Testosterone hinders Laser hair removal?

[Jenn2716]

So I called this Spa place the other day that does Laser Hair removal. I ask the lady who answered the phone if they perform laser hair removal on men's beards. She tells me that she is not sure, but she'll ask the laser specialist. Insert hold music here.
So she comes back and says that the laser specialist is with a client but she will call me back next week to discuss. I said ok, thank you very much.
Tuesday arrives and I get a call from the laser specialist. She says, yes we can do your beard, but it will probably not be very effective. Maybe 50% reduction in hair. The reason for this, she says is that the testosterone in my body may cause more hair to grow, thereby thwarting the effectiveness of the treatment. But if I wanted to go ahead with treatment, she recommended I come in for a consultation ($30- which is fine) and that sessions could last from 15 - 45 minutes every six weeks for probably 6-7 sessions. She quotes me $75 for a 15 minute session. :eek:
I knew it would expense, but that just seems ridiculous. I told her I'd think about it and call her to book a consultation if I decided to go ahead with treatment.

2 Questions:

1. Of all the material I've read on laser hair removal, I've never read anything on testosterone hampering its effectiveness. Hair colour, skin colour. Yes, but testosterone. I thought folicles were folicles. Can testosterone be an obsticle in laser hair removal on the face?

2. Is $75 for 15 minutes reasonable? I know prices vary from state-state, country-country. But wow, I never thought it would be that pricey.

Needless to say, I'm going to be calling around to a few other places. Perhaps this "Spa" (which looks like a glorified dentist's office) is hiking the prices to fit their image?

[Katrina]

If you want to reliably remove facial hair, you really need to do electrolysis. That said, $75 for 15 minutes is not that bad. Laser goes pretty fast, but I've heard horror stories about people having 17 sessions to remove facial hair. BTW, facial hair is supposed to be the most difficult to remove.

[JenniferMint]

I've heard reports that there's lots of dormant hair follicles in your beard, and in some men, they might not start growing until age 30 (testosterone activates them), and while they're not activated, neither laser nor electrolysis can kill them.

I don't know how true that is---I had my testicles removed by my 3rd laser treatment.

[plastiqgirl]

I have never heard that testosterone hinders laser hair removal, but I would imagine that it's quite possible, and also a possibility that there are dormant hair follicles on a man's face. As for the price of the sessions, 75 is actually quite reasonable. I have female friends who have paid much higher prices per session than 75 dollars, although usually in beautiful spas that couldn't really be described as a "glorified dentist's office." (lol) Electrolysis, I believe, is a better bet in terms of permanence.
best of luck in whatever you decide. :)
Lex

[joanlynn28]

I don't testosterone will have an effect on the laser treatment. I have already have had two sessions with my laser specialist and see quite a reduction in facial hair. I may need just three more sessions to get the rest of those facial hairs. But I am also going to have finish the remaining gray hairs with electrolosys. The rates you were quited seem reasonable, myself I have been paying $200 a session which lasts just over an hour. I do have declining testosterone levels becuase of my age and I am starting hormone treatments in the near future. I think the biggest factor affecting the amount of hair and hair growth is the weather, facial hair tends to grow quicker in warmer weather.:2c:

[GypsyKaren]

I just signed up myself and was told it was permanent, period. I did a lot of research on my own and saw nothing about testosterone causing a problem. Personally, I would be leery of anyplace that takes a week to give you an answer to any question. It will take me 5 sessions to completely take care of my face and neck at $200 per session.

Karen

[Rachel Morley]

I'm currently in the process of having my laser treatments. My second one is next week. During my consultation my wife Marla asked the laser nurse every question you could possibly imagine about laser hair removal. Now admittedly, she didn't specifically ask about how testosterone might effect things, but the laser nurse said that it was semi permenant and that it's all about transfer of heat down the shaft of the hair to "zap" the root. That's why black hair works better because black absorbs the heat. The only time she even mentioned hormones was when she said that becasue we have over 30,00 hair follicles per square inch of skin (most of which are dormant) later on in life, stress "can" trigger a homonal release that "may" subsequently encourage new hair growth from those dormant follicles, but the one's that got successfully zapped are dead!

Here's a link on the main points about laser hair removal. Nowhere does it mention testosterone.

http://www.reddingdermatology.com/laserhairremoval.htm

[plastiqgirl]

Personally, I would be leery of anyplace that takes a week to give you an answer to any question. Karen

That is SUCH a good point. I would look for a second opinion.
Lex

[Satrana]

Testosterone not only activates dormant follicles but it also promotes the repair of damaged follicles as well. So unless you kill the follicle off completely then over time the hair will regrow and eventually get back to a normal diameter.

Beard is the toughest hair of all to laser off. The usual 6 sessions which are advertised are for female body hair not men's beard. Although you may temporarily believe that all the hairs are being killed during your sessions, once you stop your sessions you will see a few months afterwards that your have a lot of hair remaining. You need a minimum of 12 sessions for beard removal unless you are satisfied with just a beard reduction.

[jessikarbt]

I've had the laser hair removal done from april 05 to april 06 once per month. The entire face cost me 1500.00 and I had about 80% hair removal success. the remaining hair is mainly grey or white in color which the laser cannot penetrate. It only takes about 15-20 minutes for the entire face each session so 75.00 a session is reasonable if it's a reputable clinic. i am fair skinned with darker blonde /brown hair so I had pretty good results. Mainly I tweeze stray hairs daily and only need to shave the white/gray hairs located mainly on my neck area. if you're a good candidate the results are awesome.
Here is the site and location I used with great info...

http://www.novacosmeticcenter.com/

[Stephenie S]

Dear Jenni,

I think the laser tech was partly right and partly wrong.

Men's beards are very difficult to remove. The hair growth is dense and the hair roots are thick. This is just the way it is. Some mens' beards are thinner, some hairs are thinner. We are all different.

What the tech was probably trying to say refers to the fact that only 30 - 50% of our beard hairs are growing out at any one time. The rest are dormant. So when you remove or kill the hair that is growing, you are only getting 30 - 50% of the hairs on your face. The next growth cycle will produce more hairs that will have to be treated at that time. This is why people who have all their facial hair removed at one time experience what they may think of as failure. It isn't failure, it's just that new hairs are growing from the dormant folicles. Testosterone is, of course, the hormone that triggers hair growth in men so in that sense the tech was right in saying that testosterone causes regrowth. But it doesn't really interfere with laser treatment.

If you are a good candidate for laser, (if you have light skin and dark hair) you may experience a total removal of all facial hair in several sessions. However, you will need to go back again as your next growth cycle matures to do it again. This may happen several times. This is also true for what ever method you use, laser or electrolysis.

And Angel, we do not have 30,000 hair follicles per sqaure inch. It's probably closer to 30,000 total on the face. I asked my electrologist this question and she did not know, but a rough estimate came close to the figures I have given you. Acording to one source I found on the web, one sqaure centmeter of skin contains about 10 hair follicles. So maybe one square inch has 50 or so? I don't know. Neither of these figures is making a lot of sense to me. I do know that 30,000 follicle per inch is way high. If I get what I consider to be an acurate measure on this I will let you know.

Steph

[AmberTG]

I've been doing electrolysis sense April, I have too much grey in my beard that would have to be done that way anyway so I might as well do the whole thing with electrolysis. For me, it'll take a while because I can only afford 2 hours per month. I am seeing small results now, though, sure wish I could afford more time.
The local laser place quoted me a price of $200 per session, but I don't know how much time that would buy.

[Rachel Morley]

And Angel, we do not have 30,000 hair follicles per sqaure inch. It's probably closer to 30,000 total on the face. I asked my electrologist this question and she did not know, but a rough estimate came close to the figures I have given you. Acording to one source I found on the web, one sqaure centmeter of skin contains about 10 hair follicles. So maybe one square inch has 50 or so? I don't know. Neither of these figures is making a lot of sense to me. I do know that 30,000 follicle per inch is way high. If I get what I consider to be an acurate measure on this I will let you know.
Hi Steph, I am wrong about the 30,000 per square inch. It's about 2500 per square inch apparently. Here's a couple of copy and pastes from some reputable websites explaining it. I stand corrected!

Laser For Less http://www.laserforless.com/how.html
"There can be as many as 2,500 hair follicles per square inch, however less than 100 hairs are actually actively growing. The hairs that are inactive are “waiting” to be activated by hormones. This is why many people experience heightened amounts of hair during puberty, and less amounts of hair in some areas as we grow older, such as the head, and more in other areas, such as the ears or back. Our genetic makeup tells our body when to produce more or less hormones, thus affecting our hair growth. Hair must be active to be treated by laser; this is why treating a young child before puberty will not prevent future hair growth during puberty, it will only kill the hair they have actively growing at that time."

Davis Laser Center http://www.davislaser.com/laserAndHair.htm
"Humans have more hair follicles per square inch of skin than most higher primates, including chimpanzees and gorillas. Because most of this hair is vellus hair, it usually is not visible to the naked eye; for instance, the forehead has more hair follicles than any other part of the body."

[Katrina]

Another point...the hairs on your beard are rooted somewhat deeper than other hairs on your body. Laser supposedly only penetrates down to a certain depth (depending on the wavelength). You need to get the energy down to the root of the hair during the growth cycle. That is why you only kill/mame some percentage (around 20%) each session. You also need to wait a certain amount of time for the next group of hairs to activate and start growing before your next session. That is why they probably quoted you between 6-13 weeks between sessions. Electro works permanently because the needle is directed at the root (also only on the hairs that are currently growing). Laser only gets the ones that are not too deep for the beam to penetrate. That is why people typically have to do cleanup with electrolysis after a set of laser sessions. Of course, everybody is different, so your hair depths, color, and growth cycle can vary making your results different from other people's.

I've had laser on my "glutes". Five sessions each spaced about 10 weeks apart. The hair there was typically dark and of course the skin was very light there. Its been about 6 months since my last session and I have fine, light colored hair growing there, but the dark, thick, longish hairs are gone. I expect some regrowth over time as my body repairs the damaged follicles, but I'm hoping that those don't come back thick.

[Diane CHILDS]

Hi

The most effective laser on male beard growth, is the Lightsheer system.

If you can find a clinic that uses it (in the UK you have to travel to London, Birmingham, Manchester or Liverpool)....6 to 7 treatments spaced 8 to 10 weeks apart Will clear over 95% of your dark hair. The average cost in the UK is about £90 for each of the 30min sessions required.

Most of the other lasers (ruby, alexandrite etc.) do not heat the base of beard follicle sufficiently to always kill it completely,mainly because the hair is so deeply rooted. During my first three treatments most of the hairs were ejected during the laser session, so much heat is generated at the root they are literally blown out! With most other lasers you are usually told to wait up to 2 weeks for the dead hair to shed.

Be warned....Lightsheer hurts like hell but works.

I will send you a PM telling you where you can find more information.
Love Di

[Stephenie S]

Thanks Angel,

Steph

[carend_99]

First, I've not heard about the testosterone angle. Not a doctor so couldn't say either way. However, as far as Laser Hair, I tried it a few times. $75 isn't that bad, imho. I paid $175 per treatment for my whole face. My wife only let me go 3 times before she said enough is enough. I do have a gurlfriend that went through the whole 6-7 sessions and has great results, but you do have to go back 1-2 times per year for follow-up treatments (this may be the testosterone factor she was talking about???) Anyway, I have another gurlfriend that has gone through with the entire electrolysis regimen with awesome results. I'm going for my first electro visit on Friday. It's about $20 bucks for 15 mins and goes up from there. An hour appt. is $65. Between the two, I'd definitely go with electro, as it is considered (and the FDA approves of this) to be the only permanent hair removal regimen. The only problem is that it is a slower process and probably more expensive.

[Satrana]

Most of the other lasers (ruby, alexandrite etc.) do not heat the base of beard follicle sufficiently to always kill it completely,mainly because the hair is so deeply rooted. During my first three treatments most of the hairs were ejected during the laser session, so much heat is generated at the root they are literally blown out! With most other lasers you are usually told to wait up to 2 weeks for the dead hair to shed.


Generating enough heat is the key to the laser system. One reason why beard growth is often hard to treat is because the operator is using laser power settings too low to kill the deeper roots i.e. they are using typical settings they adopt for shallower rooted body hair. Once you have had a couple of sessions to clear the majority of your beard, you should ensure that each subsequent session has gradually higher power settings.

If you have fair skin then you should be aiming to reach 40Joules/cm2 for maximum effectiveness. If your operator has not treated beards before then they will most likely use insufficient power settings to do a good job.

[Satrana]

That is why they probably quoted you between 6-13 weeks between sessions.

Another good point - operators who treat you every 4 weeks are just taking money off you! Treatments 4 weeks apart are not giving you value for money as these treatments are too close together to allow many hairs to grow between treatments . Once every two months is the best practice and will ensure that the laser catches the most hairs.

The four weekly schedule is great for the operator as their patients believe that the laser is doing a better job than it actually is because fewer hairs will regrow after just 4 weeks so the laser appears to be very effective. On the other hand a 9 weekly schedule will allow you to more accurately judge the progress of the treatments as this provides sufficient time for damaged hairs to grow and become visible.

Of course if money is not an issue than a 4 weekly schedule will work fine as you can keep on doing this until all the hairs are indeed killed. But if money is an issue then have treatments spread 2 months apart unless you are too impatient to wait this long!

[Diane CHILDS]

Another good point - operators who treat you every 4 weeks are just taking money off you! Treatments 4 weeks apart are not giving you value for money as these treatments are too close together to allow many hairs to grow between treatments . Once every two months is the best practice and will ensure that the laser catches the most hairs.

The four weekly schedule is great for the operator as their patients believe that the laser is doing a better job than it actually is because fewer hairs will regrow after just 4 weeks so the laser appears to be very effective. On the other hand a 9 weekly schedule will allow you to more accurately judge the progress of the treatments as this provides sufficient time for damaged hairs to grow and become visible.

Of course if money is not an issue than a 4 weekly schedule will work fine as you can keep on doing this until all the hairs are indeed killed. But if money is an issue then have treatments spread 2 months apart unless you are too impatient to wait this long!

This is spot on!

After 4 weeks the laser will only catch the few hairs that may have been missed in the previous session. It takes from 8 to 12 weeks for follicles that had been in their resting stage to actively start growing so they can be treated.

Di

[Diane CHILDS]

Generating enough heat is the key to the laser system. One reason why beard growth is often hard to treat is because the operator is using laser power settings too low to kill the deeper roots i.e. they are using typical settings they adopt for shallower rooted body hair. Once you have had a couple of sessions to clear the majority of your beard, you should ensure that each subsequent session has gradually higher power settings.

If you have fair skin then you should be aiming to reach 40Joules/cm2 for maximum effectiveness. If your operator has not treated beards before then they will most likely use insufficient power settings to do a good job.

It is not all just down to power settings, the wavelenth has to be adjusted alongside the power settings and each type of laser is different.

When I first had treatment it was with a Ruby laser, the power setting was 38J (I can't remember the wavelength). It didn't give very good results,

When I started on Lightsheer I had 3 test patches one at 34J one at 30J and one at 26J with the wavelength adjusted accordingly. The test patch at 26J hurt most and was most effective.

The wavelength determines how far the laser can penetrate the skin, and is why this type of laser is more effective for male facial hair.

Di

[Jenn2716]

Wow Girls, thanks for all this info. I think I have a better understanding of what laser beard removal is all about. I certainly feel better equipped to tell the technicians what it is I'm looking for and what I should be expecting from them. I'm still checking on some of the local places and haven't had much luck. One place hasn't returned my phone call from 4 days ago and another place I looked up in the phone book had gone out of business when I drove there. Oh, well. The pursuit of a beard free face continues.

Thanks again. I knew I could count on the lovely ladies on these boards.