The Fit hit the Shan Part Deux

[Laurie Ann]

My wife and I have been dancing around the cd issue since June when the first part of this was posted. This weekend we had the best conversation to date about my other side. She even has begun to read Peggy Rudds book My Husband Wears My Clothes. She is still very hurt and angry about this whole thing even thinking it was just a bit of mid-life crisis. Yeah right. I told her about my beginnings at age 4 with my aunt dressing me up and taking me out. I told her that Laurie, she still does not know my famale name, is a part of me and always will be. She suggested that I go for counseling anyone have thoughts on that issueShe wants to know if I am gay, want a sex change or want to dress all the time. The answer is no to all three questions. I told her I have been out dressed and had a wonderful time. I spoke about TRI-ESS and suggested maybe we go for a meeting to see what she might get out of it. Thats a no go for now. I asked her if she wanted to see a picture of me again a no go. She wants to know what I want out of this because she is dead set against it. I told her I wanted to have some more discussion about it and see where we could set some boundaries and rules. On the scale of 0-100 she is still at 0 I want her to understand that this is not something I wished on myself but here it is so please can we deal with it. The door is open for future discussions but I need advice on how to approach this so I do not blow it for ever. I know keeping it secret would blow up at some point but what experiences do you girls have in dealing with this. I am looking for thoughts not only from male to female but GG's as well.

I also want everyone to know I miss you all and have appreciated the kind words to Tammi's thread.

[Wendy me]

hey girlfriend good hearing you were talking some ... see my wife knows and we made some progress ... she saw me dressed not planned ... and she as far as i can see is in her comfort zone.... she knows and i believe she is in some way afraid of know or accepting too much ..... and it never works out to be the right time to push or nudge her any more toward accepting ....

you might try the counseling hell don't try it jump in and get her involved in it as well it might be a good way for her to see that this crisscrossing thing is not as strange and scary as it looks to her....


go slow and hang in there.....

best of luck aqnd huge Wendy hugs to you.....

[Sophia Rearen]

Oh Laurie, I'm so sorry this is happening to you. This is certainly moving at a snails pace. This conversation is one which typically takes place upon the discovery or the coming out phase. I can't believe she has just asked you these questions now. But, there is a good sign. There may be the tiniest thread of light peeking through the closet door. Does this mean she is atleast entertaining the idea that her husband is a CD? How has your life changed since Laurie has been shut down? If it has, does she know how you feel inside? You need to keep the conversation going, here and there. Know when to bring it up, know when not to. But keep it alive. If not, you may not be, by the time she reaches acceptance.

[Barb Valentine]

Laurie I have no words of wisdom for you
Because I'm still in hiding myself
All I can do is offer you my support
And hope that thing will work out for the best for you
:hugs:
:IMU:
Barb

[Breanne]

Hang in there, Sis. There is progress, it is not 0 on a 0 - 100 scale, there is movement, to quote your own words:

This weekend we had the best conversation to date about my other side. She even has begun to read Peggy Rudds book My Husband Wears My Clothes.

I know you would love it to move faster, but you do have progress.
We're all behind you and will continue to support you.

[SherriePall]

Yes, Laurie, you are not at zero! As Breanne has noted, your wife has started to read Peggy Rudd's book. While my wife and I are not at zero (close to it), she doesn't want to read any books because someone may see us buy it or someone may see it laying around the house or .... (you get the idea).
Anyway, nice to hear from you and best of everything for both you and your wife.

[GypsyKaren]

I wish there was an "easy button" for this Laurie, but there isn't. All I can say is to try and keep communicating with her about it, maybe eventually she'll see that you're still the same sweet person she's always known.

Karen

[Charleen]

Progress is progress. A snail might take forever to get where it's going, but it gets there. Love and xxxx, Lily

[BeckyAnderson]

Hi Laurie, I don't know if it will help out any but you may want to go to my web site and read my diary. It's lengthy but filled with what has happened to me over the last three years. My wife and your wife started at the same position. She also was dead set against it. We've made some progress over the last three years but not nearly enough in my mind. Of course, I'm the CD'er and according to some of our wives we always want more. She too tried to read My Husband Wears My Clothes but never finished it and it is only a four or five hour read.

There is much information there that you may present to your wife. I've tried to keep the information balanced from points of view.

Any way, I want to wish you all the best in your efforts to try to help her understand.

The URL to my site is: http://home.comcast.net/~iamacd/enter.htm (http://home.comcast.net/%7Eiamacd/enter.htm)

Hugs,
Becky

[Lori SC]

This is something that takes many, many, many hours of conversation to for a wife to accept CDing...

If there is a time when the two of you are alone for a good while, ask her what questions she might have for you about CDing. Then you HAVE to answer her honestly. No matter what. If she finds out you are lying, forget anything else. You are sunk, hosed, down, and out.

If she doesn't have any question, lead her on. Ask her if she ever thought of... whatever CD topic you might fel she is ready for. Don't go right to "So you want to see me dressed"? Start with topics - such as all the message boards around. How many CD are really out there, What you want out of all this, What you want her to do - minimum and the ideal, etc. etc.

Talk about something every day. And expect to be asked some of the same questions over, and over, and over.

A good conversation starter (Which I and my wife stumbled upon) is for her to make little notes in the margin as she reads Peggy Ruds book. Then you can read it if you haven't already, and the two of you talk about her notes, comments, questions. It really does help!

Hugs, Lori :hugs:

BTW, my wife now attends CD conferences with me, allows me to dress whenever I want. Something I did worked right!

[Holly]

Laurie, my heart goes out to both you and your wife. Like Karen, I wish there was an easy button I could give you. But as a few have already pointed out, you are not at zero! You are talking; she is reading. Use these opportunities to complete her education in this area. You know the answers to the questions she has already raised. Give her those answers, not only in words, but in action as well. Be attentive to her, reassure her of your love for her. In many cases, one of the biggest hurdles you will have to clear will be the question, "Why didn't you tell me about this before? Why did you hide this from me?" And those are legitimate questions you are going to need to be ready to answer. I hope the opportunity for you to get into this dialog with your wife comes soon. I understand that you are anxious, but patience at the point is critical. If you decide that counseling would be a good idea, then do some research and find someone who has experience in gender issues and has worked successfully with couples.

As always, PM me if I can help. :hugs:

[Tamara Croft]

Laurie, I know how she is feeling, I've been there too, but I feel a lot of the 'I don't want to know' comes from not having other wives/partners etc to talk to. You can come here, get advice, help etc, but really, she is alone, trying to handle something that is so overwhelming at times, you just want to close that door and hope it goes away. It doesn't go away.... Laurie, if she would like some support from another SO (me), I'll gladly email her and give her some outside support. Just let her know there is someone other than you she can talk to, scream at, rant away etc :)

:hugs:

[Sarah Rabbit]

Hey Hon.
The books are your best bet. Gather as much information as you can. Show her, she is not about to lose her husband, but she has just found another facet of you, and you are the same person she married. I know this is taking longer than you wish, but at least it is moving along. Miss you here:hugs:

Sarah R. :bunny:

[Dixie Darling]

Laurie,

If she's gotten to a point where she will read some of the more reputable literature about it (Peggy Rudd's books) you just might have a good chance of developing a few boundaries. It might help her if she would read some of the posts on theis forum, and I also invite you to invite HER to have a look around my web site.

Dixie -- http://www.geocities.com/senorita_cd

[ColleenCD]

Laurie, it's good to hear from you again. I like the idea that she is reading. My wife also read My Husband Betty. This was a double edged sword in that she read it, but we had a some unhappy discussions about it. If you can get her to visit with Tamara, this may help her not feel like the only one. The only other thing I would suggest is to be patient. Keep us posted.

Colleen

[Amy Hepker]

Laurie, I know that you are saying alot of things right now when she asked, and sometimes it is hard to awnser her questions when you don't know because you have not been out, or out much. It is hard to say that you don't want to do it all the time if you have never been out before. I believe you are right when you say you are not Gay, most of us are not and have no desire to be. Alot of us do not want to have the big change either, but you have to find yourself before you can awnser these questions, (except for the Gay one) Once you get into dress it can be ADDICTIVE and you may find out that you are accepted that way and want it that way. As far as your wife goes, becareful you are treading on thin Ice. It can go either way, if you push it may make it worse. Things like this take time, plenty of time. Let her make the first move and let you know what she wants. She may reject Laurie altogether and not want to share her man with her. The reason I say this is because my Xwife used to say I was cheating on her with MYSELF. If they are against it they may always be against it. She has to make the decision on wether Laurie should or should not come out. Just take it easy and let time tell as you can never rush a real Female into a decision. I truly do hope it works out for you.

[Glenda Grant]

I'm guessing you have been married a number of years and kept this secret just as my husband did for 33 years. You have to realize how threatening it is to find out your news. The big fear is loosing everything you have worked for and care for including "your Man"

There is a Grieving process that takes place Disbelief ( how could I not have known? it can't be true) Anger ( How could he lie to me for so long and what else is he lying about and will he lie to me in the future, I was robbed of the opportunity to make other decisons with my life when I had the chance if he would have been honest and told me early on, this isn't fair etc) Bargaining ( he had a mixed up child hood therapy will make this go away) then acceptence.

News like this makes a women question everything including Am I a Lesbian if I make love to him? and what does that make me feel like?

For me it was important for my husband to make love to me alot when I first found out. It made me more secure that things were really not that different, and it bonded us emotionally. We talked for hours on end to the wee hours of the morning for the first month which made us closer in many ways.

Having another woman that was in a similar circumstance for me to talk to helped and I do hope your wife finds someone. It helped me to meet a couple in their late fifties that the wife knew for 20 years now and they had a very normal lifestyle.

I know it isn't easy on the CD either but remember you have known for years and she is now only finding out and will go through all the emotional highs and lows you have.

My advise since you asked for it is to be loving and patient. Try to make her feel loved and desired by cards and presents and passionate love making ( I will commend my husband for getting that part right) Re assure her you are still you, not going anywhere and she is not losing her man just getting an added bonus of a femm side that you would like for her to get to know when she is ready.

[Satrana]

Laurie

Keep on talking for sure, but if I can be pragmatic for a second, her mind seems pretty much closed because of her feelings about crossdressing. Basically she does not want to deal with it period and no matter how much you rationalize arguments for crossdressing, all she sees is big negatives for herself - her potential social embarressment, her having to deal with wierd habits in her home, breaking up routine family life, her questioning her own sexuality etc.

I think the only way you are going to change her feelings is to talk about your own feelings and let her understand how much her negative feelings affect you. Also just because the rest of society is intolerant does not validate her own intolerance, you need her to be different and stronger than others etc. She needs to confront her fears and prejudices.

Most people want to live a normal life, with a normal SO, doing the routine things everyone else does, so anything outside the normal is not welcomed period. You need to get her to embrace individuality and difference and not to worry what the neighbors think. In particular she has to give up on the notion of the perfect, stereotypical man she wants you to be. Good luck.:hugs:

[DonnaT]

Sounds like you are doing most of the things you need to. Be patient.

She needs to know councelling won't help, as there is no cure. Counseling is needed by those who can't or have a hard time accepting themselves. If she can't take your word for it, then she should talk to a gender therapist for a professional opinion.

Also, don't make all the conversations about gaining knowledge about CDing. Ask her what attracted her to you, why she fell in love with you. ETC. If what she says fits with your being a CD, and had you not been a CD she would never have seen in you the things that attracted her to you, then point them out. Worked for me.

[Laurie Ann]

I want you all to know how much I appreciate the advice and wise counsel of all your responses. I appreciate hearing from the other perspective the GG's thanks alot. Tamara I have suggested she come here but at this time she is not going to do that. I hope and pray that we can move the discussion forward and not let it sit on the burner to boil away. She did suggestthat maybe something with a unisex look would be a good start.

[Mary Jane]

I really can not add anything to what has already been said. I will have you in my thoughts and prayers though. Good luck.

[LeannL]

Well I just had the conversation with my wonderful wife two Sundays ago. Been married for 20+ years and finally through circumstances I don't need to go into came to be comfortable with myself. We have had a lot of talking since then (had to do a lot of driving last weekend so we were alone with nothing else to do.) My approach to telling her was that it was something I hid, I hid it because when I married her I didn't understand and after that I loved her so much that I couldn't hurt her. After I quickly told her I wasn't gay or TS, her first words were I love you too much to let this get in the way. She understood the burden I had lived with and forgave me for not telling her. She then added though that she wasn't comfortable seeing me dressed. I have made it clear to her ever since that she was in charge with whatever happens. I wasn't going to push anything. To make a long (how can 10 days be long???) story short, she has gone from being very confused and ill to now understand a lot more about both her and me. Along the way, our relationship has changed for the better in many ways. Our prayer life has blossomed. Our life in the bedroom has been incredible. Our communications has been very open.

We have been able to talk about life and the boxes we live in. She admitted that she has lived in a small box while (in part because of my CDing) I am comfortable in an almost boxless life. So we have talked about how to knock down the walls of her box to find a bigger box which might or might not include my other self. One of the conversations has been what clothes mean. She has never understood the sexy underthings/ nightthings that some women (and their men) enjoy. Well, she has taken on a new look at it and all of a sudden she is thinking about and doing something. This has caused her to look at clothing on me a bit different. So we had a conversation about maybe I could wear something - a religious necklace or something else not totally visible. I reminded her that she was in charge and that if she became comfortable, she would choose how we started.

With respect to the communication, we feel that my keeping it secret prevented us from communicating (and praying) as we should. Please realize, we communicated better than a vast majority of couples before this but it has gotten better. By the same token, our prayer life was also stuck a bit. I was holding back because if I prayed the "wrong way" I could have said something I didn't want to. Of course I was praying privately that God would show me how/when to tell her. Now we pray together that we are shown God's way and we will do what is asked.

We don't know where we will end up. All I can say is to keep the lines of communication open. Let her know that she is in charge even while you let her know that this is something you were born with and it won't go away. She needs to know she is in control. If you are religous, pray together. And a good performance in the bedroom won't hurt either.

Good luck and my prayers are with all of you approaching this.

Leann

[Dragster]

What a great story Leanne; I'm deeply envious because it's over 15 years since I did the same (after 20 years married) and we buried it under the carpet because she "didn't want to know". I brought it up again early last year, after joining here, and we've still made very little progress, except an agreement that we weren't going to break up our marriage over it, thank goodness. You made more progress in 10 days, good luck to you. And if you know what the magic ingredient was, please let me know!!!

All the best,
Tony

[melissacd]

Laurie,

Speaking from my own experience, we have danced around all of this for 9 years and she still does not get it and I suspect that she never will. I have tried many things including counselling. I have reached a point where there seems to be no further point in discussion. I am tired of trying to appease her and earlier this year I said I am a cross dresser and that will never change and I have to pursue my cross dressing side. If she wants to come along fine, if she does not want to come along fine, but I am doing it anyway. Read my other recent post and you will see what is happening.

Each of us has to decide what path to take and whether giving up CDing is a price we are willing to pay for our relationship. Personally, I have reached a point in my thought process (after many years of trying to accomodate) that no relationship is worth selling out who you really are inside. No partner should expect you not to be you. If love in a relationship is conditional upon not being who you are then one has to consider whether they are with the right partner.

Trust me this has been a very painful and confusing process for me and I am not treating it lightly. There is a lot at stake whenever we reach these forks in the road. I am just saying, in my case, after years of being kicked in the teeth I cannot be kicked anymore. For me I draw a line in the sand, I take must take a stand. I am not being mean or vindictive or hurtful I am just saying this is who I am and this is how I will be. She then has to make her own choices based on that decision.

Melissa

[Satrana]

Each of us has to decide what path to take and whether giving up CDing is a price we are willing to pay for our relationship. Personally, I have reached a point in my thought process (after many years of trying to accomodate) that no relationship is worth selling out who you really are inside. No partner should expect you not to be you. If love in a relationship is conditional upon not being who you are then one has to consider whether they are with the right partner.



I agree wholeheartedly. My wife, who is genuinely accepting, told me once that if she were to treat me the way that most other wives treat their crossdressing husbands she would not expect me to stay around. When your partner rejects or controls who you are, can you really say you are still in a loving relationship?

It is a very difficult thing to confront and deal with since all relationships have many facets and deep running emotions, but for me a partner's rejection, hate and disgust of who you are is a deal breaker. And you are selling yourself out if you just accept others' intolerance if they are making no effort to overcome their prejudices.