TURMOIL -But Must Move Ahead

[Joy Carter]

I'm a young fifty seven I have been married since I was twenty to someone who I love more than life it self. However having been CD all my life and her not knowing when we married has been hard on her. I have tried to get her to talk but she gets emotional and is down for the rest of the day just thinking about it. Me I live with this feeling day in and day out I need to be myself and that is to dress and go out among others like me. So I have bought all I need to dress for the occasion and she knew what was going to happen because I told her before hand but she couldn't even speak about it. She just went into the closed mode and then two months latter after she knew she went ballistic and well I let her vent but again she didn't want to talk about it. This is not fair to her or myself to handle it this way. She told me that if she saw anything she would cut it up. She is more afraid about what others might say than how I feel. I'm not doing it my town, in fact I'm going to another city and getting a hotel room and starting from there. I have a friend who I met on the forum and we think alike and it's just going to be two gurls on the town having fun for a day. So here again I put it to you the forum to tell me what you think +?

[Barb Valentine]

I know it won't be easy until you can resolve this
You have your "Needs" she have to relies this
And she has the feeling that she has to deal with
But until she's ready to talk about it
All I can say is go slow you can't push it
But she have to relies that it not going away
:hugs:
Barb

[GG Vanya]

I'm a young fifty seven I have been married since I was twenty to someone who I love more than life it self. However having been CD all my life and her not knowing when we married has been hard on her. I have tried to get her to talk but she gets emotional and is down for the rest of the day just thinking about it. Me I live with this feeling day in and day out I need to be myself and that is to dress and go out among others like me. So I have bought all I need to dress for the occasion and she knew what was going to happen because I told her before hand but she couldn't even speak about it. She just went into the closed mode and then two months latter after she knew she went ballistic and well I let her vent but again she didn't want to talk about it. This is not fair to her or myself to handle it this way. She told me that if she saw anything she would cut it up. She is more afraid about what others might say than how I feel. I'm not doing it my town, in fact I'm going to another city and getting a hotel room and starting from there. I have a friend who I met on the forum and we think alike and it's just going to be two gurls on the town having fun for a day. So here again I put it to you the forum to tell me what you think +?


Joy,

Not to be mean, but you contradict the first statement I highlighted. You are engaging in things you know your wife can't accept, realizing this is damaging the marriage. The title to your thread seems to indicate that you need to be Joy more than being with the person you "love more than life its self"???

As to the second comment I highlighted: Must you go out and be among others like you to be yourself? I think any wife who was having acceptance issues would "go ballistic" at the prospect of her husband dressing and going out with others without her. I struggle with understanding the need to have others see you in public, as for me and mine (Trudi) and as I understand it, crossdressing is a very private and "personal" expression of one's femininity. +?

[Joy Carter]

Joy,

Not to be mean, but you contradict the first statement I highlighted. You are engaging in things you know your wife can't accept, realizing this is damaging the marriage. The title to your thread seems to indicate that you need to be Joy more than your marriage?

As to the second comment I highlighted: Must you go out and be among others like you to be yourself? I think any wife who was having acceptance issues would "go ballistic" at the prospect of her husband dressing and going out with others without her. I struggle with understanding the need to have others see you in public, as for me and mine (Trudi) and as I understand it, cross dressing is a very private and "personal" expression of one's femininity. +?


No Kiddo your not being mean. We love each other very much but when it comes to my dual nature it's silence or fireworks on her part. So I have kept in a very small place and it bothers me on a daily basis. I wonder if I'm mental because of this. I'm not TS just CD as far as a personal expression that is what I'm striving for by going out in public. please don't worry about it costing us our marriage she and I always end out talks with reaffirmation of our love.

[Karen Johnson]

In this day and age it seems that it is okay to do whatever we want regardless of how it affects others. It is our right. I don't always agree with that.

As tough as it may seem, you have to figure what is more important - your wants and needs or your wife's.

If you really love her more than life itself you wouldn't cause her such anguish.

Open and honest talk in a marriage is always a good thing, along with being respectful of one another. My wife is 99% okay with my crossdressing, but there is still that tiny part of it that, for whatever reason, threatens her.
Before you cross a line you may not be able to step back over you might want to closely examine your priorities.

It might not seem fair, but sometimes the only place you'll find "fair" is in one of those German towns in October.

[Julie York]

I think you're making the situation more volatile than it should be. If you can't understand her point of view, you're going to keep blindly treading on her feelings and then getting upset yourself by her reaction.

What you are doing...from her point of view...is putting both you and her at risk of public shame and ridicule. She must be scared out of her mind poor lass. And as a consequence she must be furious about your lack of regard for your own welfare and hers...which is why she goes into the 'silent' treatment. She's obviously deeply hurt.

If you genuinely want to resolve this problem you need to address the issues closer to home before going 'public'. If she does not understand your desires even in a safe closed environment then just imagine how she is interpretting her man "meeting with another man to dress in women's clothing".

You need to somehow make it "safe" for her by giving her the information she needs to understand the subject, but also....more importantly, you need to address her fears and defuse them in order for her to feel less scared of what you might do behind her back.

Good luck.

[Sheila]

Joy,
how long has your wife known about your cding?

Sorry but right at the moment you seem to be in f**k it mode as regards to your wifes acceptance or not level, careful cause there will be a line somewhere and if you cross over it, you may find that you are not welcome back

Jess

[Nigella]

... However having been CD all my life and her not knowing when we married has been hard on her...

Problem No1, you have lied to her from the outset of your relationship, which I have no doubt we all have done, if we did not tell our SO from day one.


...Me I live with this feeling day in and day out ...

And so does your wife, she does not just switch off her feelings, until the next time the "situation" is raised again. She will always have at the back of her mind your CDing.


... So I have bought all I need to dress for the occasion and she knew what was going to happen because I told her before hand but she couldn't even speak about it...

Without considering her feelings, you have prepared for your trip. Spent money from (I assume) the family budget all without consulting her?


...She is more afraid about what others might say than how I feel...

Has she said this to you, is this just about this particular trip, or is it about the whole CDing?


...I'm not doing it my town, in fact I'm going to another city ...

OK so no-one will see you in your home town, but with all her fears, how will she feel when you go off to some city without her?


... I have a friend who I met on the forum and we think alike and it's just going to be two gurls on the town having fun for a day...

Does your wife know about this, and how do you think she will read it, two men dressed as women together on the town?


..So here again I put it to you the forum to tell me what you think

Well I have done this but to put it bluntly, reading your post has made me :Angry3:

There are two sets of feelings to be considered here, and whilst you may affirm your love for each other, it is not the same as considering each others feelings. By your actions alone, you have said I'm going to do this, no matter what you think.

Marriage is a partnership, and if you both cant agree on something, dont change it, that way there are never any winners and no losers.

[Kate Simmons]

I had this problem Joy, same as you. I finally decided I had to do what I had to do to be comfortable being myself. It's okay and fine to love someone but the love seems conditional when you have to fulfill THEIR idea of who you should be. Although I did not tell my wife when we were married either, I tried to explain to her she got the whole "package" and the person she fell in love with has never changed. That unsettled her somewhat because she feels if she was attracted to someone who was also a woman, she has "lesbian" tendenties. Nothing could be farther than the truth as she is a fine wife and the Mother of my three grown children who all turned out fine. I decided I could no longer live this way though, pretending to be someone I'm really not. When I came "out" 5 years ago, it was the beginning of the end of my family and marriage, even though we are still married, we are apart. She told me to get back together, I have to destroy Ericka but I really cannot live that way as I need both parts of myself. What price happiness? Mine was my wife and family. It's a tough row to hoe and I know exactly where you are coming from. Ericka Kay

[Charleen]

That's why I stayed hidden for 30 years of marriage until she passed last October. I truly did love her more than CDing. Love and xxxx, Lily

[Joy Carter]

Words are so hard sometimes and I don't know what to say.Things can be misunderstood so easily from reader to reader. But no gurls I'm not proceeding with the F--K It attitude. And yes I did tell her I was buying things and about meeting up with the other gurl or should I say gurls now. To put things on hold would only keep me down and depressed. While I do consider her the most important thing in my life. I go through hell knowing there is another side to myself that wants to be out there that wants her to recognize as a viable person. She has always said I was not like other men, gosh ya think ! I have helped her in everything she does. I have backed her nearly 100% in all her endeavors. And yes she has me too but not this. But this is a control thing to me by her. Not talking to me has made it worse. I have tried for five months but she just sits there and says nothing as I tell her how I feel and what I'm doing. I have no fear for us as a couple we have very few issues. As far as spending money it's ours and maybe it was selfish to spend it but I'm a good provider and have worked two jobs all my life to keep the family comfortable. So I feel I can indulge myself once in a while. I have been so happy since April being here and to have finally met in person some one like me. I joke around here and post allot of dumb things but I'm a good person a hard worker and I have been true to my wife all our married life. She had her secrets too and I have forgiven her but this is something she just doesn't want. So do any of us really need this ? So many of here are Cd and do live with that knowledge of what can happen. So why have you stayed with it ? Lucky are those who have an accepting spouse but the others. How do you cope when you know your spouse disapproves ?

[Karen Johnson]

Wow! Most of the issues discussed here are of such a light-hearted nature, and then a bomb like this drops. First, understand that any feedback given that seems to be of a negative nature is only given out of love and a true desire that you find peace with this situation. You are fortunate to have so many caring people with such intimate knowledge of this subject to give their opinions.

My first crossdressing memory comes from when I was 5 or 6, trying on some of my sisters things. It excited me then, even at that young age, and still excites me 40 some odd years later. Still, I wish that I were not this way. It is a passion that burns within me that has caused me much grief.

Your wife may be very scared of this place you go without her. And I mean that figuratively. Perhaps she is afraid that she'll lose you in there.

It all comes down to priorities. What is more important, your needs and wants or hers.

I know this isn't discussed much here, but I'd recommend praying about it. I'm a Christian and believe that Jesus cares about you and will help with any problem you genuinely turn over to Him. The results can be amazing. And don't pray for what you want but what's best for you and your wife.

Your wife sounds like such a wonderful person. Don't get caught up on worldly things and forget how important she is.

[Kate Simmons]

Send her some roses Joy and then take her out for a nice dinner. I don't think it would hurt at this point and sometimes the "little things" mean a lot.:happy: Ericka

[Wire Road]

That's why I stayed hidden for 30 years of marriage until she passed last October. I truly did love her more than CDing. Love and xxxx, Lily
now that's a statement of true love.
it's all about priorities. get your priorities straight.

[Angie G]

If I had to go out with others like me it would not be without my wife along
If it ever came to going out without her I just would not go.
Thats the way it is if you love someone more then life itself. :hugs:
Angie

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Joy

i feel for you and your wife...very very tough to deal with this issue and my first hand experience is that i loved my wife more than anything...i repressed the crossdressing...i simply didnt do ...i fantasized but never dressed(does putting on a pair of pantyhose on a business trip count---i'll have to ask Bill Clinton!!! ) ...anyway this was serious stuff and i am sure you know(and all you girls know!!!!!!!) ..the urge to dress can be overwhelming...

i still repressed it and what i unknowingly did was create a distance in our marraige that i didnt recognize and my wife fell out of love with me...OUCH!! ...so then i came out to her after therapy and lots of discussions about total honesty...i felt if we were gonna make it this had to be dealt with...well i'm sad to say it didnt work out that way..

we are muddling through a fairly amicable divorce and the kids are doing ok, and now i am dressing all the time and i love it.

i feel terrible for my wife because i hid this from her but i also know in my heart that i loved her and really didnt know what crossdressing was really all about so that helps me with the guilt..

on to you!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i take your point at face that you love her...does she love you the same??? because if she does...then i think you need to RIGHT NOW!!! have a huge talk with her....you still have a chance....you have COMPROMISE(i know you feel you've been doing that..but!)...i feel if you do this you are only making your marriage situation worse...its not fair to her or to you...you have to be patient and talk through it and get at least a bit of buy in from her or YOU ARE MAKING THE DECISION TO RISK YOUR MARRIAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!...

i'm giving you tough love here...i have been there and i think i did everything i could but my mistake was to not talk about it....maybe if i had talked to her when she still loved me, we could have come to an arrangement..we have great kids, we are best of friends but marriage is gone...i fear you are heading down this path and you have to be honest with yourself about the decision you are making...

i care about all the girls on this forum and their wives too!!!! i wish you all the strength in the world to be honest with yourself here!!

take care
michele

[Joy Carter]

Wow! Most of the issues discussed here are of such a light-hearted nature, and then a bomb like this drops. First, understand that any feedback given that seems to be of a negative nature is only given out of love and a true desire that you find peace with this situation. You are fortunate to have so many caring people with such intimate knowledge of this subject to give their opinions.

Joy; Welcome to the forum Karen it has been a while but we do get down and dirty from time to time. As for carring people I have not felt this much love except from my wife.

My first crossdressing memory comes from when I was 5 or 6, trying on some of my sisters things. It excited me then, even at that young age, and still excites me 40 some odd years later. Still, I wish that I were not this way. It is a passion that burns within me that has caused me much grief.


Joy; Age three or four, stopped at age thirteen (most start there) what was up with that +? Must have been the hormones LOL. As far as excitement that went along time ago and I grew from there to realize who I am.

Your wife may be very scared of this place you go without her. And I mean that figuratively. Perhaps she is afraid that she'll lose you in there.

Joy; Me I'm a strong person when it comes to alot of things. Sex is not an issue with us. And no I not only live in my home with her my life is her.

It all comes down to priorities. What is more important, your needs and wants or hers.

Joy; Her needs it appears to be the most important not mine. Not to be sarcastic but this is who I am.

I know this isn't discussed much here, but I'd recommend praying about it. I'm a Christian and believe that Jesus cares about you and will help with any problem you genuinely turn over to Him. The results can be amazing. And don't pray for what you want but what's best for you and your wife.

Joy; I'm a Christian too. I have prayed to not be this way. I have prayed for strength and to forget about this other part of me. It has not worked so far.

Your wife sounds like such a wonderful person. Don't get caught up on worldly things and forget how important she is.


Joy; You have no idea how great a woman she is. Our relationship didn't start out so good but grew overtime with work on both our parts. I know how most people look at the male half of the relationship as not caring, selfish and allot of other things but I do care and I'm very giving. I just am so conficted over myself that I can't see how I can ignor who I am.
Note; Don't know what happend but do read all.
Thanks Joy Carter

[sparks]

Good luck Joy. I'm always in your corner if you need to chat. You know I'm always hashing this stuff out myself and you've been there for me. i f I can return the favour please let me know!

SISU
Sparks

[Joy Carter]

Well thanks to one and all for your words of wisdom. And I do mean that not joking around.

Barb, Nigella, Vanya, Ericka, Karen, Lily, Julie, Wire Road, Jess, Angie, Michele and most of all my pal Sparks.

:hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:

We will get through this some how I'm not sure how but it's not impossible. She will be there and so will I. Till the time when she throws that first hand full of dirt on me while I'm in my eternal resting place and she whispers " Ya B******". LOL

[Satrana]

She is more afraid about what others might say than how I feel.

Thats the crucial point for me. Fear drives most SO's rejection of CDs, either fear of public shame, or fear you will turn out gay or go full-time. Since she appears to be unwilling to confront her own fears and discuss this with you, she has effectively given you an ultimatum - either bow to her needs and give up your crossdressing or face the consequences.

I feel for your conflict not to hurt the woman you love so deeply but being grievously disappointed that she refuses to discuss and compromize on this important issue. As you said yourself she has turned this into a control issue, this is not what partners are supposed to do.

There is no easy answer. So long as she refuses to even begin discussions you will not make any headway. She will not just suddenly accept you tomorrow or the next day. She really wants to never accept this at all.

I think proceeding with your crossdressing is probably the only way she is going to possibly realize that it will not disappear the way she wants it too. But you know she is hurting in the process, but then so are you.

The question that will eventually need to be asked is which is more important, her fears or your need to express who you are. Good luck and keep on trying.:hugs:

[Joy Carter]

Thats the crucial point for me. Fear drives most SO's rejection of CDs, either fear of public shame, or fear you will turn out gay or go full-time. Since she appears to be unwilling to confront her own fears and discuss this with you, she has effectively given you an ultimatum - either bow to her needs and give up your cross dressing or face the consequences.

I feel for your conflict not to hurt the woman you love so deeply but being grievously disappointed that she refuses to discuss and compromise on this important issue. As you said yourself she has turned this into a control issue, this is not what partners are supposed to do.

There is no easy answer. So long as she refuses to even begin discussions you will not make any headway. She will not just suddenly accept you tomorrow or the next day. She really wants to never accept this at all.

I think proceeding with your cross dressing is probably the only way she is going to possibly realize that it will not disappear the way she wants it too. But you know she is hurting in the process, but then so are you.

The question that will eventually need to be asked is which is more important, her fears or your need to express who you are. Good luck and keep on trying.:hugs:


Thanks Satrana ! You have no idea the things her and I have been through but it has only served to make our relationship stronger. She blew me away once when she equated my wanting to dress with some of these traumatic events. I felt so sorry for her saying things like that, I failed to see how CD and serious life events were remotely the same.:o But then I'm a Schmuck ! LOL

[miche_miche]

I have been married since I was twenty to someone who I love more than life it self.

Hi Joy,

I believe you!!

Sounds like your wife would love it if you'd stop crossdressing and you'd love it if she'd change her attitude.

Sounds like neither is likely to happen, you both know it, and you're still together.

Sounds like commitment despite the pain.

Sounds like love.

[Joy Carter]

Hi Joy,

I believe you!!

Sounds like your wife would love it if you'd stop crossdressing and you'd love it if she'd change her attitude.

Sounds like neither is likely to happen, you both know it, and you're still together.

Sounds like commitment despite the pain.

Sounds like love.

Ya touch my heart with your comment there Miche. :hugs:

[Satrana]

Joy,

I was reading another thread "Could I be any more confused" and this post from Melissa struck me as being almost identical to your situation and also sums up my feelings on this matter. Hope Melissa does not mind me quoting it here as I think it is very poignant.



I have wrestled with this same issue for 9 years. Talk did not work, counselling did not work, books/articles/websites did not work, offers to connect her with other wives did not work. Finally, I stated I am a cross dresser whether she can accept it or not, I am not ashamed of it even if she is, I will do it whether she wants me to or not. It may seem cold and callous on my part, but in the absence of meaningful dialog the only choices left are not do it (not an option for me), leave or stay and be myself. At this point I have chosen door number three.

I am discrete, I do not do anything that will embarrass her, I dress far away from home. After years of giving her my power and letting her decide if I could do this, after having her not meet me half way I put my foot down, drew a line in the sand and asserted my right to choose.

Now I go out to cross dresser dinners, meetings, week-ends away and meet with other cross dressers. She now accepts that I am a cross dresser and that that will not change. She never asks about any of it and I never tell.

This is not the path that I would have preferred, however, it is the only path that works for us. It started with me drawing a line in the sand, asserting my right to choose and letting her know that whenever she is ready to talk about I will, however, I am no longer waiting for that conversation to happen.

This arrangement works for us. Previously, as long as I caved in and gave her the right to decide I was angry and my health was going down hill. Now I am living my life as me, I am happier and my health has greatly improved.

[donnapink]

I can related to your problem we all wish our wives would just accept our dressing, however you need to really think love not selfishness. I think the fact that you are meeting up with someone to your wife is cheating and she is scared because she loves you. I don't know the answer but I couldn't go away to crossdress especially with someone from the internet in the face of my wife. Think-Love-Act. I hope you can find happiness

[Phoebe Reece]

Joy,
You can only compromise with someone that is also willing to give up something. If you have a SO that refuses to budge an inch on rejection of everything to do with crossdressing, you have to force the issue. There are always consequences to your actions, so you have to choose your battles carefully. You need to tell your wife that you cannot continue without some freedom to crossdress. You should give her some freedom to help choose how that will be accomplished. Ask her if she would be more comfortable if you just did it at home with only her around or if she would feel better with you in some strange city with someone she does not know. But, in the end, let her know that you will be crossdressing one way or another. On that point you should not compromise, or you will be forever miserable and that will ultimately drive a permanent wedge between you and your wife.

[Joy Carter]

Joy,
You can only compromise with someone that is also willing to give up something. If you have a SO that refuses to budge an inch on rejection of everything to do with crossdressing, you have to force the issue. There are always consequences to your actions, so you have to choose your battles carefully. You need to tell your wife that you cannot continue without some freedom to crossdress. You should give her some freedom to help choose how that will be accomplished. Ask her if she would be more comfortable if you just did it at home with only her around or if she would feel better with you in some strange city with someone she does not know. But, in the end, let her know that you will be crossdressing one way or another. On that point you should not compromise, or you will be forever miserable and that will ultimately drive a permanent wedge between you and your wife.

Thanks Phoebe. You and the others who have posted here are the reasons why I put this thread up, I want the others who are in such doubt about what to do can address the situation better than we have done. Your words are appreciated verymuch as is the others. On a personal side note I don't see that wedge lasting for long we depend too much on each other.

Thanks Again :hugs:

[Joy Carter]

Donna Satrana thanks for your post. And Donna I will try and contact melissa to give her my support. :hugs: