Passing

[ubokvt]

What does passing mean to you? Are you trying not to be seen, to escape public censure for your deviance, or are you trying to appear more feminine, to feel more feminine, or are you somewhere in between. Why do you want/need to pass?

This is not a judgement, but a serious inquiry to help me understand what passing means for me.:thinking:

[JoAnnDallas]

Passing to me, is having others just respect the way I look, if they notice. Otherwise I just want to blend in.

[vermontlady]

I would say that "passing to me, means, that you can fit into your surroundings, as a "lady", in as many ways that you can. And to be happy with how things, turned out, when you dressed. And even, if you got a few cute looks too.
That always helps someones confidence, that is trying to begin there transition, to as much of a women, as you wish.

Chrissy

[Penny]

Sometimes I have very strong need to pass, gas that is!:heehee: Otherwise, I'm OK.

:hugs:
Penny

[Charleen]

It's not important to me as I'm adrogynous. On my days off I go totally en femme, but have letting the pelt grow back for the winter as I work outside alot. Fer instance, I'm going to the car show at Daytona on Thursday, and will be wearing panties, bra, panty hose as they keep my legs warm, femme jeans, femme sweater, and a femme denim jacket. I will also have a touch of makeup on, mascara, hint of eye shadow, and lip gloss. Oh yeah, my nails done and polished with Sally Hansen Strawberry Cream. I'm gonna have a blast! Do I care if I'm looked at askew occasionally? Not anymore. So as far as passing, I'm with Penny on this one!
Love and xxxx, Lily

[Holly]

Passing is way over-rated. The only person I have to please is me.

[Carroll]

Passing------when that damn idiot in the subaru is driving only 45 in a 55 and you need to go 65:D

[Karren H]

Passing is highly over rated....a passing fad!! :) And when I'm out enfemme I try to look as much like a woman as I can.....and if I pass, fine, if not, fine also!! But I really don't care whether I pass or not any more!!! And I don't check to see if I pass......got the stuck-up female attitude down pat!! Nose in the air.... Like I own the place!! Hehe.

Now when I'm down in the coal fields of Southern WV and Eastern KY.....that's another story!! You either pass or die trying down there!! They got guns in them there trucks, buuuuudddy!! :D. And aren't afraid to use them on some pervert from up north!! Lol. So I still go out enfemme there......but I'm very very careful to not get killed!! If I did my wife would kill me........more.....again!!

Love Karren

[Calliope]

You either pass or die trying down there!!

Which confirms my feeling that, in some instances, '100%' passing is a sophisticated closet.

[Janet99cd]

Passing to me is being able to go out and be completely accepted as a woman. I live in a small city and secrecy is a must so it still remains a fantasy for me. If i was passable i wouldn't be in the closet lol.:heehee:

[Cristi]

Passing for me is....

20% looking and feeling as feminine as possible

80% 'camoflage'. If I look like and am seen as a woman, I won't draw the wrong kind of attention when out in public.

I guess if I were to feel safe and know that I wouldn't have any problems with teenage girls, gangs of boys, rednecks or even, to be honest, the stern disapproving look from passers by, I wouldn't feel the 'need' to pass.

So I guess in a society that didn't judge me and the way I dressed, I would still dress (of course) but wouldn't feel any need to pass.

[Susan Johnson]

I would like to go out in feminine clothes and be able to walk down the street and not be recognised for anything other than a genetic girl. small hope though. I am 6' tall and 16 stone so any chance of passing is blown before I try but one can always dream. I don't want to appear glamourous, just to blend in and not be noticed.
Susan

[Jenna1561]

Passing? For me it means venturing into the world beyond my home, i.e. the malls, shops, markets, restaurants, theaters, stadiums, highways and byways and being seen and treated as a woman.

I am not trying NOT to be seen, I WANT to be seen, but seen as a woman. I don't believe that any of what I do is deviant, though others may wrongly see it as such. I want to be as feminine as I need to be in order to be accepted as a woman.

When, not if, but when, I am clocked/read, I become disappointed in myself for failing in my presentation and I wonder what "gave me away" to that particular person/group. Sometimes I still get embarrassed and leave the area, though of late, I usually attempt to continue on. Packs of young boys/men are the worst and when I am read by them, I usually attempt to make a quick exit.

I try to pass - passing IS important to me.


Jenna

[Sweet Jane]

Hi

Passing...what it means to me is that it's something I don't do. My looks, actions and attitudes are all far too masculine, so alas, I'm confined to my closet. This probably more than anything else, keeps my crossdressing in perspective.

[JoAnnDallas]

Sweet Jane.... If your avatar is really you, you PASS.

[Lisa Golightly]

Ever heard of the Holy Grail? Know anyone who has found it?

Passing for me means wasting your life in a futile pusuit of mimicry in the hope that you will be taken for something you are not. I decided long, long, long ago that I wasn't embarrassed to be me, and as such I was quite happy to shock and awe in equal measure. Better to be admired for who you are than for who you are not.

[JoAnnDallas]

Didn't Harrison Ford find it in his second Radier's movie. :D

[Lisa Golightly]

Didn't Harrison Ford find it in his second Radier's movie. :D

I prefer Monty Python ;)

[Jenna1561]

Didn't Harrison Ford find it in his second Radier's movie. :D

Actually, I believe it was the third installment. "Indianna Jones and the Last Crusade", was the title of that one, I think. The second was "Indianna Jones and the Temple of Doom"; that was the one with the little boy and all the bugs and things on the dinner table - YUCK!


Jenna

[tekla west]

Been lighting that Grail Beacon again Lisa? Naughy, naughty!

I'm supprised that no one called out this phrase: "escape public censure for your deviance."

I'm not even sure what was meant by this, but I'm sure it does not sound good.

And I never worry about passing, I do as I like, what I like, get called sir at times, who cares?

[Sweet Jane]

Sweet Jane.... If your avatar is really you, you PASS.


<---- yes that is me, as is every photo I have posted here.

Thanks JoAnn for your vote of confidence, but I don't feel I pass....maybe Lisa sums it up when she speaks of the search for the holy grail. In my eyes, I'm a tin plated mug trying to pass myself of as a silver chalice....

[Jenna1561]

Ahh but .. according to the dashing Indianna Jones and his erstwhile companions, the Holy Grail is not a bejeweled silver chalice, but the plain wooden drinking vessel of a carpenter.


Jenna

[Lisa Golightly]

Been lighting that Grail Beacon again Lisa? Naughy, naughty!

Bad, bad, wicked Lisa ;)

[Lissa Stevens]

For some of us, me in particular I think passing is looking good enough to not be ridiculed by others. A lot of us live in very redneck areas where if you are different you are made fun of or worse. While I wouldn't fight it if I looked like a GG I want to pass so I will not be noticed.

[StephaniejaneSmith]

well after half a bottle of merlot i think passing to me means being treated as woman by people that dont know me, im not there yet but would love to be and am nowhere near giving up, i will succeed, or was it survive ?

Stephanie

[carolinewalker_2000]

I guess if we are truely honest with ourselves, few of us could walk around in broad daylight and not be read. (For those of you who are lucky enough to be blessed with really feminine features and body; good for you!)

For me "passing" means being confident within myself that I look as feminine as it is possible for me to achieve. Having said that, as I am firmly closeted very few people have had the chance to critically tell me to what extent I have achieved that aspiration!

[Kimkandy]

What does passing mean to you?

Isn't that when the quarterback throws the ball downfield to the receiver...

Kim

:dom: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping:

[Karen Francis]

The number thrown out in another post is about right, 90% of us couldn't pass, but under what circumstances? There are some huge variables here. Where and when you are trying to pass, among other TG's or in the general public? Time of day, surroundings, all have their effects.
For me, it is important that I draw no attention to myself, just melt into the crowd. To acheive that end, I dress appropriately for my 53 years. Helps to go with a genetic female friend.
But if I could not be convincing, I would not go out in public and invite ridicule, either direct( snickering or double takes as you walk past) or indirect( I think that was a guy next to us at the McDonalds in the pink top and jeans.
So far so good, in the past 6 or 7 outings the only way I have been made is if I open up my mouth. Still working on that...

[Sierra Evon]

All that passing really means , well to me anyway , is just a state of mind ,
that how you feel in your femininity , on the inside , and projecting that same feeling on the outside.........

[Calliope]

Passing for me means wasting your life in a futile pusuit of mimicry in the hope that you will be taken for something you are not. I decided long, long, long ago that I wasn't embarrassed to be me, and as such I was quite happy to shock and awe in equal measure. Better to be admired for who you are than for who you are not.

Jeez, one upon a time I thought I was a writer but, dang, Lisa, you put Oscar Wilde outta business.

[Ranee Daze]

Passing is the goal, to complete the illusion, or to erase the maleness.
Whatever, face it, you will always get read to some degree. Even TS girls get read. My goal, since I dress to go out, is to be more convincing and to try something new each time. The important thing for me is not so much getting read as "a" man in a great aquamarine suit and silk blouse, but confounding people's ability to say exactly "which" man is in that suit and blouse. Then I'm happy.

[CarmenG]

Didn't Harrison Ford find it in his second Radier's movie. :D

I thought he lost it to Mother Earth....

[windycissy]

passing to me means being treated as woman by people that dont know me

That's about as good a definition as I've seen....I love the way my clothes feel and look on me, and I enjoy passing through the world as a woman - maybe that's why they call it passing?

[Country girl]

Ok, I admit, I've never had to worry about that, but there are a lot of GG's out there that aren't femine looking. Some by choice. There are also a lot more GG's these days that are tall and big boned. Not just your 6' models either. I used to be a manager for Lane Bryant and I've seen GG's of all shapes and sizes. The important thing is to look the best you can and hold your head up high, smile and look em right in the eye! In today's society most people aren't going to give you a second glance unless you are stunningly attractive or are dressed enfemme with a full beard and mustache. :eek: Confidence can go along way to convincing people you are something you aren't. So to all the gurls out there, heads high, smile and have fun!:love:

[Jesse69]

Passing is very important to me because I go shopping in drag and don't want to be read. Mostly, I just have to work on my voice, as I look good enough visually.

[Deidra Cowen]

Passing means you go out in public and everyone thinks you are a female. That includes having the look, the mannerisms and da voice! I know tons of Tgirls out of all of them probably 3 are passable. They go to straight bars and even there people don't know they are Tgirls.

For the rest of us its just important to be happy and my deal is to just look as good as I can. I go tons of places as a Tgirl, can't fool everyone all the time mainly due to my voice. But I can be confident, happy, classy and hopefully attractive...and make a good impression on people.

But heck yeah I will not lie to ya...would love to PASS!!! But its not goint to happen so I just have fun.

[tall sam]

For those who do pass, those who think they pass and those who dont care, WELL done to you all. As for those like me - and there are many, who dont pass and dont have a hope in hell for various reasons (being 6'6'' is my little problem) its not easy. I have gone out once and think I looked very good - professional make up job, nice evening outfit etc, but still got the looks and chirps - I clearly did not pass. This was not easy, I felt femm, thought I looked fem, have worked hard on fem walk and moves, even voice toning, but when it came to the crunch, well, it was disappointing. It wont stop me crossdressing and probably going out again but a bit of the magic (or illusion) is gone!!:sad:

[Glenda58]

Passing Is not what I want I want to bend in. Act and look like a woman and lady should. Have been with TGs who just want to be themselves and don't care if they pass. Some want to stand out. This is a fantasy that I'm living and I know it. Some days I bend in some I don't. But I won't stop going out.

[ReginaK]

Passing means only your doctor knows who you really are.

[beckypink72]

I try to look as much fem as I can. So more so better as it can be a bit difficult in Scotland similar to KY or WV they just don't have guns here. Most important is I pass for myself, what is the most difficult I think as am my worst critic I would say

Becky

[Denise Anderson]

Passing....

*Smiles...*

You know you do... when you dont worry about it...

Denise
xxx

[GypsyKaren]

I find it kind of amusing that after so many spend a lifetime trying to fool everyone into thinking they're something they're not, a man, they now devote themselves trying to fool everyone into thinking they're something they're not, a genetic woman. The key to me is accepting myself for who I am, a person, and living my life as such. I live my life as Karen because that is who I am, and if people can't accept me as that, then that's their problem.

I don't care if I get read, in fact it happens all the time...so what? I am always treated as a human being because I act like one, that's all I want to achieve. I only go to straight bars, I do the grocery shopping when it's the most busy, I go to the mall on Friday nights when it's full of the dreaded teen-age girls, in other words I don't try to hide or sneak by...never any probs. So many of my friends worry so much about "passing" that they don't have a good time, to me that's such a waste. To me, passing is for handing over the mashed potatoes at the dinner table, not for people...works for me.

Karen

[ubokvt]

I find it kind of amusing that after so many spend a lifetime trying to fool everyone into thinking they're something they're not, a man, they now devote themselves trying to fool everyone into thinking they're something they're not, a genetic woman. The key to me is accepting myself for who I am, a person, and living my life as such. I live my life as Karen because that is who I am, and if people can't accept me as that, then that's their problem.

I don't care if I get read, in fact it happens all the time...so what? I am always treated as a human being because I act like one, that's all I want to achieve. I only go to straight bars, I do the grocery shopping when it's the most busy, I go to the mall on Friday nights when it's full of the dreaded teen-age girls, in other words I don't try to hide or sneak by...never any probs. So many of my friends worry so much about "passing" that they don't have a good time, to me that's such a waste. To me, passing is for handing over the mashed potatoes at the dinner table, not for people...works for me.

Karen



Thank you all I have so much to think about most of all what wonderful supportive people are here. Gypsy Karen,,, WOW:thumbsup: really hit the heart thank you :hugs: Sara

[Nikki T]

I would say that "passing to me, means, that you can fit into your surroundings, as a "lady", in as many ways that you can. And to be happy with how things, turned out, when you dressed. And even, if you got a few cute looks too.
That always helps someones confidence, that is trying to begin there transition, to as much of a women, as you wish.

Chrissy

Ya hit the nail on the head with that one girl, just being comfortable and hoping to not be glared at Like ( thats a guy in a dress dear ):heehee:

[Joni Beauman]

I was thinking it was important to me to pass because of some major gender issues. Maybe the true motivation after all (for wanting to pass) is just to limit humiliation: "Hey, that's a man!" - I've had that a couple of times. Hmmm.
Joni

[tekla west]

If I would ever be dumb enough to sign up with a band doing a world tour - again, Lisa best look out when I get to London Town.

[Kelsy]

I'm supprised that no one called out this phrase: "escape public censure for your deviance."

I'm not even sure what was meant by this, but I'm sure it does not sound good.

Deviant - departure from the "norm" - Public censure- public displeasure and conseqences for not being "normal"???????

Jennifer

[tammysuetv]

I think for me blending is the best way to put it. I want to look normal when I am out and not stand out to people.

[Amy Hepker]

Well, Passing to me is looking like a Female and being able to be acceptable by Females as a Female. Not to look like a guy in a dress. To feel and look pretty. To be Accepted as the person I am on the inside. I am already accepted for who I am on the outside. I do love the feeling (of clothes) and smells (Perfume, Deoderant, Nail Polish, Make up, Lip Stick), that surround a Female. Oh those wonderful Feelings and Smells!

[Modesty Blaise]

I've not yet tried, I suppose I would want to because I would want to be as feminine as I feel I ought to be, And of course to avoid ridicule. I don't want to look like a circus performer (most of the time!:D ) I just want to be accepted, blend in.

Also Lisa, your life sounds fun, especially the inspiring awe and watching Monty Python parts!:heehee: If your in London will you be visiting Spamalot!

Love
MB

[Kelsy]

Passing for me would be just going out with no harrasment and to many looks of disgust! Maybe to recieve a smile of acceptance from a stranger.:happy:

Jennifer

[EricaCD]

I am pleased to see so many of us rejecting a definition of "passing" that is predicated on deception (i.e., systemically misleading the general populaton to believe one is a genetic female)! I must say that I like both of the refinements offered in this thread: First, there are those who, like me, consider "passing" use of presentation, mannerism and character as a means to enable the world around us to willingly relate to us as females. Then there are those for whom "passing" is strictly a matter of how they perceive themselves - not where I am at personally, but arguably an even more enlightened perspective!

Erica

[vbcdgrl]

To me, passing simply means one can go out in public and be perceived as a female.
I feel I can and do pass, but I haven't gone to the mall yet, which I consider the ultimate test. One of these days......

Vikki

[Sam-antha]

"Passing" is in itself a debateable word.

When I am dressed as the woman, then I am content if I seem to fit into the crowds or whatever number of people there are around at that time. Maybe just me by myself. In a country lane or in a city street.

It is to be content in that state is the object, to be happy with the projected image and never mind whether that image is 100% female. (What is a 100% female image anyway).
Blending in, well I do not know, but I do like my minis... at my age..
~Samm

[Joni Beauman]

Ah, and a view across the Princes Street Gardens towards castle hill - Market Street in Edinburgh. And there's a nice shop right across Princes Street from where you are standing for women's "foundation" garments. But I bet you know that! (worked in herbarium at RBG a couple years ago for a week). Joni

[Ellie]

Passing hasn't been all that difficult for me, at least passing at a distance :lol:

Up close, my voice pretty much gives me away but this Halloween I went to work fully dressed in Conservative office wear and even my officemates (for over 2 years now) didn't read me until I looked straight at them for a minute and even then they didn't get that it was me until I talked.

When I dressed up for the evening I got more then one whistle and even got a couple of guys looking me up and down and undressing me with their eyes. Undressing that is until they took a good look at my not so well done beard cover (it was good enough for the office but later could have used some touch up).

Passing to me has a two fold meaning. One, to pass by blending in with other women in the same situation. Which is great for daytime and out at a casino but the other "passing" to me is to try and be as HOT of a TV as I can be when I'm at the clubs where everyone knows I'm a CD.

[Christine Kelly]

Ever heard of the Holy Grail? Know anyone who has found it?

Passing for me means wasting your life in a futile pusuit of mimicry in the hope that you will be taken for something you are not. I decided long, long, long ago that I wasn't embarrassed to be me, and as such I was quite happy to shock and awe in equal measure. Better to be admired for who you are than for who you are not.

I could not agree with you more, Lisa.