Lack of Understanding

[Marla S]

Hi all over there!

Just a (two) question(s) out of curiosity.

From which end of the gender-spectrum you feel to get less understanding: GMs or GGs ? Does their sexual orientation make a difference ?

[Kieron Andrew]

i have had more GMs accept me than GGs, GGs just see me as a butch lesbian they dont get it, i would say sexual orientation plays a part as it is mainly lesbians that have shunned me for wanting to transition

[Tamara Croft]

i have had more GMs accept me than GGs, GGs just see me as a butch lesbian they dont get it, i would say sexual orientation plays a part as it is mainly lesbians that have shunned me for wanting to transitionWell those GG's need glasses, I think you look like a guy, a cute one too ;)

[Kieron Andrew]

Well those GG's need glasses, I think you look like a guy, a cute one too ;)trouble is not everyone looks from the neck up like you do lol, and do see very obviously i have a female chest still :(, lesbians just say wtf do i want to be a guy for, they dont get its a need not a want!, GMs tend to want to listen and learn to reason so they get :)

[kittypw GG]

Awe Kieron I think that you look like a dude too. I have to admit that people are not to up to date on the topic of gender identity. I should not be so surprised that lesbian women would put you down for identifying male because some are just outright radical and really hate men. Have you ever been to oregon. I think that is the lesbian capital of the world. A lot of them are radical feminists and have no room for men and can't believe that a women would want to be one. It is sad that you even have to educate the lesbian population I mean they of all people should understand perseucation and prejudice. Sheesh.

[Kieron Andrew]

incidentially Kitty if we talk about sexual orientation gay men havent a problem with it lol, i would say most of my friend group is made up of TVs/TSs/gay men, and the gay men just say to me, watch out when i have the right parts they might fancy me lol, tough though cos i am a straight man with a partner lmao

[CaptLex]

Hi all over there!

Just a (two) question(s) out of curiosity.

From which end of the gender-spectrum you feel to get less understanding: GMs or GGs ? Does their sexual orientation make a difference ?
Hey, Marla, thanks for the visit. If I had known you were coming, I would have baked some cookies or something.

That's a good question. Like Kieron, it has also been my experience that lesbians usually don't get it, unfortunately. I've known some (who date FtMs) and are more open and accepting, but generally, as a community, that doesn't seem to be the case.

I would say I get about equal understanding and misunderstanding from straight men and women, although some have a problem getting the issue of sexual orientation. Gay men on the other hand, seem to be the most accepting, even if some of them have a ton of questions and misinformation.

[Kieron Andrew]

gay men just like the size of my packy lmao (joke)

[CaptLex]

gay men just like the size of my packy lmao (joke)
I'll bet you're very popular with the boys . . . :tongueout

[Kieron Andrew]

I'll bet you're very popular with the boys . . . :tongueout
shame its not the boys i want eh :tongueout

[CaptLex]

shame its not the boys i want eh :tongueout
Just pass them along to me - you know how I feel about English lads. :heehee:

[mistunderstood]

Not sure how to answer your questions but I do have my therapist confused on this. I am big supporter of womens lib yet I need to be a guy. Go figure.

[Kimberley]

Not sure how to answer your questions but I do have my therapist confused on this. I am big supporter of womens lib yet I need to be a guy. Go figure.

*************8
Aaron, why would you be confused by this? I'm no fan of Germaine Greer, but there are a lot of other VERY significant women's rights activists, Gloria Steinham and Betty Friedan (recently deceased) come immediately to mind.

I dont think of women's lib as gender specific but rather as people specific in that we discriminate based on gender and with us the binary gender ideal. Think more of it as a generality relating to equality for all people not just the female gender.

Betty Friedan took this approach and got creamed by the militant feminists for it but in the long run she was proved right.

I think this is what we are all fighting for is it not? Equality in all things?

Just my :2c: worth.

:hugs:
Kimberley

[noname]

I'm guessing GG get the most crap from GG, and GM will get the most crap from GM. I will say it's probably safer for GG than GM out there.

[Marla S]

Thanks a lot Kieron !!!


Hey, Marla, thanks for the visit. If I had known you were coming, I would have baked some cookies or something.
No problem. The Hey will do. Thanks :D


Not sure how to answer your questions but I do have my therapist confused on this. I am big supporter of womens lib yet I need to be a guy. Go figure.
Well from my point of view I am neither astonished that your therapist is confused nor that you are a supporter of womens lib.
This bears more logic than contradiction for me.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

Hey, Marla, thanks for the visit. If I had known you were coming, I would have baked some cookies or something.

Duuude, get with the program. Proper guy etiquette is beer and nachos.

:D


That's a good question. Like Kieron, it has also been my experience that lesbians usually don't get it, unfortunately. I've known some (who date FtMs) and are more open and accepting, but generally, as a community, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Sadly, this column (http://www.sovo.com/2006/9-1/view/columns/vanasco.cfm) provides a good example of what the Capt'n is talking about. I do get the sense there's some misandry involved -- particularly with the writer, who says she's got no problem with MTF TSs:


I understand why a man would want to be a woman. Women are wonderful! Of course men would want to be women!

It breaks my heart, though, when women formerly identified as lesbians become men. Why is that?

Part of it must be that when men become women, they are giving up all the privileges they formerly had. When women become men, they seem to get everything — male privilege in the mainstream world, plus the understanding that they are really part of the women’s community....

Some people — I’m among them — worry that the trans movement is encouraging our most masculine women to abandon their female bodies for male ones. We worry that instead of fighting a world culture that discourages women from being strong and masculine, they simply give up and decide to join, well, “The Man.”

She just doesn't get it... <sigh>

[Marla S]

She just doesn't get it... <sigh>
Indeed. A bit scary, though.


I think this is what we are all fighting for is it not? Equality in all things?
That's neither possible nor desirable, and should not be the goal IMO.
Rather equal respect for all "privileges" and desires.

[Lisa Golightly]

I've had crap from both sexes and persuasions. Prejudice is some times found in the most unexpected places. Of my accepting friends I'd say they were 50/50.

[Kieron Andrew]

I've had crap from both sexes and persuasions. Prejudice is some times found in the most unexpected places. Of my accepting friends I'd say they were 50/50.
ahhhh but you're not FTM :p

[Lisa Golightly]

ahhhh but you're not FTM :p

Sorry Angel... I didn't spot that one... I'll get me coat :)

[Kieron Andrew]

Sorry Angel... I didn't spot that one... I'll get me coat :):hugs::love:

[JenniferMint]

Speaking as a non-FTM looking at FTMs (I'm a MTF):

Wanting chest surgery, I understand. Breasts just get in the way, so if you don't think you look cuter from having them, there's no reason to have them.

Wanting to stop menstruation, I'd understand too. In fact, were I born as a girl, I'd want to do that even if I was cisgendered---I don't want to have children, and periods are messy.

Wanting facial hair, I don't understand. Shaving is a pain, and it scratches the face of others who get intimate with you.

Wanting a penis, I don't understand. I used to hate mine for getting in the way all the time (now, not so much, since my testicles were removed and I don't get all those spontaneous erections anymore). I suppose a penis could give you pleasure when having sexual intercourse, but a vagina can do that too.

(I'm sexually attracted to girls, but I'd consider having a relationship with a non-op FTM who doesn't act overly macho)

[Marla S]

@Jennifer you're makeing the very mistake IMO.
You judge understandability from your own individual, practical point of view.

What has to be understood is that people feel the way they feel and act accordingly. That's not judgable, but has to be respected.

The practical aspect of beards, breast etc. is probably the one that is considered the last. They have a very high symbolic and emotional value.

[Kieron Andrew]

@Jennifer you're makeing the very mistake IMO.
You judge understandability from your own individual, practical point of view.

What has to be understood is that people feel the way they feel and act accordingly. That's not judgable, but has to be respected.

The practical aspect of beards, breast etc. is probably the one that is considered the last. They have a very high symbolic and emotional value.i could not have put it better myself thank you marla

[Kate Simmons]

Just pass them along to me - you know how I feel about English lads. :heehee:Hmm, Don't forget about your cabin boy Eric, Hon.:happy: Ericka Kay

[CaptLex]

@Jennifer you're makeing the very mistake IMO.
You judge understandability from your own individual, practical point of view.

What has to be understood is that people feel the way they feel and act accordingly. That's not judgable, but has to be respected.

The practical aspect of beards, breast etc. is probably the one that is considered the last. They have a very high symbolic and emotional value.
:yt: I tip my hat to you, Marla. You hit the nail on the head. Talk about understanding. :koc:


I will say it's probably safer for GG than GM out there.
Well, maybe safer (depending on where you are), but still not safe.


Duuude, get with the program. Proper guy etiquette is beer and nachos.
Hey, now you're talkin'! I was just thinking about something other than rum for a change. :heehee:


Hmm, Don't forget about your cabin boy Eric, Hon.
Can't help it, Ericka, I have a weakness for British boys - must be the accent. :D

[Kieron Andrew]

Can't help it, Ericka, I have a weakness for British boys - must be the accent. :Druns and hides from capt

[CaptLex]

runs and hides from capt
:lol2:

[lahr]

OK i'm not gay but i'm not homo phobic either. I have two male friends who cross dress and they are accepting but we dont share our secrets. My wife, Sister in law and as of late my female neighbor know of my limited CDing. Our friendship is great and we have had many good laughs together. I love looking like a girl in front of a GG but thats where I draw the line. Whats Next?

[Abraxas]

Hrm. I haven't found a problem with anybody accepting me, really . . . I guess I just happen to be lucky in finding friends who are really relaxed about stuff in general.
The only person who's really had much of a problem is one of my guy friends who is gay. He's accepting, but a bit uncomfortable and doesn't really 'get' it. He doesn't call my by my male name-- which is fine by me, considering he knew me long before I started using it. I understand that-- same reason I don't make my family call me Ben. They're just used to calling me by my given name and would find it difficult to adjust.