Immoral?

[pocoyo]

Just wondering...

if someone was to change their gender. Is it immoral (or even illegal?) to move to a new place and continue their life as their new gender and just not tell anyone that they used to be the opposite?

I mean in a way it's not like they are lying because actually they are probably being more truthful and themselves now that their body reflects the person within. So is it ok to make new friends and not tell them you used to be a female/male?

And then I have the question.. so what about having a relationship with someone? Would it be really out of order to not let them know? I mean if you had a physical relationship they would probably be able to tell from your er genitals if you were ftm...but not definitely. Imagine phalloplasty has come on in leaps and bounds and the penises now look and function almost perfectly... or perhaps you don't have a fully physical relationship with them...

Would it be wrong... or even cruel/evil.... to not let the other person know?
In one way... I would say no not at all because you are now being yourself. But in another way, if it was a woman u were with... perhaps it's not fair to keep the information back that you have this "advantage" because you know what it is like to be a female too (to a degree). ... This fact could make you a great & sensitive lover though :)
And if you were with a gay man perhaps he would feel horrible that he is with someone that used to be female and would actually choose to not be with you if he knew.

Personally I would want to move and NOT tell anyone in the new town that I used to be a girl. (Even though I am a very moral person).

Looking at it from the other person's perspective, I wouldn't mind at all if I had a bf and he said he used to be a girl (or a girlfriend who used to be a boy) but I know not everyone is as open minded as us folk here.

Ok I'm not making much sense. Part of what I'm trying to say IS...
It is very important to be a good person and honest in life. BUT I would want to live my life as a "normal" man... dating like a normal man, interacting with people as a normal man etc. I wouldn't want to be labelled a transexual or whatever because this would immediately make me different. (I understand that there is a transexual community etc who are very proud of being transexual and I do respect that immensly, but personally I would just want to be an average guy.) And to tell people I used to be a girl would probably well limit the people I dated etc to being trans or gay or whatever or just someone understanding and open-minded. To admit I was transexual would mean that I wouldn't be able to be a "normal" man.

Maybe I'm being ridiculous and its obvious that you should tell people or something and you should be with someone understanding anyway. (But hey what about casual snogs and flings and light-hearted. meaningless affairs?! haha.)

So er... what do you think?

P.S. Sorry if this thread didn't make sense at all but I'm ill and really tired which is making me feel and act drunk lol!

[MissAlyssa]

I thought a little bit about that and really came to no conclusion. I know that if I went from guy to gal i would want to move away and not tell anyone but if I got really really close to someone I probably would just have to spill the beans. Im a bit confused about all the rest you said but I just wanted to put my 2 cents in.:tongueout :tongueout :tongueout :tongueout

[CaptLex]

These are all good questions, Pocoyo. In fact, my support group has discussed this before and different people have different opinions about it. Would it be illegal? I don't see how. Would it be immoral? I think that's up to the individual. There is no "right" way to be trans. It's whatever is right for you. Some people disappear into society after transitioning and even move away from anyone and anything in their previous life. Some people deal with it differently - there is no right and wrong answer, as I see it.

I think most people probably are just very selective about who they disclose their past to. They don't feel the need to tell everybody, but some people in their lives know. Whether you would disclose to a potential partner is also up to you. I, personally, feel that in my own situation, I would because I would be afraid of that person finding out later on down the line and it would probably be nerve-wracking for me just waiting to be outed. Also, because I feel the need to be with someone who would want me knowing all that about me, and I'd worry that they couldn't truly love the real me if they didn't know who I really was.

Just my :2c: , but I think you have to do whatever makes sense to you, and if you're worried about going against your own ethics, then you might want to consider that. I hope this helps (and makes sense).

[Theresa(TGirl)]

Like the Cap said,
It's all a matter of personal opinion and belief.
If I became a woman (not saying I will, just speaking hypothetically), and found a guy, who used to be a girl, then that'd be another story.
But what if I found a guy who dumped me after I told him.

It's all a matter of personal opinion. (wait, i already said that :bonk:)

It is probably better to be open about ones past (dangit, it boils down to personal opinion again)

:2c:

[Helen MC]

Sorry but I assume that we have totally different ethics. To my mind if it harms none other then it is ok.

So a person has GRS and moves to a new area and starts a new life under their new ID. Why the hell should they have to take old unwanted baggage with them from their previous existence. Here in the UK one can have their Birth Certificate and other Documents altered to come into line with their physical gender. I am sure that many CDs and TS would love to be able to make a fresh start like that. Good luck to anyone who does so, Go Girl Go! Their former gender is nobody's business but their own.

[CaptLex]

So a person has GRS and moves to a new area and starts a new life under their new ID. Why the hell should they have to take old unwanted baggage with them from their previous existence.
We're in agreement, Helen . . . they shouldn't have to, but not everyone who transitions feels that "old baggage" is unwanted. That's my point - it's a matter of personal preference. There is no right or wrong answer to this question.

[pocoyo]

...for all your replies
Some very helpful and interesting opinions there. Thanks very much for taking the time and effort to post :D

I forgot to say that the biggest reason I wouldn't want people to know is because I would be scared of prejudiced and ignorant/closed minded people (or people that just didn't understand) being horrible to me, or thinking I'm weird, or .... wanting to hurt me. :straightface:

I wish everyone in the world could be accepting and loving to others. (Or at least not want to hurt people!)

pocoyo

[CaptLex]

I forgot to say that the biggest reason I wouldn't want people to know is because I would be scared of prejudiced and ignorant/closed minded people (or people that just didn't understand) being horrible to me, or thinking I'm weird, or .... wanting to hurt me. :straightface:
Here's a few more pennies you didn't ask for - please take them for what they're worth: in the world we live in there are always going to be other ignorant, close-minded, bigoted and intolerant people who are not going to like us or treat us fairly for any number of reasons. Being trans is just one (okay, a big one) on the list.

In my life I have been discriminated against or at least looked down upon for so many reasons: my ethnicity, gender, height, age, religion, socio-economic status, education (or lack of), politics, sexual orientation and, of course, my gender identity and expression. So, if I were going to stay away from anyone who is going to treat me badly for whatever they have issues with, I would have to go hide in a cave somewhere. Don't let the bigots win, hon.

[Xaff]

I forgot to say that the biggest reason I wouldn't want people to know is because I would be scared of prejudiced and ignorant/closed minded people (or people that just didn't understand) being horrible to me, or thinking I'm weird, or .... wanting to hurt me. :straightface:


I think people fear what they don't know. It's indeed not fair that a 'girl' in society needs to act a setain way, and a 'boy' another way. So a 'girl' can never do 'boy' stuff, wear boy clothes or do boy activities, unles being "weared".

It's so not fair!

You know, on school I can be 2 pearsons:

The 'girl':
I can dress like a girl, but I can't act like one. I just can't. Also other people (not from my class) will still make fun of me, becose I have short hair. And I am very shy that way. I just can't be then, who I am.

The 'boy':
I am very cool with myself. I like myself, and I am me that way. And I dare this way to chalenge my teachers so now and then. (It's funny :devil: ) But indeed other people (not from my class) are disgussing about whether I am a boy or a girl. But also 50% of the times I pass a boy.

So if I would choose: Boy I am.

Have a nice day,
Morgan.

P.s. If people would think I am a boy, I will never say I am a girl. By the way, I think if another peorson says I am a boy (body) and I wouldn't say I have a girls body. And they would treat my like a boy. Then I am not lying.

[Kimberley]

A lot of pdocs actually recommend going under the radar for a number of reasons. (Mine is one of them)

Relationships. Think first about gender and secondly about sex. Totally different subjects. If you are male then you are exactly that. Anatomy has zip to do with it other than be a distraction. I know that relationships may not be easy but they are possible. Regardless, complete honesty in any relationship will let it grow. Fail there and it will be difficult at best.

You dont have to run around with a sign on your forehead that says "Discriminate against me, I am transsexual." Neither are you obligated to SRS. You are however obligated to come to terms with your gender. Only then will you be happy.

Pocoyo, I believe that you have a ways to go. You admit to being gendered male but you dont want to admit to it openly. I think you are still struggling with this internally. Acceptance is a tough path but in the end well worth the journey. You are in the right place to find the support you need to get down that path. Every one of us whether F2M or M2F that identifies as TG/TS has to travel it and although our individual issues may differ the overall journey is pretty much the same. Dont be afraid to get to know some of us and by all means use us as a sounding board. You will be surprised at the support you will get. I KNOW the Capn will agree with this.

:hugs:
Kimberley

[trannie T]

Some people need to know such as your physican.
Some people really should know such as your spouse.
It is your option to tell anyone else.
Just don't tell me, I'm a horrible gossip.

[pocoyo]

Hi Cap - thanks :) You are right of course but... it is just terrifying that people actually want to hurt others (or worse). Just... awful. I'm sorry to hear you've had such a hard time :( thanks for the great advice about the morals and not worrying about the bigots.

Hey Morgan - sounds good to me bud! Exactly :)
Have a good day yourself.

Hiya Kimberly! Finding your post a bit hard to understand (sorry, it's not you. It's just that i can be SO simple sometimes!) but I will try and answer properly lol!
I like what you say about "If you are male then you are exactly that. anatomy has nothing to do with it" very cool.

Oh yeah of course you don't have to like advertise that u r transgender even if u do tell some close people (is that what u mean?).
Yeah i guess u don't have to actually have srs either. But i think i would want to become a "complete male". (If i wasn't scared of operations *sigh*).

I admit to being a gendered male?... well I THINK so.. I'm not sure. I'm really confused. I don't really know WHAT I am. (Dunno if you saw my 1st post on this board but that explains a lot of it). So you're right about having a way to go!!

I don't want to admit to it openly? Sorry I don't know what you mean there!!
Do you mean that I wouldn't want to tell people I'm trans if i transitioned? but earlier u said you don't have to... huuuh? I would just want to be treated as an ordinary gay/bi guy. Plus I'm terrified of what some hate-filled people can do to people they see as different.

DEFINITELY struggling with it internally.

Acceptance. Oh Kimberly, I would so LOVE to accept myself as the boy I am... but I'm not sure i AM the boy I am (hahaha if you know what I mean!) That's my problem.
If I knew for a fact that I was a boy in a girl's body I think that I would not have a moments hesitation embracing my inner boy and acting on it and becoming more male (body/appearance-wise) asap.

Thanks for kind words :)

pocoyo

[pocoyo]

Some people need to know such as your physican.
Some people really should know such as your spouse.
It is your option to tell anyone else.
Just don't tell me, I'm a horrible gossip.

LOL ok If I transition & move to a new town I will remember not to tell you. (That made me chuckle out loud).
So you have to tell your doctor? Fair enough.. i spose *squirms uncomfortably* Guess that makes sense.
Yes I guess a spouse should know.. hang on SPOUSE? Don't go marrying me off aargh I'm young free and single! hahaha.
Cool about the option to tell anyone else :) (But.. what if the spouse tells them eeek lol).

thanks trannie t

[CaptLex]

Acceptance is a tough path but in the end well worth the journey. You are in the right place to find the support you need to get down that path. Every one of us whether F2M or M2F that identifies as TG/TS has to travel it and although our individual issues may differ the overall journey is pretty much the same. Dont be afraid to get to know some of us and by all means use us as a sounding board. You will be surprised at the support you will get. I KNOW the Capn will agree with this.
Yup, well said, Kimberley. :iagree:

Pocoyo, when you figure it out (whether you're male, female, neither, both or something else), and I have faith that you will figure it out eventually, then I agree that the next step is self-acceptance. Once you have that, nobody can take it away from you . . . and I believe you will find courage in that - and all the support you need here. :hugs:

[pocoyo]

Oh thank you so much capt lex :)
That's so reassuring, exactly what I needed to hear right now (been a bit down/frustrated and confused again today).
Thank you thank you :love:

[livy_m_b]

In my view, the answer depends on the extent to which you can fulfill your different roles with integrity. For some roles, what you once were is simply irrelevant; for others, it's not. Specifically, in friendships, it's irrelevant; in long term relationships involving sex, it's not.