Is it REALLY about how it feels???

[Significantother GG]

I'm a GG and my SO says he dresses because of how the clothes FEEL. On the strength of this I suggested we buy him trousers, shirts etc in more feminine materials but he says that's not the same. This led to me saying it's obviously not about how the items FEEL and we reached an impass. I'm just trying to understand.

So ladies, tell me......what's the difference between a silk shirt and a silk blouse?

I have a number of these questions and as my SO finds it hard to talk about it I'm hoping you guys can help.

[sarah-smith]

is it perhaps because it helps him feel female? ask him!

he'll know he's dressing as a male in a male silk shirt
he'll know he's dressing as a female in a silk blouse.

you need to talk to each other on this one.

but I'm guessing he feels better as a female

[Kate Simmons]

Once again, it's all about perception. I can look and feel "sexy" in guy clothes as well as girl clothes as Ericka. I don't let the world or the influences in the world dictate fashion to me. Being Ericka (or Richard) to me is a mindset plain and simple. If that sounds like I'm saying that what you wear and your self image is "all in your head", then so be it. It is what it is as far as I'm concerned. The point is to enjoy being yourself.:happy: Ericka/Rich

[Nicole24]

i agree with him wearing female colthes feels great, but for me its not just about the feeling its the 'feeling female' as a whole. its an escape from the 'norm'
Only my gf knows about my dressing (well every one on here to) so i guess you and my gf are in the same situation.
Ask him questions im sure hes got loads he wants to share with you. talking is the key to you both being happy and knowing the limits.

keep asking your questions, you'll find the answeres on here. theres so many great people willing to help.

[Julie York]

The 'feeling' he describes isn't a physical sensation of the clothes. It's the feminisation that creates a mental state that feels good. The difference between a silk shirt and a blouse is that a blouse is a distinctly female article of clothing. It's about psychology.....not materials.

[Significantother GG]

Thanks for the replies so far x

[livy_m_b]

If you do something and you like it and you say "I like this", is that a "feeling"? If someone says, why do you like it and you say "I like the way I feel" or "I like the way it makes me feel" or "I like the feeling", is that an explanation? The way different people describe the feeling varies quite a bit and depends partly on how introspective or not or articulate the person is. There can be various feelings involved in the feeling: tactile sensations, a sexual buzz, a feeling of relaxation, of things being more the way they're 'sposed to be, of being more attractive (regardless of the reality!), etc. Outside of groups like this one there's not even a community in which people share the experience to get others' reactions and see how they describe it and adjust their own descriptions, and even in groups like this, different people end up anyhow with different statements about what's going on. Even the same person at different points in their life will describe it differently. Good luck! :)

[Alisa]

Yes.

Dressing is very sensual but it is not just about touch although I would agree that tactile sensation plays a big part. The fragrance associated with feminine hygiene products; makeup and perfume are all part of the experience. The taste of lipstick mixed with your morning coffee and the sight of the lipstick on the side of the cup contribute to the feeling. The sound of your heals clicking along the pavement, complements about your look and, if you lucky, a sweet feminine voice when you speak are very satisfying. Last but certainly not least, is the pleasure derived from looking in the mirror and seeing a woman looking back.

I think all of the senses contribute to our desire to dress. Of course everyone is different in terms of what is most important and touch is right up there at the top but you would be hard pressed to look around on this site and argue that the visual sense does not play a big part as well. That’s probably why the men’s clothing in fine fabrics will just not do!

Remember the word feel can mean a physical sensation as well as an emotional state. When your SO says “it feels good”, she may be talking about the overall perception about oneself in reaction to sensation of dressing including sight, hearing, taste, smell and touch. I think most here would describe that as an emotional state.

Alisa

[Significantother GG]

Once again thanks for your thoughts.

I have to say I cringed when my SO was referred to as 'she'.

I'm never going to be in that place. He is a He whether he's in heels or not.

I married a man who now chooses to follow his desires. I am doing my best to learn, cope and accept this but never, never, never will he be a she to me.

Is that so terrible? Is this going to cause him a major problem? Do I have to put down all my beliefs, own desires, everything that I am to accomodate his dressing?

[Rachael]

I think that there are two aspects to crossdressing. Yes it is is importnat how it feels. I personally always attempt to buy male clothes in femenine colours and styles where possible and enjoy the feel of satin and finely kitted jumpers etc. I can only find true comfort in women's panties as they are much lighter to wear.
There is also the thrill however, of dressing in a skirt and stockings. This is completely different from dresing in a masculine kilt. Personally i do not dress to resemble a GG but just get a frisson from wearing short skirts and panties, with or without tights.

:hugs: Rachael

[Lisa Golightly]

So ladies, tell me......what's the difference between a silk shirt and a silk blouse?

In my case it's the old left/right button thing... I really have issues with male shirts... the buttons are on the wrong side!!! My fingers don't work that way :p

I think what your partner is trying to express is that he wants what he's been denied by accident of birth, rather than feminized versions of his own clothes.

[Tree GG]

Once again thanks for your thoughts.

I have to say I cringed when my SO was referred to as 'she'.

I'm never going to be in that place. He is a He whether he's in heels or not.

I married a man who now chooses to follow his desires. I am doing my best to learn, cope and accept this but never, never, never will he be a she to me.

Is that so terrible? Is this going to cause him a major problem? Do I have to put down all my beliefs, own desires, everything that I am to accomodate his dressing?

Honey, I will not scare you with what is going on in my home now - brought on by my insecurities and his unwillingness to compromise for my feelings of relief. I'm a big believer in that a true partnership requires one partner give up what they want once in awhile simply because the other one wants/needs it. But it has to go both ways. Your line in the sand will be different than mine or his.

Be very clear with yourself & him when you draw that line and make sure you're willing to back it up and can you live with it if he or you crosses that line and the fur flies.

I agree I'll never call him "she". It's his perception of she, and wanting that "she", that gives me issue. I know it's competitive, shallow, "catty", but I'd lie if I said it wasn't true to me.

Try talking to the active GG's here. (Sandra, Kathy, Kitty, Di, Tamara, Vanya to name just a few) These ladies seem to have a healthy outlook and can really give you some calming insights.

[sarahtv]

There are two things to consider for crosdressers:
- gender identity
- gender presentation

For me, gender identity is female. Most of my life is spent presenting as male. When I do dress as female, it is amazing how it just feels right. This has nothing to do with the tactile sensations, it is just a feeling of being whole with my inner self being matched to my outer presentation. I feel stress melt away and a calm comes over me. Gender euphoria is the term I have heard used, and I imagine that only crossdressers can experience this so it will be difficult for GGs to understand this feeling.

Maybe if you tried wearing some guy clothes for an hour or two and then switched, you might experience some of the effect. If you are not a crossdresser, how you feel in the guy clothes is how we feel all the time.

So, please have some sympathy for how your husband is feeling. I guarantee this has been with him for many years. As we get older, the urges get no less and ultimately something happens where the SO discovers and has their life turned upside down. I know it feels like betrayal, but it seems sadly to be the standard for couples with a crossdressing husband. So what you are experiencing now, is normal.

Talk, without getting angry. Be open and responsive. Do not judge. If you can allow him to talk to you and feel you are listening then you can work to a compromise. If he feels you are coming across as negative, he will back off from being honest about how he is feeling and fall back into old habits.

[Sandra]

I've been chatting to Nigella about this and what the difference is, one thing she said was like Erica said some of it is mindset, but also the feel of the clothes are different more freedom. As a GG when I wear a skirt (not very often ;) ) it feels different from a pair of trousers, I do feel more comfy in trousers. I think a lot of CDers can't honestly answer this becasue they don't really know themselves, all most say it just feels different and when asked "how different" they still can' say.

[JenniferR771]

SO,
you are passing up an opportunity here. It is not the silky fabric--you are sooo right. It is the idea it is a feminine garment.
May I suggest: take him shopping in a women's store. And try to find women's clothes that are masculine for him. Women's clothes like a shirt or suit that he could wear out to dinner or even to work. Women's oxfords that he could wear to work? He will be thrilled. Panties and stockings optional. Dress him up special for Friday at the office--he will be stimulated all day and come home ready to consummate anything you have in mind. And no one will know except you two.
Jennifer

[Drucilla]

I acknowledge that part of the "feel" is the fact that the clothes are Women's but it's also about the FIT. For example , a pair of men's jeans can be made of exactly the same material as a pair of women's jeans but when you put on the women's jeans the FIT is entirely different and much more satisfying.
The same can be said for things as simple as a tee shirt.
So--for me at least--its the feel, the fit and the knowledge that it's really a woman's article of clothes that somewhere deep down my mind says I shouldn't be wearing but also enjoys the fact that I am.

[LaFem]

In my case it is simple. I love the feel of the clothes because it makes me feel female. Many others are different.
I hope you two can reach a compromise about this. He can only repress his need. He can never give it up.

[Ranee Daze]

One reply mentioned an escape from the norm, but just what is norm? Look at any other species and you will find that it is the male with the cool feathers, mane, etc. Females in other species are usually drab.
Go back two or three hundred years and you will find mens' fashions which include elegant wigs, silks, velvets, Makeup tights, corsets, fitted sleeves and yards of lace. Look at Johnny Depp's movie "The Libertine". Maybe we were the ones meant for beauty all along. Maybe we are just normal.
Read a bit of "The Diary of Adam and Eve by Mark Twain". In Twain's treatment of the creation myth Adam is revolted by the appearance of "the creature" (Eve) at first.
More to my situation and feelings.....I love the feel of women's undergarments against my skin and the way my outer clothes slide over the silky fabrics. It is an erotic escape for me. But male undies in the same fabrics don't do it for me at all.
It may be more real to say that it is a bit risque to hide such things, or when fully dressed enfemme, "behind" such things and the danger of the discovery is part of the thrill. Perfumes are in the same line. En drab I often wear a female body spray which is on the line between masquiline and feminine. Women love it. They also love blurring the lines a bit, althought they rarely admit it, but forcing their male pride into a silky aquamarine teddy is indeed a sexual turnon for many GG's.
I think you should do a test and feed your Hubby's hobby at will. Buy clothes and perfume for him. Bubble baths, pedicures. Girlie talk... Take him to the salon for a manicure and a real femme doo. Let him grow his hair out and dye it an inescapably femme colour. Shave his back.....indulge him to the max amd then have sex with him enfemme. He will either balk and quit.( and thank you) ..or your sex life will improve 1000000%! and you will thank me!

[Alisa]

Once again thanks for your thoughts.

I have to say I cringed when my SO was referred to as 'she'.

I'm never going to be in that place. He is a He whether he's in heels or not.

I married a man who now chooses to follow his desires. I am doing my best to learn, cope and accept this but never, never, never will he be a she to me.

Is that so terrible? Is this going to cause him a major problem? Do I have to put down all my beliefs, own desires, everything that I am to accomodate his dressing?

I’m so sorry about the “she” reference. That was very insensitive of me and I “feel” just awful. Again, please accept my apologies.

Successful marriages are all about compromise; give and take on both sides. It is not always easy. The best of luck to you and your search for common ground with you spouse.

Love,
Alisa

[MsJanessa]

In my case it's the old left/right button thing... I really have issues with male shirts... the buttons are on the wrong side!!! My fingers don't work that way :p

I think what your partner is trying to express is that he wants what he's been denied by accident of birth, rather than feminized versions of his own clothes.

I've often wondered why they put the bottons on the opposite side----anybody out there know?---as far as it's about the feeling---I feel really good in a male silk shirt(and underwear) but I feel even better in femimine silk clothes----go figure---just makes Me feel sexy---and no I don't want a sex change and am perfectly happy as a male---just like to feel like a female occasionally---

[Bobbi Lynn]

Hi, I have to agree with what all has been said. It's really hard to describe the "feeling(s)", mental or tactile. Re: women's buttons on the left, that is because way back when, women were usually dressed by someone else, (at least "upper class") and it's easier for someone else if the buttons are this way. Try it.

[joanne_mi]

I'm a GG and my SO says he dresses because of how the clothes FEEL. On the strength of this I suggested we buy him trousers, shirts etc in more feminine materials but he says that's not the same. This led to me saying it's obviously not about how the items FEEL and we reached an impass. I'm just trying to understand.

So ladies, tell me......what's the difference between a silk shirt and a silk blouse?

I have a number of these questions and as my SO finds it hard to talk about it I'm hoping you guys can help.

I can only speak for me. It's not just about the 'feeling' of the items. That is a small part of it for myself anyways (if there's guy clothes that can mimic the feeling of a skirt swishing against stocking-clad legs, let me know). It's probably more about the symbols of femininity, which is why I've historically leaned towards skirts and dresses, even though GG's don't wear those much anymore.

With growth comes change though, and I'd just as soon go with a pair of capris and a sensible blouse, which honestly, don't feel any different than most menswear. For me, it's about expressing that other side, or just being true to myself, which I can do in an evening gown, or pants and a shirt.

[Significantother GG]

SO,
you are passing up an opportunity here. It is not the silky fabric--you are sooo right. It is the idea it is a feminine garment.
May I suggest: take him shopping in a women's store. And try to find women's clothes that are masculine for him. Women's clothes like a shirt or suit that he could wear out to dinner or even to work. Women's oxfords that he could wear to work? He will be thrilled. Panties and stockings optional. Dress him up special for Friday at the office--he will be stimulated all day and come home ready to consummate anything you have in mind. And no one will know except you two.
Jennifer

After thinking about him in womens clothes all day I can assure you I will have NOTHING in mind. As for taking him shopping, I didn't marry a Barbie doll. Harsh comments i know but time for a reality check here.

[MarinaTwelve200]

I've often wondered why they put the bottons on the opposite side----anybody out there know?---as far as it's about the feeling---I feel really good in a male silk shirt(and underwear) but I feel even better in femimine silk clothes----go figure---just makes Me feel sexy---and no I don't want a sex change and am perfectly happy as a male---just like to feel like a female occasionally---


The buttons button on the "wrong side" because women often had MAIDS ot another female relative to dress them. Men, on the other hand, often Dressed themselves. Assuming they were usually RIGHT handed, the men had "right handed" buttons---While womwn wo were dressed by others had tohave the buttons on the other side--to make it easier for the dresser--assuming SHE was right handed also, but facing the button from the other direction.


As to FEELING goes. For us "ESCAPIST" CD types, (which I estimate to be about one half of us) it is to FEEL LIKE a "different person" rather than their normal, RL selves. Becomming a "woman" puts the maximum distance between one's normal identity, than rather dressing like ANOTHER man would do.----The idea is to get A "high" or "full relaxation" effect---that completely detaches one from their normal identity.

[Significantother GG]

I’m so sorry about the “she” reference. That was very insensitive of me and I “feel” just awful. Again, please accept my apologies.

Successful marriages are all about compromise; give and take on both sides. It is not always easy. The best of luck to you and your search for common ground with you spouse.

Love,
Alisa

Please don't feel awful. It's just one of those things. It's an area we've not even discussed yet and I'm hoping he won't want to:p

[erica12b]

its how we see it or precevite it.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

As others have said, there's the symbolic aspects.

But to take him strictly as his word, for argument's sake, men's and women's clothing are other cut differently, and consequently do feel different when wearing them.

As Sandra pointed out, there's the obvious difference in between the way pants and a skirt feel. But even if things like a shirt, a women's shirt will often be cut in a far more snug, form-fitting fashion. So it just feels different when worn. Or conversely, there's things like palazzo pants or gaucho pants that have no men's equivalent. Again, it's a different physical sensation.

(To get a feel for this, I'd suggest trying on a man's shirt in a size that's equivalent, but I suspect that experiment won't quite be the same, since men's clothing isn't cut with breast in mind, so you won't get the same sensation that a man would in wearing it. But you might just try looking carefully at the way men's clothing fits vs. women's clothing as you're out in the street.)

One common reason for crossdressing is that we don't necessarily feel attractive in male mode (nor is men's clothing often cut "sexy" in the way men think of it -- i.e. no decolletage, etc.), and since women's clothing often is cut to show off one's body, wearing it can make one feel sexy in a way that men's clothing doesn't.

BTW, it may be hard for him to talk about it for various reasons. First off he just may not fully understand the attraction himself. Second, it may be tied to feelings of "inadequacy" (like not feeling sexy), and I don't think most women truly understanding how men are trained not to reveal vulnerablities. Third, men aren't trained by society to talk about their feelings (in fact it's usually the opposite) so he just may have a difficult time articulating them period.

Anyway, I wish you two luck.

[rachelboy]

I would suggest it is a subtle but significant difference. Knowing the blouse is actually feminine and to be worn by GG as opposed to a shirt which has a more masculine 'cut' and is not feminine.

Also, for me there is a thrill about wearing items that are definitely not male (eg a bra and a camisole). Don't know why though.

Very difficult to answer this question. Psychologists etc have been trying since the beginning of time.

Good luck

rachelboy

[Karren H]

Well it is how they feel...but its how womens clothes feel... Not male clothes made from the same fabric... And its not just womens clothes, for me....its skirts and dresses!! Pants and jeans, mens or womans, have no real appeal to me what so ever.... So its way more than just fabcis!!

Love Karren

[Daphne Renee]

Its is more than just the fabric but its difficult to pin point exactly what it is. I suppose in a way it is all in the mind set of the person. There is a give and take in all relationships.. Sometimes we have to do things we dont want to do just to make the other one happy.

[Jasmine Ellis]

the thing is if i wanted to wear Trousers or Jeans then i wouldn't be a crossdresser i just stay wearing male clothes. For me it feels great wearing a dress, skirts, tops, underwear and the high heels.

Yes, your right about womens Trousers may be differant to male clothes but i for one think if i went out and brought a pair then i may as well go out and buy male Trousers if you see where I'm going with with.

[MJ]

dear Significantother

it seem to me you don't want to deal with this issue please don't get me wrong or get mad at me i am just saying.. that said .. i think your mans perception is the issue here he wants to feel like a woman the cloths are a big part here you can't feel feminine in a mans silk shirt or mans paints he wants womans cloths pantyhose skirts heels tops maybe makeup too thats what will make him feel feminine and i think you need to try and understand why. and thats why you are here but you still seem negative about it i am sorry but you did marry a Barbie doll. again i am sorry but here is your reality check here. this is a big part of him you have to get use to it. you could have fun together or find a compromise :2c: i hope you find your answers hugs

[rickie121x]

Right now I am sitting here typing while wearing a "jeans" material, just over the knee, skirt with a nice leather belt, hi heel leather clogs and nice tee shirt with a lace vee neck. While I have on no makeup, I am enjoying a holistic feminine feeling - even as I am aware that my fingers contact the keypad more delicately.

Is it the clothes that makes the difference? Is it a mood that I move into as I dress? Is it the feeling of the clothes in contact with my body that makes the difference? Of course it is all of those, and - I am sure - a great deal more that I am not able to consciously experience or describe.

It is as if "this moment" everything is right in my world. That's such a good thing.

I have a male life, in which there are times when everything is right in that world also. ...especially when my hormonal system is nicely stimulated by interactions with females. That's a good thing. I so wish it might happen more often!

All of the wonderful forum members who have described their notions about how it feels, have not done a thorough examination - I would believe. The GG's really outdistanced us in clarity of looking at feelings. I just read a Danielle Steel novel and was just astonished at how she could go on writing chapter after chapter about nearly nothing - Women just have this wonderful neuron connection system that allows them to "describe" in detail, at length, with sensitivity, and so completely that it throws me for a loss - astounded!

Well that is one of the many things that differentiate the sexes. And my identifier is definitely male - short, and barely to the point. I do wish I could have contributed more to expose' of "how it feels."

Hugs to all, Rickie :doll:

[sandra-leigh]

Yes, your right about womens Trousers may be differant to male clothes but i for one think if i went out and brought a pair then i may as well go out and buy male Trousers if you see where I'm going with with.

I'm wearing womens' jeans right now, but ones without any ornamentation. My wife thinks they look quite good on me; as far as I know, she doesn't know that I am a "crossdresser" or that they are womens' jeans.

I "live in my head" a lot of the time, in that my work and usual non-dressing passtimes are very mentally based, and I don't usually think about the physical very much, especially when I am engaged in them. (I've been known to tune out my environment sufficiently that I'll suddenly think, "Gee I should put on some music" and to go pick something out, and only then realize that I already have something playing!)

When I am lost in thought, these jeans are just jeans, merely "what did I put on today? Oh yeah, jeans".

But when I am not lost in thought, then Yes, they do feel different -- different in knowing that it's my little secret at the very least, and different in feeling better fitting and more comfortable. The stretch they put into women's jeans and pants these days are nice; the mens' jeans that I bought at the same time feel noticable stiffer and bunch up rather than flow, and the crotch feels too low on the mens' jeans when everything else is placed comfortably.

I also manage to find womens' pants that colours and styles that aren't actually sold for men, and yet are not obviously female. My yellow pants for example -- well within the range of colours and styles that "look fine" on a guy, quite plausible that I bought them at Eagle or perhaps somewhere at Sears menswear that people hadn't happened to have looked. How many guys pay attention to what colours of mens' casuals are sold where? We're notorious for just going in, ignoring everything except the one style we want, buying quick and getting out... :) "No yellow pants sold here? Uhh, I never noticed"

[Mary Morgan]

As I thought about your question, "Is it really about how it feels?", I had to ask myself to try to put into words what "feels" means to me. I cannot speak for anyone else. There are several components to this issue of feeling. First when I anticipate the time I will have to dress I get excited, not openly, but excited like a younster waiting for Santa Claus. When I dress, the reality that I am doing something that I usually cannot do but wish to do is exciting and at once calming and peaceful. Looking into the mirror and seeing the reflected image of my female self is calming and validating, and the reality of the clothing on me feels liberating and right. These are feelings I do not get from any other source. I believe that if my dressing were not an issue, I could get these feelings in the normal course of my life in other activities while presenting as male or female. To me it is the feeling of being yourself. Louise

[Sam-antha]

Wearing a pair of tights under trousers, in winter, to keep the cold out on the hills does not feel the same as wearing the same pair with a skirt in summer.
That is how it is.

[Tree GG]

As for taking him shopping, I didn't marry a Barbie doll. Harsh comments i know but time for a reality check here.

Thank you for saying that! I often wonder if they would've been attracted to us in the beginning if we were so high maintenance & vain?

[GG Vanya]

dear Significantother

it seem to me you don't want to deal with this issue please don't get me wrong or get mad at me i am just saying.. that said .. i think your mans perception is the issue here he wants to feel like a woman the cloths are a big part here you can't feel feminine in a mans silk shirt or mans paints he wants womans cloths pantyhose skirts heels tops maybe makeup too thats what will make him feel feminine and i think you need to try and understand why. and thats why you are here but you still seem negative about it i am sorry but you did marry a Barbie doll. again i am sorry but here is your reality check here. this is a big part of him you have to get use to it. you could have fun together or find a compromise :2c: i hope you find your answers hugs

And this is supposed to help SignificantOther in what regard? No, she did *not* marry a Barbie Doll. She wasn't even afforded the courtesy of making an informed decision about the *man* she thought she was choosing to spend the rest of her life with.

Significant, your feelings are valid and justifiable. While I cannot begin to fully understand your feelings and emotions (I was informed of my husband's gender duality *well* in advance of any emotional investment.) I strongly urge you to join the GG only section. There are females there who have walked in your shoes, some still are, and are so very willing to share their insights (instead of incites) with you.

MJ, even as accepting as I am about my husband Trudi, calling him a Barbie Doll is offensive to me. Comparing the beautiful soul that is my lifemate to an unrealist distorted fantasy of my birth gender is preposterous.

I'm beginning to see a correlation here: The level of the SO's acceptance is directly related to the size of the CD husband's ego.

CDs take heed. Pay attention to the trend: the CD pushes too hard, the once accepting or struggling to accept SO retreats.

[Nigella]

CDs take heed. Pay attention to the trend: the CD pushes too hard, the once accepting or struggling to accept SO retreats.

and the further the SO retreats the harder it will be for you to win the war of acceptance.

Time I think for some CDs to accept that the battle can be lost, but the war can end in a truce, as long as the terms are acceptable to both sides.

[Erica4U]

I was delighted to see a GG here and talking and discussing and wondering about Crossdressing! I believe dressing is different for many CDs. Like your SO, a satin blouse has more meaning than a satin shirt for me! For me, even though I am a masculine good looking male, I look male! My desire to wear old fashioned nylon stockings and a girdle along with heels and bra, skirt or dress and or blouse is about feeling feminine! It is about having the presona I wish I was! It's about feeling a sense of warmth throughout my soul and a feeling of being! Being? Yes being who I actually feel I am! Why is it I love fashion, it's easier for me to have discussions with woman than men, I am so attracted to women I see woman as art and beauty and far more intelligent than most men! I support woman's issues and care about women in general yet when I put on a Yves St. Laurant double breasted suit, I look like a very masculine man with the physique of a retired football player belly included! It is about freedom of the spirit and feeling warm all over and knowing! Yes Knowing that this is who you REALLY are! How many times has a crossdresser bought clothes and heels only to throw them away because of feelings of guilt or feelings of being dearranged? For me it was 7 times over a 30 year period! Do you have any idea how much money was wasted and how many wonderful garments I wasted? Only to buy more! I don't do that anymore because I have finally come to the realization that my crossdressing will never go away! It is who I am and it is withing my spirit and soul and my heart! Love your crossdresser because he seeks love like you do and you and your CD have so much more in common than you think! It can be very rewarding, fun and exciting for both of you! I envy you dearly! My wife doesn't mind my dressing but she does mind my wanting to look feminine with real boobs and feminine facial surgery to get rid of the large brow, put a curve in my nose and make it more dainty, better cheek bones, higher eyebrows and a softer forehead along with a different shaping to my jaw line. Far from where your crossdresser is! I am a very lonely and sad within my heart and spirit because I am not who I am really! Fears rule my life!

[MJ]

Vanya
i am sorry i did not mean to offend you or s.o for that matter. her man is cding so in a way he is a Barbie doll. and your 's too. when we dress up we put on womens cloths heels and makeup. what do you put on Barbie ??. I did not mean to offend it seems a good description to me .. that said
everyone who reads this thread take heed if you are dateing... then before you ask her to marry you or get the ring.. you should tell her you are a cross dresser if she sticks around. then after a few months of testing the waters. then get the ring you don't want to waste your money!!. think of the outfits you could buy.

Significantother is now going through hell trying to come to terms with this terrible burden she has to carry i do feel for you..

but at the same time her man is in pain too ..this is a part of him and it will not go away and i feel for you too..

it is way too late for me and my so.. but you both must find a common ground that you can accept

[GG Vanya]

Vanya
i am sorry i did not mean to offend you or s.o for that matter. her man is cding so in a way he is a Barbie doll.

No, her husband is a dual gendered soul who is searching for acceptance. To equate him with an object of plastic is crass.

and your 's too.

Please don't presume to speak for me and mine. :straightface:

when we dress up we put on womens cloths heels and makeup. what do you put on Barbie ??.

I put away childish things when I matured. Barbie Dolls were, and are, *toys*. My husband is neither.


I did not mean to offend it seems a good description to me .. that said
everyone who reads this thread take heed if you are dateing... then before you ask her to marry you or get the ring.. you should tell her you are a cross dresser if she sticks around. then after a few months of testing the waters. then get the ring you don't want to waste your money!!. think of the outfits you could buy.

I'm wondering, if you really try, could you be any more insensitive?????:eek:


Significantother is now going through hell trying to come to terms with this terrible burden she has to carry i do feel for you..

but at the same time her man is in pain too ..this is a part of him and it will not go away and i feel for you too..

If we are to "weigh" the wrongs here, to decide who has more right to be in pain, I'd err on the side of the one who was honest from the get go.


it is way too late for me and my so.. but you both must find a common ground that you can accept


I still think many of the marriages that fail when this subject comes out, do so because of insensitivity, boorishness and the me mentality of one, or both, of the parties involved.

[Julie York]

I often wonder if they would've been attracted to us in the beginning if we were so high maintenance & vain?

Many CDs on this forum don't appreciate broad statements from bitter GGs that are, when you get down to it, just tactless insults to vent their own disapproval of crossdressing.

[Sandra]

Many CDs on this forum don't appreciate broad statements from bitter GGs that are, when you get down to it, just tactless insults to vent their own disapproval of crossdressing.


Geez what ever next :Angry3: :Angry3:

[GG Vanya]

Many CDs on this forum don't appreciate broad statements from bitter GGs that are, when you get down to it, just tactless insults to vent their own disapproval of crossdressing.


Julie,

TBH, I didn't take exception to this comment simply because I know it doesn't apply to me and mine. Good lord, Trudi is so low maintenance that at times I feel guilty that she buys for me instead of for herself.

I understand that Tree is speaking about those who ARE vain and high maintenance. The odd thing is..those who are so vain are the ones who have the least reason to be. :devil: Beauty is so much more than skin deep.

I also understand that personalities of CDs are just as varied as those of the genetic females they aspire to emulate. There are the good, the bad, and the ugly personalities in each.

[Julie York]

The place to bitch about crossdressers, if you have any sense, is NOT on a crossdressers forum! Is it?

There's a private GG section where you can make as many negative comments as you wish in private. I would not expect to make many friends by going to a boating enthusiasts forum and bitching about how I hate boating.

GG Vanya ...thank you for your balanced view.

[Sandra]

There's a private GG section where you can make as many negative comments as you wish in private. I would not expect to make many friends by going to a boating enthusiasts forum and bitching about how I hate boating.

GG Vanya ...thank you for your balanced view.

So now we can't make any negative comments in the main forum, next you'll want us to stop posting altogether.

[MJ]

hi there again sorry i was not trying to be insensitive about this. and vanya thank you for calling me a dual gendered soul who is searching for acceptance . did not mean any harm .. and i truly do feel for all of us here who have and are going through difficult times. and i understand well try to understand what you gg have to deal with .. i know i made very big mistakes keeping my secret from my wife . my god if only i could have done things differently we might have still been together i relay love her so .. but i messed up and paid a terrible price for my secret and the pain will never go away. i just don't want it to happen to anyone else.. now i live a lonely life thanks to my actions and it hurts so bad sometimes. if you love your man so much then what difference does it make if we like to dress fem now and again .. he goes out to work pays bills and a good husband / farther. except for a little fem time to himself and because of that his whole world comes crashing down over a little thing like crossdressing... if everything else in the marriage is just fine then whats the big deal.. we are not hurting anybody we just want to be who we are i hope i have not offended anyone i am sorry if i have it's not why i posted
need to go and dry my eyes the bottom line here is if you love someone what does it matter all the best

[Julie York]

Maybe this should be moved to a new thread if it's going to be slugged out in public.

If you read the actual statement I made it was in reference to a couple of GGs (not ALL, I never said ALL) who use this forum to be blatantly hostile because of their own negativity to the subject. This forum, as I understood it, is a place for people who want to understand the subject, to ask their questions and be given varying views.

It is not, as I understood it, a place where ANYONE is granted the right to make snide remarks about the entire CD population just because they are having a difficult time with it. If they do they should expect some feedback....probably negative....instead of being granted support by a hoard screaming for blood.

Or am I wrong?

[Julie York]

Seriously, you think that's all we ever do in there, don't you?

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

I bet I am being spoken of in glowing terms as we speak.

:D

[Sandra]

I bet I am being spoken of in glowing terms as we speak.

:D


Now that is egotistical, we have better things to talk about

[GG Vanya]

hi there again sorry i was not trying to be insensitive about this. and vanya thank you for calling me a dual gendered soul who is searching for acceptance . did not mean any harm .. and i truly do feel for all of us here who have and are going through difficult times. and i understand well try to understand what you gg have to deal with .. i know i made very big mistakes keeping my secret from my wife . my god if only i could have done things differently we might have still been together i relay love her so .. but i messed up and paid a terrible price for my secret and the pain will never go away. i just don't want it to happen to anyone else.. now i live a lonely life thanks to my actions and it hurts so bad sometimes. if you love your man so much then what difference does it make if we like to dress fem now and again .. he goes out to work pays bills and a good husband / farther. except for a little fem time to himself and because of that his whole world comes crashing down over a little thing like crossdressing... if everything else in the marriage is just fine then whats the big deal.. we are not hurting anybody we just want to be who we are i hope i have not offended anyone i am sorry if i have it's not why i posted
need to go and dry my eyes the bottom line here is if you love someone what does it matter all the best

1. Actually it was Significantother's SO that I called a dual gendered soul searching for acceptance. :happy:

2. In your particular case MJ, isn't it *much* more than liking to dress fem now and again??? Aren't you, in fact, on the road to SRS?

For so very many SO's, they fear exactly that. That it's not "just crossdressing" and will eventually lead to their genetic man doing all he can to become a woman. I think they also fear that the more they accept, the more real this possibility is.

In fact, I see *many* who post here in the CD section who I perceive to be decidedly TS rather than CD. Only they know their reasons for wishing to identify as "just a CD".


Surely you can understand that, for some SO's, it's *soooo* much more than their man sometimes putting on a dress???

[tall_brianna]

Many CDs on this forum don't appreciate broad statements from bitter GGs that are, when you get down to it, just tactless insults to vent their own disapproval of crossdressing.

:iagree:

Here, freaking here.

I tried to stay out of this one for fear of drawing further wrath of the GGs but it absolutely amazes me that we are being called insensitive. From all I can tell of the last few threads SO, I think MsJanessa was right yesterday.

I do get you on the he/she thing. I personally have trouble comparmentalizing this part of me under a different title and name.

He/she/it/Brianna/Bri/Tom/Dick/Harry
boxers/silk panties/....
skirt/pants

none of it matters to me - I am what I am and that's all that I am.

[GG Vanya]

I bet I am being spoken of in glowing terms as we speak.

:D


Nahhhh we actually talk about which color panties we like the most, our shopping trips, how femme our bedroom is and which brand of feminine hygeine product smells the nicest. <supercalifragilisticexpialidocious smirk>

[Kimberly]

The 'feeling' he describes isn't a physical sensation of the clothes. It's the feminisation that creates a mental state that feels good. The difference between a silk shirt and a blouse is that a blouse is a distinctly female article of clothing. It's about psychology.....not materials.
oui oui. Well put. xx

[tall_brianna]

"then before you ask her to marry you or get the ring.. you should tell her you are a cross dresser if she sticks around. then after a few months of testing the waters. then get the ring you don't want to waste your money!!. think of the outfits you could buy."

She clearly meant that she found this statement insensitive, and that insensitivity was one of the main problems in a relationship where they split up in the end... She never called CDs in general insensitive... and I know this much, from all the posts I've read from her, that she would never say anything that even could come close to such a remark.

Whoops, my bad. Sorry.

I certainly did however take insult to some of the things said here and IMMHO the undercurrent is tasting pretty bitter.

[Sandra]

Isn't it time for this to go back on topic.

[MJ]

in Vanya defense i was being a ass and should have not said some of the things i said sorry Vanya. i deserve it.

2. In your particular case MJ, isn't it *much* more than liking to dress fem now and again??? Aren't you, in fact, on the road to SRS?
yes Vanya i am real close now April

For so very many SO's, they fear exactly that. That it's not "just crossdressing" and will eventually lead to their genetic man doing all he can to become a woman. I think they also fear that the more they accept, the more real this possibility is.
Vanya i think you have a very good point there but what are the chances of that. men marry woman for a reason i find it hard to believe he would do that..
except me i have not met another ts who done the same as me

In fact, I see *many* who post here in the CD section who I perceive to be decidedly TS rather than CD. Only they know their reasons for wishing to identify as "just a CD".
well Vanya maybe they don't know them selves you know cding is a very difficult issue to deal with try and admit to your self you are a transsexual then decide to have srs " i would relay love to talk to you in depth about that" it is a long and hard road to go down .. even then there are some now new girls who after two or three years want to be turned back in men ...it is so hard to get that damm letter for surgery because of that very reason..

Surely you can understand that, for some SO's, it's *soooo* much more than their man sometimes putting on a dress???

yes i can understand that again you are so right. but thats why we are here to learn and to understand each other in peace and harmony

[GG Vanya]

in Vanya defense i was being a ass and should have not said some of the things i said sorry Vanya. i deserve it.

apology accepted

2. In your particular case MJ, isn't it *much* more than liking to dress fem now and again??? Aren't you, in fact, on the road to SRS?
yes Vanya i am real close now April

For so very many SO's, they fear exactly that. That it's not "just crossdressing" and will eventually lead to their genetic man doing all he can to become a woman. I think they also fear that the more they accept, the more real this possibility is.
Vanya i think you have a very good point there but what are the chances of that. men marry woman for a reason i find it hard to believe he would do that..
except me i have not met another ts who done the same as me

Believe me men marry women for more than one reason. I hardly think that point invalidates the possibility of a CD progressing to TS. Every TS started out as a CD did they not? I have yet to encounter a TS who simply woke up one morning while living in a totally male mode for their entire life and called a doctor to schedule SRS and HRT. While you may have never met another CD turned TS, please check out the TS section of this forum. There is a rather large contingent there comprised of TS's and their SO's.

In fact, I see *many* who post here in the CD section who I perceive to be decidedly TS rather than CD. Only they know their reasons for wishing to identify as "just a CD".


well Vanya maybe they don't know them selves you know cding is a very difficult issue to deal with try and admit to your self you are a transsexual then decide to have srs " i would relay love to talk to you in depth about that" it is a long and hard road to go down .. even then there are some now new girls who after two or three years want to be turned back in men ...it is so hard to get that damm letter for surgery because of that very reason..

I know all too well how difficult the CDing can be. Remember, I'm married to one. And even with my deep level of acceptance, I still acknowledge that Trudi doesn't walk an easy path by any means.

We also have a friend in FL who started out as a CD, then progressed to TS, and eventually went to Thailand for the SRS. Though not married, she was in a *very* committed relationship (absolutely accepting and encouraging SO) to another friend of ours. The hormones wreaked such havoc on the TS that for a time they split up. To say we were shocked at this turn of events should tell you how committed they were.

I think it's a *good* thing that the letter is difficult to obtain. Going under the scalpel for SRS is not reversable. As it is, I think far too many try to "cheat" and take shortcuts on that TS road. No amount of advise from those who have travelled before will convince them that the map set out for this journey is for their best.


Surely you can understand that, for some SO's, it's *soooo* much more than their man sometimes putting on a dress???

yes i can understand that again you are so right. but thats why we are here to learn and to understand each other in peace and harmony

I'm sure I come across to many here as being cold and uncaring. Nothing could be further from the truth. I've just lived R/T in this strange land of dual genders and know the pitfalls from the SO's side and the struggles from the TG's side because of my marriage to one.

[ashlee chiffon]

*wigging my skirted hips in...seeing the room heat up with the vibes....and tiptoeing back out...trying to keep my heels from clicking tooo loud...thinkin'...better not get involved in this one after seeing Vanya's post!*

[GG Vanya]

Ashley,

Why on earth do you say that? Have I not been civil and tactful, even polite, with my responses in this thread?

[shelly gg]

Hi significantother,
I will tell you, I have fun with my man and his desire to dress femme. I feel close to him because he chose to share it with me instead of sneaking around every moment I wasn't around to put some crumpled up longerie on that he is hiding in the back of the closet in a bag. To me, that would have been the same as cheating, to be honest. But he was up front with me. I know he dresses when I'm not around now and when I am around as well and, for the most part I am perfectly fine with that because he confided in me up front. I have no problem calling him "her" when he's dressed and sometimes it can be kind of fun and sometimes arrousing.

But, I can totally relate to your core fear. The fear that he want's to be a "true" she and eventually might not want to remain in a traditional union with you as a woman. The fear that perhaps you had something to do with it for "not being enough of a woman for him". The resentment that you signed up to be in a man/woman union through life together and not a woman/woman. The reality that sometimes our SO's go overboard with their love of dressing to the point of sometimes neglecting us and being totally self obsorbed or taking compulsive risks that might bring scruitiny or the embarrasment of our community on us and we have no power to do anything about it.

It is alot of strain for any of us, and completely understandable if you are having problems with it.

For me it is a roller coater ride of me flopping between acceptance and unacceptance continually. My philosophy is, he is imposing this on me, and I will accept it as long as he remains respectful of my boundaries with it. And those boundaries change constantly. So, communication is the key. He isn't a mind reader so I have to let him know if I am not in the mood to deal with it or if he is crossing a newly established line. And I feel he is obligated to respect that and act accordingly since he is imposing. It has to be give and take by BOTH parties or it won't work.

So, I know I haven't helped you at all, because every woman (GG as were crowned here) has her own boundaries, no two the same. But, I hope you now see that there are people out here "in the same boat, in a stormy sea, and we owe each other a terrible loyalty". So you always have someone to talk to.

[veryhappyto0]

"Once more into the breach, dear friends, once more, or fill the wall up with our dead."

I have read all the tread and although hard to follow in some places, I am of the opinion the GG's are right.. unless you told your SO before marrage you have not been honest with them or yourself....I am in that same catagory. Attack me as you will but

I think the revolation of the CD to thier SO is maybe worse than telling her you just had an affair.....you have in a way, but the other woman is you. She can't even confront the other woman, she can't talk to her friends....or family most of the time. And we will lie......not intentionally but because most of us don't have the answers ourselves.

I could go on, and will if needed, but I understand the confusion, anger and sarcasum. I wish I could help but know I can't, except to answer thier questions as honestly as I can and suggest, at risk of upsetting everyone in the room, that professioal help may be needed to work through the pain- at least a clergy or doctor will listen.

[Satrana]

Ahhhhh.....gender wars on a transgendered forum.....don't you just love them? :D

For the record, I support Julie's view. For many cds, forums like this are their only outlet for a guilt they have suppressed all their lives and as such this forum acts like a support group. While criticism is ok, it should be put diplomatically so as not to cause further emotional harm. There is an obvious lack of empathy shown here as there have been a number or crass comments which have gone over the line and are distinctly insensitive.

To go back to an earlier post....



I married a man who now chooses to follow his desires. I am doing my best to learn, cope and accept this but never, never, never will he be a she to me.
Then you should ask him about this point. Many cds do not actually think of themselves as a woman. It is more of a polite convention to talk about "she" and use a female name. Some confuse the desire to express femininity with the thought this means there is a woman trapped inside. On the other hand he may in fact have a strong sense of being a woman so this may be important to him. You need to ask him to think about this - how much of his own personality does he consider to be masculine or feminine.



Is that so terrible? Is this going to cause him a major problem? Do I have to put down all my beliefs, own desires, everything that I am to accomodate his dressing?
But what are your beliefs - that a man must always be a man? Do you feel it is wrong for a man to want to feel pretty, to feel feminine? Do you feel it is wrong for women to join the army, to box professionally, to climb Mount Everest etc. Do these women also break your beliefs or is it ok for women to explore masculinity but not the other way around?

I know it is very difficult to separate your emotions that "you need a man" for a partner from the reality that men are not what you think they are. Even non-cd men are really just faking it - they are conditioned to avoid all things feminine even though all men have feminine traits. Your husband is just using clothing as a tool to break through this entrenched mental barrier so that he can express himself the way he is.

Why some men feel compelled to do this is not clear, but ask yourself if this is really a bad thing? Or would you rather that he continue to suppress himself and be unhappy for the rest of his life so that you can have a "real man".

If you love him, if he has been a good partner to you, then why not step outside the box and go on an adventure with him to see where it leads. Why not look at this issue with a positive slant instead of a negative one.

[Michelia]

For what it's worth. I am new so I cannot compare in wisdom and experience to the eloquent and not so eloquent voices heard here. I must chime in though because this issue speaks to the heart of what we are. I second Satrana's opinion. Further, I resent this GG vs. CD thing. At some point it is all about trying to find common ground - if you care enough! And if you do, you may find a better relationship you ever dreamed of. Some relationships may sadly not work out as in the rest of the non-CD world. Things change, people change and sometimes we have to be willing to adapt and negotiate and understand and give and take. Sometimes we cannot.

One clarification I must observe: the first one to refer to her husband as a Barbie Doll was Significant Other. This may be appropriate or inappropriate. I think it is a matter of opinion. It does not insult me to be called a Barbie Doll. The point is whether Significant Other is a barbie doll or not does not matter. He is something she does not seem willing to accept at this time.

I have been blessed in that my SO has totally participated in my activities after her initial shock and it has improved our marriage significantly. I have learned to give and take and control myself and not be so obsessive about my femininity at all times. But she has truly learned to love that girl within me. When I am a girl, she calls me she. I have in turn love her infinitely and it made me much more vulnerable and communicative. But when she wants her man back I am there for her. I consider myself the luckiest man/girl alive. I could never think of ending this marriage or becoming a TS. Why would I want to?

And the feeling, the feelings. When I feel feminine I feel like I am a woman. I do not always understand why. I am tired of asking myself why. It happens often. Sometimes it happens all the time. It is wonderful. And when I feel like that my sensitivity to all things is heightened. I see life in a different light. I am more sharing with my loved ones. But if and when I put on my girlie clothes I am then complete.

Significant Other: Open your heart to that man of yours and the girl within. And set your limitations and your expectations. He need to know what your limits are and respect them. If you in turn meet him half way, you may find a totally devoted and committed partner willing to accomodate you half way. If you don't you will have a frustrated husband for life. And this frustration will manifest itself in strange ways. And he needs to do his part as well. If he is totally selfish and uncompromising, he is not a suitable mate.

my two bits

humbly

Michelia

[shelly gg]

Wow, Michelia, at reading a few of the points you made in your thread I felt like a cat ready to bristle and slash out with my claws, but you redeemed yourself at every turn! Very impressive.

To everyone else, I still say, our dear initiator of this thread is beyond reproach at this moment. She has been thrown into a world she didn't ask to be a part of and perhaps will never understand or appreciate. She is reaching out. It is not up to us to condemn her or even to tell her she is right. Who here even knows what truely is right or wrong or why we even do the things we do, let alone explain why someone else does what they do. I think our roll here is to simply express to her that we understand how she might feel the way she does and offer an objective shoulder to cry on, right or wrong.

Let's all just support her decision to post on this forum instead of "outing" her significant other to friends and family and then walking out on him. Even if some of us find the views expressed above offensive, they are still someones innermost thoughts and feelings and therefore have a value, right or wrong.

[GG Vanya]

For what it's worth. I am new so I cannot compare in wisdom and experience to the eloquent and not so eloquent voices heard here. I must chime in though because this issue speaks to the heart of what we are. I second Satrana's opinion. Further, I resent this GG vs. CD thing. At some point it is all about trying to find common ground - if you care enough! And if you do, you may find a better relationship you ever dreamed of. Some relationships may sadly not work out as in the rest of the non-CD world. Things change, people change and sometimes we have to be willing to adapt and negotiate and understand and give and take. Sometimes we cannot.

One clarification I must observe: the first one to refer to her husband as a Barbie Doll was Significant Other.
Actually she said she did *not* marry a Barbie Doll. :happy:

This may be appropriate or inappropriate. I think it is a matter of opinion. It does not insult me to be called a Barbie Doll. The point is whether Significant Other is a barbie doll or not does not matter. He is something she does not seem willing to accept at this time.

I have been blessed in that my SO has totally participated in my activities after her initial shock and it has improved our marriage significantly. I have learned to give and take and control myself and not be so obsessive about my femininity at all times. But she has truly learned to love that girl within me. When I am a girl, she calls me she. I have in turn love her infinitely and it made me much more vulnerable and communicative. But when she wants her man back I am there for her. I consider myself the luckiest man/girl alive. I could never think of ending this marriage or becoming a TS. Why would I want to?

Ahah! and therein lies the crux of the matter. *You* keep it in balance, and have clearly moved beyond the pink fog. The obsessiveness is what frightens the newly informed SO. Some of them feel (and rightfully so) that now that it's out in the open, he's gone hog wild and pig crazy, and they're just along for the ride. It's suddenly all about *him*. They also feel that in accepting this, they are losing the man they married.


And the feeling, the feelings. When I feel feminine I feel like I am a woman. I do not always understand why. I am tired of asking myself why. It happens often. Sometimes it happens all the time. It is wonderful. And when I feel like that my sensitivity to all things is heightened. I see life in a different light. I am more sharing with my loved ones. But if and when I put on my girlie clothes I am then complete.

Significant Other: Open your heart to that man of yours and the girl within. And set your limitations and your expectations. He need to know what your limits are and respect them. If you in turn meet him half way, you may find a totally devoted and committed partner willing to accomodate you half way. If you don't you will have a frustrated husband for life. And this frustration will manifest itself in strange ways. And he needs to do his part as well. If he is totally selfish and uncompromising, he is not a suitable mate.

my two bits

humbly

Michelia

I actually think Significant other *is* trying to be open about this. Her willingness to buy clothes (albeit in masculine cut) made of more feminine texture is proof that she is not totally rejecting every notion regarding her husband crossdressing.

Remember, we don't know how long she's known, or even how she came to know. I also think she's trying to establish boundaries, but she stated in the first post on this thread that her SO is unwilling to talk with her about this, so she came here seeking guidance and answers. Let's also keep in mind that we don't know how much or how little Significantother knows about transgenderism. Even I (who accepted this all with absolutely no hesitation) in the beginning struggled with understanding just *what* it is about CDing that drew Trudi to it.

[Jennaie]

Speaking only for myself here, yes, it is only about how it feels, better stated, about how it makes me feel inside.

[Sandra]

One clarification I must observe: the first one to refer to her husband as a Barbie Doll was Significant Other.

Please read the post correctly, Significant Other said "she had not married a Barbie Doll" she did not refer to her husband as a Barbie Doll.

[Sheila]

Once again thanks for your thoughts.

I have to say I cringed when my SO was referred to as 'she'.

I'm never going to be in that place. He is a He whether he's in heels or not.

I married a man who now chooses to follow his desires. I am doing my best to learn, cope and accept this but never, never, never will he be a she to me.

Is that so terrible? Is this going to cause him a major problem? Do I have to put down all my beliefs, own desires, everything that I am to accomodate his dressing?


Significant ------- NO WAY and if he starts that carry 0n - :kickbutt:and :slap: him hard , remember at the end of the day you are an individual with your own wants needs and desires, your partnership is about you two (yes two) ------ just ask yourself this would you have signed up to the partnership if you knew in the first place that it would end up as three if you can say yes to that then fine, if not then COMPROMISE (are some others listening here) --- thats COMPROMISE is what is needed, never ever in a relationship is it about one person getting what they want or need all the time

Jess

[Sheila]

The place to bitch about crossdressers, if you have any sense, is NOT on a crossdressers forum! Is it?
There's a private GG section where you can make as many negative comments as you wish in private. I would not expect to make many friends by going to a boating enthusiasts forum and bitching about how I hate boating. GG Vanya ...thank you for your balanced view.


If only there were that many negative comments in their trust me there would not be anywhere near the supporting SO's posting on here as there are ------ believe me if you think we are tough on you lot we can be tougher on ourselvefs -------- don't get me wrong we are there to suppoert each other, help each other when things are tough ----------BUT NOT JUST FOR OURSELVES --I for one post in there if there is something really bothering me because I know I can safely do that without hurting either my DH or any other CDr --sometimes when you can't see the wood for the trees you need somebody there to guide you round the branches before taking a wrong turning --------- Get it it's about support --------THAT'S SUPPORT and not just for the GG's but for us all.

Sounds to me like you don't have a supporting SO -------wonder why

Jess

[discovery]

I must absolutely agree that it is not just the tactile be the feminine clothes. Mens clothes just do not suffice.
My wife had the same idea and has tried many times until I had to tell her it was more than just the feel of the fabric. I realize after 50+ years that this is just a part of you that SCREAMS for recognition and expression like any other part of us. I am a general contractor and dig ditches landscape entire homes, build homes personally doing much if not all of the manual work. This is also a part of me along with professionally playing the piano (for fee), shopping, cooking, skiing, hiking, etc.
Men have been so relegated to such NARROWLY defined rules and EXPECTATIONS that do not address our full range of expressions and, wants and needs for so long that they many are quietly suffering in these social prisons. I realize now that I am far more "feminine" than my wife who would rather dress in baggy wrinkled clothes than in soft lace, chiffon, silks that flatter her as a woman but more importantly her outlook on the world in general is harder than softer. I REALLY appreciate the GG's we frequent this site and other wholesome sites like it and I hope the GG's will continue to increase their understanding of men and what really is going on in many of their minds. I believe every part of our beings cries for recognition and expression within the confines of a moral code that enables all to relize their full potential.

[ashlee chiffon]

ohhh...of couse! i just dropped by when you were responding to MJ's post...you seemed a little upset, is all...it came as i was looking into another discussion where Tamara was upset, and another one when someone else was upset...
figured it was a good day to keep quiet! *L*

[Julie York]

Just to clear up a few things....

My original comment was not about anything Significantother said, so was effectively off topic.

Moe GG...The note about starting a new thread was for Tamara, who has the ability to split this thread and so move the 'debate' into a new thread so as to not interrupt this one. So the comment about "no-one cares enough to start a new thread about it" was obviously misunderstood because if I'd wanted a new thread about it I would have started it myself. As to my views being "narrowminded and unenlightened" about GGs, I think if you'd had the courtesy to actually read what I wrote you're reply would have been more informed and less of a personal attack.

The reason the CDs who DO support what I've said and have PMd me to say so, have declined to join in is because of the very reasons illustrated here. They don't want to be jumped on by several people, including the Administrator of their own forum, misreading what was written, and resorting to personal insults by way of a reply. "you aren't important enough" "Sounds to me like you don't have a supporting SO...Wonder why?" etc. THAT'S why others are keeping out of it. Does it make my point any less valid because bullying tactics are rife?

[Tamara Croft]

Since I'm refered to as 'the admin', I've removed my posts as it seems you have forgotten that I'm also a member too. Quite frankly, I'm sick of getting the 'admin' crap shoved down my throat everytime I post. So I shall refrain from posting in this section.

[Sheila]

Tamara,
Why let the idiots get to you, --------------- You are a member and have the same rights as us all to voice your opinion -------------- if others don't like it that is their problem ------- we cannot forver go yeah you go girl go when it affects others and SO'S ARE OTHERS WE HAVE RIGHTS TO only some of the cd's forget the --------- NOTE I SAID SOME

Jess

[Sheila]

Julie York,
I note that you did not reply to the comment I made about whether you had a supporting SO or not I wonder why ------------ AND NO I AM NOT ADMIN JUST ANOTHER STUPID FEMALE SUPPORTING HER CDR

JESS(SO)

P.S you really want to talk about bullying tactics try being an SO we know about them

[GG Vanya]

Just to clear up a few things....

My original comment was not about anything Significantother said, so was effectively off topic.

Moe GG...The note about starting a new thread was for Tamara, who has the ability to split this thread and so move the 'debate' into a new thread so as to not interrupt this one. So the comment about "no-one cares enough to start a new thread about it" was obviously misunderstood because if I'd wanted a new thread about it I would have started it myself.

Ummm Julie, when Moe said this about devoting a thread to you, she was replying to *this:



Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Up North U.K.
Posts: 4,335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moe GG
Seriously, you think that's all we ever do in there, don't you?

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

I bet I am being spoken of in glowing terms as we speak.


As to my views being "narrowminded and unenlightened" about GGs, I think if you'd had the courtesy to actually read what I wrote you're reply would have been more informed and less of a personal attack.

The reason the CDs who DO support what I've said and have PMd me to say so, have declined to join in is because of the very reasons illustrated here. They don't want to be jumped on by several people, including the Administrator of their own forum, misreading what was written, and resorting to personal insults by way of a reply. "you aren't important enough" "Sounds to me like you don't have a supporting SO...Wonder why?" etc. THAT'S why others are keeping out of it. Does it make my point any less valid because bullying tactics are rife?

There always seems to be some sort of unlying thread running to discredit, devalue or invalidate anything Tamara says because she is one of the admins.
SHE IS AN SO OF A CD first and foremost. I won't stand behind her when it comes to her right to speak here. By God I'll stand square in front of her and take the heat full force.

As for your remark about CDs being attacked by the administrator of "their own forum" may I remind you Julie, as I reminded the person who took offense at GG's posting pictures: The title of this forum states "The number one community for crossdressers, their family and friends. Tamara is family to a crossdresser, and she damn sure has friends here. Her knowledgeable input is just as important, and more important when it comes to some of the pink foggers, as anyone else's. So :tongueout

(sheesh I wish there was a Yosemite Sam emoticon here!)

[Shelly Preston]

Since I'm referred to as 'the admin', I've removed my posts as it seems you have forgotten that I'm also a member too. Quite frankly, I'm sick of getting the 'admin' crap shoved down my throat every time I post. So I shall refrain from posting in this section.

This forum is for all of the members

Everyone here is a member first and as such should be able to post in the forum without receiving derogatory comments

Moderators and Administrators are only here to ensure the rules are followed for the good of everyone here.

[Julie York]

All I was saying is that is someone wants to take the piss out of MtF crossdressers, it would be best if they didn't do it on the MtF section of a forum for crossdressers, who come here to save their sanity, get some support, and hope that they are not alone.

Is that such a terrible thing?


And yet look at the responses? Look at the comments aimed at me simply because I pointed this out. The reason anyone at all is reading this post right now is because they are either personally associated with a cross dresser or they are one. Therefore, by definition, you'd expect on a support forum for crossdressers that the majority of the members would hope for some support, especially from the people who run it.

So ask yourself....is this a forum FOR crossdressers or is it a forum FOR partners of crossdressers?

Either way.....blatant digs at someone who does it, is not on is it?

And yes Tamara IS a member of this forum and has the right to express anything she wishes. She also has the right to ban anyone who pisses her off. A conflict of interests maybe.

[GG Vanya]

All I was saying is that is someone wants to take the piss out of MtF crossdressers, it would be best if they didn't do it on the MtF section of a forum for crossdressers, who come here to save their sanity, get some support, and hope that they are not alone.

Is that such a terrible thing?


And yet look at the responses? Look at the comments aimed at me simply because I pointed this out. The reason anyone at all is reading this post right now is because they are either personally associated with a cross dresser or they are one. Therefore, by definition, you'd expect on a support forum for crossdressers that the majority of the members would hope for some support, especially from the people who run it.

So ask yourself....is this a forum FOR crossdressers or is it a forum FOR partners of crossdressers?

It's both, and more, it's for friends as well.As such, shouldn't we all have the freedom to voice our views and opinions?


Either way.....blatant digs at someone who does it, is not on is it?

And yes Tamara IS a member of this forum and has the right to express anything she wishes. She also has the right to ban anyone who pisses her off. A conflict of interests maybe.

So do all the other mods and the other admin (she's not the only one). So, what sets her apart from all the rest? And while she may have the "ability", I dare say she'd agree that it's not "right" (read correct) to ban someone simply because they piss her off.

[MJ]

hi TAMARA GG hey there don't get mad you should stay around and post. your wisdom is needed here please don't let some people up set you i hope you re consider ..
we are all here to learn from one and other. please lets try to get along.. i wish to understand peoples pain. and also to help when i can and maybe i will become a better person for it ... hugs

[Sharon]

What was the original topic of this thread again?

It's done -- it's wandered too far off course and people are repeating themselves here.