but if I don't feel I can pass, then I don't go out. For me to go out in public when I know I can't pass, is to risk physical assault and verbal abuse, and perhaps public humiliation. I get enough of that in drab (a little goes a long way). I don't need any more of that.

So, if the goal is to go out, and to show the world that we exist and are not to be feared, then the question for me is how to do that safely. Being passable is my best defense. Until I have a better answer, or lose a lot of weight again, I'm back in the closet. Sorry if I dissappoint anyone.

And yes, I thought I was fairly passable - at least sometimes, that was until I saw some of the rest of your magnificent pictures.

Though it has already been said, I'd rather not bash anyone on this forum, regardless of their position on this thread.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

To me, transvestite is the "clinical" term for crossdressing.

FYI, there's a cross-cultural issue at play too. In the U.S. for various historical reasons, crossdressers took a dislike to the term "transvestite" because they felt that it have overtones of fetishism. That's not true in the U.K. and many other countries, where "transvestite" is usual term.

For what it's worth, I personally am in favor "reclaiming" transvestite -- similar to how gays turned "queer" from an insult into a term of pride -- because of "transvestites" connection to the wider trans spectrum. But that's just me.

As far as passing, I do work hard to present myself as a woman. But if I'm read, it's not devastating. I'm more interested in just expressing myself.

[Kimberly]

Please consider that it works the other way too. To give a too optimistic impression of passing might force some to choose a way that is not appropriate for them (we are all learning here). So it must be possible to talk about different and even critical aspects of passing. You can expect respect for yourself (from my side you have it) and in threads started by you, but in other threads it must be possible to talk about less pleasent aspects too, as long nobody is personally mobbed.
We can solve this dilemma only with honesty and and respect.
:yt:

It's important we express both views on passing and going out to people like myself who are venturing out for the first few times don't have a onesided impression of what it'll be like.

[Kate Simmons]

Sophie, We definately want to hear your experiences for sure as well as everyone's. I just wanted to point out that not all of us worry about passing. We just go out and do it and are ourselves and have a good time. That's what it's all about in my opinion, enjoying who you are and not worrying about what others think of you. :happy: Ericka Kay

[Sky]

I wish it to remain a great forum for encouragement in all areas of what we do, and if someone announces that they have been out and passed 110%, then It would be nice not to hear in other threads that, they (people who claim to pass) probably did not, they are just deluding themselves...

Beg to differ. Automatic praise is not a positive thing. Once upon a time, America (and probably England too) was tougher and people told things they way they saw it, no sugar added. (incidentally, in other countries they still do it that way). Nowadays, we are all supposed to be supportive of everything and criticism became a foul word. I'm not too crazy about it. And in any case, please note that those people who say, in a generic way, that "some" cds "probably" don't pass are indeed being polite. Most of us simply don't respond when we see somebody who doesn't look too great -we just move to another post, but that doesn't mean we all believe we are all gorgeous.

[MsJanessa]

I've met plenty of Ts---some gorgeous and passable, some gorgeous and not passable(usually height issues), some passable but homily and some not passable and homily---I would never, ever under any circumstances critisize another T girls looks----I might suggest makeup and wig tips or possibly suggest certain types of outfits but that's as far as it would go---its hard enough for all of us to be out in public----our courage should be applauded and encouraged not discouraged.

[Sophie Haworth]

Perhaps I have been too oversensitive on this subject, I almost do not wish to use the word passing now, perhaps change it to convincing?

The point I have tried to make is something that is very important to me in my crossdressing life, and a few others here, "passing" was beginning to be put down more than I thought it deserved.

An analogy.

You go to the movies and see a fantastic film, you walk out with your 5 friends, and say "wasnt that brilliant" and they respond with "rubbish, waste of time, did nothing for me, would not wish to see it again"

You feel crestfallen that your friends could not share your enjoyment of the movie, so the best thing to do is keep quiet.

Sophie.

[Melanie]

girl if you pass good for you! some women might not be the most beautiful, but they appear more femme than masculine, thats kinda where i am, anyway , thats my :2c: , suzanne

I couldn't agree more with this comment above.Cding is about expresssing our femme persona is it not?,regardless of whether we pass or not.We dress for the sensations and feeling it brings us and so must learn to enjoy it for what it is.
We are all sisters in my eyes.
Hugs,
Melanie :hugs:

[Jennaie]

Perhaps I have been too oversensitive on this subject, I almost do not wish to use the word passing now, perhaps change it to convincing?

The point I have tried to make is something that is very important to me in my crossdressing life, and a few others here, "passing" was beginning to be put down more than I thought it deserved.

An analogy.

You go to the movies and see a fantastic film, you walk out with your 5 friends, and say "wasnt that brilliant" and they respond with "rubbish, waste of time, did nothing for me, would not wish to see it again"

You feel crestfallen that your friends could not share your enjoyment of the movie, so the best thing to do is keep quiet.

Sophie.

Sophie, don't think that no one feels the same as you as far as passing is concerned. Personaly, before I go out, I walk out into the sun's light and look at my face in a mirror, if I don't see a woman, I don't go out. If I did get stares and people looking at me funny when I was out I would stop going out.

That is just the way it is for me, I don't know how to explain it to anyone. For me, passing is imperative. I have no desire to go out and be seen as a man in womens clothing. I do have a desire to go out and be seen as a woman. It's that simple, and if people think I'm obsessed or over the line because I am that way, well honestly, it does not bother me a bit.

Perhaps Vanya is right in her thinking that I am more ts than tv, probably so, but I really don't think that is why I have need to pass. The gender test would dissagree as well, with questions like, "If you knew that you could never pass as a woman, would you still want to have SRS?". My answer to that question is no, but that is not the answer that a true ts would give.

Anyway, let it lay. It gets us nowhere to argue over such things and certainly does not help pull us together.

I really wish I had been born female, thats just not the way things are though. Doesn't mean I can't wear panties though. :happy:

[Sejd]

Dear Sophie
You have put yourself at great exposure and we all benefit from your serious attemt to pass. The thing is that it also comes with a lot of feed back to you. I think you should go lightly on whaever people write about your threads. Just be who your are. You have every right as anyone else to do and say what you want to in this forum. We all love and appreciate your effort. At least I do.
Love
Sejd:love:

[Julogden]

I wish it to remain a great forum for encouragement in all areas of what we do, and if someone announces that they have been out and passed 110%, then It would be nice not to hear in other threads that, they (people who claim to pass) probably did not, they are just deluding themselves, or other comments that would suggest the feeling of passing is over-rated, and to some it is.



This is not meant to be nasty or mean, but as you said, you opened this can of worms, so I'm chipping in my opinion, as I may be one of the people you're complaining about. This is intended to be constructive criticism, so please take it that way, as I do NOT dislike you, and have truly enjoyed reading about your experiences.

That said, sounds like it's time for a reality check dear.

In the future, when you post photos or links to your videos, do you just want encouragement, or do you want honest opinions of how passable you are?

If your estimation of your ability to pass is based on people here encouraging you, then you're making a mistake.

As I've said before (maybe in these forums, don't remember), just because you go out in public and aren't hassled doesn't mean you're passing. It most likely means that you're being accepted, which, in my opinion, is better than passing.

I've met lots of CD's/TV's/whatever label you like in my many years of being in contact with the gender community, and the vast majority of us are not passable (definitely includes me too), and that is NOT criticism, simply an honest evaluation.

I certainly applaud you for going out in public, will happily encourage you to continue doing that, and will defend your right to do so, but don't go getting all superior just because you haven't met any rude people yet while out in public.

Carol

[oztallulah]

Sophie, My view on your thoughts:

:2c: I too would like to think I would pass, that I could get to the point of being passable, to actually venture forth into the cold wicked world and be seen as a woman. I would revel in it. I would love it to the extreme. It would be 'supreme'

Just one thing is missing - the intestinal fortitude to actually get out there.

We are what we are, and go where we want to go with this need. WE are like water, we will always find our own level.:2c:

[Deena]

I can only add that I dress because that is who I am. I present and "they" accept or "they" don't accept. I present myself as a woman because that is part of me. My experience is that "they", the clerks, the TriEss friends, the teenie boppers, the whoever, pretty much accept who I am whether I pass or not. A TriEss gal friend of mine once told me that "emulation is the highest form of flattery" and that really struck a bell with me. So I try to emulate the GG's and bring out that part of me that is femme as best I can. I love the fact that after many years of stiffling my femme side, I can at my old age finally say (however good or bad), that world here is Deena and I love you all.

Hugs, Deena

[Sophie Haworth]

Sophie, don't think that no one feels the same as you as far as passing is concerned. Personaly, before I go out, I walk out into the sun's light and look at my face in a mirror, if I don't see a woman, I don't go out. If I did get stares and people looking at me funny when I was out I would stop going out.

That is just the way it is for me, I don't know how to explain it to anyone. For me, passing is imperative. I have no desire to go out and be seen as a man in womens clothing. I do have a desire to go out and be seen as a woman. It's that simple, and if people think I'm obsessed or over the line because I am that way, well honestly, it does not bother me a bit.

Perhaps Vanya is right in her thinking that I am more ts than tv, probably so, but I really don't think that is why I have need to pass. The gender test would dissagree as well, with questions like, "If you knew that you could never pass as a woman, would you still want to have SRS?". My answer to that question is no, but that is not the answer that a true ts would give.

Anyway, let it lay. It gets us nowhere to argue over such things and certainly does not help pull us together.

I really wish I had been born female, thats just not the way things are though. Doesn't mean I can't wear panties though. :happy:

Jennaie. Thanks, this could be Sophie talking, I will check, check and check again before going out, and if I spot a man in the mirror, I will not go out, in fact I will get changed back into male mode and get on with something else in life.

Passing for me is the goal and if I dont, then just wearing womens clothing does little else for me.

Sophie.

[Nigella]

Who are we trying to please, ourselves or the wider world.

Personally I do what pleases me. I wear female clothing 24/7, beit a skirt and blouse or trousers a t shirt. Yesterday I had to pop into town for an hour or so, so what did I wear?

What I was comfortable in, a skirt and blouse, took my handbag, and wore a pair of sandals. Dont wear a wig cos I let my own hair grow but the best for me, and I suppose the worse for some, NO MAKE-UP.

Did I care, not a fig, I was comfortable, and if you look around you a lot of GGs do the same. I passed simple as that, Why? because I was me and that is who I present all the time.

Please yourself and not others.

[Sophie Haworth]

This is not meant to be nasty or mean, but as you said, you opened this can of worms, so I'm chipping in my opinion, as I may be one of the people you're complaining about. This is intended to be constructive criticism, so please take it that way, as I do NOT dislike you, and have truly enjoyed reading about your experiences.

That said, sounds like it's time for a reality check dear.

In the future, when you post photos or links to your videos, do you just want encouragement, or do you want honest opinions of how passable you are?

If your estimation of your ability to pass is based on people here encouraging you, then you're making a mistake.

As I've said before (maybe in these forums, don't remember), just because you go out in public and aren't hassled doesn't mean you're passing. It most likely means that you're being accepted, which, in my opinion, is better than passing.

I've met lots of CD's/TV's/whatever label you like in my many years of being in contact with the gender community, and the vast majority of us are not passable (definitely includes me too), and that is NOT criticism, simply an honest evaluation.

I certainly applaud you for going out in public, will happily encourage you to continue doing that, and will defend your right to do so, but don't go getting all superior just because you haven't met any rude people yet while out in public.

Carol

Carol.

Thanks for the post, I am glad to say no one has been nasty, or even unkind in all the replies, and I read this as it is intended.

Please do not think I am getting all superior, I would class myself the least of all of us in this forum, and by no means better than anyone.

If I come across as superior, then I will say I am genuinely sorry. Please do not mistake my excitement when out as anything else but that.

I do not class myself as someone who can go out and pass easily, and you could well be right, maybe I am not passing and have been fortunate not run into any problems, but there is only one problem that worries me, and that is not passing. If I am read, then that is the end of it, the "spell" has been broken and I may not dress again for literally years. My last 4 attempts at passing (as far as I know) have been OK, so that is why I am still dressing and still trying and let me add enjoying it very much.

How can I enjoy going out with such fear? I have no idea.

I do so value comments, the one I dread would go like this "Sophie, sorry, but give up trying to pass, you just cant cut it"

I do read the comments, some are cute and nice, and some constructive and helpful.



In the future, when you post photos or links to your videos, do you just want encouragement, or do you want honest opinions of how passable you are?

If your estimation of your ability to pass is based on people here encouraging you, then you're making a mistake.

The answer to the honest opinions to photos etc would be yes, If people think that I am not passable, then, there are better things in life I can spend my time and of course money on.

I think the next picture posts I will ask, or perhaps I can start saving now for my place in a retirement home for CDs who thought they could pass.:titanic:

Sophie.

[Calliope]

[...]I almost do not wish to use the word passing now, perhaps change it to convincing?


Who is it you intend to convince?


Yourself?
(Cool - self-actualization is another word for CD!)

Or some dude walkin' down the street?
(Why the hell bother?)




[...] just because you go out in public and aren't hassled doesn't mean you're passing. It most likely means that you're being accepted, which, in my opinion, is better than passing.


[Emphasis added.]

[Julogden]

Carol.

...snipped....

If I am read, then that is the end of it, the "spell" has been broken and I may not dress again for literally years. My last 4 attempts at passing (as far as I know) have been OK, so that is why I am still dressing and still trying and let me add enjoying it very much.

...snipped...

The answer to the honest opinions to photos etc would be yes, If people think that I am not passable, then, there are better things in life I can spend my time and of course money on.

I think the next picture posts I will ask, or perhaps I can start saving now for my place in a retirement home for CDs who thought they could pass.:titanic:

Sophie.
Hi again Sophie,

Why on earth would you quit dressing if you were to decide that you aren't passable?

You've stated in a past posting that you've been trying to pass in public since you were 13, but have been read as male all of your life when you've gone out, so being read hasn't stopped you from going out again in the past, so why should it now?

Carol

[Sky]

If I am read, then that is the end of it, the "spell" has been broken and I may not dress again for literally years.

Sophie, as I'm sure you read many times in this forum, many beautiful girls have been read -if only because of one silly damn little detail- throughout their lives. And you are going to give up the first time? Pardon my bluntness but if you are so insecure then you are not ready for public exposure. Accept yourself for what you are and then decide if you still want to go out -read or not. And please note I am not the bravest at all: not too long ago I decided to stop going out because I didn't like how I looked (simply too old for this). But I went out for a long time, and still I always knew I could be read at short distance. Very few privileged girls can pass on close up inspection.


I do so value comments, the one I dread would go like this "Sophie, sorry, but give up trying to pass, you just cant cut it"


The answer to the honest opinions to photos etc would be yes, If people think that I am not passable, then, there are better things in life I can spend my time and of course money on.

You do know these two paragraphs are conflicting, right? You want honesty but with a pinch of sugar... I always thought honesty can be brutal...

Again, my humble opinion is, you need less feedback from us (or anybody else for that matter) and more work at building self-confidence. Go out, look at people in their faces, ask where do they keep the low cut thongs -works even better if you are in a bank- and if you're read, so be it. You will survive.

[Sophie Haworth]

Hi again Sophie,

Why on earth would you quit dressing if you were to decide that you aren't passable?

You've stated in a past posting that you've been trying to pass in public since you were 13, but have been read as male all of your life when you've gone out, so being read hasn't stopped you from going out again in the past, so why should it now?

Carol

Day Tripper and Carol.

There are a small number of us who do dress to pass, that is our lot and the main reason for it. For a period of time we are a woman, and if someone sees me for what I really am then the fantasy? is shattered, and perhaps you are correct Day Tripper, I am also trying to convince myself. Its not the clothes, its every tiny detail.

Yet I am still very much a man and have no intention of becoming a woman, some contradiction.

I can see from most of the posts this burning desire to pass is very difficult to comprehend, much in the same way I think that some people find it very difficult to comprehend why a man would wear women's clothing anyway.

I am sure I will never be able to quit dressing, but when I am read, it kills the desire so much so that all the fun goes out of it, it is all very pointless.

I will add here also it is in the times when I have been read and knocked back into male mode that even I find it hard to understand why men dress up as women, but when that desire returns and I make all the attempts to pass again, I understand why, just sheer pleasure that it hard to describe.

After a period of time the desire starts to return, it may just be a girl I see, or a very attractive TV or TS that I spot and off I go again, but the aim is the same, I will try 110% to pass.

Sophie.

[Julogden]

Day Tripper and Carol.

There are a small number of us who do dress to pass, that is our lot and the main reason for it. For a period of time we are a woman, and if someone sees me for what I really am then the fantasy? is shattered, and perhaps you are correct Day Tripper, I am also trying to convince myself. Its not the clothes, its every tiny detail.

Yet I am still very much a man and have no intention of becoming a woman, some contradiction.

I can see from most of the posts this burning desire to pass is very difficult to comprehend, much in the same way I think that some people find it very difficult to comprehend why a man would wear women's clothing anyway.

I am sure I will never be able to quit dressing, but when I am read, it kills the desire so much so that all the fun goes out of it, it is all very pointless.

I will add here also it is in the times when I have been read and knocked back into male mode that even I find it hard to understand why men dress up as women, but when that desire returns and I make all the attempts to pass again, I understand why, just sheer pleasure that it hard to describe.

After a period of time the desire starts to return, it may just be a girl I see, or a very attractive TV or TS that I spot and off I go again, but the aim is the same, I will try 110% to pass.

Sophie.
Hi again,

OK, I think I've finally grasped your point of view.

I sincerely hope that you succeed in doing what makes you happy, but I also sincerely hope that you learn to dress as you like without letting the reactions of strangers control you, that's something that we are all working on doing when we go out in public.:2c:

Carol:hugs:

[Marla S]

I am sure I will never be able to quit dressing, but when I am read, it kills the desire so much so that all the fun goes out of it, it is all very pointless.
I had a similar experience. The day when I really tried hard to become at least passable and I faild in my eyes, has been the day when I quitted CDing for 2 or 3 years, hated myself, and thought how silly it is for a man to wear women's labeled clothes.
Finally I came to the conclusion that the fun of it is being myself and not to mimic an image I expect to be accepted by the society.
Since I am quite happy with my CDing because I don't have to prove anybody anything and feel why a male like me likes dressing.
Just a Story.

[Tina Dixon]

I know I have been trying to send the word have fun a lot lattly but I know some are trying to be a woman and not just a dresser, my self I dress for fun but it did consume me at one time where I thought I might be more than a dresser, would I pass? Probley not, I'm way to big, people look at women that are 6 foot 3 in flats, but when I dress I do try my best with make up and looks and if you go out in the world dressed yes you need to pass as best as possible so it is a must, but if your in the closet or like some in the garage it's not a big deal, so do your best and try and pass.

[Calliope]

There are a small number of us who do dress to pass, that is our lot and the main reason for it.

No disrespect Sophie, but what I cannot wrap my head around is that your self-actualization requires the participation of everyone on the street. I mean, society (much of which is comprised of idiots) has you in its grip and, even though I don't really know you, I'd just love to see you sprout your wings and fly above the crowd.

[Janailene]

When I was a teenager I could pass easily. Now it is much more difficult.