ts orientation?

[princessmichelle]

Hi,

A read a book which challenged my feelings about trans and orientation.

The book claims that gender dysphoric people only dream of dating as a member of the opposite sex but in a traditional gender role. In other words, a gender dysphoric genetic male MtF would only fantasize of marrying a genetic man, according to the author.

I had thought that it was common for MtFs to want to date genetic women. The author said of course not, because that would make them gay. Despite most of the rest of the book being supportive, that felt a bit homophobic, and a bit like a slap. And it's a loaded question because of the "am I or am I not trans" implications.

Princess Michelle

[Sharon]

I'd be interested in knowing the title of the book so that I could see whether you have confused transsexuality with crossdressing. If not, the author of the book appears to be a little misinformed.

Male-to-female crossdressers would be gay if they were attracted to males, while they still identified themselves as being male.

Male to female transsexuals, having the self-identification of being female, would not be gay if attracted to males, although many feel this distinction is incorrect -- those that see reproductive organs as being the primary sexual concern, not the mind.

Anyway -- does it really matter what you call it? Straight or gay, we're all just people when it comes down to it. Don't put so much worry into a word or label -- you are still you.

[Scotty]

Labels, who needs 'em?

I"m VERY much attracted to women/GG's.

I find some men attractive but have never done that.

[CaptLex]

The author is definitely either homophobic or in deep denial. Transsexuals are just as likely to be of every sexual orientation as Non-trans people - it's two separate issues.

[Stlalice]

Please read my post under "Gender and Sexuality" - "Keeping them Separate" - Sounds like you have been reading the idiot that wrote " The Man Who Would be Queen" - Bailey if I remember his name correctly - he has been quite completely discredited in the academic field due to sloppy research methodology and ethical violations. Little things like having the permission of his research subjects to publish their names and quote their comments, and "research" that only included interviews with people working in the sex trade in Chicago. Get real, when you post something like this make sure you cite your source lest you be dismised as being someone of Baileys brand or worse being a troll.

[princessmichelle]

Hi,

Thanks for your responses.

To clarify the title and theory:

The book is _True Selves: Understanding Transsexualism for Families, Friends, Coworkers and by Mildred L. Brown and Chloe Ann Rounsley. Brown has extensive experience as a therapist for pre-op transsexuals.

One example:
"[transsexuals] don't want to date someone of the 'opposite sex' as their family, friends, and society expect them to do..." (page 67). This discussion goes on, rather unambiguously.

In the rest of the book the authors note variation between trans people, but seem rigid in regard to dating fantasies etc.

In appreciation,

"Princess" Michelle

[AmberTG]

The only post-op MTF person that I personally know is only attracted to GGs

[Stlalice]

Hi,

Thanks for your responses.

To clarify the title and theory:

The book is _True Selves: Understanding Transsexualism for Families, Friends, Coworkers and by Mildred L. Brown and Chloe Ann Rounsley. Brown has extensive experience as a therapist for pre-op transsexuals.

One example:
"[transsexuals] don't want to date someone of the 'opposite sex' as their family, friends, and society expect them to do..." (page 67). This discussion goes on, rather unambiguously.

In the rest of the book the authors note variation between trans people, but seem rigid in regard to dating fantasies etc.

In appreciation,

"Princess" Michelle


a big improvement over Bailey - fact is I've recomended her book here as a basic primer on transsexualism. It used to be that in order to pass muster with therapists and be a candidate for SRS you had to fit into a certain mold where your life and story were concerned. Her book in some ways reflects that thinking. This resulted in a lot of trans people not giving totally truthful answers about some aspects of their life and desires. This has changed to a degree in current practice and now it is accepted that some of us will want to date and others will not. Some of us will be straight, some gay or lesbian.
Where dating is concerned there are a great many factors that influence wether or not one wants to date and how others will view it is only one of them. It is a sensitive topic with many of us and my own feeling is that there is no wrong answer - it depends too much on the individual and where they are at in transition. :2c:

[Denise Anderson]

Scarily... there are psychs out there in the world that share that belief, that you cant be attracted to a woman if you are MTF... well of course ya can, for me its men but many of my friends pre and post op are in relationships with genetic girls and post op TS's, its just a case of old fashioned views by psychs out of touch with the real world...

Denise
xxx

[sarahtv]

I read True Selves and found it to be revealing in some areas and kind of dated in others. True Selves really tries to pigeon hole categories of people and I found I did not fit any of the holes.

The best book I have read is "My Husband Betty" by Helen Boyd. She really nails a lot of what being a crossdresser or transsexual is all about.

Been thinking of giving a copy to my wife, but the book is so accurate in many areas I am worried it will freak her out!

[michelle19845]

i have had a small thing for males but find it so hard to find a descent one,but then again there's gay guys that are cute and cudley and do some masculine things to help women and would pry respect a t girl like me,but for the most part i find women or t-women,the more feminine,the more i like em.i love affection,cuddle time and all that good stuff and love so many things that women do,i just find it easier and more fun and appreciating to be attracted to women,but i stil get a thing every now and again about a genetic male .maybe a cute gay guy would be both worlds?

[Sarahgurl371]

I read this book a while ago. I thought that for the average "normal" reader that it would be pretty informative, and thought that was who it was written for. To those close to the TS, to try and explain it all. Just my thoughts.

There are many theories that I have read about that the issue of sexuality comes up. That a MTF TS is either a homosexual male, or a heterosexual (autogynephilliac) male, I think this is Bailey. From what I gather, this was the cutting edge for a long time. But just like every other theory, new information arises, understanding changes and horizons broaden. I think that for so long the medical community had to have a very clear set standard to apply to patients claiming to be TS, in order to muddle through something that is very confusing to us who go thru it, let alone the professionals who must authorize procedures. I think that this theroy was used to identify so called true transsexuals (homosexual) form genetic males with other mental issues(heterosexual), as the mental health community at the time believed there should be a difference in treatment.

I speak mostly of the theory applied to MTF instead of FTM, as they where, at the time, thought to be a very small population. And that at the time male and female sexuality was viewed as entirely different animals. Males having a robust sexuality that could fuel these issues, and females believed to not have this robust sexuality. How many times have you heard of a female fetishist? (They have them to be sure.) And sexuality was viewed as the driving force behind the desire for transition.

IMO, all this theroy did was drive sexual issues underground. Anyone wishing to transition knew that if there were sexual (hetero) feelings involved, that they would not be considered for GRS. So people lied. Not all, but some to be sure. How many bios have you read that post op TS's talk about their desire to be sexually active as the transitioned sex?

BUt like everything else, things change.

My therapist seems to be of the opinon that sexuality is a completely different matter all together, and I agree. I think most of us do.

Lets face it, the book does a pretty decent job of explaining a very complex and confusing issue to people who are not experiencing it. I am confused just trying to articulate my thoughts on it here.

[Ms. Donna]

The book is _True Selves: Understanding Transsexualism for Families, Friends, Coworkers and by Mildred L. Brown and Chloe Ann Rounsley. Brown has extensive experience as a therapist for pre-op transsexuals.

Hi Michelle,

Jenny B. posted this over at mHB to me about True Selves:

If you were to ask me point blank what I thought of True Selves, I'd say it's good as the most basic of basic primers, helpful especially to those who truly have never even heard of this stuff before. When I was in transition it was a handy and dependable book to fork over to people. But that was six years ago, and there's been so much since then.


We may want to find you something else to read... ;)

Love & Stuff,
Donna

[joanlynn28]

Either way with me I am heterosexual, as a man I like woman and as a woman I like men. But being is transition I am finding myself somewhere in the middle (bisexual). And at the moment I just can't find myself having sexual relations with a gg it reminds me of my maleness of my current physical state. I am attracted to men in a female way, but I am not attracted to gay men and I find that gay men are not attacted to us transwomen. But as we get more into the world of the transgender community we find that sexual orientation runs from one extreme to the other just as it does in the so-called normal society. But this is just my personal observation.:2c:

[Clare]

Transsexuals are just as likely to be of every sexual orientation as Non-trans people - it's two separate issues.:iagree: The Capt states it simply and accurately!

In my case, if I was transsexual and had GRS, I imagine I would up a gay female in general although I would also be curious to 'have' a man to experience sex as a female.

[cindianna_jones]

I had my SRS 19 plus years ago. Before transition, I was strictly hetero and hopelessly in love with my spouse.

During transtion I was attracted to women.

For a few years after transition, I still was attracted to women. I'd hang out with lesbians .... but nothing happened. Nothing clicked.

Meanwhile, guys would not leave me alone. I was getting offers to go out all the time. And I turned them down for the most part.

But finally, I gave in and started going out with guys. It was fun but I couldn't get serious with them.... .until one snuck into my life. He chased after me until I fell in love with him. We dated for some time and then I told him about my past. He accepted it because he had grown to love me. He's as straight as they come. He's also been very supportive about me releasing my book.

I still give beautiful women a careful look. I see other women doing the same thing for what it is worth. Women do more of that than men.

I know women who went through transition at the same time I did. Pick your favorite sexual orientation (or none) and it's in there. You only need worry about yourself. No one will judge you in a negative way for it. You'll already get enough crap from the bigots. You don't need it from us or your therapist.

Cindi Jones