Feeling like a woman

[Sweet Marie]

I am one who beleives that no matter how feminine one looks, how much one "acts" like a woman, how many hormones one takes, or how much surgery one has; we will never really know what it is to truly feel like a woman.

My reason for saying this is I beleive the difference between man and woman is not that definitive. How does it feel to be a woman? If you ask a woman that question. Most answer."it's just me; I've been this way all my life. It's who I am". As a CD'er I know what it is to put the clothes, the makeup, the shoes, the wig on....all that. To me I feel like a woman. But do I really know what it feels like to be a woman? I don't think I can. I can only come as close as my feelings and emotions will allow.

I think a TS is probably much closer to feeling like a woman.

This is just some thoughts I had on "the brain" this morning. I may be way off in my thinking on this subject. I would appreciate your comments.

BTW, I was out grocery shopping yesterday all dolled up in my feminity when this really gorgeous GG walked by(I mean really hot). I turned around and casually followed her down the isle pretending to be
shopping all the while admiring her beauty.
My brain was in no way feeling like a womans. Have a great day.


Marie

[gerdaberlin]

boy oh boy are you courageous. apparently you easily seem to pass, which in the case of sub 30 passerby gg's does not apply to sadly, (started to go out too late, I guess, and not able to disguise my manly hands..

[lilly lou]

Hi Marie

Not sure if it's my place to comment but I found your train of thought facinating - as a woman I probably only really feel like one (conciously) when I do all the things you do, i.e put on something fabulous, cover up all the imperfections, add a bit of lippy and some skyscraper heels and then I'm a babe. I think perhaps our perception of what it is to be fe/male has been so twisted by the media we only feel that way when we conform to the ideal that's been constructed for us.

On the other hand when I felt most Female was when I was pregnant / post birth, ironically when I couldn't have been less glamourous! :heehee:

LL x

[Tree GG]

My reason for saying this is I beleive the difference between man and woman is not that definitive. How does it feel to be a woman? If you ask a woman that question. Most answer."it's just me; I've been this way all my life. It's who I am".

Marie

That's about it. PMS sucks, carrying & delivering a child is flippin' awesome (if uncomfortable at times), but other than that, it's just what I decide to be at any given time.


BTW, I was out grocery shopping yesterday all dolled up in my feminity when this really gorgeous GG walked by(I mean really hot). I turned around and casually followed her down the isle pretending to be
shopping all the while admiring her beauty.
My brain was in no way feeling like a womans.Marie

Thanks for posting that. As an evolving CD's SO, it's good to hear his words echoed by other CDers.

[geri-tg.]

My wife and I were talking about this very subject two days ago.After answering many questions she had for and her answwering my questions we both agreed that no matter how I dress I will never know what it feels like to be a woman. Geri

[Robin Leigh]

Hi Marie,


I am one who beleives that no matter how feminine one looks, how much one "acts" like a woman, how many hormones one takes, or how much surgery one has; we will never really know what it is to truly feel like a woman.

I agree. That's why you & I are CD but not TS. :)



I think a TS is probably much closer to feeling like a woman.


Hmmm. Since we can't read minds, we don't know what a "typical" woman or man feels, but I bet plenty of the TS girls here identify as being women. Many of them grew up thinking of themselves as truly female inside and find it difficult to think of themselves as a man.

We have at least one member here who was born intersexed. How would your theory apply to them?

Robin

[Sweet Marie]

I really don't think I can put my mind into someone elses. I think intersexed would be a really difficult position to be in as it is my understanding that it is usually up to the parents as advised by a Doctor as to which sex a child is to be raised as. This can be a devistating decision and often an incorrect one.

I'm just glad that CDing is all I have to deal with. I was raised on a farm back in the fifties in rural North Carolina and for the longest time I thought I was the only one in the entire world like me. Not until my second marriage and access to the internet have I fully realized that I'm not so strange after all. Even though, as my wife says, your're a Bob Dylan and John Prine fan; so you must have a few screws lose. Oh well; I love Bob and John.

Marie

[Sweet Marie]

Hi Gerdaberlin,

I do seem to pass reasonably well. I'm 59 years old, dress my age, have wigs with light streaks of grey, wear mostly flats since I'm 5"10 1/2" tall.
My wigs are short and easy to smile, I use a medium beige foundation over derma blend (to cover the beard area only). The hands are no big issue, just shave your arms and tops of your hands, apply a lotion and a good manicure with color. There's a lot more to it but I bet you can do it. Fear is the biggest drawback.

I'm not bragging here. I'm sure there are times I am read and don't know it but as a friend once said "if they have to guess, you're doing OK". I also have the right to wear what I want and go where I want. I go to stores, restaurants, movies, etc. I stay away from the bars and streets.

Good luck.


Marie

[Angie G]

I don't know but if it is the dressing part'' man I feel like a woman'' :hugs:
Angie

[~Kitty GG~]

I am one who beleives that no matter how feminine one looks, how much one "acts" like a woman, how many hormones one takes, or how much surgery one has; we will never really know what it is to truly feel like a woman.
I think a TS is probably much closer to feeling like a woman.

Marie

I don't think you understand TS.. The whole point is that they do feel like women. or in the case of F2M.. they feel like men.

And it isn't how they look, how they act, what hormones or how much surgery.

~:star:Kitty:star:~

[Robin Leigh]

I really don't think I can put my mind into someone elses. I think intersexed would be a really difficult position to be in as it is my understanding that it is usually up to the parents as advised by a Doctor as to which sex a child is to be raised as. This can be a devistating decision and often an incorrect one.

Most intersex babies born in recent decades have been made into girls, since phalloplasty is still unsatisfactory. Fortunately, less intersex babies are subjected to cosmetic genitalia modification these days. It wasn't so long ago that the standard way to treat an intersex birth was as some sort of terrible medical problem, and it was thought that intersex babies could be moulded into the desired sex (& gender), following the flawed teachings of Dr John Money. :(


for the longest time I thought I was the only one in the entire world like me. Not until my second marriage and access to the internet have I fully realized that I'm not so strange after all.

Luckily, before my teens I stumbled onto a copy of "Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex (But Were Afraid to Ask)" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everything_You_Always_Wanted_to_Know_About_Sex_(Bu t_Were_Afraid_to_Ask)), by Dr. David Reuben, which the groovy neighbours had loaned to my more conservative parents. Of course it treated crossdressing purely as a fetish, but at least I knew I wasn't alone, and CDing seemed a lot nicer than some of the other fetishes & perversions the book mentioned. :)

:hugs:

Robin

[KarenSusan]

On the other hand when I felt most Female was when I was pregnant / post birth, ironically when I couldn't have been less glamourous! :heehee:

LL x

I think this sums it up. Genetic males can only asymptotically approach this.

[CaptLex]

I don't think you understand TS.. The whole point is that they do feel like women. or in the case of F2M.. they feel like men.

And it isn't how they look, how they act, what hormones or how much surgery.

~:star:Kitty:star:~
I agree with you, Kitty. I would also like to add that not all FtMs identify as TS, and some are somewhere else on the trans-masculine spectrum. However, the ones that do consider themselves TS (that I've talked to) usually say that they consider themselves transmen rather than just men (like a subset of that group) and the difference is our experiences as women make us a different type of men. Not better or worse necessarily (although that's debatable), but different.

I wonder if MtF TS or transwomen feel that way too, or if it's a different thing.

[Sandra]

I don't think you understand TS.. The whole point is that they do feel like women. or in the case of F2M.. they feel like men.

And it isn't how they look, how they act, what hormones or how much surgery.

~:star:Kitty:star:~

True most Cds/Tvs just want to look like a woman but not feel like one, there is a big difference.

[vbcdgrl]

I totally agree, Marie. We can never know what it is to "be" a woman. We can do all the stuff, up to and including SRS, be we'll never really be women. We'll never know the ups and downs of emotions, the experience of childbirth and being a mom, menopause, female diseases. We just kinda dabble in the fun part. This is why I say, all you CDers who have supportive GG SOs, count your blessings!!!!!!

Vikki

[~Dee~]

ok .. so im TS..
so... where would my feelings be, in your little scale?

i mean, if im all wrong and im not really feeling like a woman does .. and yet i also dont feel like a guy does either ... so i guess im in limbo?

i feel female ... thats why im TS .. thats the point of being TS to me.. because i identify as female.
i feel female .. and i dont really see how anyone else can come up and say that i cant..
i can bet you that all the f2m guys here are a hell of a lot more guy-ish in their thinking and feeling than i am.

if you come up and ask me that question "How does it feel to be a woman?" ill give you the exact same answer.. its who i am, its always been who i am and its just how i am inside.
you can go off and get as much surgery as you want, and thats not going to change how you feel inside.

but making such a blanket comment about other peoples feelings .. i find is pretty insulting really. do we want to say something about how gay guys could never really love a man as well as a woman could ? .. or something equally as stupid?

some people have come here for support and to offer support to those of us who Do feel female, saying that we dont or cant.. kinda puts an end to all that supportive stuff.

you might follow girls down the shopping isles ..
some of us just have groceries to get.

[Deborah]

True most Cds/Tvs just want to look like a woman but not feel like one, there is a big difference.

....and the fact that we'd just love to chop it off and be done with it :heehee:

[~Kitty GG~]

I totally agree, Marie. We can never know what it is to "be" a woman. We can do all the stuff, up to and including SRS, be we'll never really be women. We'll never know the ups and downs of emotions, the experience of childbirth and being a mom, menopause, female diseases. We just kinda dabble in the fun part. This is why I say, all you CDers who have supportive GG SOs, count your blessings!!!!!!

Vikki

Lots of women will never experience childbirth, motherhood, female diseases..

If a woman were to never choose to have children, or couldn't have them.. if she didn't make it to the age of menopause.. if she never had any female diseases.. would she not still be a woman?

Why do so many define being a woman by these things?

And even if a woman does experience those things.. they're not usually what her whole life is about.

I wonder what makes a man a man using these same rules for definition..

Do transmen never truly know what its like to be a man cuz they won't have prostrate cancer.. never were fathers.. etc?

~:star:Kitty:star:~

[Eileen]

Marie most people feel like their body! I our case we are different! Our mind, no matter what we are wearing is female. Yes we can still look at a pretty girl and have a some what male reaction, because we have been conditioned to do so! Now when I see a really pretty female, I am looking a her to learn how she dresses, does her makeup and how she moves!

Eileen

[Sky]

I our case we are different! Our mind, no matter what we are wearing is female.

What? :rolleyes:


Yes we can still look at a pretty girl and have a some what male reaction, because we have been conditioned to do so!

Conditioned???? I didn't know our genitalia was the result of "conditioning"! :lol:

[Eugenie]

Complex subject...

Not being a TS myself I can't speak about the feeling of being a women that a TS might experience.

I think that "feeling like a woman" can be very strong though in some CDs too, yet that feeling is at best what we, still being genetic males, think genetic women feel about being a woman. We will never know what genetic women feel.

I would push the logic to say that even if medical science, in a remote future, would allow a transformation that would permit a full transformation of a male into a female, including the ability to become pregnant and have children (Science fiction allow any hypothesis) it would remain that this person wouldn't have experienced the early life of a young girl, then of a teenage girl befor that "magical operation", so that part of their memories would not be part of her "feeling like a woman".

For me I often think that I feel like I imagin a woman feels, but I know deep down that this is but an illusion. However do I have a choice? Further ore I enjoy that illusion and sometimes even believe in it...

:hugs:
Eugenie
PS: some of the readers might want to have a look at the concept of qualia: When others are confronted to the same sensory stimulations as we do, do these stimulations feel the same for them as they feel for us?

[Sweet Marie]

Thank you all for your thoughts and comments. This is why we have such a great diverse group of people here. I learn new things everyday and am grateful for that.

Right now I just feel like I ate to much of my wife's pot roasts and want to lie down in my recliner and take a snooze. A guy thing; I think.

Marie

[GG Vanya]

I am one who beleives that no matter how feminine one looks, how much one "acts" like a woman, how many hormones one takes, or how much surgery one has; we will never really know what it is to truly feel like a woman.

My reason for saying this is I beleive the difference between man and woman is not that definitive. How does it feel to be a woman? If you ask a woman that question. Most answer."it's just me; I've been this way all my life. It's who I am". As a CD'er I know what it is to put the clothes, the makeup, the shoes, the wig on....all that. To me I feel like a woman. But do I really know what it feels like to be a woman? I don't think I can. I can only come as close as my feelings and emotions will allow.

I think a TS is probably much closer to feeling like a woman.

This is just some thoughts I had on "the brain" this morning. I may be way off in my thinking on this subject. I would appreciate your comments.

BTW, I was out grocery shopping yesterday all dolled up in my feminity when this really gorgeous GG walked by(I mean really hot). I turned around and casually followed her down the isle pretending to be
shopping all the while admiring her beauty.
My brain was in no way feeling like a womans. Have a great day.


Marie

This was the "intent" of my "to look or to be" poll. I wasn't brave enough to put it in the words you have. :o

I think transgenderism defies the old adage: if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it's a duck!

The way a woman "feels" is directly linked to her entire life experience, from birth to present age. A female at birth experiences life totally different from that of a male child.

Think about this...and this speaks to the "conditioning axpect". Girls are put in pink, given dolls at very early ages, have little tea parties, are taught to cook by Mom, being taught to be nurturers. Boys are put in blue, given play guns, taught to play football, baseball (and yes, I realize some girls play these sports as well). They go on hunting and/or fishing trips with Dad, being taught to be the provider.

I could go outside right now and glue feathers all over myself, stick a fake bill on my nose, and waddle around quacking, but I guarantee you, I'd have no concept of what it is to BE a duck.

[Marla S]

Lots of women will never experience childbirth, motherhood, female diseases..

If a woman were to never choose to have children, or couldn't have them.. if she didn't make it to the age of menopause.. if she never had any female diseases.. would she not still be a woman?

Why do so many define being a woman by these things?

And even if a woman does experience those things.. they're not usually what her whole life is about.

I wonder what makes a man a man using these same rules for definition..

Do transmen never truly know what its like to be a man cuz they won't have prostrate cancer.. never were fathers.. etc?

~:star:Kitty:star:~
I think you left out a crucial point, at least in my way of thinking.
The woman is already there before it comes to childbirth. Hasn't it a huge impact on a growing child to know that it could become mother and doesn't this influence a lot the way one feels? I think girls realize that quite early due to socialisation, as boys realize very early that it is up to the girls to give birth. Another huge impact should be the first menstrual period. I think it is no incident that it is said "Now you aren't a girl anymore, but became a woman" and I think this moment is quite scary and intimate for a girl and forms the personality and feeling to be a woman. Comparable for boys is maybe the first ejaculation. Those experiences should have a big impact on ones personality (either scared, proud, happy or even disgusted).
All this is excluded for TSs and definetly for CDs.
What's left is predominately the gender role, to feel like being a woman (man) (pure subjective) and to be accepted as a woman, which is up to others and even depends on the people you meet. Oneself is only able to adapt as close as possible to a female (male) appearence, making it more easy for others and yourself to accept you as a woman (man) and to play that part.

[EricaCD]

Speaking ONLY for myself, the feminine part of my personality is about 1 millimeter deep. When dressed, I think I manage maybe another millimeter of depth. Makeup, mannerisms and movement do not make a woman and my interest really stops at changing the outward presentation.

Erica

[Charleen]

You know what? I think that it makes no difference. We are who we are. When we get past the difference in plumbing, do we really know? I have met GGs that have had way more what are looked upon as male attributes than me, my late wife among them. I was always more femme than she was and vica-verca. Is it what we like in life? No. I have the plumbing, but have no interest in sports, hunting, fishing, home repair, or the like. Yet a lot of those with the other plumbing enjoy those things. So that ain't it either.
I can never know how anyone else thinks. Even if they tell me, well people have been known to lie occasionally. It's been mentioned a few times on the site that we all have both sets of genes. Good enough for me.
What makes who we are is not important to me. For me, I know that I'm Lily, and that goes a long way beyond what I wear, though wearing woman's clothing is more comfortable mentally as well as physically, but even in drab, I'm Lily. I'm also beyond labels. Don't care. All I know is that since allowing my feminity to show, I am a better person. Love and xxxx, Lily

[Bobbie cd]

I could go outside right now and glue feathers all over myself, stick a fake bill on my nose, and waddle around quacking, but I guarantee you, I'd have no concept of what it is to BE a duck.

Vanya, I agree generally with the rest of what you posted, but
don't feel really terribly qualified to say a lot about it.

On the other hand, I'd give $50 to see the above! :D

[Rachel Morley]

I'm so glad we're talking about this because IMO so many cd's think that being "a woman" is about clothes and makeup and acting differently to that of a man. :rolleyes:

How can any of us possibly know what it's like to be a real woman? Have we ever experienced having periods every month? Or childbirth? Have we ever encountered the "glass ceiling" at work? Or the oppressive-ness of men being sexual predators? If a man got stalked by a woman he'd think it was a compliment!

My point is, even though we think there are some pretty wonderful things about what we perceive life to be like as a woman, lets not lose sight of that fact that despite being a woman in modern times being better than in the past, it's still not a bed of roses.

[Lessa Lynn Young]

In my humble or not so humble opinion, how can anyone disqualify anothers feelings. Granted there is a difference in the plumbing, we all can accept that, but beyond that each of us has our own reality based on personal exprience and insight based on how we see and veiw things growing up and learning to be who we are.

What qualifies someone to be GF or GM outside of the plumbing. In all honesty nothing. Simple enough I think. On that basis we can agree that there is only one qualifier. Now can a GM ever feel fem? Can a GF ever feel masculine? I think so yes and also no, how you may ask, through the same labels that keep us confined and conditioned to the way of life we embrace based on each individuals life experience to this point in time. Certain traits are considered to be either Fem or Mas. Examples of this include compassion,nurturing,tenderness (Fem) and rage,strength(not just physical) and aggression (Mas). Can anyone of us in here say we have never felt any of those traits within ourselves? Ask yourself honestly and then remember that next time you feel someone doesn't qualify.

Hopefully the above covered the potential for the Yes side, so now on to the No version. Now if I came in here one morning and claimed I feel like Karren/Vanya/Missy/Di/Capt Lex/Keiron everyone would think I slipped my slip, or rolled my rocker and I would have to agree. Why, simply put, because I have not lived their lives nor am I in touch with or sharing their soul. My experience may be similar but it is mine and therefore different, as is each of yours, so therefore I cannot be you. Based on biology I can't be fem and fem can't be mas. So then what are we? Read on to see my view.

Based on traits/labels we are all Fem/Mas and based on bilogy we are either Fem or Mas. In the in end the facts only point to one thing, biologically we are human and until we see each other as humans with invidual traits that are truly neither fem or mas then the ceilings will exist, wars will be fought and feelings will be crushed. As a group we are well on our way to changing these things and while universal humaness may not occur in our lifetime it has to start somewhere. As a whole we can help create a world were humans are humans and the division is biological and ultimately doesn't matter. Is the need of one to be the other biological? I believe so though I have no proof, not even science or medicine have the proof although it may one day come. At this time only God/dess knows for sure if you are so inclined to believe, if not, then no one does but someone is searching.

If you are still with me then WOW. Thank you for reading this far and I pray that something made sense to you and if not ask or state your views. I will read/listen and possibly counter. :2c: :2c: :2c: ...........

:hugs: :love:

[Kate Simmons]

Actually, I don't think anyone "feels" like a woman, even women. I think everyone just feels like themself. There is no class or course available to teach anyone what it feels like to be "something". It's just mostly how someone is brought up and Nature. Ericka Kay

[Tessa Wire]

Marie most people feel like their body! I our case we are different! Our mind, no matter what we are wearing is female. Yes we can still look at a pretty girl and have a some what male reaction, because we have been conditioned to do so! Now when I see a really pretty female, I am looking a her to learn how she dresses, does her makeup and how she moves!

Eileen


Great job at explaining this Eileen, I will have to agree with what you are saying, as that is what I have been doing. In doing so, I have been able to have a bit of insight as to what to ware, and how to look, as well as to walk and talk.


As always Loves :hugs: