Gender and Sexuality

[Kimberley]

It seems to come up on a regular basis and is probably a point of confusion, by more than one member so I thought I would throw this out for people to comment on and share.

"It's not sexual" This simple statement seems to be a catch phrase for those seeking tranision but I also think it is misleading.

Dressing is not sexual, at least for me, but I am still a sexual being. It's not sexual doesnt mean there is no interest in sex, only that the crossdressing doesnt necessarily have a sexual element to it.

I guess it all comes back to the gender and sexuality thing again.

So, what does everyone think?

:hugs:
Kimberley

[Denise Anderson]

Well of course theres an interest in sex, i certainly have never had plans to be asexual, and it would be a bleeding waste of time having the op to adjust the equipment and not use it... but its not the priority for transitioning certainly not for me and many others... :)

Denise
xxx

[Calliope]

Dressing is not sexual, at least for me, but I am still a sexual being. It's not sexual doesnt mean there is no interest in sex, only that the crossdressing doesnt necessarily have a sexual element to it.


I notice, for me, there are different outfits for different occasions. I keep the clothes, earrings and makeup within the 'average' when I take my kid to the busstop in the morning; all in all, I follow the housewife 'norm' established here. Then, when it's Friday night, I indulge in those sparkly tops and longer earrings and get the lashes a bit longer. So ... maybe I should say there's a 'sexual element' to my dressing although I'm not dressing to turn on myself and I don't consciously go out on Friday nights hunting for a mate, either. I guess I am just trying to get some conformity in my attire. Which means, in our socety, there's a bit of sexual awareness in my personal presentation.

[Clare]

I guess it's one of those aspects of developing an understanding and acceptance of crossdressing. It was a sexual thing for me when I was a teenager/young adult, but as I matured it became irrelevant.

Today I wear androdgenous femme clothing regulary and to me it's no different (generally) than drab clothes. I know my womens clothes are "different", but essentially they are just clothes and when I dress fully with makeup etc, I have a sense of pride in who I really am femme-wise, but there is not normally a sexual element to it.

I have no plans to permanently transition with GRS, but Denise sums up the TS alternative quite well.
Well of course there's an interest in sex, i certainly have never had plans to be asexual, and it would be a bleeding waste of time having the op to adjust the equipment and not use it... but its not the priority for transitioning certainly not for me and many others... :)

Denise
xxx

[princessmichelle]

Hi,

I'm torn on this issue, for two reasons: complexity and implications.

Implications: if it is erotic, then I'm not an srs candidate. Of course I have millions of miles to go first, but it seems like that's ultimately what's at stake.

Complexity: skivvies and genitalia, of course there has been eroticism to it! But in some ways it is about identity, and that is not erotic. It's not erotic to have gender angst, it hurts.

So, Kimberley, you ask a good question. But not an easy one.

"Princess" Michelle

[Stlalice]

Have lost count of the number of times that this question has come up here and other places - perhaps a sticky titled something like Transgender 101 is in order. Mind you, I'm not putting anyone down regards being confused about their sexuality and gender identity and how they interact. With that said, I'll put down some basic definitions. Be warned - keeping these concepts separate makes it a great deal easier to understand why you or someone else is GLBTS/TG.

First, Physical Sex - put bluntly, is what is between your legs and some secondary characteristics that society tries to use as a basis for determining how to interact with an individual, and how that individual should look and act based on a binary view of gender.

Second, Gender Identity, - whats between your ears. Who you are and how you identify yourself - male or female. Generally attributed to differences in the structure of the brain - think of it as a "hard wired" characteristic that you can try to deny but cannot change. When gender identity conflicts with your physical sex you end up with a condition known as Gender Dysophoria or Gender Identity Disorder aka GID. The Benjamin "Standards of Care" are based on the fact that it is possible to change or modify the body, change the way you present yourself, but that the structures of the brain cannot be changed.

Third, Sexual orientation, - another "hard wired" characteristic that can be best defined as who you are attracted to and to an extent in what degree. Think of it as being the "erotic" part of the mix.

Looking at the above as separate factors makes it a little easier to understand why someone might be straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual, and/or transsexual/transgendered. The possible combinations of how and to what degree those factors can interact is damn near endless. Thus the problems and confusion about anyone who doesn't quite fit in the neat catagories of "male" or "female". There being an "erotic" componet to someones cross dressing doesn't rule out their being transsexual. Its all in how you as an individual identify and what if anything you need or choose to do about it based on your own situation.

[MarinaTwelve200]

Have lost count of the number of times that this question has come up here and other places - perhaps a sticky titled something like Transgender 101 is in order. Mind you, I'm not putting anyone down regards being confused about their sexuality and gender identity and how they interact. With that said, I'll put down some basic definitions. Be warned - keeping these concepts separate makes it a great deal easier to understand why you or someone else is GLBTS/TG.

First, Physical Sex - put bluntly, is what is between your legs and some secondary characteristics that society tries to use as a basis for determining how to interact with an individual, and how that individual should look and act based on a binary view of gender.

Second, Gender Identity, - whats between your ears. Who you are and how you identify yourself - male or female. Generally attributed to differences in the structure of the brain - think of it as a "hard wired" characteristic that you can try to deny but cannot change. When gender identity conflicts with your physical sex you end up with a condition known as Gender Dysophoria or Gender Identity Disorder aka GID. The Benjamin "Standards of Care" are based on the fact that it is possible to change or modify the body, change the way you present yourself, but that the structures of the brain cannot be changed.

Third, Sexual orientation, - another "hard wired" characteristic that can be best defined as who you are attracted to and to an extent in what degree. Think of it as being the "erotic" part of the mix.

Looking at the above as separate factors makes it a little easier to understand why someone might be straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual, and/or transsexual/transgendered. The possible combinations of how and to what degree those factors can interact is damn near endless. Thus the problems and confusion about anyone who doesn't quite fit in the neat catagories of "male" or "female". There being an "erotic" componet to someones cross dressing doesn't rule out their being transsexual. Its all in how you as an individual identify and what if anything you need or choose to do about it based on your own situation.


You are correct---IDENTITY is at the heart of most of this, What you cover in your quote above is but the tip of an "Iceberg" so to speak

We also have OTHER identity factors than the " Bio-Male VS Bio-female", "Homosexual VS Hetrosexual" and "Male gender VS Female gender" factors.

There are also "Me VS You" (personal identity), "Human VS Animal", "Animate VS Inaminate", etc. All of these "IDENTITY functions" seem to work in a similar manner in the mind---being "SET" one way or the other at birth, ATYPICAL settings may lead to various atypical "conditions" and drives such as Transsexuality, etc.

A deeper understanding of these identity functions may be had by studying one that is devoid of the sexual stuff that may blind and confuse us. One of these I studied, was "Transformationisim"---It looks quit a lot like TS, but involves a desire or a fantasy to become an ANIMAL rather than a woman (for example)

In a transformationist, the "Human VS ANIMAL" Identity factor may be toggled in the atypical position.---Check out the Transformation sites and "Furry" sites on the web. its a LOT more common than you might realize.

That such a "function" exists demonstrates that TS, CD and TG are all likely expressions of the settings of different IDENTITY functions and not really "sexual" as such. It also seems that these "settings" can oftimes be deliberately(albiet temporarily) artifically fooled with by our selves---The result being a "Brain rush" which might be WHY some "Thrill Seeking CDs" do what they do.

[AmberTG]

And, of course, the "it's not sexual" component has to do with if cross-dressing is an erotic turn on trigger for the cross-dresser or not. I'm guessing that many CDs and some TGs have at least some erotic component. Just because there is an erotic component to CDing does not mean that the person is not TG. These issues get mixed up at an early age and linger on to some degree for many TGs. Puberty has a way of skewing the issues, and that has lasting effects for most people. I still have to deal with this issue on occasion, although it's mostly non-sexual now. As I've aged, this has all been changing, but my sexual triggers have always been atypical, another subject entirely.

[Kimberley]

Point well taken Amber. There is certainly a "learned" component of the sexual self as it relates to crossdressing; one that generally arises with puberty. I agree, this doesnt change the identity of the person but it certainly adds a great deal of confusion sometimes erroneously linked to sexuality and or preference.

I think it is dangerous to separate the concept of sexual performance(?) with gender in the context that we are complex beings, fueled by complex senses and thought processes and stimulations. This attempt at separation may work on a very elementary level when trying to explain the so called differences between TV, CD, TG or TS but in reality it isnt that simple as each of us knows.

We are inherently sexual beings and orientation has little to do with gender identity. Sexual preference or lack of preference is sexual, not gender based in my opinion.

More thoughts? This is getting interesting. Thanks. What about the F2M's? Not a peep from you guys. How about it?

:hugs:
Kimberley

[AmberTG]

I would agree that sexual preference has very little to do with gender identity. Non-TG, "normal" people have the same issues with sexual preference that TG/TS people and CDs have.