Video clip of Ms.Tiffany 2006

[Sonia_cd]

Girls,

You've got to see this!!! They are all transvestites...actually that just sounds wrong...these are the hottest women you can find :D

http://today.reuters.com/tv/videoStory.aspx?isSummitStory=false&storyId=97f7556ffeb82ca308ed4903089d95a02e60e0cf

Love,
Sonia

[GG Vanya]

Girls,

You've got to see this!!! They are all transvestites...actually that just sounds wrong...these are the hottest women you can find :D http://today.reuters.com/tv/videoStory.aspx?isSummitStory=false&storyId=97f7556ffeb82ca308ed4903089d95a02e60e0cf

Love,
Sonia

<chuckle> the winner's acceptance speech belies your remarks.

While I'll say with no hesitation they're gorgeous! my dear, they are not women.

[carol ann]

What some of us might give to have figures and features like those.

[Sonia_cd]

<chuckle> the winner's acceptance speech belies your remarks.

While I'll say with no hesitation they're gorgeous! my dear, they are not women.

You don't believe I was trying to pass them off as women do you? :happy:

Anyway, I'll grant you that Vanya. What you say is true, they are not women. I wasn't serious when I said it, it was an exaggeration born from images that one sees. Might I be allowed that or do I have to be factual and nothing else??? :D

Love,
Sonia

[GG Vanya]

Meh, don't mind me. I'm just a person who prefers to deal in reality. Trudi and I are perfectly matched in that department.

That might seem strange to some, in that I'm married to a CD. But, she and I both understand (and willingly accept) that the other person in my bed wearing all the wonderful silky things is a male.

It works exceptionally well for us. :D

[Julogden]

Meh, don't mind me. I'm just a person who prefers to deal in reality. Trudi and I are perfectly matched in that department.

That might seem strange to some, in that I'm married to a CD. But, she and I both understand (and willingly accept) that the other person in my bed wearing all the wonderful silky things is a male.

It works exceptionally well for us. :D
Hi Vanya and Sonia,

This is a subject that confuses many people, and if you read up on transgender identity, you'll discover that some males truly are women and some females are men, that's basically what defines a transsexual.

In this case, I think some here are mixing up CD's and transsexuals, 2 very different varieties of people. I've been to several pageants of this sort, so I can say from personal experience that many if not most of those pageant contestants live as women 24/7, so they identify as, and are functioning as women.

Of course, they are males, and nothing that they do, hormones, surgery, etc., can change that, but to say that they are men simply isn't correct. Surgery and hormones can enable them to be functional females sexually, short of childbirth and menstruation, but at the genetic level, they will always be male.

Vanya, your husband is a CD, male, and a man, the pageant contestants are TS, male and women.

Carol:hugs:

[JenniferMint]

Wow, have these girls been on HRT from the beginning of puberty or something?! I can't notice any male facial features at all!

Except there was this girl at the end speaking in Thai and she obviously had a guy's voice, so I'm guessing she didn't get HRT early.

[GG Vanya]

I'm willing to agree to disagree with ya on this one Carol. Genetic male=man, and Genetic female=woman in my world. Granted, this is in the scientific context.

BTW where did it say the contestants were TS? The article plainly described them as transvestites in the opening paragraph. Big difference. My Trudi is a Transvestite, in the scientific sense~~Trans meaning cross and Vestite meaning vestiture or clothing.

I've been frowned upon many times for my "black and white" view of the trans world <shrug> but, I am entitled to my own convictions the same as anyone else.

[Jasmine Ellis]

Wonderful Vedio Thank You For Sharing

[kwebb]

Oh they are just too cute and it gives me some confidence in a weird kind of way. They are not ashamed, completely themselves and natural.

Of course my question is do you think something like this could occur in the US or UK to that kind of roaring positive response? Will it ever?

And yet Americans and other 'civilized' p.ples thumb there noses down at those culture as not being as refined as we are, but you tell me, who is moving forward with acceptance and love and who is moving backwards with intolerance and hate?

[Barb Valentine]

I'm just amazed how beautiful some guys can look
But I see that here every day :hugs:
Thanks for sharing Sonia

[Julogden]

I'm willing to agree to disagree with ya on this one Carol. Genetic male=man, and Genetic female=woman in my world. Granted, this is in the scientific context.

BTW where did it say the contestants were TS? The article plainly described them as transvestites in the opening paragraph. Big difference. My Trudi is a Transvestite, in the scientific sense~~Trans meaning cross and Vestite meaning vestiture or clothing.

I've been frowned upon many times for my "black and white" view of the trans world <shrug> but, I am entitled to my own convictions the same as anyone else.
Hi Vanya,

As I said in my posting, I have been to pageants like that one, only at the national level here in the USA, and have known people who were contestants, and many of them are transsexuals. You're right, it didn't say that the contest was for transsexuals, but I have read about this pageant before, so I knew that the Thai girls in that pageant are mostly TS's, see http://www.dallasvoice.com/artman/exec/view.cgi/22/2233 for details.

I've personally seen hundreds of different TG women of all varieties here in Chicago over the years when I was out-and-about a lot, and believe me, males can be women and females can be men.

Male and female are determined by genes, man and woman describe social roles and gender identities.

I've met enough TG women and men to confidently say that any woman that you see in the course of your day, except for pregnant ones of course, could be genetically male, and any man that you meet could be a genetic female. This is something that's hard to grasp if you haven't personally experienced it and actually met a wide variety of T-people, not just CD's, in person.

Carol:hugs:

[JenniferMint]

I've met enough TG women and men to confidently say that any woman that you see in the course of your day, except for pregnant ones of course, could be genetically male

The pretty girls who are genetically male probably all got HRT at a young age *sigh*

(I started at 24)

[GG Vanya]

[QUOTE=Julogden;580009]Hi Vanya,

As I said in my posting, I have been to pageants like that one, only at the national level here in the USA, and have known people who were contestants, and many of them are transsexuals. You're right, it didn't say that the contest was for transsexuals, but I have read about this pageant before, so I knew that the Thai girls in that pageant are mostly TS's, see http://www.dallasvoice.com/artman/exec/view.cgi/22/2233 for details.

I've personally seen hundreds of different TG women of all varieties here in Chicago over the years when I was out-and-about a lot, and believe me, males can be women and females can be men.

Male and female are determined by genes, man and woman describe social roles and gender identities.


I've met enough TG women and men to confidently say that any woman that you see in the course of your day, except for pregnant ones of course, could be genetically male, and any man that you meet could be a genetic female. This is something that's hard to grasp if you haven't personally experienced it and actually met a wide variety of T-people, not just CD's, in person.






You're assuming I haven't actually met a wide variety of T-people, not just CD's, in person? You'd be incorrect in that assumption. :happy:

I'm gonna probably get in trouble here, but Webster's is my friend:

Main Entry: wom&#183;an
Pronunciation: 'wu-m&n, especially Southern 'wO- or 'w&-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural wom&#183;en /'wi-m&n/
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English wIfman, from wIf woman, wife + man human being, man
1 a : an adult female person b : a woman belonging to a particular category (as by birth, residence, membership, or occupation) -- usually used in combination <councilwoman>



Main Entry: man
Pronunciation: 'man, in compounds "man or m&n
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural men /'men, in compounds "men or m&n/
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English man, mon human being, male human; akin to Old High German man human being, Sanskrit manu
1 a (1) : an individual human; especially : an adult male human (2) : a man belonging to a particular category (as by birth, residence, membership, or occupation) -- usually used in combination <councilman>


Again, I'll ask that you and I agree to disagee on this point.

Thailand is extremely accepting of transgenderism. MANY TS's choose to go there for SRS, and not only because their prices are a fraction of the cost here in the USA.

I have no prejudices about CD/TS. I simply prefer to be a realist. I was born a woman and will die a woman. No amount of clothing, makeup or surgery will ever change that. That is MY reality, yours can be anything you choose. :happy:

[Karren H]

Pretty bunch of guys!!!

Love Karren

[GINA-CD]

Wow, it's true they are all beautiful but it's also true that mother nature helped them as the note says giving them a smaller frame and delicate bodies... but yes, they are very beautiful.

[Jordan18]

If only I was born in Thailand. Those girls have naturally feminine bodies. Some of them I can't even think they were once boys. Lovely.

-Jordan

[Julie York]

Hnayagh gnught kon meeeeeeeeeeeeing no mahhaneg nahhhng.


I think that covers it.

[Julogden]

[QUOTE=Julogden;580009]Hi Vanya,

As I said in my posting, I have been to pageants like that one, only at the national level here in the USA, and have known people who were contestants, and many of them are transsexuals. You're right, it didn't say that the contest was for transsexuals, but I have read about this pageant before, so I knew that the Thai girls in that pageant are mostly TS's, see http://www.dallasvoice.com/artman/exec/view.cgi/22/2233 for details.

I've personally seen hundreds of different TG women of all varieties here in Chicago over the years when I was out-and-about a lot, and believe me, males can be women and females can be men.

Male and female are determined by genes, man and woman describe social roles and gender identities.


I've met enough TG women and men to confidently say that any woman that you see in the course of your day, except for pregnant ones of course, could be genetically male, and any man that you meet could be a genetic female. This is something that's hard to grasp if you haven't personally experienced it and actually met a wide variety of T-people, not just CD's, in person.






You're assuming I haven't actually met a wide variety of T-people, not just CD's, in person? You'd be incorrect in that assumption. :happy:

I'm gonna probably get in trouble here, but Webster's is my friend:

Main Entry: wom·an
Pronunciation: 'wu-m&n, especially Southern 'wO- or 'w&-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural wom·en /'wi-m&n/
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English wIfman, from wIf woman, wife + man human being, man
1 a : an adult female person b : a woman belonging to a particular category (as by birth, residence, membership, or occupation) -- usually used in combination <councilwoman>



Main Entry: man
Pronunciation: 'man, in compounds "man or m&n
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural men /'men, in compounds "men or m&n/
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English man, mon human being, male human; akin to Old High German man human being, Sanskrit manu
1 a (1) : an individual human; especially : an adult male human (2) : a man belonging to a particular category (as by birth, residence, membership, or occupation) -- usually used in combination <councilman>


Again, I'll ask that you and I agree to disagee on this point.

Thailand is extremely accepting of transgenderism. MANY TS's choose to go there for SRS, and not only because their prices are a fraction of the cost here in the USA.

I have no prejudices about CD/TS. I simply prefer to be a realist. I was born a woman and will die a woman. No amount of clothing, makeup or surgery will ever change that. That is MY reality, yours can be anything you choose. :happy:
Hi again Vanya,

If you've met lots of TS's, I'm puzzled as to why you wouldn't accept their self-definition as women or men.

I feel that if a male self-identifies as a woman, lives as a woman 24/7, is accepted in society as a woman, then that person is a woman, and if a female self-identifies as a man, lives 24/7 as a man and is accepted as a man, then that person is a man.

That's all I'm saying, and of course, you are free to disagree with any of the above.:happy:

In the case of defining gender terms, Webster's is hardly the definitive authority when it comes to TG matters, that simply shows the common usage of words along with their history of usage, and doesn't neccessarily reflect how definitions of words have changed in recent society. Regarding the words you looked up, I could quote transgender-specific sources with definitions that would differ considerably from Webster's that are, in my opinion, more accurate.

And I certainly won't argue with your self-assessment, but I also believe that a MTF TS was born a woman and will die a woman too.:happy:

Carol:hugs:

[Marla GG]

I also believe that a MTF TS was born a woman and will die a woman too.

Carol, thank you for saying this. I am appalled at the direction this thread is taking. I think that any educated person knows that "man" and woman" are social categories which have no essential basis in biology. Biology doesn't determine gender. Heck, it isn't even very good at determining sex. There are XY women (many supermodels are thought to be XY); there are women without ovaries or breasts; there are women who produce too much testosterone and have facial hair and clitorises that look more like penises. Likewise, there are men born without the usual male sex organs, and/or who don't develop the typical male secondary sex characteristics at puberty, but who still identify as men. And then there are intersexed people who are neither one nor the other. The fact is, there is no single biological maker that unequivocally makes one male or female, let alone a man or a woman.

If you ask me how I know am a woman, the answer is simple: I just "know." Even if I'd been raised as a boy, I would still know. I am not expected to prove it to anyone by taking a genetic test or listing all the life experiences I've had that qualify me for womanhood. And in the same way, transsexual women just "know" that they are women too, and shouldn't have to prove it any more than I do.

I am posting this because I would not want anyone to get the false impression that all genetic women believe in a narrow-minded, ignorant, essentialist definition of gender. I don't really understand the motives of someone who would want to exclude our transsexual sisters from the category of womanhood. As far as I am concerned, if you believe you are a woman, then you are. End of story.

And a note on termnology: in Thailand, "transsexual" and "transvestite" are often used (or translated) interchangeably.

[GG Vanya]

Carol, thank you for saying this. I am appalled at the direction this thread is taking. I think that any educated person knows that "man" and woman" are social categories which have no essential basis in biology. Biology doesn't determine gender. Heck, it isn't even very good at determining sex. There are XY women (many supermodels are thought to be XY); there are women without ovaries or breasts; there are women who produce too much testosterone and have facial hair and clitorises that look more like penises. Likewise, there are men born without the usual male sex organs, and/or who don't develop the typical male secondary sex characteristics at puberty, but who still identify as men. And then there are intersexed people who are neither one nor the other. The fact is, there is no single biological maker that unequivocally makes one male or female, let alone a man or a woman.

If you ask me how I know am a woman, the answer is simple: I just "know." Even if I'd been raised as a boy, I would still know. I am not expected to prove it to anyone by taking a genetic test or listing all the life experiences I've had that qualify me for womanhood. And in the same way, transsexual women just "know" that they are women too, and shouldn't have to prove it any more than I do.

I am posting this because I would not want anyone to get the false impression that all genetic women believe in a narrow-minded, ignorant, essentialist definition of gender. I don't really understand the motives of someone who would want to exclude our transsexual sisters from the category of womanhood. As far as I am concerned, if you believe you are a woman, then you are. End of story.
And a note on termnology: in Thailand, "transsexual" and "transvestite" are often used (or translated) interchangeably.

Nor do I wish to give the false impression that those who think as I do are narrow minded, ignorant, or have an essentialist definition of gender. :happy:

I know my position isn't popular. But it's MY position. I have no problem accepting what a Trans person thinks of themself as. It's their life, they have the right to live it just as they choose, as do I. If "they" feel they are a woman, then to "them" they are a woman. I'll buy that.

My point is, while they have every right to "their" opinion or feeling of what they are, I also have the right to my "own" opinion or feeling pertaining to what they are.

My feeling shouldn't suppress theirs, no more than their feeling should suppress mine. We "are" all individuals, and as such, should not feel pressured to think like lemmings.

For the record, with those I have met and who know my thoughts on this topic, not one has ever attempted to change "my" opinion, nor have they ever expressed offense. The reverse would be true as well.

I am a realist, and stand by my words/convictions regardless of how unpopular they may be. I, just as those in the trans community, must "first" be true to myself. If that means that some view me as ignorant? I'll refer to the following quote:

It is none of my business what others think of me. :happy:

[Julogden]

Nor do I wish to give the false impression that those who think as I do are narrow minded, ignorant, or have an essentialist definition of gender. :happy:

I know my position isn't popular. But it's MY position. I have no problem accepting what a Trans person thinks of themself as. It's their life, they have the right to live it just as they choose, as do I. If "they" feel they are a woman, then to "them" they are a woman. I'll buy that.

My point is, while they have every right to "their" opinion or feeling of what they are, I also have the right to my "own" opinion or feeling pertaining to what they are.

My feeling shouldn't suppress theirs, no more than their feeling should suppress mine. We "are" all individuals, and as such, should not feel pressured to think like lemmings.

For the record, with those I have met and who know my thoughts on this topic, not one has ever attempted to change "my" opinion, nor have they ever expressed offense. The reverse would be true as well.

I am a realist, and stand by my words/convictions regardless of how unpopular they may be. I, just as those in the trans community, must "first" be true to myself. If that means that some view me as ignorant? I'll refer to the following quote:

It is none of my business what others think of me. :happy:
Hi Vanya,

Let me ask you this:

Let's say that tomorrow morning when you wake up, you have somehow been physically transformed into a very masculine-looking male, but you still have your female mind, your female likes and dislikes, taste in clothing, sexual attractions, mentally everything exactly that you are now.

Would you then be a woman or a man? Try to get your mind around that, because that's what it is to be a transsexual. I would still define you as a woman, because that's who you are on the inside, in your very soul.

Carol

[JenniferMint]

Carol, thank you for saying this. I am appalled at the direction this thread is taking.

I have a suggestion. How about everyone ignore GG Vanya's first post in the topic and everything related to it, and let's just get back to talking about the pretty girls?

[CheriTV2006]

I've been around and I've always said that many if not most asians are passable . Everybody i've talked to seen to agree. Cheri.

[Kimmie W]

Oh my! How I wish I could look THAT good!:heehee:

[GG Vanya]

OK, this will be my last response to this thread:

Alternative realities are not something I can relate to. Yes, everyone please just ignore my first post and everything subsequent to it relating to "my" opinions, OK? :D

Feel free to return to your own perceived realities my friends. :happy:

See how easy that is? :happy:

[Katelyn]

THat was an awesome video. The are so lucky to be that beutiful!

[Nike]

I am posting this because I would not want anyone to get the false impression that all genetic women believe in a narrow-minded, ignorant, essentialist definition of gender. I don't really understand the motives of someone who would want to exclude our transsexual sisters from the category of womanhood. As far as I am concerned, if you believe you are a woman, then you are. End of story.

And a note on termnology: in Thailand, "transsexual" and "transvestite" are often used (or translated) interchangeably.

It is interesting to notice that even here in the transgendered community, the most experienced can seem to be "narrow-minded, ignorant, essentialist's" (to borrow a phrase) and interpret gender and sex as synonyms, which they are not.

In terms of sex, they're men. In terms of gender, they are what they present themselves as, feminine. Does that make them women? Maybe yes in the eyes of those who perceive presented gender as sex. Maybe no to those who define "man" and "woman" by sex.

There are three truths in all things human. My truth, your truth and THE truth.

My truth is that I agree that some of these T-girls are pretty.