An ultimatum!! [Archive] - Crossdressers.com - #1 Community & Forum for Crossdressers, Family and Friends

Rachel_740

12-28-2004, 04:53 PM

Partner - what partner. the nearest I've had in the last 10 months is lusting at a GG in a club I go to.

To answer the question though, I was dressing when I lived alone in the mid/late '80's and early '90's and I purged when the GG who was to become my first wife moved in with me. I never told her of my dressing from the day we met in about 1990/91 until 11th June 2004.

When I did tell her, she was cool with it. She was annoyed, however, that I now shave my body hair off, whilst when we were together I flatly refused to do anything about getting rid of the disgusting fluff.

My second wife never new of my dressing either (but she will find out next week at work - I'd love to be the fly on the wall, I think she is going to be called into the office and they are going to make a special case of telling her, as she is VERY likely to try to cause trouble for me, but will, at least have serious problems with me).

Anyway, getting back to the point, by the comments I have given above, it is obvious that during my relationships I would have stopped dressing.

It's not going to happen now though. I'm here forever. :D

Rachel

Amelie

12-28-2004, 05:17 PM

The few boyfriends I had in the past, have all known Amelie. I was dressed when we met. None of them would have wanted me to stop dressing, I would not have been friends with someone who would have wanted me to stop dressing. So to answer the question, I would not stop dressing for anyone. If my SO didn't like my dressing, then we would split up.
Being Amelie is a part of me, I can't give up a part of me for anyone.
Amelie

Julie York

12-28-2004, 05:23 PM

I would give up absolutely...until the next brain storm. I am lucky in that the mood only comes on me in waves rather than being part of my being. But...well it is part of my being dammit. O.K. I could give up. For years probably. Seriously for years. (but I'd fantasise a lot) Then I'd crack and sneak off and do it behind everyones back so as not to upset anyone.

Which is lying.
Which is very sad.

paulaN

12-28-2004, 05:32 PM

At this point in my life I would say see ya hon. life has been great with you, time to start again.

Rikki

12-28-2004, 05:41 PM

I couldn't really say because my SO has known all along. But I have tried to give it up only to hate myself and everybody around me, so I would probably have a tough time deciding

Rikki

barbiecd

12-28-2004, 06:22 PM

While I would hope that it would never come to that....I would give up dressing as hard as that might be.

Hugs
Barbie

Julie

12-28-2004, 06:25 PM

Dressing is for life not just for Christmas. :)

Shame I don't drive or I could have it as a bumper sticker,

JJ

Donna Louise

12-28-2004, 06:27 PM

I have no idea what I would do as I have not been put in that position before. I guess if it happened I would decide until then, I just don't know.

Oh I could be say that I would leave or I would not dress again but honestly I have no idea what I would do.

Donna Louise

Katiegirl

12-28-2004, 06:59 PM

Tamara

Good question, when I was first married I had the ultimatium and said I would not do it again of course I did and that lead to the end of my marriage.

If I ever had a relationship I would have to tell the girl before we started living together and see what happens - there would be no ultimatium.

THe interesting question as a side what would my reaction be if my spouse started dressing in my male cloths all the time would I give her the same ultimatum - the answer to that is I don't know.

:)

Mind of a woman Body of a Man Life is a Bitch.

Jill

12-28-2004, 07:47 PM

As fun as dressing is, it does not provide companionship and that is more important to me than a pile of clothes.

Sharon

12-28-2004, 08:23 PM

I couldn't love anyone who gave me an ultimatum of any sort. I couldn't give up who I am, it would be like giving up breathing.

gender_blender

12-28-2004, 10:33 PM

Giving up the opportunity of expressing oneself through clothing would lead to a mental breakdown more than likely, for me at least. Although I am pretty lonely at times, expressing myself brings me alot more happiness than any one person could ever, unless of course they embraced that side of me. If life is the pursuit of happiness, then I have found mine and there will be a significant other to fill whatever void is left. I decided to be out about my sexuality after my first girlfriend left me. Being out as a crossdresser ensures that any girlfriend I will have in the future already knows who they are getting involved with.

Charlie/Chelsea

Nikki A.

12-29-2004, 12:45 AM

:confused: The dressing has caused and is still causing problems with us. If there was an ultimatum, for the sake of the kids I would try to stop but honestly I don't know if I could or if I would just be covert about it. If there were no kids involved or if they were grown I'd more than likely call her bluff in that we trully do love each other but if I had to choose then I'd probably start over. She knew about my CDing before we married. Yes,the degree has changed over the years. I'm more accepting of myself than I was 15- 20 years ago, then dressing up in womens clothes was wierd , but sexually stimulating. Now I realize that it is a side of me that I kept hidden from all, including myself and now I want to experiment and learn all about me.

kally

12-29-2004, 02:47 AM

I couldn't really say because my SO has known all along. But I have tried to give it up only to hate myself and everybody around me, so I would probably have a tough time deciding

Rikki
My feelings exactly .....I wouldnt have a clue as to what I would do :confused: Should one cut off a piece of themself to make another happy???Yet while doing this filling themself full of hate or should one leave the relationship and be full of guilt and remorse because in the back of your mind you think [this is all my fault].
GUILT
HATE
REMORSE
Three words that im sure quite a few of us have had to deal with before and hopefully never have to again.
OK Ill get off the soapbox now,thanx for letting me vent a little

kally :o

racquel

12-29-2004, 04:30 AM

bye-bye.

Amelie

12-29-2004, 06:43 AM

[QUOTE=CheapMascara]You "might" for the sake of the kids. How very big of you. Once upon a time people didn't dare even get divorced for the "sake of the kids". We, as a culture have become sooooooo self-absorbed, and immediate gratification that it is totally unbelievable!!!!! The sacrifices that my father made and his father before him are incomprehensible to the last two generations!!!!!!

Now......I'm not saying that we should just "buck up", or that the things discussed in this forum aren't legit........I'm just saying that "perspective" shouldn't always mean "just" our personal perspective. Having to hide something doesn't necessarily mean we are in prison. AND....if it sometimes feels that way it doesn't mean that the only solution is me me me.

Just playing the devils advocate.[/QUOTE

CheapMascara, I find what you say here is true for some CDs, I am included in this group you call,,,the me,me,me. I am very much into myself, but I don't hide it from the people I meet, or from my boyfriends. I try to find someone who is compatable with my way of life and my inner feelings(not very easy).
I would not lie to my SO about myself just to have a relationship. This is probably why I have had so few relationships. I have to live with this. Some here can make these sacrafices in life, I am weak, I can not change myself for the sake of a relationship.
ChaepMascara, I believe in what you are saying, it is true. I am not challenging your thoughts. I am just saying that I can't make these sacrifices for someone.
Love Amelie

Wendy me

12-29-2004, 07:19 AM

my wife dosent know abought wendy.......although i have been caught with make up on.......she knows abought some fem clouthing i keep ...........she thinks it for halloween coustems...............i mean realy accross from our bedroom is my office with a closet full of wendy's things mabey she knows but dosen't want to know.........
stop or i will leave you????????though one..........it took a long time for me and "him" to come to terms with this part of us........almost killed us don't think i could live through putting away wendy for ever she is me .........i am her

AnnaMaria

12-29-2004, 08:09 AM

Fortunately for me I don't think that I will ever have to deal with a situation like that. My wife is very loving and understanding and even tolerante of the person that I am becoming. I say becoming because until I joined this group I had never even hinted to anyone that this side of me existed. Now I find that the more I discover about who I really am the more loving and even tempered I become and I think that my wife likes the more sensitive person that I am becoming. Even though at times she has a hard time dealing with the changes. I have come to realize that most of the changes are things that were there all along that I was afraid to show because I was afraid that I would show to much and would give myself away some how.

As for the idea of this or that but not both. I am not sure how I would react. I really believe that it would be something that would have to be dealt with at the time. Though I want to believe that I would be willing to give up dressing to maintain the love that we share I really don't know. But what it really comes down to is the question: Does she love you for you or for the idea of who she wants you to be?. Because if she loves you for you then there would never be a time when this could happen. But if she loves the idea of who she wants you to be then it could be easy for her to force a choice there by showing that she never really loved or accepted the person that you are and making it clear that the marriage could not last anyway because the commitment hasto be 100% or nothing at all. That is the only way that it will ever work and the two parties both be happy.

huggs
anna

Maddie Knight

12-29-2004, 08:52 AM

You can't ever stop once you've stated.
I once tried stopping, I even gave my clothes to a charity shop. I did not last very long, my SO and me had lots of fun restocking my wardrobe. ;)

~Tammy~

12-29-2004, 11:09 AM

Crossdressing isn't a hobby (though many just do it for fun) nor is it a disease (though people outside the CD circle may think so).
Crossdressing is a part of a persons personality, a part of who we are, like a sense of humour (or lack of it!). It's the way a person wants to express how they feel inside.
It cannot simply be given up or brushed aside as a passing phase.

CD's go through passing phases of purging, feeling out of touch with the rest of society up to the point of guilt or shame of doing such things. These phases don't last long until the urge of self expressionism comes breezing into our lifes again.

I told my SO (Tamara-GG) of my dressing as early into our relationship as I felt comfortable in doing so, as it is a part of who I am. I decided she had to know the complete me if we were going to spend our lives together. I did this because I love her so much I could not keeps any secrets from her.

If I were asked to give it up or she would leave?

In all honesty I would have to say no. It would be simply impossible for me to disregard a part of myself. Not only that but as I mentioned earlier it is a part of my personality and that personality part of a package of who I am. If there was some way I could stop dressing up, it would probably change my personality and then maybe she may not like who I was.

If it really was a case of either I stop dressing or loose her, then I would stop dressing in front of her but I would continue in secret which would only lead to frustration, again leading to a change in my personality.

Ariel_TV

12-29-2004, 11:18 AM

I couldnt be with someone who want me to "amputate" part of myself because of intolerance. No longer do i want to go thru trying to hide part of myself and being ashamed ot it ... it too much even for love ...

Personnally i learned about who i am early one , so i do tell someone when i am in a relationship , it not something i try to hide from them because i want to be love for who i am entirely not just a masculine image ...

Tamara Croft

12-29-2004, 03:10 PM

Thank you for all your responses. It seems to me that most of you couldn't give it up even if your SO wanted you to. It's a part of who you are and myself personally wouldn't ever ask Tammy to give that part of her life up. I think if it wasn't for Tammy, she (well he really) wouldn't be as loving, caring, sensitive etc.

Tamara x

nuffsaid

12-30-2004, 01:10 PM

I don’t take ultimatums well. Compromises I can deal with but an ultimatum is like saying "I don’t like part of you because you don’t fit into my world the way I want you too". (My opinion). Take me as I am or not and maybe Later we could work out a compromise.

Vickie-CD

12-30-2004, 02:19 PM

Tamara, I honestly do not believe in ultimatums. I have never been one for the"my way or no way" attitude. That is my honest opinion.
Love,
Vickie

Kassandra

01-02-2005, 12:19 AM

Hi!

My name is Trista, and this is my very first post anywhere. Getting this far has taken every ounce of courage. And reading all your posts has helped me get over the "I'm the only one in the world with these problems".

All of you, THANK YOU!

The thread talked about an ultimatum from your S.O. It happened to me over thirteen years ago. We started our relationship with her knowing fully about me. She was supportive and enthusiastic. We were about the same size so we could share a few things, though she did want me to buy my own panties and bras (which I did). And only once did we go out, though I found it highly energizing.

Several years later, after we were married, "we had a little talk". She felt that if she encouraged my "habit" I would grow out of it. When I didn't, she became more moody and withdrawn. If I pushed for more or even the same amout of dressing up we used to do I would be put off or rejected. Eventually she could take it no longer and asked me to stop doing it, stop talking about it and never mention it again.

I was devistated (still am). From that time till just a few weeks ago, I never dressed, not even in private. Of course the feelings were still there and my fantasies never changed, but were never again vocalized.

A few weeks ago, while alone, I put on some of her underwear (mine had long since been thrown out). I realized that for the last thirteen years part of me had been in a coma. I came alive again. I cannot deny myself, I cannot remove that of me that is female (not without dying).

Now I am faced with a terrible decision. How do I tell my wonderful wife of over twenty years (and she is too, she is a kind and loving woman) that the other woman in my life looks out at me in the mirror every morning?

I, Tris, need to be awake and aware. But to do so means that I must confront my wife with an ultimatum. This has made me depressed and lonely. Reading your posts on this board and others have given me hope.

It sounds like while my particular case is unusual, it isn't unique. How have you coped?

I don't want to bring everyone down. Actually, I feel like I've been released from prison. Having someone to talk about this has really made me feel better. Keeping it bottled up hasn't been good for me.

Thank you all!

Love

Tris

Sharon

01-02-2005, 01:07 AM

Hi Trista and welcome!
I don't know how to advise you. Your wife seems to have made it quite clear that she doesn't want you to do this. Although I almost always say honesty and openness are best, I'm not so sure in your case.
Has she changed over the past thirteen years? Is she more confidant that your dressing won't develop into something more serious? She has had all these years to get to know you better. Is there a possibility that she will listen to you and accept even a limited amount of dressing?
Can you two discuss intimate things like fantasies or fetishes that don't involve dressing? Do you know what it was that initially got her to declare her opposition to your dressing? The explanation given seems a little flimsy to me.
See? There are too many unknowns for me to tell you what to do. If I knew you two had an intimate relationship I would tell you to sit with her and slowly explain how you feel, all the while telling her that she was still the most important thing to you. You were willing to give up this part of your life for many years for her. That should mean something to her.

Good luck dear, and see how honestly you can answer these questions before you ask them of her.

Sharon

Darby

01-02-2005, 01:44 AM

I was sort of put in that situation this summer... my wife found some pictures and then found some clothes of mine... she was PISSED to say the least! I thought I was headed for divorce court there for several weeks. It has subsided but she still makes references to it and doesn't like it AT ALL! She wanted me to purge but I stood my ground... seperated my clothes with the ones that I felt I would be able to purge but still haven't... and won't! I'll have to admit, it was a scary time but we are still together, talked it out and she isn't happy about it all but she doesn't go there really anymore. I should have told her in the beginning and as time went on, couldn't find a way to do that and that was my mistake!!! I have to say though, I have a dear friend here to thank for helping me through the whole situation... I love you Maddy!

Vickie-CD

01-02-2005, 06:15 AM

Welcome Trista, everyday life is made up of choices, some big some small. I suppose after a length of time you still feel you are no longer a prisoner, you made the right choice. I hope life treats you well & best of luck.
Love,
Vickie

Tamara Croft

01-02-2005, 06:58 AM

Hiya Trista

You only get one shot at your life and it should be a happy life. If your wife truely does love you for whats inside then surely she wouldn't want to lose that. Is there one thing in her life that she couldn't give up?? You need to make a choice whether you want to live out the rest of your life happy, or stay miserable and start resenting your wife for basically telling you what you can and can't do. Marriage is a two way thing, there has to be some give and take in it or resentment will eventually take over.

Tamara x

crispy

01-02-2005, 07:08 AM

threats are one thing; ultimatums are something different. If an ultimatum is truly serious, then the relationship has already collapsed and is not worth saving, unless there are children involved.

been there, done that.

that's my controversial viewpoint - so there :p .

Wendy me

01-02-2005, 07:51 AM

the thought of a ultimatum blows the mind .......i mean here i set this morning full en fem why???????????because i am a freak????????gay????????sick?????????twisted????
ok you got me on twisted. no this is who i am.......as i said before i haven't told my wife abought wendy.......but she has to have a clue mabey she dosen't want to know
but if given the ultimatum wendy goes or the marrage is over............tough choise we are talking abought two girls i love with all my heart and sole..............

only one thing is diff.........althou i would hurt for a veary long thime with out my wife
i could live.......a little broken.......a little hollow.........i could live

to give up this part of me ......not a hobby........not a prevision.........not a sickness
not to be cured.......from what??????it's not a addiction......i know what that is
like going through drug and booze rehab .............purge all my fem things???????
thats the answer......no fuc_en way .........then your a crossdresser with nouthing to wear.......it dosen't go away........to stop or give up ........put away wendy would be
thats right would be not like killing a major part of who i am ............could i live through it??????????????? don't think so ............this whole thing almost killed us to get here............

so i'll stop rambling on now but i'd have to say i would choiese me

DonnaT

01-02-2005, 08:13 AM

Welcome to the Forum Trista.

13 years is unbelievable. WOW.

Some of us can last a day, a week, others 6 months, etc.

When you discuss this reemerging of Trista with your wife, she should at least be appreciative of the fact that you tried so very hard. She's probably not going to understand how you could give it up for so long, and can't give it up again. She probably will push for you to give it up again too. But I could be wrong and she will be ok with it.

Is there anything about you that you don't like, that may have resulted from not dressing? Something that may have had a negative affect on your relationship? If so, then tell her you don't like this "aspect" of yourself and that you believe things will now be better.

One site you might find beneficial is The Couples Page (http://www.3dcom.com/couples/couples.html)

One article is entitled Telling your Partner (http://www.3dcom.com/couples/telling.html)

My wife tells me how hard it is on her, and saying that I don't understand. I told her I do understand and that is just as hard on me, trying to deny a part of who I am. That it is who I am not what I do.

She says I have all my friends here to talk to and she has no one she can talk to. I've invited her to open up here or on the other Forum (http://crossdressers-forum.com/forums/) with the dedicated SO section. She reads but hasn't participated yet.

Maybe if your wife had someone to talk to about this she might feel better. Here I am talking as though she won't be understanding when you tell her, and she may not have a problem at all.

Good luck.

RachelDenise

01-02-2005, 08:14 AM

I couldn't do it. This is much too important to me to give up. It is who I am. No ultimatum at home yet, but it is frosty after she found out.

jennifer michelle

01-02-2005, 09:34 AM

Early in marriage & when our child was young, my wife gave me such an ultimatum. My response was to remind her of the many good qualities she had seen in me when accepting my proposal for marriage, that I had been true to her & her needs throughout the marriage & was a good father as well as a hard-working provider. I explained that my dressing was a major part of me & that she should not try to change the "rules" so drastically & abruptly. Basically, I threw the burden of choice back at her. She could leave if she chose to do to so, but ought to think very hard about what she was doing.

My stance, presented in a candid, gentle manner caused her to to re-think & evaluate her own stance. In the end, this issue went away & has never again surfaced.

ReneCT

01-02-2005, 09:41 AM

bye bye hon-have a nice life

raven

01-02-2005, 10:19 AM

I'am sure going to miss her

Kassandra

01-02-2005, 10:46 AM

Sharon, Donna, Vicky, Tamera, and all the others who took time to repsond:

First, it is so wonderful to be addressed by my name! My name came recently to me and perhaps was part of my re-awakening.

Of course life is much more complex than can be explained in one of these forum posts. In the past thirteen years many things have happened. Her parents terminal illnesses, my mother's death, raising two children from my previous marriage and just recently becoming empty nesters. So much to tell. But all of them contributed to not being able to have an ongoing deep relationship. Or at least things that prevented us from having time and ablility to be "just us".

All your comments are so kind and thoughtful. All your comments give me things to think about.

Because I have such a hard time expressing myself and my feelings, I thought that the only way to talk about this was in some confrontational way. Your deep insights really present me with different options. I still feel so betrayed even after all these years, that my internal anger is blinding me. There must be a way to have constructive conversations about this.

Also while we've never had any discussion since that time, some unsaid communication still goes on. I wear tights during the winter and carry a shoulder bag with my wallet in it as well as other small things that are either androgynous or only slightly fem. It allows me to show, discreetly, some aspect of my feminitiy.

But what I'm missing, isn't really the dressing up, though, it really is nice. But I couldn't express my feminine feelings to anyone. In all my dealings with the world, I must be masculine. That is why coming here has been so wonderful. Your words have touched me so deeply. Just being able to talk to you has been so uplifting. It will be some time before I can bring my feelings out to my wife, though because of your wonderful support, I realize I must do it. Over the last weeks, I've been in such a state. Realizing that, like the genie, I will not go back into the lamp, but not knowing what to do next.

This has been such a ramble and I think I'm babbling just a bit, sorry.

I just wanted to thank you all for such heartfelt support! I didn't anticipate such quick and loving support. I really am stunned!

Thank you.

Tris

SilkenPrincess

01-02-2005, 06:25 PM

Trista,
that is a lovely name! Welcome!!
Your story is a lot like mine. I didn't tell my wife about me before we married, BIG MISTAKE! (And wrong, deceptive, misleading,....) Anyway, I did tell her eventually, mainly because I couldn't hold it in anymore. She wasn't exactly pleased, but she did agree to let me dress at home a couple of times a week, away from the kids of course. That lasted about 2 or 3 years. She got to where she couldn't "stomach" it anymore, and I got the ultimatum. Well, we had three sons that I couldn't give up, so I aquiesced. That was October 1991! So, its been over thirteen years for me also. They haven't been joyful years for me, but they're not entirely wasted either! (I got to be there for my boys!) I really understand your statement about feeling so much better just being able to talk about it here, that hits home for me too. I hope you will find the freedom to fully express yourself in full reality within your marrriage. If you do, you will have my undying envy.
Love SilkenPrincess

crispy

01-02-2005, 11:46 PM

bye bye hon-have a nice life
I can identify with that observation

Sweet Susan

01-03-2005, 01:05 AM

Ultimatums create marital problems. A wife or SO that gives an ultimatum is a power monger, and I'm not sure how I feel about being married to a power monger. However, I am not interested in losing my wife. It would be very difficult to just quit crossdressing, though I'm sure I could do it if I wanted to. The key word is "want." I spend my time wondering how I could possibly dress more often, so how horrible would it be to not dress at all. Also, having hairy legs would just disgust me.

Welcome Tristen! Yours is a tough story. I'm not sure what would be best for you. I'm sure you'll think long and hard before you make a decision. Let us know what happens.

Man in tights

01-03-2005, 03:35 AM

I told my fiancee that I cannot stop (I've tried and failed enough times already). I love her so much but whenever I have tried to stop CDing in the past I get terribly irritable, can't concentrate and generally lose the plot. I need the feminine part of me to be whole. We've been talking about having a kid... that could get difficult.
Being given that kind of ultimatum is a lose-lose situation I guess... i.e. I'd face being losing her or losing my mind!!!

Tristen Cox

01-03-2005, 04:34 AM

First without further adew, Welcome to the fourm Trista!
I'm Tristen so you already know I love your name ;):D I see you're already getting support from the wonderful ladies here. Let me not hijack this thread too far(for the first time huh), and say glad you found us. Have a seat and enjoy your new home.

*back to the topic*
I am single and have been for quite sometime. I will not get involved again with someone who does not accept this side of me. Point blank if they change their mind and give me this kind of ultimatum, I will pack my things and wave goodbye. I could no more give up my feminine side any more than a major organ.
That's all folks..

Love & hugs
Tristen

crispy

01-03-2005, 05:06 AM

I will not get involved again with someone who does not accept this side of me. Point blank if they change their mind and give me this kind of ultimatum, I will pack my things and wave goodbye. I could no more give up my feminine side any more than a major organ.
That's all folks..

Love & hugs
Tristen
good for you, girl. :)

MonaSmith

01-03-2005, 06:51 AM

I am single and have been for quite sometime. I will not get involved again with someone who does not accept this side of me. Point blank if they change their mind and give me this kind of ultimatum, I will pack my things and wave goodbye. I could no more give up my feminine side any more than a major organ.
That's all folks..

Love & hugs
TristenYay, Tristen, you rock!

I think that you are so right. Being femme is such an important part of our makeup (excuse the pun) that it must have had some bearing on why we are found attractive in the first place? That being the case why should we have to suddenly deny it, and ourselves, just to please someone else because they are uncomfortable with their own feelings and desires on the matter? It doesn't make sense to me, but then I have no real experience in this stuff.

Oh and Tristen, judging by the pics you have been putting up in the Pictures thread, you won't remain single for much longer. You look HOT girl.

michelle essex

01-03-2005, 07:14 AM

I couldn't give up dressing so relationship woul fail. Would enjoy having all the time I wanted to dress.

Kassandra

01-04-2005, 01:53 AM

Wow!

It seems that my comment really lit up this thread!

Tristen:
Thank you for the kind comment about my name, and I think yours is nice too!

Silken Princess seems to have been down much the same hard road I have been and she has my deepest sympathy. If there is any support I can give you Princess, please don't hesitate to ask.

Life with another, isn't (at least for me) something I can easily give up, regardless of my percieved gender.

Now that I've come out of the shadows, I cannot return to that silent death. But neither can I tear away the last twenty years. I've been so depressed since I came out to myself. And it has only been here where I can speak with you as I am, that I have found relief from the black hole I was in. It has been as if I have been released from prison. At least here I breathe.

Thank you all for your love and acceptance. It has touched me deeply. I have a small hope to be able to go on.

Love you all!

Trista

ReneCT

01-04-2005, 09:35 AM

Trista

Nicely said. Thank you for sharing those feelings with us. It is much the way I feel too.

Rene

donna anne

01-04-2005, 03:43 PM

I've tried stopping, never to the point of purging, but cant. Its been a part of me for too long. My wife doesnt know yet but shes been a part of me for too
long as well. I dont really know what i would do if it came to that. Im getting
more and more determined to come out so Ill get back to you

Tristen Cox

01-04-2005, 03:49 PM

Yay, Tristen, you rock!

I think that you are so right. Being femme is such an important part of our makeup (excuse the pun) that it must have had some bearing on why we are found attractive in the first place? That being the case why should we have to suddenly deny it, and ourselves, just to please someone else because they are uncomfortable with their own feelings and desires on the matter? It doesn't make sense to me, but then I have no real experience in this stuff.

Oh and Tristen, judging by the pics you have been putting up in the Pictures thread, you won't remain single for much longer. You look HOT girl.

Thank you Mona. Oh my. Can you see me blushing over here:o

Love
Tristen

MonaSmith

01-04-2005, 04:22 PM

Thank you Mona. Oh my. Can you see me blushing over here:o

Love
TristenSorry babes, not looking at those cheeks right now!

ChristineRenee

01-04-2005, 04:31 PM

Ultimatum? Not an option here. I have told my wife on more than one occasion in the past that I would never stand in her way if she ever got to the point where she could not deal with who I am anymore.

Who I am, what I am, and how I feel about who and what I am, will always take precedence over any inconvenience or uncomfortableness that my wife may still have about me being a "she-male." After all, she was told upfront about everything from the very beginning...if she had ever had a major problem with it, then she had the opportunity then to run and to never look back.

My wife may truly wish that I were different...that is, more manly or more...whatever...but I do believe that she finally does accept the fact that not only do I love her for who and what she is, but that I also don't force any unreal expectations on my part on to her to change to be more like I would want her to be, and I, in turn, expect no less of an agreement from her with respect to how she interacts with me as a spouse and helpmate.

So...no...we are not into delivering ultimatums to each other. The stakes involved here are already high enough as it is, thank you very much.

Love,
Christine Renee

sherri

01-17-2005, 03:04 PM

Most people don't like ultimatums, especially those that contradict their own desires, because for one thing, they challenge our sense of personal freedom.

I'm single and not in the situation posed in this thread, so I would never dream of telling another person how they should handle a situation like this.

I have, however, experienced divorce and the loss of love, home, fulltime parenthood, etc., so, to echo Jill's sentiment, I will point out one thing.* Loneliness is a sad thing, and I believe that many, many crossdressers suffer from it. A few single crossdressers manage to have friends and lovers en femme, but they are the exception rather than the rule.

While I have no plans to give up crossdressing (and no one is asking me to),
one thing I am learning is that there are very few people out there in face-to-face life interested in crossdressers as friends or companions. The cold hard fact is that, statistically and experientially, crossdressing is likely to result in and exacerbate, rather than alleviate, loneliness. So, unless I'm willing to accept a life of isolation, I have to set aside dressing at least some of the time in order to pursue the human interaction we all need to stay sane. In other words, even though I am single and "free", I have to accept some compromises. Is that so different from someone trying to negotiate a remedy with a SO?

Now let me hasten to say that I love the ladies in this forum, and in a just a few days I am already experiencing emotional ties to some of you. I am grateful for that. But for all that means to me, I'm still like the little girl who, afraid of a nighttime thunderstorm, wants to get in bed with her parents, but is asked by her dad, "You know God's angels are watching over you, don't you?"

"Yes," the little girl replies.

"So why are you afraid?" asks the father.

"Well Daddy," the little girl answers, "sometimes I just need someone with some skin on."

Hmm, perhaps I would like to timidly suggest something:

"To thine own self be true," the maxim goes. Yeah well, "pride goeth before a fall", too. It can be a dangerous, expensive thing. So can selfishness. So can compulsive behavior.

CheapMascara's post was onto something. Sometimes love must be sacrificial, if it is truly love, so act with the same compassion you are wanting from the other person. Be patient. Have a little faith that if the other person's love is genuine, he or she will get over the emotional crisis and can be gently guided to middle ground. Perhaps there is a way, in time, to be who you want to be without it costing you everything.

__________________________________________________ ___________
* Crossdressing was not a factor in my divorce, simply because it hadn't even occurred to me yet.

LindaTS

01-18-2005, 08:02 AM

I might actually be faced with this situation in the near futere and I already know what the answer will be. I was born this way and there is no way I can stop. This is from one woman to another.

Wendy me

01-18-2005, 08:14 AM

altho not abought dressing we don't do ultimatums well.........eather you do.........
or...........we just say not playing that game .............the only time i think i would ever do it is when it was wendy or me..............i would have to say bye to ......
well deffenely not wendy................

LindaTS

01-18-2005, 08:18 AM

There is a very good chance that I'll be faced with that in the near future and I already know what the answer will be. I was born this way and there is nothing I can do about it. This is from one woman to another.

jessica64

01-18-2005, 08:51 AM

I was given that ultimatum when i was maried I said I would and couldnt so ended up in the divorce courts. Now my g/f knew about Jessica before she moved in with me. If ever i was given that ultimatum again I would just say that I couldnt give up on Jessica as she is part of me we come in one pakage
love Jessica

Melissa A.

01-18-2005, 09:07 AM

Lots of complications to a question like that, especially if you have young kids.

Myfirst wife knew before we married, but didnt realise the extent to which it was a part of me. Neither did I, frankly, since I was suppressing for the sake of love, which I thought would make cding less important. Over time, she grew more and more ambivilant about it, and a big part of me doesnt blame her. The marraige didnt fail because of cding, We still loved eachother, and now are good friends, even though we dont see eachother much.

I didnt tell my second wife, out of fear, and still holding on to hope that vanilla love was more important to me than cd. Anyway, her and I never should have married. When she found out, she didnt understand at all, but dealt with the fact that I did it when she wasnt around. So glad that relationship is over, big mistake.

Those who have read my messages know I have come out, accepted, and love who I am now. So I will never have to answer that question again.

Sorry to get off track. I think alot of us middle age cds have been through alot of the same things, and have gotten that ultimatum from time to time. Willing to bet we usually gave in for the sake of relationship and fear of being alone. Unfortunately, as humans, I think we need to go through some bad, painful stuff before we are ready to be comfortable with who we are.

Back to the question- is it fair? If your SO has always known about you, is it selfish of her to ask you to give up a part of yourself? There are also degrees of everything. If you are not obsessive about cding and it doesnt get in the way of your vanilla life, isnt it unfair to be aked to give up somnething that helps make you who you are?

I think so.

Hugs,

Melissa :)

ChristineRenee

01-18-2005, 09:58 AM

You raise good points Melissa. You enter into a marriage and you try to be upfront and as honest and forthright as possible. My wife knew about me being a CD before we even got engaged, therefore, she willingly accepted that condition when she agreed to marry me. I was NOT a TG at that time, nor did I ever have any inkling that I would be down the line. Ok, so I can understand that this revelation later on in years may change the dynamic, but I have never tried to keep info about my CD/TG from her at anytime...ever.

Now then, what about what I have sacrificed here? I didn't marry until I was almost 43 years old. I'm sure that a lot of that was because of fear that a prospective wife would not be able to deal with me being a CD. Also, what about having kids? I know what I had to go through as an adolescent. It was bad enough for me to have to go through it. It would have broken my heart to have to watch a son or daughter have to go through the very same thing. I don't know that I could have dealt with that very well at all.

This is my wife's 2nd marriage...my first. She was married for 10 years to her first husband. He cheated on her...to the extent of even moving his mistress into the basement of their home where they lived the final year of my wife's marriage to him. She lived upstairs. Nice guy, huh? Then just a few months after the divorce she had to have an emergency hysterectomy. They never had kids because they were both career oriented and he always told her that he didn't want any. The first year after he re-married, he and his new wife had a kid. Think of how that must have made my wife feel back then? My wife then was single for the next 7 years before marrying me.

We have been married now for 10 years...together for 11. It hasn't always been a bed of roses to be sure, but we both love each other and are committed to both our marital vows and making this marriage work. We have been to counseling regarding my CD/TG issue. My wife, though understanding, still looks at this as "my problem" that needs to be resolved here. She feels that she is the "normal" one in the relationship, by societal standards anyway, therefore this gives her the upper hand and leverage in all things negotiable, in her view. I feel that because society looks down at the CD/TG community, that I am not getting a fair shake here, and that she doesn't treat me as an equal partner in this marriage because I am TG and that is out of the societal mainstream.

So...looking at the total picture then...am I being unreasonable here because I want my wife to be accepting of me as who I REALLY am and not as the person she feels I SHOULD be? She didn't have to marry me...fine...I didn't have to marry her either and we both have made sacrifices to that end to make this marriage work for both of us.

This is where we are at present day with a move to Florida and her retirement looming in July. We talked this past weekend about the possibility of me joining Tri-Ess when we get down to Florida. They have two chapters near where we will be. My wife has even agreed to attend some meetings initially, but has expressed her concern about me doing CD'ing on a 24/7 basis. I reassured her that if I can be a Tri-Ess member, I wouldn't need to spend so much time on CD'ing. She remains skeptical of that as she does of me telling her that I have no intention of going past HRT on to SRS. I believe that she believes that no matter what I say or how I reassure her, that this progression will be inevitable. This would effectively kill the marriage, that I fully understand.

Marriage is hard enough in and of itself let alone when you throw in a dynamic such as CD'ing is. I'll candidly admit to you here, that had I known she was not going to be all that accepting of this overall, before we got engaged, I probably would not have asked her to marry me and I just would have stayed single for the rest of my life. And that is the honest truth...so help me God.

Thanks Melissa, and to everyone for letting me tell my story to you here.

Love,
Christine Renee

Melissa A.

01-18-2005, 10:55 AM

Anytime, anytime at all, Christine. Love hearing other's stories. They are almost always interesting, and reading them helps me know I have lots in common with so many.

Sounds like, overall, you have something good here. And that you have both compromised at times for the sake of your connection, which seems real to me.

If you are not a ts, I would say you need to go above and beyond the call of duty to let her know this. There is a big difference in my mind , between being a frequent cder and moving on to hormone therapy. I am not at all critical of you, but that may not be who she thought she married, as you implied. Guess I'm saying I understand her worries.

However, since this has always been a part of your lives together, there is no way you should feel like you are not on equal footing in any discussion about the matter. JUst remember, balance in all things. She probably cares deeply for Christine, but also loves the caring guy she married, who is so influenced positively by Christine. Could be she misses him.

I am simply a frequent cd, who also loves the guy I am and the life I lead. My gf loves cd, but since it is a new relationship and somewhat long distance now, we have yet to confront too many serious issues yet.Honesty is the most important thing, and it sounds like you have followed that path.

I wish you both all the strength and luck you can find. Will be thinking of you. You may pm me anytime you want to.

Hugs,

Melissa :)