This article almost made me cry/Gender and Children

[Just Plain Kay]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/02/us/02child.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5094&en=4ba55558f8787f74&hp&ex=1165122000&partner=homepage

[Maggie Kay]

Kay,
Fascinating read. It is amazing that society is progressing so far yet it still seems some are so backward. I read that environmental toxins mimic estrogens and they may be causing a dramatic increase in cross gender related situations. The result in my opinion is that society is being forced to deal with gender issues and I say it is about time!
Thanks for posting this link.

Another Kay ...:happy:

[Katrina]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/02/us/02child.html

There is one quote in there from a little boy: "It feels like a nightmare I’m a boy." That sent a chill down my back.

[JeanneF]

Wow, very interesting article.

While I'm generally not a huge fan of the overly-permissive parenting that seems to be prevalent these days, it seems like a happy by-product that parents are willing to accept and deal with gender variance issues in their children. Much better than getting called a Nancy-boy for wanting to play with Barbies like I did when I was a kid.

[eleventhdr]

After reading this stuff that is that stuff like this is finally beginning to work itself out after a very long time.

People are fianlly beginning to realize that gender ians sex are just perhaps interrelated and that one is not predisposed to being one gender and or sex locked into it for life just because you are born of one sex and want and fek that you are the other sex and or gender indeed that you are suppose to be free to be who and what you aree really suppose to be

I think and fel that if a boy and or girl feels and know;s that he or she is suppose to be female and or male that it should be allowed that they grow up and be the sexx that they are most comfrotable being and if that mean's chanoing sex and or gender then so be it one must be rerally allowed to be what one is suppose to be and hang it all why not.

it is not for other s to determine how and who we are suppose to be but what we as indivisduals truly do feel that we are what the heck is wrong with being who you are suppose to be male or female is really makes no difference at all>

I just wish that when i ahd been small that someone would have reconnized this and had allowed me to be who i was suppose to be it sure would have lessed the burden growing up isf we had only been allowed to be who and what we were suppose to be hurray that this is finally coming about.

And hurray that this little boy and others just like him may just win the end and be allowed to be the esx gender tnat is realy right for them at long last indeed.

So my vote is for them male and or female to be as it was intented to be!

More later on this

Suzy!

[Sejd]

Interesting read indeed, loved the signs of progress.
hugs
Sejd

[Clare]

A very insightful article. A few comments tho...

I don't agree that the majority of the children grow up to be Gay with the remainder being hetrosexual and just a few who are transgendered. I firmly believe that the ratio of sexual orientation is the same regardless of Gender preference in the general population.

I also disagree that children should be given hormone blockers until they decide their Gender orientation irrespective of age and pubesence. I firmly believe that they should experience puberty so that they can make an informed choice knowing what the difference is like between pre/post hormonal influences on the body/mind.

Otherwise, it's good to see that issues of this nature are being considered in a positive way by the medical community and along with it, public awareness.

[Lauren B]

I like that it's finally starting to become okay to let kids just be, instead of just continuing the mad rush to box everyone up. It'll take time for that to be common, but this is one of the most encouraging articles I've read in a long time.

[Scotty]

Amen......

When I was 5 and played with my sisters toys my dad reprogrammed me.
Now I have to undo that, although some of it's good to have as a woman so I'm not helpless (automotive etc), it's hard.....

That lil boy on the cover looks just like a girl, maybe it is an environmental thing or maybe its always been.

They use frogs to check environmental hazards and the past two decades are showing more and more unisex frogs...

I've even read about gay deer in the forest, go figure..

[Kimberley]

Excellent although I do disagree with the pdoc from Toronto. I suspect his "studies" are anecdotal not scientific.

The other and probably more important concern here is pandering with a new political correctness. The same thing happened to the LGB community and they are still fighting this artificial treatment. The treatment should be no more than "Oh well. Turn to page 90 of your math books."

That isnt to say that transgressions should be overlooked, not at all, but they should be dealt with in the same vein as any other human rights abuse.

As to the parents. Yes they do have a difficult task but one that can be rewarding if they view their child only with love and devotion that naturally lead to the child's security. When they have to fight their own cisgendered attitudes in raising the child, they have not come to understand anything about being transgendered, what it means or the life ahead for the child. They are too often (in this article) focusing on the negatives and problems facing them and the child rather than the positives.

I also wonder about the use of blockers at puberty. I am not so sure that it is a good thing to allow the onset of puberty. I say this because psychologically a child only begins to think in abstract terms at around age 13. So by allowing puberty the raging hormones could interfere with the decisions that child is going to make, and s/he is going to have to make them especially on a social level. This is a critical time of normal growth and development and it should be the child's choice. This choice has to be undertaken with the child's input of feelings in conjunction with good counselling for both the child and the parents.

Of course this is purely my opinion.

I wish I could turn back the pysiological clock 50 years.... perhaps life would have been different.

:hugs:
Kimberley

[Joy Carter]

I think this might be the child I saw on television. He for all intense and purposes was a girl. She carried herself and acted like any five year old female. It would be tough to see your child grow up like that but she wouldn't know any different until someone pointed it out to her. I applaud the parents and their courage.

[Calliope]

Regardless of the NYT's take, they are the organ of US mainstream thought. Something's in the air now.

[Lisa Maren]

I was very moved by this article indeed. I am a grad school student studying Psychology and aspiring to specialize in gender issues. I read another article earlier about how there are not enough gender issues professionals to work with these children and that made me want to work with these children. This article makes me feel ten times more strongly about it.

I believe that self-esteem is absolutely vital because everything we do in life requires self-esteem: getting back on your bike (while learning how to ride one) after falling down, spending the night at a friend's house for the first time, pursuing romance, asking a girl to the prom, applying to high schools, colleges, grad schools and jobs, being able to believe that you can succeed at those schools or jobs, going to social functions and feeling comfortable, learning to play a musical instrument, performing your skills on that instrument, even believing that you have a future worth living for etc etc etc all requires self-esteem if one wants these things to be bearable/enjoyable experiences.

It's very ironic to me that the people who are so worried about the child turning out okay seem to be the same ones who don't care if the child's self-esteem survives. They want to box them in until "the kids are old enough" to make a decision and yet that boxing in can be very, very harmful to a child because doing so unquestionably sends a clear message that how they feel and what they want is wrong. That is damaging to self-esteem, period! Following the rules is not always a good thing. There are times when following the rules does more harm than good.

By the way, I didn't start puberty (naturally) until I was fifteen years old and I turned out stable and successful, so I cannot believe that delaying puberty is too much of a problem unless it's done recklessly or without careful enough medical supervision -- note that I do think a second opinion would be a very good idea.

Speaking of my delayed puberty, the remedy for that was four testosterone shots which I wish to hell I had never received! I have a thick beard which is very difficult to cover with makeup (which I know because I just bought my first set yesterday), more hair on my arms and legs (and even knuckes, dammit) and more masculine bone and muscle structure probably because of those shots.

Intersexed people often say that they wish their parents had never selected a gender for them. The point is that if these children are anything like that then they will feel the same way. Even for those who don't, if their self-esteem is intact then they can deal with being razzed.

Hell, boys razz each other naturally, really. I didn't always like that, but I dealt with it. The razzing was there in grade school, junior high, and to a lesser extent in high school (it wasn't anything alarming for me, though).

Anyway, I guess my rant is long enough. To sum up, have you seen those square Japanese watermelons? They do that to make more space and they turn out square because of that. The point: if you stuff a watermelon in a square container while it grows up, it will turn out square -- and no watermelon is naturally square.

If a child's inner gender is ambiguous, then how does it make sense to proceed as though it's not? Why not proceed working with the fact that the child's inner gender is ambiguous and support the child accordingly?

If your child was a born artist would you raise him/her as a scientist until he/she was old enough or would you watch and wait and support the child's natural artistic abilities and personality? You'd do the latter, wouldn't you? In fact wouldn't you even encourage your child by arranging for music/painting/etc lessons or classes? So why do it any differently for gender because other people can't handle it? You don't want the child to grow up believing that those other people who can't handle it are right about them, do you? No!

Self-esteem is #1!

Hugs,
Lisa

[MJ]

A very insightful article. A few comments tho...

I don't agree that the majority of the children grow up to be Gay with the remainder being hetrosexual and just a few who are transgendered. I firmly believe that the ratio of sexual orientation is the same regardless of Gender preference in the general population.


I also disagree that children should be given hormone blockers until they decide their Gender orientation irrespective of age and pubesence. I firmly believe that they should experience puberty so that they can make an informed choice knowing what the difference is like between pre/post hormonal influences on the body/mind.

Otherwise, it's good to see that issues of this nature are being considered in a positive way by the medical community and along with it, public awareness.


i disagree with you here. because if i had a choice back then i would not want to go through puberty ... would not want to bulk up have my voice break ... do you have any idea how hard it is to get a female voice it sucks..
f2m have there breast grow and that other thing oh yea PMS .. we all have our little problems but hey i for one would prefer not to have gone through it. it's too late now i just have to try harder to be the woman i should have been at birth...
how much easier would it have been to have never gone through puberty

[Kimberley]

Gee, Marissa, I am not so sure about this puberty thing. I know that for me to have had a choice it would have been to go as female, but that choice didnt exist at the time. We were still "mentally ill".

Does this mean we should force every child to make the decision, No. But those of us who do identify should be given that choice. Unfortunatley, there are still too many ppl who think all of this as a negative and force their children down the same road so many of us have already travelled.

:hugs:
Kimberley

[cutechloe]

I'm sorry, I was only able to get part way through the article because I just started to feel so damn mad about my stupid situation. I really hate my parents in some ways because they wouldn't listen to me about this when I was a kid. And I kinda blame that on me being so screwed up now, inefficient and the like, mainly because half of my attention and energy is tied up everyday thinking about how I might have turned out. I'll stop now. Grrrr.

[Sharon]

I'm sorry, I was only able to get part way through the article because I just started to feel so damn mad about my stupid situation. I really hate my parents in some ways because they wouldn't listen to me about this when I was a kid. And I kinda blame that on me being so screwed up now, inefficient and the like, mainly because half of my attention and energy is tied up everyday thinking about how I might have turned out. I'll stop now. Grrrr.

Don't hate your parents for attempting to raise you in the best way they knew how, no matter if they ultimately made the correct decision or not. Having a young child say that they want to live life dressed in the clothing of the opposite sex can be a no win situation for them. You either allow that child to dress as they want, and risk seeing him or her be hurt emotionally and physically by others, or you don't. Parents have an innate need to protect their children, and they will make mistakes in doing so.

Hating your parents at this point is worthless and a waste of emotion.

When I first read this article in The Times, I was surprised, yet happy, to read that 80% eventually return to wearing the traditionally acceptable clothing for their (physical) gender. It just helped show that clothing does not make the person, and allowing a child to express themselves in this manner will not "condemn" him or her to a difficult life.

[Rita Knight]

Hi Everyone,
Here are 3 Letters to the Editor that appeared in today's paper concerning this article.

Young Children and Gender Choices (3 Letters)

Published: December 7, 2006
To the Editor:

As a transgender child growing up in the late 1950s and ’60s, I can only applaud “Supporting Boys or Girls When the Line Isn’t Clear” (front page, Dec. 2).

In my teens, when I finally made my self-declaration as being identified as a different gender, a result was an almost immediate trip to a psychiatrist.

Until my gender change at age 48, I did not really discuss my identification with anyone. Many gender-variant children ultimately do decide that they will live with their gender assignment at birth.

But the psychological toll on those who make such a choice and never really resolve the issue is big; the number of gender-variant people of all stripes who suffer from chronic depression and/or die of suicide cannot be overstated.

Three cheers for those mental health professionals who support the right of children to be who they think they are and the parents who support their children’s gender-different expression. They are the ones who ultimately allow the celebration of life in all of its natural diversity.

Pat Mayne
Boulder, Colo., Dec. 2, 2006

•

To the Editor:

As a child, I desperately wanted to be a boy. Puberty was the one thing that allowed me to figure out my gender and sexual identity.

This is why I am so appalled at the doctors and parents who “block puberty medically to buy time to figure out” who the children are. This is ethically horrifying.

Beyond that, it is also counterproductive: no one can figure out identity without going through puberty. For me, puberty made it impossible to pass as a boy.

My new hormones also made it very clear that I was attracted to boys. I’m still a tomboy, but I’m also perfectly at ease with being a heterosexual woman. I wore a dress at my wedding and liked how it looked.

All I can do is urge parents to understand and accept their children’s gender and sexual identity and let nature take its course.

Andréa Smith
Greenbelt, Md., Dec. 2, 2006

•

To the Editor:

As a psychologist who works with transgender adults on a daily basis, I see the long-term effects of forcing transgender children to conform.

Most of my patients have memories of being discouraged or punished for gender-inappropriate behaviors. They made every effort to cooperate with their parents’ wishes and with the messages they received from the people around them.

Later in life, they find the pressure to express their inner gender identity to be unbearable. They may wait for their parents to die, for their children to go to college or for retirement before they finally make a gender transition.

Others are in the middle of building a family and career when they are finally worn down by the internal struggle.

That small group of children who will grow up to be transsexual are clearly best served by being allowed to express themselves in childhood and to make an early transition.

Katherine Rachlin
New York, Dec. 4, 2006

[MJ]

well i too sent a Letter to the Editor. what a wonderful story . but most of us grew up in a different time. if my mum and dad had to raise me in this day and age they would let me be who i am... but it's too late .. now if it's meant to be it's up to me... and i am on my way... hugs

[Kimberley]

I also grew up in the 50’s and 60’s. The sad thing is that those attitudes of the day are still ingrained in the attitudes of our generation. Younger generations seem to be slightly more accepting but we still have a long way to go.


“But the psychological toll on those who make such a choice and never really resolve the issue is big; the number of gender-variant people of all stripes who suffer from chronic depression and/or die of suicide cannot be overstated.”

In this case, I am the poster child. Even today it is a struggle to survive. (Yeah steady old Kimberley.)



“As a psychologist who works with transgender adults on a daily basis, I see the long-term effects of forcing transgender children to conform.

Most of my patients have memories of being discouraged or punished for gender-inappropriate behaviors. They made every effort to cooperate with their parents’ wishes and with the messages they received from the people around them. “

I have to wonder how much of the problem is the open abuse and how much is mental in that we are denied true self expression? In my case, I have to say it was about equal growing up but as an adult is all emotional. One is not less than the other.


“Later in life, they find the pressure to express their inner gender identity to be unbearable. They may wait for their parents to die, for their children to go to college or for retirement before they finally make a gender transition.

Others are in the middle of building a family and career when they are finally worn down by the internal struggle.”

Both of the above are well stated reasons for my decision to not transition, as painful a decision as that is. We still need love and that is something that would be taken from me. I wish I could say I had the strength to go it alone, but I don’t, at least for today. My "awakening took place in my mid-late 30's when career and family building was the priority. Today, it is just the daily struggle for survival.


“That small group of children who will grow up to be transsexual are clearly best served by being allowed to express themselves in childhood and to make an early transition.”

They should hang that quote in the office of every physician, pdoc and school in the country.


:hugs:
Kimberley

[janedoe311]

If this keeps up past puberty then, I would say it is gender ID disorder. But as a parent I would not let the boy go to school as a "girl". This would really mess him up if it is a passing thing. You first few years of life can and do set your personality.

[JenniferMint]

If this keeps up past puberty then, I would say it is gender ID disorder. But as a parent I would not let the boy go to school as a "girl". This would really mess him up if it is a passing thing. You first few years of life can and do set your personality.

Mess him up how?

Hmm, I suppose he could, uhh, become a crossdresser later in life because of it o_O

[Angela E.]

I was one of these kids.I wish people had been so enlightened in the 50`s and 60`s when I was growing up.-Angela:gh:

[Kellicd848]

Things would have been so much easier to just let kids be kids. When I was growing up in the 50's and 60"s if you showed any inclination to be feminine you would be chastised.
I am glad things are starting to change.
Katy

[livy_m_b]

The article is interesting and hopeful, but the photo is fabulous. It reminds me of the scene in Ma Vie en Rouge (My Life in Pink) where the parents finally allow their "boygirl" to wear a dress - he's so happy she almost skips to the party. Very touching scene! :)