How to tell someone they dont pass:

[USNguyNskirt]

Ok, for those of you who know me, you know I dont try to pass. But I have several CD friends who DO try to pass. However there is a couple of them that are DEFINITELY guys. They have some crazy notion that people cant see through their disguise. Is there a polite way to tell them that they don't pass? Or is it just a subject I should not approach and just let them blindly think they do pass?I'm not asking to be a jerk, mainly for safety reasons. I, as a guy in a skirt, am a lot more cautious about where I go and who I go with when dressed. You wont find me walking down a dark alley by myself. That being said, my friends, dont worry about this anymore than a GG would because they think they pass.Anyone who looks at them could obviously tell they are a guy, so I am worried for their safety. Any advice would be much appreciated!

[Jenna1561]

That's a difficult situation to be in. As a crossdresser who wants to pass. I truly appreciate any and all observations and criticisms relating to my appearance. I want to know what stands out and says "Guy" or "Not a Woman" and any suggestions as to how I might improve.

I applaud your concern for their safety and if they are truly at risk because they don't pass , yet frequent locations where being read could be dangerous, then you owe it to them to tell them as best you can.

If however, they are reasonably safe from physical harm, perhaps offering suggestions on what they can do to improve their appearance is the way to go. Maybe, if you offer advice, they might ask for an honest appraisal, then you could be open with them. I know you don't want to hurt them, but if they are out and about presenting as women, then they need to know how others perceive them.

That's my 2 cents. I'd want to know what others honestly think.


Jenna

[Robin Leigh]

I have several CD friends who DO try to pass. However there is a couple of them that are DEFINITELY guys. They have some crazy notion that people cant see through their disguise. Is there a polite way to tell them that they don't pass?
Probably not. And if the Pink Fog is strong enough, they won't believe you anyway.


Or is it just a subject I should not approach and just let them blindly think they do pass?I'm not asking to be a jerk, mainly for safety reasons.
Let them know that there is a chance that they might be read, and if read by the wrong person in the wrong place, the result could be fatal. Get them to read a few reports of recent TG hate crimes, that should give them food for thought. At this point, I feel obliged to mention Gwen Araujo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwen_Araujo). :sad:


I, as a guy in a skirt, am a lot more cautious about where I go and who I go with when dressed. You wont find me walking down a dark alley by myself. That being said, my friends, dont worry about this anymore than a GG would because they think they pass.

GGs generally don't go walking down dark alleys by themselves. And CDs who are trying to pass shouldn't attract attention by doing things that GGs don't do.

Robin

[Karren H]

I'd just tell them straight out that they need to work on......fill in the blank......because it isn't very fem or lady like.... If you don't tell them then one of these days they could find themselves........getting told by someone or a group of someones that doesn't care for her feelings like you do...

Love Karren

[tekla west]

I sure don't know any GGs who go down dark alleys by themselves.

[Snookums]

I have never been able to pass,so I no longer try,some people are lucky to be able to do that,if I could pass,I'd get a Betty Boop hairdo,make up.But as a woman at this point,I'd be a beast,you can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear.I wish I could pass.

[Paula Thomas]

Snookums - You may not be able to "...make a silk purse out of a pigs ear", but you can make a nice pair of pigskin gloves.

As I said in a different thread - go to a fastfood restaurant or large store, and you will see most of the people that show their pictures here as their avitar (or, at least, someone who looks very must like them).

You will probably find some that look amazingly like you.

Once you do, try wearing the same type of clothes/makeup as they do, then improve it over time as you gain more confidence.

Even if you start out looking "butch", it is a start.

[kathy gg]

Well the first rule of passing....might be "if one wants to appear as a gg, don't go down dark alleys!"

Seriously..it is super sweet of you to be honest, as their friend.

I think that politeness in ways which completely disregard the truth usually do more harm than good in the long run. And if they truly are real friends, they will value that you had courage to be honest.

I also think you can find a way to be honest that does not come off as spiteful or mean. But if this friend{s} still get hurt even after you used kid gloves with your remarks...well you can at least know inside that you tried to help. good luck, because it seems to me that most people don't want to hear constructive criticism {this goes for some gg's too}.

[Sweet Marie]

One sure way is to take a photo of the person. This worked for me early on and showed me I was in no way passing. Then the real work began.

My best friend is my Pastor and he know I crossdress. I walked up to him in Barnes & Noble and said "Hello". His reply was "I'm sorry Miss, do I know you?"

That said it all.


Marie


Some humans aren't human. Some humans aren't kind......John Prine

[Sky]

However there is a couple of them that are DEFINITELY guys. They have some crazy notion that people cant see through their disguise. Is there a polite way to tell them that they don't pass?

Some people want to hear the truth, some don't. If they think they look like gg's they will get mad at you if you tell them otherwise. It's a pity. Myself I clearly prefer tough honesty over sugary self delusion, but if some people don't want honesty and they don't hurt anybody, let them live their dream...

[Jennaie]

I only know how I would react if someone were to say to me, you may think your passing, but I am going to tell you that it is very obvious that you are a man. I would say, I need you to tell me exactly what it is that is giving me away. Then I would change it and call the person who was so kind to be honest with me and ask them to come over and re-evaluate me.

If someone is not smart enough to take the truth about something like this, then they really must not care one way or the other.

My 2 cents.

[LadyLiz GG]

Well, I hear what you are saying. But, I think it depends on whether you are trying to look the part for otherss or trying to please yourself. I am a GG, and my boyfriend is a cd. Often times when we go out he goes with a skort and strappy sandals. The rest is totally "him". It does bring on some surprised looks from people, but who cares....we always have fun.

[Barb Valentine]

Just tell them "you're a good friend but I don't want to see you got hurt"

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

It's a tough question because there's a lot of variables.

As mentioned, if the pink fog is too thick it won't really matter what you say or how many pictures you show them. And sometimes people ask the question, not really wanting an honest answer.

Sometimes I will be direct -- for example, I was out at a dinner with a newbie who just couldn't keep her knees together while wearing a short skirt. (She kind of did the "guy sprawl" thing.) So I mentioned that to her and then kept nudging her leg whenever she did it again.

It is possible to give some advice in ways that don't seem like criticism. For example, saying something like you discovered a new trick for how not to trowel on foundation, or walk in a more feminine manner; or saying how nice their eyes would like with a different shadow of eye shadow (instead of "porn star blue"), etc.

As far as the safety aspects, if there doing stuff like walking down dark alleys, then yeah, you may need to use a 2x4 to get their attention about why that's not a good idea.

[Honey Lynn]

My Momma always said "If ya can't say somethin nice don't say nuthin at all" She also was fond of mentioning a box of chocolates..... somethin about me being an odd nougat that people tasted but always put back in the box?:eek:

[AmberTG]

Life is like a box of chocolates, you don't know what you're going to get. I think I got the weird shaped one with the funky tasting liquid center.:D

[Scotty]

Wow dark allies......or is that alley's.

anyway, well this may sound bold but I bought a 38 special snub nose and it fits right nice in my purse but you still won't see me going down a dark alley!!!

OK Tha'ts way OT.....FYI before anyone asks, I am a firearms instructor and know how to use it and know when NOT to be in a position to have to.......

Anyway, um, well some things are just better left unsaid, if they are having fun and it's not hurting them, why rain on their parade? :happy:

[Robin Leigh]

I certainly don't want to spoil anyone's fantasy or undermine their confidence. However, USNguyNskirt is worried for their safety, so I assume that some real danger exists.

USNguyNskirt, are these non-passing CD friends also in the military?

Robin

[Kate Simmons]

I never attempt to lead anyone to believe I'm a woman or delude myself into thinking I am. I just let people draw their own conclusions as to what I am/look like. When they ask my name, I tell them Ericka. Ball is in their "court" after that. You have to be honest with yourself really. If some aren't honest and really think they do "pass" when they don't, I think the best idea I've seen here so far is to take a picture and show it to them. Sometimes what we see in the mirror and what other people see are two different things. They didn't call it the "magic mirror on the wall" in Snow White for nothing. What the queen saw was an attractive woman but she was really an old hag inside. I'm not saying our sisters are hags but it's very easy to deceive one's self in this way. Navy guy is right to be concerned about his friends. Hopefully, they will be okay. Ericka Kay