tolerance based on race

[CharleneCD]

I have been pondering on something. Most of the outspoken and sometimes violent reactions to Cd's and TS's seems to come from the white population of our country. I can't think of any time I have ever read about blacks, hispanics, or Asians directly coming out against us. Is it just not making the news, or is there a greater degree of tolerance within these groups. I would like to hear what others of you have seen of this and your personal experiences if any.

[Karren H]

Some ethnic groups are even more anti-crossdressing that white anglos...... You just don't read about it. I have african-american and hsipanic crossdressing friends and they told me about encounters that I've never experienced!! And never hope to!!!!!

A few of them are on this board and can speak for themselves if they like.

Love Karren

[klyde]

opposition to crossdressing in the black community is based on the idea that crossdressing equals homosexuality. Blacks, in my experience enjoy drag shows. But the idea of a guy dressing as a woman is probaby more taboo than in the white community

[Joy Carter]

I have been pondering on something. Most of the outspoken and sometimes violent reactions to Cd's and TS's seems to come from the white population of our country. I can't think of any time I have ever read about blacks, Hispanics, or Asians directly coming out against us. Is it just not making the news, or is there a greater degree of tolerance within these groups. I would like to hear what others of you have seen of this and your personal experiences if any.

Having been a police officer I can say with most certain you will probably never hear anything remotely negative about race when it comes to minorities. If you observe all the stories listed in the media it's always whites against them and the whites are to blame. The laws in the country are geared that if a certain minority has an offense committed against them by a white it is racial most assuredly. But the reverse is not the case. As for minorities against gender types well the reports are also not widely reported. I read with utter disgust an article about white and black relations. The author blatantly spoke that we (whites) don't know how to get along and until we do the problem will continue. Bull Crap ! I worked the inner city most of my career and I had the trust of allot of people. I treated everyone respect and even the worst of the criminal deserved my respect. We are never going to move ahead as a society till every one recognizes they have a part in the problem and accept the responsibility to change it.

:sb: :sb: :sb: :sb: :sb: :sb: :sb: :sb:

[CaptLex]

Some ethnic groups are even more anti-crossdressing that white anglos...... You just don't read about it. A few of them are on this board and can speak for themselves if they like.
Karren is right, Charlene. In both the Hispanic and African-American communities being gay, a crossdresser or trans can get you killed, or at least ex-communicated and disowned by friends and family. It's not only frowned upon, but can cause violent reactions. So many minority gay and trans people are in the closet or move far away and never see loved ones again if they choose to live their life as they want. My own personal experience is that my family can't and won't try to understand it, and would rather I didn't shame them (I'm Hispanic). Fortunately, I have plenty of friends and have made my own "family". :happy:

[Angela E.]

:doll:
Having been a police officer I can say with most certain you will probably never hear anything remotely negative about race when it comes to minorities. If you observe all the stories listed in the media it's always whites against them and the whites are to blame. The laws in the country are geared that if a certain minority has an offense committed against them by a white it is racial most assuredly. But the reverse is not the case. As for minorities against gender types well the reports are also not widely reported. I read with utter disgust an article about white and black relations. The author blatantly spoke that we (whites) don't know how to get along and until we do the problem will continue. Bull Crap ! I worked the inner city most of my career and I had the trust of allot of people. I treated everyone respect and even the worst of the criminal deserved my respect. We are never going to move ahead as a society till every one recognizes they have a part in the problem and accept the responsibility to change it.

:sb: :sb: :sb: :sb: :sb: :sb: :sb: :sb:
Right on lady!-Angela E.

[Kate Simmons]

I can re-enforce what Captlex said. My friend Pete is Hispanic and gay. He cannot come "out" to his family because he knows what the reaction would be. As my friend I accept him for who he is and love him for who he is. Sometimes our "real" family is our accepting friends vs our genetic family who does not try or want to understand us or our feelings. I've never had much use for the racial nonsense even as a youngster and never will. We are all equal. Never would anyone be able to convince me otherwise.:happy: Ericka/Rich

[Sedona]

My take,

While I'm not out at all (except to my wonderful girlfriend, and a couple of other close friends), as a chocolate CDer (nod to Ray Nagin and Borat), I've always tried to notice how my fellow minorities are treated by their peers and others in society, white or otherwise.

And, from what I've found, the cases vary so widely that it's impossible to make any generalizations about any particular race's attitude about this issue. Karren, I think you're a doll, but I disagree with you on this topic.

It is an interesting and worthwhile topic to discuss. But, unless a scientific study of attitudes broken down by ethnic/class/racial lines regarding CDers and transgendered issues happens, these generalizations that get cast around are purely anecdotal.

[jjjjohanne]

I always felt the most afraid of being seen by black men. However, I have had no experience with black men that was bad. However, I must say that I always try to avoid situations that would be convenient for mean behavior. The mall can be bad on Friday night, but it is quite accepting at Noon on Tuesday.

I normally feel very comfortable around asian persons. In fact, I have had several pleasant experiences when coming upon asians while obviously a man in a skirt.

My only bad experiences were when I was in an unusual costume. Nothing obscene. It was for a game, but I had to be in the mall. No one knew I was a CD.

Joe

[goofus]

I tend to agree with you Sedona. We can't make too many generalizations. There are whites who are transphobic as all get out and blacks who are very tolerant and vice versa. I *will* say that in general, women of all ethnicities are generally more tolerant than men when it comes to GLBT people. It just depends on the person...

:2c:


My take,

While I'm not out at all (except to my wonderful girlfriend, and a couple of other close friends), as a chocolate CDer (nod to Ray Nagin and Borat), I've always tried to notice how my fellow minorities are treated by their peers and others in society, white or otherwise.

And, from what I've found, the cases vary so widely that it's impossible to make any generalizations about any particular race's attitude about this issue. Karren, I think you're a doll, but I disagree with you on this topic.

It is an interesting and worthwhile topic to discuss. But, unless a scientific study of attitudes broken down by ethnic/class/racial lines regarding CDers and transgendered issues happens, these generalizations that get cast around are purely anecdotal.

[Sejd]

Interesting post. If my father inlaw knew, he would probably never talk to me again and he is from South America. The "Liberal Denmark" from where I come, is very cool on straight sexual stuff, but is very intollerant on cross dressing. Our luck is that there are several cities and towns in America where all sexual orientations are pretty much accepted. Outside of these places, nobody realy want to see men dressed as women no matter what. Sad but true. tomorrow is the day of rememberance for all CD's who died violent death in the name of intollerance. Lets not forget them.
huggs
Sejd

[Rachel Morley]

This is an extremely interesting thread. I had no idea that (apparently) the Hispanic and African American cultures are just as prejudiced as the white community can be about crossdressers. I'm wondering if there is a religious connection here? I dunno?

What is it that's so bad about being transgendered? Is it really all about being perceived as gay, and therefore the root cause of the hatred is homophobia? If it is....that's sad :sad:

[kwebb]

You have gotta be kidding right? African Americans are the most trans-homophobic race walking on the earth. It is most directly related to church.

[trannie T]

Nobody has an exclusive franchise for prejudice. Reminds me of the Tom Lehrer song, 'National Brotherhood Week.'

"All the white folks hate the black folks and
The black folks hate the white folks,
It's as American as apple pie."

If one is black or transgendered or hispanic or straight or Italian or bisexual or white or Jewish or Japanese or arab or white there is someone who dislikes them based only on that single characteristic. I try to dislike everyone on an equal basis.

[Calliope]

I try to dislike everyone on an equal basis.

Riot grrl, eh?

[GG Vanya]

Ask an African American what the term "on the down low" means.

[Vash]

Ask an African American what the term "on the down low" means.

ahhhh just what I was about to post! The down low is the practice of pretending to be heterosexual in the public life , but in reality to be homosexual .but in a more general meaning , it means to live a life of a lie. Now, of course since most cross-dressers are not gay(including myself) this kinda does not apply.Having said that, my experience is, that it is probably very similar, to others. There are those (especially very religious) who view it as taboo and then there are those who are very indifferent and every feeling in between. But let me say that those who publicly disapprove will generally accept you for who you are without any malice.

Hispanics, well that's a completely different matter. Having grown up with and dated quite a few, I can say from my experience that there is this whole "machismo" thing going on and very fem men are frowned upon

[CaptLex]

Hispanics, well that's a completely different matter. Having grown up with and dated quite a few, I can say from my experience that there is this whole "machismo" thing going on and very fem men are frowned upon
Yup, and (as an extension of that same BS macho attitude) masculine women are also frowned upon - a woman should "know her place" and not think she's on the same level as the men. Ugh! :mad:

[Audrey34]

Growing up in an inner city mostly black enviroment there was plenty of homophobia to go around. In high school one boy who was rumored to be gay was beaten up in the boys bathroom. Another boy who was rumored to be a cd was also beaten. Crap like that is what kept me so deep in the closet and very cautious to this day.
-Audrey

[jjjjohanne]

Where I live, hispanics are very nice and meek. Perhaps it is because they have struggled so hard to get to the US in order to improve their familys' lives. Perhaps it is because some of them are illegal and don't want to do anything to draw them negative attention. Where do you live where the hispanics are negative and/or outspoken? Most hispanics where I live are first generation. They immigrated themselves.

[Joy Carter]

You have gotta be kidding right? African Americans are the most trans-homophobic race walking on the earth. It is most directly related to church.


Yeah ya gotta watch out for those Christians there as bad as Nazi SS prison guards.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[tekla west]

Well reading this tends to make me think that its still a few months till national brotherhood week.

[CharleneCD]

I want to thank all of you for your answers. One of the reasons I asked is because I grew up and lived most of my life in very white bedroom community in Arizona. So most of what I know of public views of gays and the trans community is based on a white view and the media which has been stated in this thread as biased toward being negative toward whites but not other races. One reason I asked this is because now I live in Michigan and I am exposed to a much more diverse community and I wanted to find out if dealing with those of the black community might be better. Oh well, I guess its back to a person by person basis. Again, thanks for all your responses

[CaptLex]

Where I live, hispanics are very nice and meek. Perhaps it is because they have struggled so hard to get to the US in order to improve their familys' lives. Perhaps it is because some of them are illegal and don't want to do anything to draw them negative attention. Where do you live where the hispanics are negative and/or outspoken? Most hispanics where I live are first generation. They immigrated themselves.
Where do you live? If you look to the left you'll see that I live in NYC which has Hispanics from all over the Latin American world, but most come from the Caribbean, especially Puerto Rico - which means that they're U.S. citizens and not illegal. I guess this may make a difference, but I also want to point out that just because they appear "nice and meek" to outsiders, doesn't mean that they're the same way with their own. They don't expect others to understand, but they certainly expect their own community to adhere to the social laws therein.

[GG Vanya]

For a "first person" view of hispanic tolerance (or lack thereof), check out a few of Sakura Kinomoto's posts over in the TS section. She lives in Mexico City.

[JoAnnDallas]

Here is an interesting fact. The President is visiting Indonisia. That country is almost 100% Muslum. In fact 9 out of 10 are Muslum. They also strongly feel that our country policy toward Terriorism is based on hatred toward all Muslums. Just because 90% of all Terriorist are Muslums doesn't play into their thinking.

I personnlly have no problem with anybody. As long as they respect me, I respect them, no matter where they come from, what they do, or how they worship.

[CaptLex]

For a "first person" view of hispanic tolerance (or lack thereof), check out a few of Sakura Kinomoto's posts over in the TS section. She lives in Mexico City.
With all due respect to you and Sakura, Vanya, that's just one side of the story. We may all be Hispanics, but things are very different among us - Mexicans Cubans, Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, South Americans, Central Americans, etc. What we all have in common is that all these areas were colonized by Spain and therefore speak Spanish, but the cultures can be very different. It's like comparing all the different countries that were once colonized by England and now speak English.

[goofus]

Here is an interesting fact. The President is visiting Indonisia. That country is almost 100% Muslum. In fact 9 out of 10 are Muslum. They also strongly feel that our country policy toward Terriorism is based on hatred toward all Muslums. Just because 90% of all Terriorist are Muslums doesn't play into their thinking.

I personnlly have no problem with anybody. As long as they respect me, I respect them, no matter where they come from, what they do, or how they worship.

You sure you don't have a problem with Muslims? :happy:

[JoAnnDallas]

Not me, two of my best friends are muslums. One saw the same report I saw and thought it was a very stupid remark. It's like saying ALL child molesters are MEN. Not so.....Right here in Dallas in the last 6 months, THREE women were arrested for having sex with underage boys. All three are be charged with child molestation.

[goofus]

Here is an interesting fact. The President is visiting Indonisia. That country is almost 100% Muslum. In fact 9 out of 10 are Muslum. They also strongly feel that our country policy toward Terriorism is based on hatred toward all Muslums. Just because 90% of all Terriorist are Muslums doesn't play into their thinking.

I personnlly have no problem with anybody. As long as they respect me, I respect them, no matter where they come from, what they do, or how they worship.

But where do you get the 90% figure from?

[JoAnnDallas]

That was in the report on TV.

[CarmenG]

The constant saying down here in south Texas, " If you want a good woman, go to Mexico and get one. But once you get her do not let her associate with any women here in the states" THEY WILL RUIN HER !!!
You see, seems that education plays a big part in how different cultures are percieved. We Mexican men are taught from a young age values such as honor, responsibility, commintment, dedication to your family.
The Western culture,(that's us) have become so liberal that our way of thinking kinda imposes our ways on others without us really recognizing that it is occuring. WE IMPOSE OUR WILL.....
But argue what you want, it is through education of the culture that will direct them in their our prejudices. Being social or religious everyone gets caught in that trap
I say, RIGHT ON SISTER:clap:

[Sedona]

Hmmmmm,

Very interesting posts here. Now, an opinion that may not be popular among many of the folks who have posted already.

Many of you are racists, classists, ___phobes. If you've written, or are about to write some variety of (insert your favorite group for the X):

X in my experience
I'm most afraid of X
X are just as
X are the most
Ask an X about
X hate it when
and soforth

Geez, most of us are people who dress up like the other gender (not well tolerated in many communities, right?). We're living proof that all CDers aren't ______. Time to give the same respect to other groups.

Best,

[FOCD]

It was said and it is a wise observation in regards to those you have been discussing and for life in general
Keep your firiends close and your enemies closer
this way you will always be aware of what they think and what they intend to do.
Know who accepts the TG community and know even better those that dont.

[trannie T]

Sedona put it eloquently. Just because one is a member of a group which may be discriminated against does not mean they will not have a prejudice against others.
We are no worse than any other group.
We are no better than any other group.

[CarmenG]

Hmmmmm,

Very interesting posts here. Now, an opinion that may not be popular among many of the folks who have posted already.

Many of you are racists, classists, ___phobes. If you've written, or are about to write some variety of (insert your favorite group for the X):

X in my experience
I'm most afraid of X
X are just as
X are the most
Ask an X about
X hate it when
and soforth

Geez, most of us are people who dress up like the other gender (not well tolerated in many communities, right?). We're living proof that all CDers aren't ______. Time to give the same respect to other groups.

Best,


hmmmmmm,
I tell you what, we come on this site to seek knowledge and grow within ourselves by requesting feedback from others who indulge in the same pratice as I. Perhaps not to the extent as I or even less, but none the less feedback was requested.
I fail to accept one who claims to be a part of our group yet singles us out as "FOLKS". then continues by extending and invitation to join a group that best suits us...... You are such a DORK !!!!!!
My SISTERS on this site uphold the most honest of views from their perspective and I cherish their thoughts, but to class us as you have done I find very offensive and a lack of respect for all involved in this site...:p

[goofus]

I don't know how one would quantify something like that accurately but OK...


That was in the report on TV.

[Sedona]

My SISTERS on this site uphold the most honest of views from their perspective and I cherish their thoughts, but to class us as you have done I find very offensive and a lack of respect for all involved in this site...:p

I'll be away for a few days for T-giving, but I had to respond to CarmenG briefly.

You're doing a nice job of proving my point here. Is everyone offended? Am I disrespecting everyone on this site? Please note that I am not lumping anyone into a group together, whether it's on this site, or anybody else.

It should be very clear to you that I'm not making any broad generalizations (i.e. "all CDers are racists", or "men who wear pink thongs distrust men in blue bustiers"). If you are insinuating that I'm calling all racists, well, racists, then so be it. As far as the word folks, it has very broad usage, look it up.

Good night now,

[ReginaK]

I can't speak for any other ethnicity, but for blacks, we crossdressers just get lumped with gay people. And we just get hated with the gay people. And if anyone frequents majority black web based communities, you'll see that that most of the dislike of gays and transgender people is based on religion and rigid gender roles. Especially for male bodied people. Black people tend to be more forgiving of lesbians than they are of gay men and MtF people.

If you want a sample of how a black gay man is treated by a black audience, read this: http://www.keithboykin.com/arch/2006/10/25/central_state_u

I can imagine it would only be worse if her were in a dress.

[CarmenG]

I'll be away for a few days for T-giving, but I had to respond to CarmenG briefly.

You're doing a nice job of proving my point here. Is everyone offended? Am I disrespecting everyone on this site? Please note that I am not lumping anyone into a group together, whether it's on this site, or anybody else.

It should be very clear to you that I'm not making any broad generalizations (i.e. "all CDers are racists", or "men who wear pink thongs distrust men in blue bustiers"). If you are insinuating that I'm calling all racists, well, racists, then so be it. As far as the word folks, it has very broad usage, look it up.

Good night now,

I trust you had an enjoyable time off doing your T-giving stuff.
I will not respond to your comments simply because we would be straying off topic. This exchange would be better off in a "POLITICAL" forum rather than here. To exchange views of this manner is great because it is enlighting and very rewarding, not to mention exhausting.:thumbsup:

[CaptLex]

if anyone frequents majority black web based communities, you'll see that that most of the dislike of gays and transgender people is based on religion and rigid gender roles.
Ditto for the Hispanic community (in general, of course). :thumbsdn:

[Sedona]

I trust you had an enjoyable time off doing your T-giving stuff.
I will not respond to your comments simply because we would be straying off topic. This exchange would be better off in a "POLITICAL" forum rather than here. To exchange views of this manner is great because it is enlighting and very rewarding, not to mention exhausting.:thumbsup:

Yes, I did have a great Thanksgiving day with my girlfriend and family, thank you. Ate my favorite oyster and corn casserole along with the other regular stuff. Hope you enjoyed yourself as well.

Maybe you're right. All too often, when someone doesn't fall in line, that person is being "political." I think that the political forum is fine for this issue, but it gets far fewer eyes, and I do feel that my arguements, while contrary to popular opinion, are at the heart of of the topic of discussion here "tolerance based on race"

These issues affect all of us, are directly tied to CDing, and deserve the most sets of "eyes on." Perhaps the mods have an opinion.

Thanks,

[Blossom]

Charlene, i Think if you check the statistics crimes against whites are more often than not committed by whites, same is true for blacks, and just about all racial groups. The basis for this is simple people tend to stick and hang out among their own kind.

Chances are you hear about more w/w crime because you are white.

Assuming a normal distribution, there a probably an equivalent number of blacks and other ethnicities committing crimes against "sexual minorities" within their communities