I want to be accepted as ...

[Marla S]

There is this binary sex system which left its marks within the human culture.
The latter makes a human male a man and a human female a woman.
I think it is not too pessimistic to say that this never will change.
So, to be assigned to a place in this system there are only two options:

To be accepted as man.
To be accepted as woman.

(To be accepted as a person is not really an option, because person is not related to sex or gender.
"I want to be me" isn't an option either, because you can't be named by others as me ;)).

Point is: You have the two named options. Which one you choose for your life.

[ElleCD]

Marla

Voted woman. Done the man thing. Not that keen on it.

Elle
X

[fionasboots]

Well, what did you expect us to say?

I'm not carrying around a suitcase full of womens clothes, shoes, and make-up 'cos I want to be a guy :heehee:

So ... have we got any forms to fill in or was the voting thing enough to be officially accepted as our chosen gender? :tongueout

[kateyliz]

Tough question, but I have to go with woman. aAs Elle said, I've done the man thing, and I'm not impressed. Hugs, Kathy

[Marla S]

Well, what did you expect us to say?

I'm not carrying around a suitcase full of womens clothes, shoes, and make-up 'cos I want to be a guy :heehee:

So ... have we got any forms to fill in or was the voting thing enough to be officially accepted as our chosen gender? :tongueout
I am not quite sure what I expect. That's why I ask.
But I think the question is not so easy to answer as it seems to be.
I. e. it will make a big difference if you are married.
"I want to be accepted as a woman" might not be very acceptable for our SOs, as they "married a man".
"I want to be accepted as a man" nevertheless being feminine might be more acceptable and understandable for our SOs.

[Lisa Golightly]

Point is: You have the two named options. Which one you choose for your life.

Thing is nature has its quirks... I know I'm one of them. I've been in a bit of a wilderness since puberty... somewhere between the two.

If I was to choose which 50% I'd rather be then I'd go for the male 50%. Life seems simpler in that half of the garden.

[Josi]

I have never wanted to "be" a woman. I just want to be accepted as a man who likes his femininity and likes to outwardly express it - as well as inwardly feel it.

[Marla S]

Thing is nature has its quirks...
That's true, but our society (culture) hasn't.
When you style yourself and go out people will "label" you man or woman in the first instance, nothing else. Other adjectives only will be used to refine these major labels in a positive or negative way.
It's the major label assigned to you by other people I am asking for.

[Lisa Golightly]

That's true, but our society (culture) hasn't.
When you style yourself and go out people will "label" you man or woman in the first instance, nothing else. Other adjectives only will be used to refine these major labels in a positive or negative way.
It's the major label assigned to you by other people I am asking for.

When I dressed as a boy people fixated on my breasts and made assumptions about what I was. When I dressed as a girl I was accepted as 'normal'... but I wasn't. My adoption of abnormal clothing made me closer to normality in their social view.

[Tree GG]

When you style yourself and go out people will "label" you man or woman in the first instance, nothing else. Other adjectives only will be used to refine these major labels in a positive or negative way.
It's the major label assigned to you by other people I am asking for.

Still not keen on the black/white binary choices. Republican or Democrat - you can't win. Give me a good ol' wishy washy independent, anyday.

Labels can be hurtful, but also benign - determining who's suppose to open the door, or which bathroom to use (although that gets a little cloudy here, too)

I choose female - at least as long as I'm living in a Western culture.

[Jasmine Ellis]

Yes well this is a hard one.............
Never thought about it, I love the women's clothes more than men's, even the make-up so I do try to look like a woman and I do go out side dressed so yes a woman got to be I think. When going out and about

[Georgina]

Male for me. I like my work, outdoor life and leisure activities too much.It's not my gender I would like to change it's society's perception of maleness. Georgina.

[fionasboots]

I am not quite sure what I expect. That's why I ask.


Fair point :D



But I think the question is not so easy to answer as it seems to be.
I. e. it will make a big difference if you are married.
"I want to be accepted as a woman" might not be very acceptable for our SOs, as they "married a man".


I have exactly that problem, my wife would certainly say that the answer should be "a man" because that's what she wants, which is perfectly understandable particularly as she's struggling with the whole CD thing anyway, having it go away would defintely be what she wants.



"I want to be accepted as a man" nevertheless being feminine might be more acceptable and understandable for our SOs.

True

But you didn't ask that, you asked what would we want to be accepted as, not what our SOs may want.

At this moment in time I would say I want to try the woman approach if I had to choose one or the other because I don't think I make a particularly good man, though I probably don't make a good woman either
:straightface:

So I stand by my choice but I agree it's maybe not as simple a question as I first thought.

[Stephanie Kay]

Marla

Voted woman. Done the man thing. Not that keen on it.

Elle
X

I feel the same way at times, elle! I've had a good life being a man and it's a bit boring!! So now I'd like to try something different!!

Love,
Stephanie

[Christina Nicole]

Even if I were accepted as a woman when dressed as a woman, I -- and many other TG people -- would have other challenges with work, family, and friends. It's probably a simple question and a simple answer for those who are not TG, for those who just, for the lack of a better term, dress-up as part of a fetish, and also for transsexuals. But for those of us in the middle who want to be, but can't be female (or male, as the case may be) I'd think we'd want to be accepted as women when portraying a woman and as a man when dressed as one.

Warmest regards,
Christina Nicole

[secrets]

For me, I do not want to become a woman, all I want is to be a man who can wear what he likes!
#votes man.

[Joy Carter]

Cause I Am A Woman W-O-M-A-N ! LOL Or so my head keeps telling me.:heehee:

[Charleen]

As I'm sitting here all femme at the moment, voted for woman.
Love and xxxx, Lily

[Jessica]

I have never wanted to "be" a woman. I just want to be accepted as a man who likes his femininity and likes to outwardly express it - as well as inwardly feel it.


what she said.............

[Adrienne Heels]

I want to be as feminine as I can

[Elly]

i don't really like the binary system but if i had to choose i'd have to say woman as i feel i lean more naturaly to that side, since starting to live as a woman i no longer bottle my emotions and it makes my wife happier that i'm more emotionaly responsive as a woman than i was as a man...

on a side note when i was flirting with being an androgyne for a year (the whole goth scene is receptive of that) i liked the term bi-gendered, i felt if i had to be labeled it would be something a bit different and totaly in the middle...

[JenniferMint]

Hi! I'm new to this, and I'm a hetrosexual male looking to be accepted as a woman. I sometimes wish I had been born as a woman, but then I would have to go through ALL the downsides, like childbirth, "periods", etc. So I'm glad to be a boy/girl!

If I had been born as a woman, I'd look into surgery to get rid of my periods. Problem solved! :)

[Maria2004]

I chose male, because I was born a biological male, and I will die a biological male, no matter how much HRT I underwent, or succumbed to SRS, since I cannot change my DNA and re-grow myself. Biology is immutable for mammals. If some future archaeologist uncovers my bones in some distant future they will determine I was a male, what they won’t find is the concept of gender identity, which is a purely human social construct for the purposes of controlling our behavior. They won’t be able to chemically extract, that in my heart and in my mind while I briefly existed that I had female thoughts, desires and emotions which I could not comprehend.

[Deidra Cowen]

want to be accepted as none of the above! In other words as a Tranny.

[Maria2004]

want to be accepted as none of the above! In other words as a Tranny.

:happy: Works for me! :hugs:

[sparks]

I'm just me.

[KimberlyS]

be accepted as a feminine and masculine guy that wears a mixture of masculine and feminine clothes.

KimberlyS - CD

[GypsyKaren]

What you want in life and what you get are two different things. It would be real easy to say that I want to be accepted as a woman, but I'm not one, am I? No matter that I believe myself to be one and always have, I'm still a genetic male, and nothing can ever change that.

I just want to be accepted as a person, nothing more and nothing less. If people will do only that then they will see the real me for who and what I am, and that will make me happy.

Karen

[eleventhdr]

Being a male is not what you might think it is trust me I am still one and really do not care very much for it at all!

Jay Suzy!

[Nina UK]

I picked man because all i want to do is to be accepted as a man who enjoys wearing ladies clothing, its as simple as that.:hugs:

[ReginaK]

Where is the choice for neither?

[krisybryant]

I don't mean to rain on the parade. I always enjoy your thought provoking comments, but this sounds more like a question of pronoun preference.
"What would I do if I'm called miss?"

I was thinking about this the other day. I don't like to be called either 'sir' or 'mam'; 'you' works for me.

[Ms. Donna]

Marla,

You know better than to ask me this question. ;)


There is this binary sex system which left its marks within the human culture.
Binary Sex... maybe.
Binary Gender... sorry, not buying it.


"I want to be me" isn't an option either, because you can't be named by others as me ;)).
I don't need to be named by others.


Point is: You have the two named options. Which one you choose for your life.
Gender as a binary is but one possible arbitrary interpretation of the world. It is no more valid - nor can it be proved or disproved with any more certainty - than any other gendered interpretation of the world.

And besides, any choice on my part is largely irrelevant, as people will gender me - all of us - as they see fit.

Suffice to say, I've abstained from voting. :)

Love & Stuff,
Donna

[Shauna_D]

Selecting the "male" response is straight forward for me. However I would never deny my strong feminine side and I treat macho or aggressive behaviour and attitudes with much distain. Although I live my male persona, on a number of occasions I have been mistaken for a woman anyway, especially when travelling on aircraft for some strange reason. It must have something to do with my long hair!
Sincerely
Shauna

[trannie T]

I'm a man but I enjoy wearing women's clothing. I enjoy my male self, I enjoy my female self. I do not wish to be 100% male, I do not wish to be 100% female. I have made my choice, I reject the question.

[Marla S]

Marla

Voted woman. Done the man thing. Not that keen on it.

Elle
X


I feel the same way at times, elle! I've had a good life being a man and it's a bit boring!! So now I'd like to try something different!!

Love,
Stephanie
That's an valid argument ;)

[Marla S]

When I dressed as a boy people fixated on my breasts and made assumptions about what I was. When I dressed as a girl I was accepted as 'normal'... but I wasn't. My adoption of abnormal clothing made me closer to normality in their social view.
Isn't thid matter already complex enough ?:D

[Marla S]

Still not keen on the black/white binary choices. Republican or Democrat - you can't win. Give me a good ol' wishy washy independent, anyday.



want to be accepted as none of the above! In other words as a Tranny.


Where is the choice for neither?


I don't mean to rain on the parade. I always enjoy your thought provoking comments, but this sounds more like a question of pronoun preference.
"What would I do if I'm called miss?"

I was thinking about this the other day. I don't like to be called either 'sir' or 'mam'; 'you' works for me.


Marla,

You know better than to ask me this question. ;)


Binary Sex... maybe.
Binary Gender... sorry, not buying it.

Well, I think there is no way out of the binary system. That's why I omitted the option "neither" or "sometimes this way/sometimes that way".
Our whole culture is based on the binary system since the very frist day.
(If one goes a bit deeper it's only based on reproduction).
Hence the question wasn't about what we like or not, but about what actually is.

I don't know how it works for you, but the first thing my mind does when I see someone is judging instinctively and automatically "woman" or "man". It can't be helped (I consider myself somewhat trained TG wise) and that is the basis of further judgment (good/bad looking man/woman, rich/poor man/woman, friendly/unfriendly man/woman, masculine man/woman, feminine woman/man, etc.)

The shading starts only after this major categorization. That's why I don't like the word gender, because it bears the false pretences of a inbetween, third, forth etc. gender. There is non and there never will be one (society wise). IMO this is a self-deception to assume it ever will be different.
(I've said it elsewhere that German language is more honest here, cause it makes no difference between sex and gender; for good reasons I think).


I don't need to be named by others.
IMO that's not true either. Humans are social beings (otherwise we wouldn't even know that we have "gender-problems"). Hence interaction with others is mandatory. Interaction means to be named by others. Interaction means that we will get the name/label man or woman as a basis for further judgement/shading/interaction. Last but not least we build our identitiy partly by this interaction. There is nothing we can do about it. Trying to deny this is another self-deception IMO, and can cause trouble for ones soul.


Gender as a binary is but one possible arbitrary interpretation of the world. It is no more valid - nor can it be proved or disproved with any more certainty - than any other gendered interpretation of the world.
What is arbitrary to a major part is the assignement of traits/skills/privileges to the one or other sex. This is what is discussable and what we question, nothing more but also nothing less. Non discussable is the gentic sex and hence the binary social system that is related to the sexes as close as thinkable.


And besides, any choice on my part is largely irrelevant, as people will gender me - all of us - as they see fit.
That's exactly the intention of my question. Though it is irrelevant what we wish, because we will be fitted in by others, I think it is important to position.
IMO we have to make two things clear for ourself:
1.) What is my self-perception (man, woman, inbetween, something completaly different)
2.) What will be the perception by others ? (man, woman)
(Don't has to be the same, necessarily)

Both aspects have to coordinated. We are able to have any thinkable gender by self-perception, but we also have to fit this in to the binary system.
Starting from "I want to be accepted as man" or "I want to be accepted as woman" we can shade ahead.


Suffice to say, I've abstained from voting. :)
I think it is important to make a descision some day, because IMO it is an important step to become accepted. IMO it is easier for the society and our loved ones to deal with shades within the binary sex/gender system than to create something "new".

[moira1952]

I voted woman solely because that is all i have ever wished to be accepted as .

[Marla S]

What you want in life and what you get are two different things. It would be real easy to say that I want to be accepted as a woman, but I'm not one, am I? No matter that I believe myself to be one and always have, I'm still a genetic male, and nothing can ever change that.
So true.

I just want to be accepted as a person, nothing more and nothing less. If people will do only that then they will see the real me for who and what I am, and that will make me happy.
I want that too, but I don't think that the category person really exsists. There is a male person, female person, feminine person, masculine person etc.
The real you only can be discovered by people willing to talk and deal and listen to you; that's a minority, the most important one though.

[Clare]

If I was to choose which 50% I'd rather be then I'd go for the male 50%.I have to agree with Lisa, but only because i've lived "in role" as a male and it's all I'm certain of. Just because I desire to be feminine doesn't mean I automatically know it's "the preferred option". Being of "the female gender" binary is still an unknown to me in reality.

Marla, you wouldn't happen to be a Pyschology student or professional? I've read a lot of your posts of this nature and you seem to have a lot of knowledge, particulary the terminology of the subject.

I don't mind your questions tho as I find them intellectually stimulating and thought provoking for me as a TG. This thread is a very good example.

[NatashaWI]

I've only dressed once and will again this year on Halloween but I was accepted as a woman even though most knew who I was. Since I was a fortune teller with Tarot cards, I fell into character and soon everyone just saw me as Madam Natasha...it was delightful

[Grrrrr]

100% male with a kinky feminine side to me! :devil:

[Raychel]

A man who likes to wear dresses

[Billie Jean]

I have never wanted to "be" a woman. I just want to be accepted as a man who likes his femininity and likes to outwardly express it - as well as inwardly feel it.
Me too, without being labeled gay(which I'm not). I would like to wear the clothes I want and just be myself. Billie Jean:thumbsup:

[Lee Andrews]

100% man, I just happen to love the clothes and or look of the femmine side.

Lee.

[gulliver]

..........to be categorised !

There is this binary sex system which left its marks within the human culture.
The latter makes a human male a man and a human female a woman.
I think it is not too pessimistic to say that this never will change.
I find that to be an extremely pessimistic attitude that helps perpetuate the problems we face trying to be accepted in society as people. Surely once we become aware of those marks in the culture, we can try to change them for the better.

So, to be assigned to a place in this system there are only two options:

To be accepted as man.
To be accepted as woman.

(To be accepted as a person is not really an option, because person is not related to sex or gender.
To be accepted as a person is all i've wanted throughout my life.
I'm not sure i really know what it is to 'be' or 'feel' 'male' or 'female'.
I may know what it's like to feel 'feminine' or 'masculine', but that's not the same.

"I want to be me" isn't an option either, because you can't be named by others as me ;)).

Point is: You have the two named options. Which one you choose for your life.
I ABSTAIN !

[LaurenS.]

I picked man because all i want to do is to be accepted as a man who enjoys wearing ladies clothing, its as simple as that.:hugs:

I agree! It's as simple as that but.....it's not simple.

[Kate Simmons]

I can't honestly vote in this one Marla. Third option (being a person) is the only one for me. Doesn't set well with me being "told' I have to be one or the other and I don't accept that really.:happy: Ericka

[Sky]

I'm a guy in a dress. All of us are.

The "I don't want to be categorized" thing reminds me of Monty Python's great Life of Brian skit (shortened version):

"I want to be a woman. I want to have babies. It's my right as a man to have babies."
"But you can't have babies!"
"Don't you oppress me. Even if I can't have babies, I have the right to have babies. "
"What's the point of fighting for your right to have babies when you can't have babies?"
"It is symbolic of our struggle against oppression."
"(apart) Symbolic of your struggle against reality."

[Marla S]

Marla, you wouldn't happen to be a Pyschology student or professional?

I don't mind your questions tho as I find them intellectually stimulating and thought provoking for me as a TG. This thread is a very good example.

No, not a psychologist. I am a chemist:D . Maybe both subjects have similar approach in the way that one has to scrutinize the obvious, because things are often not what they seem to be, and similar effects might have fundamentally different causes.
In addition I might be a bit of a quibbler:blushing:


Errr not fair but I guess that was what was intended so no vote from me
Right. I said nothing about fairness :D


..........to be categorised !

I find that to be an extremely pessimistic attitude that helps perpetuate the problems we face trying to be accepted in society as people. Surely once we become aware of those marks in the culture, we can try to change them for the better.
Thinking this over and my a bit too harsh reply to Ms. Donna (sounds a bit like makeing a great show of learning; sorry for that Donna) you might be right on the pessimistic attitude and a too narrowly defined intention of initial the question.
Nevertheless

To be accepted as a person is all i've wanted throughout my life.
raises a similar question or highlights even the background of my initial question.
What does it mean to be accepted as a person ?
Isn't the very first thing that defines a person again to be or to be accepted as man or woman.
Is there a person without a gender affiliation?
Can you name one human being that you only would call person without any relation to a gender ? (I don't know one)

As stated above, I think our brain subconsciously categorizes "man or woman" automatically, even if we don't want to and even without realizing, because it seems to be so fundamental. Everything else is set on top of this major categorization. Depending on the question this category might be of more or less importance in the end, but I think it is always the starting point that makes a person and ones attitude about a person.

In this sense, I think it might be a (better/more honest ???) way towards acceptance for oneself and others to say:
I am a male/man in dress and want to be accepted as such, than to seek to be accepted as a person (What ever this is).
For others it might be better to seek to be accepted as a woman and to do the best to achieve this.

Hence the answer to the initital question might even be the crucial test-question that makes the difference between CD and TS.



I can't honestly vote in this one Marla. Third option (being a person) is the only one for me. Doesn't set well with me being "told' I have to be one or the other and I don't accept that really.:happy: Ericka

Well, I thought/think that "person" is a good way to escape from the gender categoies myself. But scrutinizing this (What is a person ? How is a person defined ?) kind of provoked my initial question.
Right now I think to get rid of the "person-label" again might be the next step on the way to acceptance which seems to be a multi-step process.

1.) Free yourself from societies catgories.
2.) Define yourself as a person.
3.) Reintegrate yourself in the societies categories (and modify them this way too).
4.) ????

[RachelB.]

Just as me. It doesn't matter what you call me just accept me as I am.

[nishababe]

I cant vote for a woman as I was born as a man but I have the inner soul and feelings of a woman .

If the question was what would I like to be ,then my answer would be a beautiful sexy looking young woman ,but that is not the question asked of us .

So all i can ask for is to be accepted for what I am !!

Nishababe:heehee:

[Snookums]

I voted man,person was not an option.I never have had the desire to be a woman,just wear their clothes,not act like one or think like one,I am my parents person.