How often is SO participation required?

[kittypw GG]

This question is for heterosexual CD's. I'm sorry to exclude transexuals but I think that your situation is different and this is a true problem for some wives of CD's.

I have been mulling this around in my head and trying to come up with something that makes both my hubby and I happy. I have talked a lot about my situation and you can look back at my past posts so I won't go into detail except to say that I have not done a lot of crossdressing in the last couple of years due to circumstances. Now I am willing to entertain somthing reasonable. Underline reasonable.

I want to say this delicatly. Crossdressing is not something that I think about nor do I really want to. This is something that my husband desires. I have enjoyed it in the past but I don't want it to consume my life. I have agreed to participate once a month. My hubby wears girls underware, paints his toenails and I know for sure that he wears lipstick (probably other things too I just can't be sure) when I am not home. He does not consider this crossdressing, I do. He says that my participation is required for him to really enjoy it. Ok so, is there anything wrong with once a month? He really does have free rein when I am not home. I only get mad about it when it interferes with our sex life. When he CD's by himself he reads fictionmainia stories and I think endulges in some self love which I am cool with as long as it doesn't interfer or take the place of a healthy sex life between the two of us.

Ok so here is the question. How often should a spouse or girlfriend have to participate to keep their CD happy? How often should our CD's be the man in our lives? The flip side of the coin is just as important don't you think?

[Kahlan51]

This question is for heterosexual CD's.
Ok so here is the question. How often should a spouse or girlfriend have to participate to keep their CD happy? How often should our CD's be the man in our lives? The flip side of the coin is just as important don't you think?

I think what is important is communication. My SO and I have been tossing back and forth since halloween as I was dressed up about 3 time in 2days and she expressed fears about how dressing up would "take over" our relationship so I backed off. She is fine with me dressing up but wants equal time for other activities and some bounderies around when I dress up. I think that is very resonable and we are in the process of doing that. I always make sure to talk to her and discuss it before we engage in any CD activity together. I guess the short answer is whatever you work out with each other and to lovingly respect each others bounderies. Love Kahlan

[Tiffy]

Well really that is hard to answer. Each person is different and we do not come with an owners manual ( i wish we did). So what may be good for you and your family may not work for me and mine. It really helps ease the strees of it with the participation of our SO. And at times if our SO's participate then I think we feel less guilty for indulging in dressing.
I dress each and every time we come in the house. Most time it is just a nightgown or something. But my wife says I have a better attitude when I wear what I want. But I do not wear a wig and makeup most times. I do that about once or twice a month. And my wife sees no difference between dressed and undressed. Both are just one to her. Just the name changes but most times it is still honey. And I do not take on a different role either. I am just me. I am just a more laid back version of myself. I just have the fem name to fit the way I feel and a base for mail and internet use.
So I think that each home has to just find a balance that works for them. I am not saying that is easy or even possible in some cases. I know this has not been much help.
I am not sure I can be much help with this, it is just kinda a little window into another cd house. To show how different, as CD's we are and to show that our spouses see and feel about crossdressing differently.
Best of luck in finding your balance............


Kisses & :hugs: , Tiffy

[Kate Simmons]

You know my thoughts on this Kitty. If I were your SO, I would definately value your feelings on it. You have to decide what kind of comfort level you have with this. Personally, I'd rather read super hero comics or a good novel rather than that fiction crap as it does absolutely nothing for me. Maybe it gives him a sexual "buzz", I dunno.If I had an accepting partner, I would definately show come consideration for her feelings.Otherwise, I'm being self centered and letting it control me and that, to be quite honest, would scare the hell out of me. My wife never accepted my crossdressing but there was an uneasy peace between the two of us. Better that then nothing I figured. I feel what you are asking is reasonable. I would have been more than happy for once a month if my wife had accepted it. It depends on the individual, however. I feel you've done more than your share. His turn.:happy: Ericka Kay

[Holly]

Kitty, first of all, an SO should never, ever, have to participate. If you don't really want to, as you state in your post, then your really shouldn't. All it will do is build up resentment inside you. But you do need to communicate with your husband. I sense that you are suspicious that his CDing is developing into something you are not comfortable with. Talk to him. When we find ourselves doing things for one another because we know it brings joy to our partner, it becomes a joy for us as well. Good luck to the two of you :hugs:.

[ubokvt]

Are you talking about being present when he dresses, or a dressing experience like shopping, or are you talking about a sexual dressing thing. Its two different things all togather. But bottom line I agree with holly when you force either partner to participate in something they don't agree with it only hurts the relationship in the long term.

[Emily Ann Brown]

Well, I'm a mix of TG/CD but I'll answer anyhow.

I will repeat again what I had posted earlier.....if my "wife" would have not assumed any article of clothing she found (that was not hers) was another woman's, and had not asked for details when I said I was going out I would have never mentioned anything about my dressing or asked her participation. I knew how she felt and would have done it away from home out of her sight (motel rooms are cheap) unless she was safely gone for the night. Wives should not HAVE to participate if it is not their thing.

Now what I would have liked from her is another story. I would have loved to have had her to cuddle with once a week. My fem side really wants to be touched in a non sexual way on a regular basis (but I can survive without it). And I would have loved to feel "normal" with normal weekly interactions...it's just very hard to find a sister to interact with that doesn't want it to become too much. All that said, I would have settled for once a month gladly if that was all she was offering.

Emily Ann

[Bethanygirl]

Ok so here is the question. How often should a spouse or girlfriend have to participate to keep their CD happy? How often should our CD's be the man in our lives? The flip side of the coin is just as important don't you think?

A spouse or girlfreind should NEVER have to participate. You need to want to, and perhaps that is the problem here, you don't really want to do you? He knows this, at least emotionally, and that is why he is finding his dressing time around you so unfullfilling that he is pressuring you. If this is true, (I may be way off base here) then you have to ask yourself, WILL you ever really want to? The acceptence he is seeking through your 'participation' is an emotional craving he cannot fullfill without you actually approving of him while dressed. You need to look at it carefully and see if there isn't some part of it you can honestly appreciate, and cultivate that in yourself, and learn to show it to him. He needs to understand what you are trying to do, and BACK OFF, and be supportive of you. Any schedules or limits you mutally agree to observe will then be less constrictive to his need, as he will be finding the fullfillment that comes from the appreciation and approval of the one person in the world he cares most for. An Honest effort in this requires open lines of communication, emotions are strong, feelings mixed, but love can get you through.
I hope you can both find the joy and love that is surely waiting for you free of strife and upset. Good luck!
:love:

[JulieCDorlando]

Hello,
I was involved with a woman a while ago, that introduced me to this lifestyle. At first I was a bit apprehensive about doing this at first, as I saw it as a threat to my masculinity. We both agreed for certain times for this activity. From what you mentioned in your post for allotted time to be with him in is CDing is reasonable from my perspective. Only you and your husband can determine what is fair and what is reasonable. If you say once a month is enough for you, then it should be so. From your post you mentioned that he indulges in CDing with free reign when you are not at home with your knowledge of such. To me and by you conveying your thoughts his CD activities are more than suitable for you and your husband. You are ok with it once a month and he gets free reign to indulge when you are not home, and still wants more? WOW..... Limits on anything between two married people should be an acceptable postion in any marriage where two people are loving, caring, giving to each other. A marriage is love, but a special kind of love requiring sacrifice on both ends.
A CD may desire more intimacy with an accepting partner, but also can be happy indulging this activity by themselves. Not fully knowing the details, I would think he is pressing for more from you, than you are willing to give. If a spouse gives more and gets little in return resentment may start a rift. I do hope he knows and understands your concerns and needs. If not please sit him down and have a nice talk with him over this. You have already given to him , it is now time that he gives back to you. :2c:

[kittypw GG]

We sort of developed the CD'ing together. I really got into it blindly. I guess that I thought that it was a fetish thing and I was really ok with the role playing etc. As time went on it overran my life. I found that everything we did was centered around the cd'ing. He had more makeup than me, more clothes than me more bras etc. I started to feel really uncomfortable about it and conveyed my feelings very clearly. I tried to get him interested in romance as man and women. I bought a book called 101 nights of great romance. It had secret assignments for romantic nights with lots of suggestons. Trouble is I would always go first and he would have excuses about why he couldn't carry out his part. I bought an instructional dvd on errotic massage and surprised him one afternoon, I have brought him home sexy girly nighties and surprised him with his wildest fantasy. And I did this of my own free will because I love him. I have bent over backwards in my opinion, to fullfill his cd wishes. He has done some things that are romantic but clearly not even close to once a month which is what I have agreed to.

I do feel like I'm being forced and I have told him that if he would just be ok with the once a month thing then maybe I would feel like surprising him more often. I have said before that it takes more effort for me to get into the crossdressing because it is really his thing. I do enjoy it once I get into it but I have to work at it. I don't know if that makes sense. He thinks that if I just give him more crossdressing then he will be happier and will do more of what I want. We go round and round about it. He used to call me the crossdressers dream girl. It didn't seem to get me anything but more crossdressing.

I don't think that I am being unreasonable. I understand that I used to give more than I do now but I am tired of going first.

He thinks that I am being mean and controlling. I think I am being reasonable and giving. I want a life too for pete sake.

Help!!!!!! I don't know what to do.

He is a member here too so I hope something that you all will say will help. Thanks
Kitty

[Tiffy]

Have you ever asked your SO this question? "Honey, what would be your ideal situation as far as our life and crossdressing are concerned? How often? Would you leave the house? Where would you go and what things would you do dressed? What level would you like me to participate at? What would be enough participation on my part for you?" Then let him answer with out interference.

Then your SO should ask you the same thing and let you answer without interference. My wife found it best to leave letters on the kitchen table and we answered them when we were alone. And left them for the other. That way you can refer back to it when you sit and talk after you have written each other atleast once.

The two answers will be different but atleast they would be on paper and in the open. Then you can being to barter toward a common goal.

We pray for you......Tiffy

[Cyndie]

It sounds as though you are feeling that you are being pushed in a directon that you are not sure you want to go. Most people when pushed will make the natural response and become somewhat defensive. You should not have to be a part of CDing if you do not feel comfortable with it. When someone ask us to walk beside them into a different area of there life, we walk at an agreed pace. We don't push, we don't pull, we walk together. I don't know an answer but I hope that the two of you can find a way to walk rogether in the romantic, Cd, and other intimate parts of you life.

Cyndie

[Sophia Rearen]

What do you consider once a month? Is that an evening, a day, a few hours?

How about this? What if it were a cd fest? Like a weekend long lifestyle thing, where he wasn't allowed anything but to be enfemme. Kind of just blow it all out. You could time it out so it doesn't interupt your sex life, kind of on your schedule, if you know what I mean. And then, let him have his fictionmania.

You still are a crossdressers dream girl. Hell, with all that effort, your any mans dream girl!

[MsJanessa]

I'm not sure what you mean by "participate". If it means just having you around to hang out with well what ever you feel is your limit. If you mean sexually participate and you think that you are only up for that once a month then that's really your choice. I suspect that you are like many wives of cds---you are willing to tolerate it, even go along with in once in a while because your husband likes it, but are not really into it yourself as a full time diet. It could be that you might have found it enjoyable at first because it may have spiced your husband up when it came to sex but now youre tired of it--a common problem if one is to judge by the GG postings on this forum---really the choice is yours----whatever you feel is your limit----but beware that if he doesn't feel it is enough it could lead to serious problems in your relationship. Its a tough compromise for both of you. Good luck

[Emily Ann Brown]

Kitty,

I agree with Sophie....you are a dressers dream come true. You allow it and join in on a regular basis. Don't bash yourself hun.

I have many times said dressers are some of the most selfish people. Living with someone is a compromise at best. We tend to want it always our way.

The suggestion to ask what he would want as far as amount of time CDing if he had his way is a good idea in my opinion. Find out how far he wants to really go....you probably won't like it, but at least BOTH of you will then know how big the obstacle you are facing really is.


Emily Ann

[Karren H]

Kitty,

I agree with Sophie....you are a dressers dream come true. You allow it and join in on a regular basis. Don't bash yourself hun.

I have many times said dressers are some of the most selfish people. Living with someone is a compromise at best. We tend to want it always our way.

The suggestion to ask what he would want as far as amount of time CDing if he had his way is a good idea in my opinion. Find out how far he wants to really go....you probably won't like it, but at least BOTH of you will then know how big the obstacle you are facing really is.


Emily Ann

Well sweet Emily Ann......It's not my dream and never was and will be!! I enjoy my enfemme time solo........ freedom in a sort of wierd way!! And to have another person help decide what I have to wear and where should we go and how my makeup should look would take some of the fun (a lot!!) and most of the freedom away....in my humble opinion!!

Love Karren

[Emily Ann Brown]

DEAR SWEET KARREN KARREN KARREN......


Mom left you alone way too much in the playpen. (giggle giggle).

I would get tired of someone picking all my clothes, and doing my makeup and such too (was why you know I left Mom's house). But I love having a woman there to spend time with and take me shopping occassionally.


Emily Ann

[kittypw GG]

By participate I mean he wants me to pick something for him to wear, (he has been taking his own initiative on this lately) do his makeup and hair. Hang out, take pics and yes have sex. I try to make him feel pretty and engage in conversation, touching and telling him things that I know will make him feel like a girl. He would love for me to paint his nails and I used to but this just takes too much time so he will have it done before I get home for the "date". The date takes several hours. Usually when we have boy girl time it is when I don't even have my hair combed :eek: I want him to take me out, talk to me, touch me and then be all over me when we get home. Or if we stay in I want to listen to music, play a game talk and touch. I would at least like to have a little makeup on. Sometimes I feel that he doesn't want me to be the pretty one or the one getting the attention. I would like it a little more 50/50.

I have taken him out shopping. Even went in the dressing room with him at the good will to try on dresses. I have taken "her" out ot a couple of clubs and to a halloween party and to a regular resturant with others from tri-ess. We have even been nurturing a relationship with another couple who is very much like us. I am thankful to find some friends who we can relate to and who know albout and are trying to make cd'in work in their marriage.

It sort of hurts my feelings that he would be angry at me for saying that I could only play along once a month. Seems to me that a lot of women just plain don't even want to hear about it or leave their husbands because they can't deal with it. It's not like he can't play dress up when I am not home. I just don't want to hear about it. I have my interests also. I don't go on and on to him about how I love antique table clothes.

I think that he should not look a gift horse in the mouth and that he should be grateful that I do what I do. His pressuring me only makes me feel like I don't want to participate. At least I know that at the end of the month I will play dress up and I have time to plan the eve. and get into the mind set. What is wrong with that.??? It is so very frustrating to say the least.
Kitty

[Sweet Jane]

Hi

I'm with Karren on this one..I don't think I'll ever want "participation" from my wife. It's something that has been just me for so long, I'd probably not feel right having someone else involved...I'd feel a bit insecure I think, a bit embarrassed maybe.

[stlmichelle]

As far as my wife goes, any participation that she does is a bonus. We do have an agreement, that I will never go out without her. But beyond that I never expect her to participate in anything, that has to do with my dressing.

[JoAnnDallas]

I see it like any other activity that I do. I belong to other organizations and clubs in which she does not participate in the meetings or general outings, but when these have a special gathering like a Christmas party or State/Regional conference, then my wife will go with me. I would not expect any more than that even with my CDing. I do the same with her organizations and clubs.

[Megan G]

Kitty,

I am no expert but from what I see you are not asking for much, infact you are just asking for what any loving wife deserves. As a CD with a loving and suportive wife I can tell you that I will always want an active sex life (man & wife) and would want nothing less.

As for the participation, I think what you are offering is any CD's dream come true (at least in my eye's it is).

Trisha

[SatinSarah]

I think you said it all - why look a gift horse in the mouth.

I started taking my wife for granted in her support for my dressing and I tried to do it whenever it suited me and to do more and more as she supported me. When it went too far for her and I was girly for a couple of days on a mini break together I htink she thought she was going to lose her man so she stopped me completely. Only then did I wake up to the enormous effort she was making to help me.

No wife HAS to help. I would like to think that most would because they love the man they married and part of that man is a woman trying to enjoy herself.

Since my wife agreed to let Sarah back in we have negotiated every step. I don't want to hurt her again as I love her so I have told her what I would really like and she has told me what she can take. At the moment its me waeing lingerie and nightwear whilst in bed together. She knows I would like a bit more but I have agreed to do it all at her pace. Like you she says I can do what I like when alone and wonders why she has to be part of it at all.

I hope your husband understands how much you are doing for him. Only when I grew up to realise that has our understanding and love grown. I wish I could dress more often but I can relax knowing we are on this journey together again and not worry. For me that is better than dressing in secret or wanting to dress and notbeing able to talk about it. Even when out shopping for my wife we share thoughts on clothes and even if I don't get anyhting nw or dress it really helps me sharing the girly talk.

You are a wonderful wife to play your part - he shouldn't look this gift horse inthe mouth and you should live out the agreed lines you have set!

[melissaK]

Well really that is hard to answer. Each person is different and we do not come with an owners manual ( i wish we did). . . .
So I think that each home has to just find a balance that works for them. I am not saying that is easy or even possible in some cases. I know this has not been much help.


Thanks for the topic. It was interesting to hear everyone chime in. I've lived with the ebb and flow of CD issues for 40 plus years, 20 plus with two different wifes, and I can't add much. IMHO, stick w/ Tiffy's advice - talk to your SO and find the path that works for you now. Keep communicating and adjust to the ebbs and flows.

[kerrianna]

Hi Kitty, I think you've had some really solid thougtful responses here, and what would probably help the best is for HUBBY TO READ THEM!

Being two growing changing individuals sharing a life together always requires compromise, communication and respect. Sometimes things swing out of balance, one person changes while the other one is stuck, etc. It can be hard work and sacrifice to make it last. Sometimes we can't get what we want (or think we want) - and guys are generally more spoiled (IMHO) that women, so we tend to get a bit bratty about it. Sometimes I need a reality check.

For instance, I was telling my SO the other day how great it would be to have a few more women in bed with us. "Gee, honey I don't think so!" :spank: Oh, how unreasonable of her!

If your husband is truly transgendered then I can see how this would be a major problem for him. However, there are a lot of us here that aren't, and yet we pull that card out when trying to get our SO to 'give' or participate more. That's just being manipulative.

It sounds to me like you are supportive and know your boundaries and are willing to negotiate, but he's pushing the boundaries wanting more and isn't doing enough on his end. Really, sounds to me like the ball is in his court. Hope he realizes it before he messes everything up :slap:

[Karren H]

DEAR SWEET KARREN KARREN KARREN......


Mom left you alone way too much in the playpen. (giggle giggle).

Emily Ann

Funny you should mention that but your correct!! And our long hair Collie was always there next to the playpen (hence the attraction to long hair me thinks) and while I used to cough up fir balls from eating dog hair often, I think the platpen was parked very near Mom's lingerie drawer!! :)

I still don't consider crossdressing as a team sport, be it a team of 2 or more... So I have my things I like to do and my wife has her's. I would no more tell her what things to wear that day as go with her shopping and select her clothes for her.....

"No dear, try the mens jeans!! They are sooo much more comfortable than those tight fitting womens jeans and much more attractive on you!! Lilly told me that!!".

Hehehe

Love Karren

[suzy]

I agree with Holly and others.....

Neither of you should "have" do do anything that you don't want to do or enjoy! period.....end of statement.

In my personal relationship, my wife and I communicate openly. She has said also that she doesn't want my crossdressing to consume my life. Guess what? I don't either.

We have mutually agreed on about a 50% / 50% average. Sometimes, when I am in the mood, I dress more and other times less but it all works out to about 50% of the time and that seems to work for me as well!

Good luck and keep the communication open. I think that you are on the right track!:love:

[JulieCDorlando]

By participate I mean he wants me to pick something for him to wear, (he has been taking his own initiative on this lately) do his makeup and hair. Hang out, take pics and yes have sex. I try to make him feel pretty and engage in conversation, touching and telling him things that I know will make him feel like a girl. He would love for me to paint his nails and I used to but this just takes too much time so he will have it done before I get home for the "date". The date takes several hours. Usually when we have boy girl time it is when I don't even have my hair combed :eek: I want him to take me out, talk to me, touch me and then be all over me when we get home. Or if we stay in I want to listen to music, play a game talk and touch. I would at least like to have a little makeup on. Sometimes I feel that he doesn't want me to be the pretty one or the one getting the attention. I would like it a little more 50/50.

I have taken him out shopping. Even went in the dressing room with him at the good will to try on dresses. I have taken "her" out ot a couple of clubs and to a halloween party and to a regular resturant with others from tri-ess. We have even been nurturing a relationship with another couple who is very much like us. I am thankful to find some friends who we can relate to and who know albout and are trying to make cd'in work in their marriage.

It sort of hurts my feelings that he would be angry at me for saying that I could only play along once a month. Seems to me that a lot of women just plain don't even want to hear about it or leave their husbands because they can't deal with it. It's not like he can't play dress up when I am not home. I just don't want to hear about it. I have my interests also. I don't go on and on to him about how I love antique table clothes.

I think that he should not look a gift horse in the mouth and that he should be grateful that I do what I do. His pressuring me only makes me feel like I don't want to participate. At least I know that at the end of the month I will play dress up and I have time to plan the eve. and get into the mind set. What is wrong with that.??? It is so very frustrating to say the least.
Kitty

Hello Kitty,
Reading your post is breaking my heart. From what I have read on this forum and others, about other women dealing with a CD husband, it seems universal that the CD is taking all and giving little if anything in return. Such selfishness from someone that professes love for a wife in incomprehensable. He does have more than enough of his time to "play", and he should give you your time to play meaning intamacy between you both, time alone together, socializing outside the home (dating)as husband and wife etc. As your husband he needs to meet your needs and requests,which means no CDing without you approving of it. I do agree that your husband should be greatful for ALL that you have done for him. I read a book some time ago where a quote from Confucious said "a fish doesn't appreciate the water until that fish is out of the water". The fish in your case is your husband, the water is you.
From all indications cracks are formming in the foundation of your realtionship with him. If he ever reads this I hope I can appeal to his sences. I beg of him to stop and contemplate what he is doing, and to do the right thing for the sake of your wife, and for yours as well. Think about your wife first and foremost in anything and everything. Stop the selfishness of your actions. He needs to realize who and what he has. He is BLESSED. He has it so much better than a lot of CD's. Seek forgiveness from your wife, and work more diligently to give back to her all the happiness that she has given you. Please stop being the greedy, selfish, person you have become. Love your wife, give to her, show her, be hers as a husband. She isnt asking for to much. Please. :2c:

[Robin 36]

I have read all the resposes so far. All seem supportive. I think what may not be clear to you Kitty, is just how strong his need to do this is. That said, the only level of participation that will really satisfy him is your complete acceptance of him as a woman. As you said though, you deserve a life too. A life with the man you married. You are right to be alarmed at where he appears to be going. He is wrong to be so selfish. Unforunately in marriges right and wrong are actually meaningless. Tread carefully, but do set boundries.

I have a suggestion for getting to see more of your man. Engage in activies with him that are masculine in nature. Go to a sports event, go hunting or hiking or boating. Burn something, build something. Sex, suprisingly, would not be a masculine activity for him at this time. But if you help him rediscover his male self it will be again someday. Remember this is a strong pull on him -- like a drug really.

[Cheryl T]

A spouse or girlfreind should NEVER have to participate

An S/O should only HAVE to participate.... when she feels she wants to.

Play on words, I know... but you get the meaning.

[kittypw GG]

Thanks to all of you who responded. I was hoping that some of his peers would give him something to think about. I hope he doesn't see it as me getting it my way again. I do think that he has a certain selfishness. I have gone to lengths to try and make him happy but he doesn't always see it that way. Hence my frustration. He has come a long ways from the begining but I think that he has a long ways to go.

I feel that it is important to have a good foundation on which to build any kind of relationship be it friendship or marriage. I think that we are lacking that. I have been trying to tell him that once a month for the cd'ing will give us that time to build that. I don't know what to make of his anger over his perceived lack of crossdressing. He says that he is just a garden variety CD but I don't get why he can't be satified with the arrangement while we work on things. I told him that either he is incapable or he plain just doesn't want to. If this is the case then why should I knock myself out if he feels that it just isn't worth it? Why not be satified with what you have then anything above that is a bonus?

I hope that he takes your comments on the cuff and doesn't get angry at me but I am desparate to get a solution or the alternative will be going our separate ways. This is such a hard spot to be in you know? It is so sad really. Thanks again
Kitty

[tall_brianna]

got nothin for ya except respect on this one Kitty.

:hugs: -b

[klyde]

I don't think it's ever required but I think to be what dan savage calls GGG Game, Giving and a Good Sport you should try it at least three times. If you can't get into it you should tell your SO that. And your SO should accept that.

[krisinpink]

Kitty, I want very much to reach out to you and say that not only are you not being unselfish, you are actively seeking a CD living arrangement that would please both of you. No man, CD or not, could ever ask anything more from his partner than that. You are above and beyond the call here, and it's great, and I think I understand why --what a great girl. I know it's scary, and the conversations at times won't be easy, (maybe he's more than CD...maybe not?? this is a matter that will need to be addressed at some time I think) but they must be done (delicately but honestly). I'm long ago divorced and no small part of that was my CDing, my inability to reign it in to a resonable level, and our joint inability to talk things through.

Having said that, I would like to add a comment for your hubby: You are not evil, or wrong to seek her participation, I know I LOVE it when my GG joins me, BUT...as many of our T* girl friends have pointed out here... that sweet GG of yours (the one who is working very hard to find a mutual solution for you both, and who is clearly one who loves you) has personal desires and wishes of joint non-CD intimacy that she craves to share with you just as much as you and I and many of the others in this forum crave dressing. I don't read her position as asking you to stop, only asking you to share some non-CD living with her in ways that she desires. A marriage is a share and share alike thing, it just has to be. I know how much we want to dress, and dress and play and play, but we have to give attention and affection to our SOs in the ways that they would like just as much. We can't argue that their wishing this is unreasonable --it just isn't.

For you both, please proceed openly, with the knowledge that love is an underlying element in your relationship, talk with one another, verbally, or using the letter-writing idea from an earlier posting (I loved that idea) -just be sure to be open with, but not hurtful or accusatory of one another. Maybe once a month is not where the compromise lies...maybe its four times a month as long as there were six or eight non-CD intimate massages, and/or dinner dates first. You guys get to choose the plan, just talk, and hug, and cry, and describe dreams, and remind each other how you come to be together in the first place.

All my very best wishes are with you both...

Jacqui

[sara_also]

Kitty,
I believe that Krisinpink said something profound in his last paragraph. I believe there is nothing that love will not overcome. I do hope that both of you will find a balance point that will enable you to find happiness.
My answer to your question is: An SO should only partisapate if, and when they desire to do so. IE: Hunting, Fishing, Cooking, Golf, Football, Cd'ing, Etc.
We all have our worlds and we must live in them. I hope things will improve for you both.....Hugs
Sara

[Kimberley]

I know I dont really qualify because of being TG/Ts but I still believe that everyone's feelings have to be respected. You say this took on a life of its own and that may be well and fine, but I do believe some moderation is needed and your CD needs to respect both your marriage and relationship at all levels. Unfortunately marriage is not pick and choose, but it definitely is respect for one another.

So how much is too much or too little? It is what both of you can live with...comfortably!!

Let us know how this turns out? (Of course you will.) It has been a long road for you but going back, it appears as though gains have been made. We are all still pulling for you.

:hugs: to both of you
Kimberley

[Lindsay]

Kitty, this might sound weird but I've got a similar example that's got nothing to do with CDing.

My SO works in an office all week, gets up very early, spends all day surrounded by people, gets home late and tired. When she gets home all she wants to do is put her feet up and relax.

I work from home all week and get cabin fever. By the end of the day all I want to do is to go out and have some beers. I'm not being funny here - after eight, ten hours staring at the same four walls I get really antsy and really, really need a change of scene for the sake of my sanity.

Going out for beers isn't something my SO is a big fan of - she enjoys it occasionally but she doesn't want it to consume her life. She'll come out with me once a week, sometimes when she really doesn't want to, but that's about it: another night I'll go out with friends, and occasionally she'll suggest that I go myself while she stays in. She really doesn't fancy going out but she knows I'm going stir crazy stuck in the house, and she'd rather I went out by myself than stayed home being grumpy.

For me, it's not ideal: going out solo, or even with friends, isn't as much fun as going out with my SO. If it were up to me, we'd go out together every night; if it were up to my SO, we wouldn't go out at all. So we compromise, because that's what you do when you love each other.

[Kate Simmons]

I really do admire your committment to the relationship Kitty. You are a very exceptional woman. Any reasonable man would be proud to be your SO. I say that from my heart.:happy: Ericka Kay

[Wendy me]

wow i want it all and i want it yesterday.... you know total acceptance and for my wife to get to know Wendy ... fact is she knows but is not totally supportive .... what i would like to see is time spent and not forced in her face time but even that once a month would be way cool ... when it comes down to it her comfort is more important i do think we all want more it's just what people do but we need to look at things from both sides and make sure that our so's feelings and wishes are not being stepped on ....

[Penny Lane]

Hi Kitty

I think I can understand something of the way you feel. I blew my wifes small amount of acceptance by not keeping to my part of the bargain. Now I'm trying to never dress again because when push comes to shove, I love her more than I love being dressed. You should not feel you have to do anything you do not feel comfortable with, or crosses your "acceptance" barrier.

Looking back I know I felt the constant need to be the girlier one in our relationship and that my wife never did enough for me, only now do I realise just how far against her own desires she went in order to make me happy. Whilst never being a great partiicipant in my desires, she turned a blind eye to my dressing sessions when she couldn't cope, bought clothes that would suit us both enabled me to go out en-femme in drab etc. etc. We are a selfish group of individuals who are usually dealing with something in our lives that we do not understand, often makes us feel guilty but love doing.

Others have referred to this need as our hobby, we would not expect our partners to participate in stamp collecting or car maintenance etc if the really disliked it, nor should we expect you to go beyond what you feel comfortable with in an activity that a large chunck of society thinks (whether we like it or not) is weird to say the least.

Your partner already has a good deal from you, a deal that a lot, not all, of other cd'rs would love from their own partner, it seems that if he is not careful then he will, like me, have lost what he had. Perhaps he needs to read these posts just to work out what you feel and to get a little reality check. You should be more important to him than clothes if he really does love you and you too have your needs and expectations which he should as your partner take into account.

You are indeed a very special lady, and what you want is nothing more than to feel loved and cherished, not just a dressing room attendant. I hope you both can work this out, and that your partnership can grow onto a more equal footing, good luck to you both.

Penny :love:

[kittypw GG]

I really do admire your committment to the relationship Kitty. You are a very exceptional woman. Any reasonable man would be proud to be your SO. I say that from my heart.:happy: Ericka Kay

Awe, thanks Ericka, you are a sweet as you can be. :love: Kitty

[Kahlan51]

Hi Kitty: I love the letters idea. I have been selfish in my relationship with my
wife and didn't realize how much it was affecting her. I woke up and it is time your SO did the same. Maybe the problem is a little deeper than just the CDing and some 3rd party intervention might help. I value my relationship more than dressing up. I hope it works out for you from your posts you seem to be a supportive loving partner in your relationship. Tell him how you feel and realize that male anger is often a manipulitive technique Oh Oh that must be my " Dr Phil " gene talking. I wish you the very best you deserve to be loved and respected. Love Kahlan

[rosiegurl]

well, as others here have said, should never HAVE to do anything *chuckles*

I know a lot of others here may disagree with this, but I think a couple of times a month are perfectly fine, or maybe as one said, a long weekend.

BUT, it should be reciprocated in some fashion, you give him this time to do his thing, and he should at least give you equal time to do your thing.

romantic night out as boy and girl, massages etc... just everyday couple stuff.

it should never be completly centered around the CDing as it will and does take over all too easily

give him a kick, let him know how much trouble you go to, to make him feel girly and special, and let him know you would like some of the same, thank you very much *grins*

[Michelia]

I agree with Kerianna.

It sounds like you are an awesome woman and he might not be appreciating or able to appreciate what he has.

What you describe has happened to you is my worst nightmare. That I may carry this thing so far that my SO would eventually reject it after being so involved. I have tried to be as careful as possible. May this serve as a lesson to all of us and we should take heed.

Fortunately, I have been having the opposite problem lately. I have been too busy for Michelia and have been trying to be more guy for muy GG. Now she is clamoring for the girl to come back! I think Michelia has given a her a sense of power and control she never experienced before but that is quite up her alley, she just did not know it. She also says I am a totally different more sensitive and expressive lover when enfemme. She says I am gentler and take everything so much slower. Weird thing is I do not program or plan this. It just happens. But I do not feel femme all the time, especially if I do not have the time or ability to relax and enjoy.

Karren is totally right about the control one loses. I do not mind this because we are very close and enjoy the same things. I had a marriage before where I had total control of everything, so this is a nice change. But for other people, I could see it being a problem.

[kittypw GG]

You see Michelia, you make a very good point. I think that if he were to stop completley I would really miss it after a while. I just really feel that he pushes and pushes and pushes me away. After I had just gotten back into engaging in the crossdressing and we had a great eve and then he right away brings up other things he wants to try. He just plain can't be happy taking it step by step. When he does this I just wish I never would have opened that door again. He thinks that I am being mean but how in the world do I get him to see that this is his thing????? I do it because I love him. When I dont' see him making the same effort for me well it makes me more than a little unwilling to give him more of it:mad: I have made a commitment to participate once a month and I have honered that. He needs to do the same or maybe he can pick up with one of the many gg's who are lined up around the block just clamering to get a piece of an uncomprimising CD. :straightface:

[linnea]

How much to keep him happy? That would probably vary a great deal. The question that I think is important here is what can the two of you negotiate that will be mutually satisfactory. That will take communication and compromise, I would guess. It's definitely a two-way street.

[Robin Leigh]

Hi Kitty,

He craves the feminine energy that you share with him by participating in the CDing. So he should understand that your feminine energy wants (& needs) some masculine input on a regular basis.

One "date" en femme per date in male mode is more than generous, IMHO. Even one date en femme per four in guy mode would be a luxury most CDs can only dream about.

I've been in a relationship with a semi-accepting GG, where at one stage she was participating once a month. I survived. :)

As I said a while ago, tell him if he doesn't pull his socks up there are plenty of well-behaved CDs waiting to flirt with you. :D

:hugs:

Robin

[Dragster]

Kitty, you can tell your SO that he doesn't know when he's well off. As far as I remember, you'll participate with him once a month, but then he's free to do his own thing when you're out, as long as it doesn't interfere with your relationship (sexual or otherwise). I'd give my right arm (not my right leg, that's for wearing heels!) to be in that situation with my wife, and it would ensure that I could keep a balance between CDing and the rest of my life. Who knows, if he respected your conditions for a while, and made sure you enjoyed it too, he might get an extra night from time to time! I hope you've been ensuring that he's reading all these posts!

Btw, where's this queue of GGs lined up round the block clamouring to get a piece of CD action??? Not round my way, that's for sure!

Tony

[kittypw GG]

Thanks everyone, you all make me proud to be a part of this forum. I expected to get honest and helpful answers and that is what I got. It really has changed my life having all of you to talk to. The one thing that is so hard in a relationship is getting to a balance where you are sharing a life but still remain an individual. I hope all of your comments will be taken to heart by my hubby. I have told him about this thread but I do not know if he has read the posts. He as yet has said nothing. I am so tired of conflict and want a life that is comfortable and I want a partner that respects and loves me the way that I love them. This is what we all deserve. Thanks everyone. :love:
Hope you all have a Merry Christmas. I will keep you posted on how things go. :hugs: Kitty

[Beckii_aCDInOz]

Dear kittypw,

There has been some fantastic responses. A lot of insight as you know is found within the walls of this cyber community. Yes I can feel the love :bighug:

I wasn't going to add my :2c: but I think a big issue has been left out here & I wanted to add my thoughts, I hope that's ok.


How often should a spouse or girlfriend have to participate to keep their CD happy? How often should our CD's be the man in our lives? The flip side of the coin is just as important don't you think?

Firstly you don't have to do anything you don't want or feel comfortable doing.

I see that you care very deeply about your husband or you wouldn't be here, which in that regard you deserve to give yourself a pat on the back.

When feelings of the heart are concerned; when one is deeply committed to another, it can be a roller coaster ride to the extreme, especially when it involves a SO GG and her CD'ing SO. I'm sure you've hear the expression 'we hurt the ones we love most'.

I get the feeling that there is a strong underlaying current of guilt within your posts. Please forgive me if I'm got the wrong impression, but, reading your post, especially your last post...


I want a partner that respects and loves me the way that I love them.

I get the feeling that you equate your SO's CD'ing to him not loving you or respecting you; does this not make you feel like his wife?

I'm trying to be as tactful as possible kittypw, however, the feeling I get thru your posts is your still very much angry towards your husbands CD'ing +?

I don't know how you two interact with each other at home, but, if your feeling this way, then I'm sure he's picked up on it. If that's the case then I doubt he's going to comply to looking at this forum.

It's seems to me that you like to have thing structured, and that's cool, that's you.

I can only speak for myself, but my CD'ing is anything but structured. Sometimes I don't feel the need to dress for months. Other times I'm full on for a couple of weeks and can't get the thoughts & feelings out of my head.

Let me reiterate, I can tell you love and care for your SO, I just think if you can manage to lighten up a bit and not be so black & white towards your demands then maybe he will realise your not angry at him personally.

Again communication regardless of a CD'ing SO or not is paramount to a healthy, intimate relationship.

Dealing with, confronting and working thru these guilt trips and any other negative influences will make both of you a lot happier in my opinion.

Take care of you :rose2:



hugs

x

beckii

PS I tend to dress more & more often when I'm really stressed out or life in guy mode is not going smoothly. I'm thankful that I can step out of my guy mode into my fem mode, it's definately better than throwing 1/2 a bottle of scotch down my throat & a lot more personally rewarding too.

[marie354]

Being a CD myself, I understand what you are saying. My SO and I have discussed this too and I agree. I do dress a lot of the time that I'm home and she's OK with it, but I would never ask her to dress me or do my nails. I mean that that's a personal thing and I want my make-up done my way, my hair my way, etc. As far as being the man in her life... I always am. I don't dress for sex... I undress for it. I'm always on top and take the lead when in bed and as a man I think about sex a lot and try to keep her satisfied as well as I can. The door has to swing in both directions. If she feels unconfortable, she tells me. If she asks me to stop dressing for a while, a week, a month, whatever, I comply. It's only fair. I also take my part in our relationship seriously. I don't think twice about dusting, or vacuuming, or whatever else is necessary around the house. Of course my SO has MD, so some things are hard for her. I do most of the house cleaning. She does the cooking most of the time as well as the dishes and counters. I do the rest. Unless she is sick, of course, then I do it all. I thing that all aspects should be shared, whether it be taking out the garbage or putting on make-up. There will always be time to do what you want. Maybe not always when you want, but there's always a time that's right. What you ask of him is not unreasonable at all. He should respect your wishes as well. I'm getting too wordy - nuf-sed!

[Robyn_oz]

I know i want and need to be here to read how others are coping and accepting their CD partners.. but i am really have a huge problem trying to work out how to say something to a particular "post" that someone has typed... now im not blonde just dont use the computer a lot

[Dragster]

No problem Robyn, you just did it! Now all you have to remember is exactly what you did to type your last reply, then do it again, with different words of course! It's a whole new ball game when you've got some digital photos to post, but there's plenty of people here (me included) who can show you how to do that!

Welcome to the best forum on the planet!
Tony

[kittypw GG]

Dear kittypw,

I get the feeling that there is a strong underlaying current of guilt within your posts. Please forgive me if I'm got the wrong impression, but, reading your post, especially your last post...

I get the feeling that you equate your SO's CD'ing to him not loving you or respecting you; does this not make you feel like his wife?

I'm trying to be as tactful as possible kittypw, however, the feeling I get thru your posts is your still very much angry towards your husbands CD'ing +?


hugs

x

beckii

PS I tend to dress more & more often when I'm really stressed out or life in guy mode is not going smoothly. I'm thankful that I can step out of my guy mode into my fem mode, it's definately better than throwing 1/2 a bottle of scotch down my throat & a lot more personally rewarding too.

Thanks for your reply Beckii,
First let me say that I don't really feel guilt and I am not sure what it is exactly you are refering to. Maybe you could elaborate?

Secondly I do not have much anger towards my hubby's cding. I have a great deal of anger towards his lack of comprimise, and frankly his lack of participation in general in our marriage. He would say that he thinks that it should be a two way street but his actions prove otherwise. I don't equate his cding to his not loving me. Oh no no no. I equate the way he ignores me and gives me one word answers to my attempts at conversation and maybe because he can go for a week or more without even touching me. (I mean not even a touch on the shoulder or a pat on the head.:mad: ) I equate that with not loving me. It makes me angry that he forces me to crossdress just to get a loving touch or a kind word. He has told me that he would be so much happier if I would just participate. :mad: I said that I would be happier if he would stop using emotional blackmail and step up to the plate and build a foundation for our relationship. I need to know that he has my best interest at heart not his own. I need to know that he wants to please me as much as I want to please him. Our marriage is in serious trouble indirectly because of the crossdressing because he acts like the only important thing is for him to relieve HIS stress and I should just go along with it. Let me tell you this is not how I relieve stress. Quite frankly I dont' think he can see past what he wants to even know or care about how much stress I am under. He is out of work on a work injury which has perpetuated for a year and a half. Our income has been seriously comprimised and I am the main bread winner. I perform miracles each pay day in order to keep us afloat. I have never had so much debt in my life and let me tell you if anyone needs stress relief it is me.

I have bought him all of his womenly things and he does wear them when I am not home. He is just pitching a fit that I don't participate more than once a month. Quit frankly, with our current situation, I find his wineing about my participation kind of lame. I think that I am comprimising very nicely. At least I don't say forget it all together.

As far as being black and white about it???? I will forgive you on that one because you don't know me but if anyone is black and white it is my hubby.

He told me today that he has read the posts and will try things MY WAY.
Now this should make me happy right? Well some how it really doesn't make me feel good for him to say it like that. When will it ever be OUR way??? When will he ever feel like he has responsibility for developing a great love and friendship?? Sometimes I feel Like I am talking a foreign language. :sad:
Kitty

[marie354]

QUOTE ''It makes me angry that he forces me to crossdress just to get a loving touch or a kind word. He has told me that he would be so much happier if I would just participate. :mad: I said that I would be happier if he would stop using emotional blackmail and step up to the plate and build a foundation for our relationship.

I still a newbe here but I too think he's being unfair to you. My SO allows me to dress anytime I want but I don't leave the house that way. As I stated earlier in a previuos post... He should let the door swing your way too. After all a good relationship is a balance.
After I wrote my previous post to you I asked my SO if she minded my dressing every day like I have been doing for a few weeks now and she looked at me and smiled nicely and said ''Whatever blows your skirt up'' and then we had a very passionate kiss and a hug. -- I guess I'm very lucky for having such an understanding girlfriend. Maybe the two of you just need to sit down and have a hard discussion to balance the scales a bit more. Maybe tell him you'll leave if he doesn't change at least a little toward your needs.
I talk too much - Thanks for listening to someone that CD's too.

[Raychel]

Remember you asked!

In my opinion your husband is damn lucky to be able to dress with you around at all. There are alot of us that have lost wives or have had serious troubles in our relationships because of CDing. My wife knows of my CDing and would rather not see me dressed. She does accept it, and I can wear ladies underwear to bed. BUT never if we are to be intimate. I must be all man for her then. I totally respect her wishes, and am greatful that she is as accepting as she is.

SO as in any relationship there is some give and take. My wife does go shopping with me sometimes, and we really do enjoy those quality times together. She does accept that it is a part of me and does not try to force me to quit altogether. And I never try overstep her limits. I respect that she married a man and wishes to keep it that way. When I have troubles, she is there to support me, And when she has troubles I do the best that any "Guy" can do to support her.

So you are a very special lady for accepting what you have and letting your husband be the person that he really is. And your husbad should respect your wishes and try to meet your limitations. Afterall you always have "Plan B" = Walking out the door

Best Wishes
Raychel

[Robin Leigh]

He told me today that he has read the posts and will try things MY WAY.
Now this should make me happy right? Well some how it really doesn't make me feel good for him to say it like that. When will it ever be OUR way??? When will he ever feel like he has responsibility for developing a great love and friendship?? Sometimes I feel Like I am talking a foreign language. :sad:
Kitty

Well at least it's a start, I guess. It must be hard on you Kitty, trying to share your love with someone who sounds like they don't really know how to share. Your last post brought tears to my eyes. :hugs: I hope he begins to realize what a wonderful woman you are & starts learning how to share properly.


Maybe the two of you just need to sit down and have a hard discussion to balance the scales a bit more. Maybe tell him you'll leave if he doesn't change at least a little toward your needs.

As Kitty has mentioned in previous posts (& threads), he isn't very good at communicating. She'd love to talk more about their relationship, but he doesn't want to. If she trys to talk about it, he just wants to talk about her participating in his CDing more. It seems like he doesn't want to reciprocate, and that's not fair. :mad:

To Kitty's SO: Get your act together, dude! You're giving the team a bad name. :) A shared world is much nicer than being in your own little bubble. If you want her to be comfortable in your space, she needs you to give her time in her space. Is that too hard?

:hugs:

Robin

[Glenda]

On this forum, we tend to contribute everything to our desire to dress. The truth is that many of the issues we deal with are issues that the rest of the population has to deal with as well. One of these is a spouse or SO who does not contribute as much to a relationship as the other. If we are in a relationship we should have the same desire to nuture the other. Many men, as well as some women, lose the desire to nuture the relationship. This may be caused by a loss of passion, familiarity, stress, selfishness, bitterness, anger, fear, jealousy or any of a hundred or more other reasons. In my opinion, he is likely not showing the same amount of love and participation in the relationship as he did previously. This is not merely a cross dressing issue.

I suspect that if he was fulfilling your emotional needs on an everyday basis that there would be not talk of "once a month" participation. Your relationship is not the same as most of the other members of this forum whose SO's either don't or at best begrudingly particpate in their SO's desire to dress. You have proven to be open and accepting. I would hope that he would want to begin showing his love and appreciation for what you are giving him.

On the other hand, the desire to dress can become obsessive. Some of us want to do it all of the time or at least as much as possible. This can result in our not wanting to participate in activities outside of our home to the detriment of living a full and rewarding life. If I were you, I would try to evaluate what you are receiving in your relationship with him to determine what the real cause of your dissatisfaction is. Is it the dressing or is it something deeper?

I suspect that if he truly puts your needs above his own that he would find you more willing to participate on a more frequent basis. Of course, you must put his needs above your own as well. A relationship is not a 50/50 thing. It is 100/100. Sort of footprints in the sand if you know what I mean.

I'm pretty sure things will get normal (or as normal as they get for us CD'ers) if you both begin putting the other's needs above your own. On a final note...tell him to be a (girly) man and start buying some of his own clothes and makeup.

[Ms. Donna]

Hi Kitty,

If you don't mind, I'll stick my half-TS gender-queer nose into this to give you my thoughts.

IMNSHO, you have been and continue to be taken advantage of by your husband - words I'm sure he's not keen on hearing. His actions are not those of a loving and caring partner.

You and I have discussed this at length in the past and there is nothing unreasonable about your position. Relationships require 100% participation from both parties in order to be successful and you are not getting that. That he reacts as he does would seem to indicate that there is much more going on here than 'garden variety' CDing (assuming here is such a thing at all.) Couple's therapy is a good idea here - provided that both parties are genuinely interested in it working. Half-hearted attempts will only serve to waste money with no ROI.

The bottom line here is really simple: your husband has a good thing going with respect to your participation and he is oblivious to that fact. That he expects more from you while giving less only serves to underscore this fact. I see no reason to reward bad behavior and under the circumstances, a commitment of once a month on your part is more than generous.

Your husband needs to open his eyes and see what he has. Until he can do that, there will be no forward movement.

My wife and I have been living with this for over 20 years - much more so for the last nine. As you know, mine is a different - more 'out' - situation. It's not been easy and it continues to present challenges but the one constant is that we both are committed to our relationship and continuing to make it work. That means give and take on not just her part, but on mine as well.

Love & Stuff,
Donna

[Beckii_aCDInOz]

Thanks for your reply Beckii,
First let me say that I don't really feel guilt and I am not sure what it is exactly you are refering to. Maybe you could elaborate?


Trying to grasp a situation or events, epsecially feelings in this medium is hard. Sorry I'm unable to give a definate example, though, I felt a slight under current of a lot of feelings in your first post, one was guilt. It wasn't so much what you were writing but what I read between the lines.

Sorry if that's about as clear as mud :doh:



Secondly I do not have much anger towards my hubby's cding. I have a great deal of anger towards his lack of comprimise, and frankly his lack of participation in general in our marriage. He would say that he thinks that it should be a two way street but his actions prove otherwise. I don't equate his cding to his not loving me. Oh no no no. I equate the way he ignores me and gives me one word answers to my attempts at conversation and maybe because he can go for a week or more without even touching me. (I mean not even a touch on the shoulder or a pat on the head.:mad: ) I equate that with not loving me. It makes me angry that he forces me to crossdress just to get a loving touch or a kind word. He has told me that he would be so much happier if I would just participate. :mad: I said that I would be happier if he would stop using emotional blackmail and step up to the plate and build a foundation for our relationship. I need to know that he has my best interest at heart not his own. I need to know that he wants to please me as much as I want to please him. Our marriage is in serious trouble indirectly because of the crossdressing because he acts like the only important thing is for him to relieve HIS stress and I should just go along with it. Let me tell you this is not how I relieve stress. Quite frankly I dont' think he can see past what he wants to even know or care about how much stress I am under. He is out of work on a work injury which has perpetuated for a year and a half. Our income has been seriously comprimised and I am the main bread winner. I perform miracles each pay day in order to keep us afloat. I have never had so much debt in my life and let me tell you if anyone needs stress relief it is me.

I have bought him all of his womenly things and he does wear them when I am not home. He is just pitching a fit that I don't participate more than once a month. Quit frankly, with our current situation, I find his wineing about my participation kind of lame. I think that I am comprimising very nicely. At least I don't say forget it all together.


I'm sorry if I offended you kitty, didn't mean to, but, on the flip least now you've really let your feeling shine thru, that btw in my opinion is good. It's good for you, it gives you a chance in an anonymous way to express how you really, honestly feel...

Again, from you original post it looks like I got my wires crossed, sorry. However, now I have a very clear picture of what is going on, thank you :)





As far as being black and white about it???? I will forgive you on that one because you don't know me but if anyone is black and white it is my hubby.


An obvious misconception I held, based on your first post.



He told me today that he has read the posts and will try things MY WAY.
Now this should make me happy right? Well some how it really doesn't make me feel good for him to say it like that. When will it ever be OUR way???


I wish I could give you an answer, but, I'd be telling lies if I did.

Your post is a bit of a paradox actually, as I told my SO a 5 weeks ago, hence the feelings, emotions and everything else are still vivid and raw.

I think the key is communication, but, as he doesn't seem to want to even do this, then my heart really does go out to you kitty.




When will he ever feel like he has responsibility for developing a great love and friendship?? Sometimes I feel Like I am talking a foreign language.

Let me shoot from the hip here & ask you a few questions kitty...

Hypothetically if your SO was giving you everything every thing that you've expressed above; attention; intimacy; sharing; the equality of your marriage, would his CD'ing be a BIG issue? Could you actually accept it?

Personally I think you could! After all you've been purchasing clothes and what not for him anyway, not a big issue there, was there?

Is it possible that the CD'ing is not the issue here, but, its been the catalyst that's brought all your fears, emotions and hurt to the surface?



hugs

:rose2:

beckii

[iwearpanties]

wow i read all the post and some 2 or more times ..my take is this if the hubby wants wife too be there and also play i feel he feels in his mind your the one makeing him dress too please you or makeing him be the girl you want him to be ?this is how the psot ive read felt too me .... im not trying too take any sides here beacuse i too am married and ive asked once or twice if my wife would play she has but i know you cant push it too much because for both parties there must and has too be a two wat street alwasy....

[Beckii_aCDInOz]

i feel he feels in his mind your the one makeing him dress too please you or makeing him be the girl you want him to be ?

My bottom lip is almost chewed thru, my SO advised me to zip it & keep my thoughts to myself, but me being me, I had to dig deeper into this, as it just didn't seem to gel.

Yes its captured my intrigue. Adding, knocking a good chunk of a BA in Psychology (many years ago) on the head, I still find subjects such as this interesting.

I should have taken your lead kitty and actually read all your post from the beginning. Still, now that I have spent a few hours doing so, I have a couple of opinions, one is based on the exact views of the quote above.

As side note, I'll try to refrain from intellectualising, too much. I'm surethis is going to cuts too close to the core. But, I’m just calling it based exactly on what I've read.

If I can transgress to your thread here:
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19811



I knew from the begining that my husband had an interest in wearing panties. I found it somewhat exciting. His feelings about crossdressing were not very developed. I think he only owned one skirt when we met (and not a very attractive one either) Over time we developed it together. I gave him his fem name and most of his clothes, actually I bought all of it. Wigs, makeup etc.



Over time the crossdressing just took over.



Reading the for mention thread, you describe the exhilaration, excitement that your SO's CD'ing brought into your life. From the beginning (not marriage but dating) you were privy to him not only wearing panties but also a dress too. But something within you wanted more.

His taste in female attire obviously wasn't good enough by your standards, you desired him to be more attractive, more fitting outwardly towards that of a female. Hence you made a conscious decision to transform him into the woman you thought he should be. Instead of respecting the female persona he was.

You even go so far as to boldly state that you picked his girl name too. Did he have any say in anything about his own fulfillment in his own female self! I don't know your motovations you've never expresed these from what I've read of your posts, hence just my opinions.

Maybe in the beginning it was done out of love, you simply wanted to help him look his best in a genuine caring, nuturing nature that most females are renowned for. However, somewhere along that track of your discovery it took a sharp turn, something you obviously didn't bargin for.

If I was to take this as a Psych case study, I'd label it forced feminization without a doubt.

My intrigue is fuelled further by what you really expected would happen by taking this course?

To me it's akin to knowing someone is a recreational drug user, feeding their habit with stronger substances, then wondering why they've turned into a junkie!

Did you not think that moulding someone into something you wanted would not hold any repercussions?

After reading each and every one of your posts, you seem content to blame him for all your mistakes pertaining to your need to have him CD'ing the way you saw acceptable.

I shudder to think how long this type of behavioural treatment has been active in your marriage. Least of all in your previous courtship.

It must really be starting to eat into your life & affecting you as a person. Too bad you didn't think about your SO as a person too, before venturing down your self indulgent, self gratifying path.

Instead of beating this guy up, you, yes you kitty, should be trying your dammdest to be making things right!

Instead of again pointing the finger at your SO (and belittling him) who quite frankly in my mind obviously thought the world of you; who else would allow themselves to be changed in such a way other than for the love of someone else.

What upsets me the most is that you've created this issue all by yourself & either your unwilling to accept responsibility for your own actions or your simply void of seeing the truth.

Yet, instead of realising your part in this and owning it, you instead play the blame game and make out like you hold no cards, it's out of your hands and your SO the perpetual problem is all of this!

This poor guy, I can't imagine what he's going thru or what's running thru his mind. Especially now as you so kindly put it that’s he’s basically useless as he’s not the bread winner anymore. If you happy to write this in a public forum and happy to let him read it, I'd be interested in how you address him behind closed doors.

Reiterating, we have a guy who was happy & content to wear panties and a dress. Instead his SO GG decides that he doesn't fit into the way she wants him to get in touch with his own personal feminine side, takes control and basically forces him to dress (most probably act) and what ever else to her demands, bit like training a dog to sit really.

As much as I hold empathy towards this entire sad affair. I sincerely believe that the only way he’s going to get his head clear and his life back, & or you both stand any chance of saving this marriage,
is to make some BIG choices right now.

Your part in this needs to be supportive, drop the self pity and let him do what he wants for a change.


beckii


PS I don't claim to be qualified in the area of Psychology, I'm no lay person either, but in retrospect if I don't say something it's far worse than not saying anything at all.

If this gets me booted, banned or whatever, then it’s been fun, thanks everyone for making me feel welcome and taking the time to respond to my posts, thoughts and requests. :)

[rory]

Hi Kitty,

Like others I am in no way a professional. I have read some of your other posts.
and I don't mean to read between the lines or to put any other thoughts where they should not be.

So please forgive me in advance.

So I have to ask
Could the real issue about all of this be maybe fears that his feminine personna is trying to develope into a real being?

I would think that this would scare the H*** out of both you. You have stated in the past that if he were to have a sex change that it could lead to a divorce.

Maybe she subconsciencely is trying to get out. She is afraid of being alone and rejected by you. Maybe she is so locked up inside of this fear that the walls of communication are being bricked up.

Maybe you to are afraid of this. I would be if I were you.

I know you know that crossdressing in itself isn't a big thing. Its just clothes after all. ( took me a lifetime to get there) As long as 2 people are commmunicating and going thru life in the same direction all is good.

I think there is more going on. I think you both are in great pain and anguishing very much over this dilemma. After all no one wants to loose somebody they love.

All I can say is I believe in prayer. So I will add this most troublesome issue of yours to my list.

Hugs to both you and yours. I hope that the coming new year will be brighter for both of you.

Hugs Rory

P.S.

[Sheila]

My bottom lip is almost chewed thru, my SO advised me to zip it & keep my thoughts to myself, but me being me, I had to dig deeper into this, as it just didn't seem to gel.

I do wish you had listned to your SO

Jess

[kittypw GG]

Beckii,
Honey please reconsider going back on your meds. It will be ok dear. Things will get better. :love: Kitty

[GG Vanya]

I do wish you had listned to your SO

Jess


Ditto, in extreme! Reminds me of an old adage:

Those who can...do...those who can't... try to tell others how it should be done.

As one who has known Kitty for quite some time here and been a shoulder as well as an ear, but most importantly her *friend* I am offended in more ways than I can even express at your "sermon" to her.

I had decided to not post on this forum any more. Suffice it to say that your attack on Kitty was appalling enough to make me break my vow of silence.

:Angry3: :Angry3:

P.S. In case you missed it, personal attacks on a member is against the rules.

[ColleenCD]

Kitty,

I had to think about this a bit. You are very sharp in that you seek advice for the things that are so close to you that your view may not be clear. IMHO once a month is not too much to ask, but sometimes it may be more and sometimes it may be less. Sometimes it may be polish and underwear and sometimes it may be completely gorgeous. It isn't always about the clock or calendar, but about the relationship. You have limits that involve the bedroom. More than fair. If I were you husband, I would readily accept this offer since he maintains the husbandly role, much to his benefit also.

Your participation should be related to your love of the person you married. IMHO, allow yourself to see him express the person he is on the inside. But, remind him to be patient with you as this is a priviledge you extend to him through your relationship to meet his need of your participation. The more time you spend together the stronger your relationship becomes. If you sense an uncomfortable area of his dressing, then be honest with him.

I admire you for your support of him and us here on this forum. You've helped me personally and I appreciate it.

Colleen

[Delila]

I have never found participation to be that important in anything other then shopping. On occasion my wife has done my makeup and I really enjoyed that but that was all voluntary on her end. I really try to keep it to myself if she is home I just try to not go over the top by doing things like wearing forms or a wig. Sorry to ramble i was just unsure of what participate actually meant.

[lowlavalentine]

Kitty, I would agree that there aren't really any rules or conventions and that communication between you and your hubby setting limits and expectations is key. My wife doesn't participate in my cding, but she does give me girl time and space. The way she puts it is "As important as this activity may be to you, it's just not that important to me." Doesn't mean she doesn't love me, doesn't mean I love her less, doesn't mean our relationship will fail (it's lasted over 20 years already). So whatever works for your two is the right balance.

Lowla

[kittypw GG]

Most of you have given me some things to consider. A lot of you have said what I have been saying from the begining to my hubby. I have tried many things to please him but he falls short in the reciprocation. We have tried counseling but it doesn't work if you have one partner who feels like they are being dragged there. The only way counseling will work is if both buy into it and actually commit to doing the things the counselor suggests.

It confuses me that he says that he loves me and wants to be married to me but he treats me like I'm not really important to him. He has his sweet moments but overall he just acts like he is just not that into me. He wants me to be into him though. I listen to his actions they tell me a story way different from his words which are few and far between.

I did not like setting a specific limit on the crossdressing but if I didn't then he would hound me and get angry at me because I didn't suggest it. I guess that the limit was so that I could get some peace in between. I get weary always fighting about something that is important to him while the things that are important to me keep getting ignored or the effort put into them is minimal. You know what I mean, the effort is such that you just want to say why bother in the first place. It is obvious that he begrudgingly participates and it is obvious so that he can say "look I did your thing". He should be thankful that I don't act that way when I participate in his crossdressing but I am not that kind of person.

I am at the point where I just don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me. Ain't got no more fight in me. Don't know if he is willing to fight for me.

Thanks everyone :love: Kitty

[Beckii_aCDInOz]

Beckii,
Honey please reconsider going back on your meds. It will be ok dear. Things will get better. :love: Kitty

I'm not about to entertain a flame war with another member, I’ll take the higher ground always. Hence I’ll keep my comment regarding your bad tasted remark brief.

Casting derogative connotations at anyone’s mental health is very immature in my opinion. It perpetuates ignorance, intolerance and stands as another clear reminder why the transgender community, especially why cross dressers fear being discovered.

It’s comments just like yours that sicken me to the pit of my stomach.

[Dixie Darling]

Kathy,

Having been a member of this forum for quite a while now, I have read a lot of your posts, replies to other posts, and I don't mind saying that I admire your honesty and your train of thought.

Being a deeply closeted crossdresser I can only IMAGINE what it might be like to have a partner who is accepting/tolerant as you seem to be, so with that in mind here's how I would answer your questions.

You asked,
"How often should a spouse or girlfriend have to participate to keep their CD happy?" The KEY word I see here is HAVE (to participate). Even in a relationship where there is acceptance and/or tolerance, my opinion is that the wife or girlfriend shouldn't HAVE to participate if she doesn't want to. Looking at the situation from a CD's point of view, sure - we'd love to have participation if for no other reasons than to learn from our partner's acquired skills in makeup, fashion, hair styling, etc. The experience you GGs gain over your lifetimes is invaluable to a typical CD and the wise advice you are capable of supplying concerning these things is something that the typical CD SHOULD be grateful for. But in the overall picture, if the GG isn't comfortable with participating in her man's dressing, then she should never be expected to do so. He should be grateful that she is (at least) tolerant and allows him to do so when he needs to.

You asked,
"How often should our CD's be the man in our lives?" I'm assuming that you're mostly referring to intimate relationships in your question.The simple answer is that he should ALWAYS be the man in your life. He should understand and RESPECT the facts that in an accepting/tolerating relationship, he's able to dress with his partner's "blessings" to do so, but at the same time that doesn't mean that this partner has a desire to have him dressed enfemme for intimate relations. Also, he shouldn't take his dressing to excess. Here again, this is a sort of 'privilige' he's been granted by an accepting spouse and he should take care not to abuse it lest it be revoked. Since he obviously has a NEED to dress, my personal opinion is that this need is recognized by his partner and allowances are made in the form of frequency, location, etc. to indulge himself.

Obviously, this isn't going to be representative of others opinions since everyone's situation and opinions are different. This isn't meant to be something contrary to others replies.

Dixie -- http://www.geocities.com/senorita_cd

[KimberlyS]

WOW this tread has progressed a lot since I last seen it. I feel pretty lame in neglecting my friends Kitty and Dannielle. While my wife and I have not known them long, they have already grown on us and we wish we could do more to help.

I would like to point out a few things that helped my wife and I. Two books among the many we have read that were really helpful to us were the following. If you can, the best way to read these are to by his and hers books and then read with a highlighter and pencil.

The Five Love Languages by by Gary Chapman (the original one not any of the "........ For something" versions. )
And there are several other similar books to this thought process by other authors. But in a nut shell we communicate our love to others and receive love from others in different ways. So while one spouse may be giving tons of love, their spouse may not be feeling or receiving it. This book also has a workbook supplement that can be purchased also which will aid in what you get out of the book and help in discussion things with your spouse.

His Needs Her Needs by Jr Willard F Harley (again the original one and not any of the follow on books.) Again this book shows how men and woman communicate differently. I thought this also had a workbook but did not see it online.

Both of these books are also available in an audio format. There also also many other good relationship books, these are just two that help me and my wife out also.

A quick thought on books, counseling, and other outside help. If you and your spouse had all the answers and could make this work:
How did you get to this point in your relationship.
OH NO, maybe you do not have all of the knowledge and answers to make it work.

Kitty, I am not sure if this is the case in your situation, but it sounds like it may be. And this final thing I would like to plug is something mostly for the GUYS as we seem to struggle the most with this, but I have also seen where the roll is reversed. If your spouse is willing to talk to you about your CDing, then you need to talk to them. In most, if not all, cases this is not something you can just ignore and it will go away.

SO OPEN YOUR XXXbleepyXXXX MOUTH. :laughing: :yikes:

And talk, listen, and communicate with your wife/GF/SO/partner. It may not be easy and it was not for me. But if your wife is willing to talk to you about this you need to talk, open up to them. Do not give them the surface over view. You need to dig down deeper, and I mean DEEPER and get into your feelings. It is ok if you do not know all the answers and it is ok to tell your spouse that. Hey maybe you could work out the answers together!!!!!

Love is feelings, maybe it is time you shared a few more with your spouse.

If you think talking to your spouse about this is hard. Wait until you open up and do it only to find out it was harder to hold it in than to talk about it.

Just some thoughts from a weird CDer. :roflmao:

KimberlyS - CD

[Tamara Croft]

I shudder to think how long this type of behavioural treatment has been active in your marriage. Least of all in your previous courtship. Have you asked? or did you come to your own conclusion from previous posts?


It must really be starting to eat into your life & affecting you as a person. Too bad you didn't think about your SO as a person too, before venturing down your self indulgent, self gratifying path. Wow, such harsh words, did you take the time to actually PM Kitty and ask about her SO before coming to this conclusion, or did you yet again read too much into her previous posts..... Too bad you didn't, or you wouldn't have said such spiteful comments.


Instead of beating this guy up, you, yes you kitty, should be trying your dammdest to be making things right! Oh is that right?? and you know she isn't trying how?? oh that's right, YOU DON'T KNOW, because you didn't take the time to privately ASK HER did you eh??


Instead of again pointing the finger at your SO (and belittling him) who quite frankly in my mind obviously thought the world of you; who else would allow themselves to be changed in such a way other than for the love of someone else.Hmm.... getting the feeling you really don't know Kitty at all... no actually, you DON'T know her at all, because this quote couldn't be far wrong!!!!


What upsets me the most is that you've created this issue all by yourself & either your unwilling to accept responsibility for your own actions or your simply void of seeing the truth.Her actions?? and again, you seriously didn't do your homework..... getting the feeling, maybe you are actually ranting about yourself!!!!


Yet, instead of realising your part in this and owning it, you instead play the blame game and make out like you hold no cards, it's out of your hands and your SO the perpetual problem is all of this!Oh, that's right, the SO is to blame, like I said, you know NOTHING, you didn't ASK HER, you just assumed Kitty was at fault.... how wrong you are again!!!!


This poor guy, I can't imagine what he's going thru or what's running thru his mind. Especially now as you so kindly put it that’s he’s basically useless as he’s not the bread winner anymore. If you happy to write this in a public forum and happy to let him read it, I'd be interested in how you address him behind closed doors.Funny, he hasn't replied or stood up for himself... I wonder why that is.... Kitty is the bread winner yes, imagine what stress she is under, not to mention everything else that is going on..... oh I forgot.... YOU DIDN'T ASK HER DID YOU.....


Reiterating, we have a guy who was happy & content to wear panties and a dress. Instead his SO GG decides that he doesn't fit into the way she wants him to get in touch with his own personal feminine side, takes control and basically forces him to dress (most probably act) and what ever else to her demands, bit like training a dog to sit really.

As much as I hold empathy towards this entire sad affair. I sincerely believe that the only way he’s going to get his head clear and his life back, & or you both stand any chance of saving this marriage,
is to make some BIG choices right now.


Your part in this needs to be supportive, drop the self pity and let him do what he wants for a change.Shameful.... just shameful...

As much as I've tried to bite my tongue, these quotes of bs has really pissed me off. You don't know Kitty, you don't know the whole story and you most certainly do not have the right to belittle her like this on the forum. You've taken her post out of context and turned it into a hateful, spiteful, name calling, judgemental load of bs. What right did you have to do that? What has any of the above got to do with the question she asked? Did she ask you to bring up all her previous posts and slam them into something that really does not exist??

Do you know anything about Kitty other than what you have read? do you know what she is going through right now? HAVE YOU ACTUALLY ASKED HER????? I guess not, or you would never have posted this rubbish.... and yes, it is RUBBISH... Some people never cease to amaze with with pyscho babble.. :thumbsdn: :thumbsdn: :thumbsdn: :thumbsdn: :thumbsdn:
Next time you feel the need to tear someone apart, I suggest you do your homework first or have the decency to take some time and PM that person before slamming them on the forum.

[tekla west]

"Do you know anything about Kitty other than what you have read?"

Given the limitations of a forum that is as Google puts it "Typical entry in forum style" how could anyone know more? All we have here is words.

And, drop the entire CD deal (or better yet, substitute someother preoccupation) and you will find a letter, that is just like thousands, if not millions of other letters about problems in relationships. The basic point is that the two people have differeing styles of communication and its not working. Sometimes outside ears can help, mostly people just hit this wall and will in time go their own way. That's not good, or bad, its just life. People can grow apart as sure as they can grow together, and divorce rates would indicate that more than CD is going on.

[Tamara Croft]

"Do you know anything about Kitty other than what you have read?"

Given the limitations of a forum that is as Google puts it "Typical entry in forum style" how could anyone know more? All we have here is words.

The PM system isn't limited is it?? such a thing as 'asking'... oh wait.... I'm repeating myself, since I've already mentioned the PM system, you chose just to ignore that fact..... :rolleyes:

[tekla west]

It was posted in a public forum. Perhaps the PM system should have been the alpha point and not the omega.

[Tree GG]

Some really strong opinions going on here.

I have posted with Kitty for several months now & find her to be a giving, caring and strong woman who is struggling in her relationship and regret that anyone was moved to direct attacks in a public settings. (Thou doest protest too much?)

The point that some of the major issues being dealt with here are non-CD related is very valid. The strain of adding CD to the work load sometimes is just more weight than the emotional baggage cart can stand. It's a catalyst, not a cause. If it hadn't been CDing, it'd have been something else.

What about the ostrich affect? Wives who stick their heads in the sand and not look? Doesn't make the CDing any less real - doesn't make the husband's added hobby any less burdonsome to time restrictions. However the point can be made that this is the way to go. They CD'd before we knew without our involvement - why should we be involved now, even if they ask?

Let's take the HAVE out of Kitty's thread title. We have "How often is SO participation req'd? Most of the beginning posts answered that from their point of view.

Add the "HAVE" and then we have a slightly different meaning that connotates obligation and lack of free will.

Why does a CDer HAVE to CD? Why does a SO HAVE to participate? Why does a husband HAVE to interact (verbally, physically, whatever) with his wife, and vise versa? Nobody HAS to do anything.

Except.......
If a CDer felt he wanted to perserve a marriage with a SO that was totally against CDing, the CDer would HAVE to hide in the closet.

If a wife wanted to perserve a marriage/relationship with a CDer and felt lack of participation would indicate unacceptance and drive the CDer away, she would feel she HAD to participate.

Or in Kitty's case, she feels she has to participate to get intimate interaction (verbally or physically) with her husband.

Beckii's rant - although hostile and pretty much off the mark in Kitty's case - did hit home with me in 2 ways:

#1) When a CDer comes out of the closet & asks for the wive's/SO's opinion on clothes, hair, makeup - it appears the SO should decline comment - kinda like the "Do I look fat in these jeans?" question. It's hard. But just as somewhere around 12 yrs old I could no longer buy clothes for my daughter (she hated them), I should resist the urge to buy "personal" gifts for CDing. Even though I've been married to this man for decades and should be able to be as personal as it gets. Hence the quandry.

#2) Define support & acceptance. In any other aspect of our married life, I would define this as cooperation and active energies toward a shared goal. As much pressure as is put on "enlightened" adults to tolerate and accept alternative lifestyles, you'd think it would be good to get in there and "build the better woman" with a CDer and enjoy the play. But from Beckii_CD's point of view, I am altering the persona of my husband's feminine side. Which I would be, so I should stay out of it - I like sand!

I would like to answer Kitty's original question from my multiple choice personality perspective.

"How often is SO participation required?"

A) As often as never
B) As often as always
C) As often as makes Kitty smile
D) None of the above
E) All of the above

Hint: There is no right answer

[KimberlyS]

Tree GG, I like your move back to Kitty's original question and your multiple choice question. I think we could have 100 plus choices.




"How often is SO participation required?"

A) As often as never
B) As often as always
C) As often as makes Kitty smile
D) None of the above
E) All of the above

Hint: There is no right answer

And I agree there is no right or wrong answer and each couple needs to figure out what works for them. I can relate a lot to some of what Kitty and SO are going through. When my wife and I got down to the point of really starting to work through the CDing issues, my wife asked me a question:

I do not remember the exact wording, but it was something like:
What do you want out of me?
What type of participation?
What or how much acceptance ?

The top for me would be for her to totally accept my CDing in all ways and to partake in my CDing like we currently do most things together as a couple.

The minimum would be for her to accept that there was a feminine part of me. This was most likely the easiest for her because she already could see my feminine traits. And I said accept, not like. And that if that was all that she could accept and partake in to be able to allow me time to CD on my own with not participation on her part, accept maybe the fact that was what I was doing.

Where are we? Well we are somewhere in the middle just as most are. We are looking for a CDing lifestyle (for lack of a better term), that we are both comfortable with. And once or if we do ever reach this point I am sure it will change just like most other things do in life. In the mean time I do some cding things and some non-cding things. Even on the "CDing" outing weekends my wife and I go on, we do both CDing things and Non-CDing things. The thing that has helped a lot is she knows I need time to CD and I know she needs some of the male of me and non-cding time. And actually most of our 1 on 1 time is non-cding which is actually ok with me.

[Julie York]

I passed over this thread several times and finally have just read it all from the front to back.


Interesting situation. It has little to do with crossdressing really. That's just what is being used as the 'power play' between you both in your emotional turmoil.


Summary: You are lonely, tired and in need of support and want to feel genuinely loved for a change.

He appears to be selfish and very immature.


Doesn't have much to do with CD stuff at all really.

I wish you luck.










Then again we haven't had his side of the story.

[Nike]

Wow.

Kitty,

For some time as I have read your posts, I have felt like there was so much more beneath the surface which you were struggling with. I pray that you find the strength you need, the peace you deserve and the courage of your convictions.

Having been out to my significant other in every relationship I have been in over the past 25+ years I cannot comprehend the attitude of your husband.

The answer to "how often is SO participation required?" is up to each couple. For me I need my SO's participation in OUR relationship ALWAYS! Now I do know that you meant participation in the CD'ing activity. For me the answer lies within the relationship my Bride and I have. I Love being her Husband! I Adore Her! It gives me Great pleasure to give her some of the things she wants, and I hope, everything she Needs. Few things please me more than to give her something she wants because I believe she really "needs" to have it!

As I said, I LOVE being Her Husband. On the other hand, I also adore being Her "wife". Sometimes it's even fun to be "Her Bit.." ........ er... :redface: well, you know.

In my life, as I have said before, I tend to try to err on the side of being the Husband too much instead of erring by being the "other woman" too much.

The irony is that I know that I am accepted and LOVED however I dress because I put our Marriage Bond first and always. Who's doing what to whom and how are all incidental, because it's all MUTUAL!

I believe that in a marriage, sometimes we all do things because we know it will please our lifemate, even if it's not our "first choice".

Risking sounding like a broken record, I choose to "Make Love" to my Bride all day long, everyday. When the sex part of "Making Love" happens, it is always special, regardless of who's panties are being pulled down. :redface:

I understand that your situation is somewhat unique in that you have been "forced" by circumstance to be the bread winner in your household. I do not know how I would react if I were disabled and dependent, but I hope that I would show even more affection and appreciation to my Bride if she had to bear that burden.

Trudi

[David R]

This is for Beckii from Dannielle.Kittypw's husband I've read what you wrote to Kitty's post and you are so far out of the ballpark.first let me say I appreciate all of the posts here to Kitty and myself I probably am very self centered and selfish as far as the crossdressing goes and I don't give Kitty enough credit.I have been blessed by such a wonderful spouse I am not sure where are marriage will go from here but it won't be because she did not put most of the effort into it,We have gone through my gender identity ?s alcoholism and just plain stupidity mostly on my part I won't say that all of it is me put I will claim the lions share.She has put up with me when most others would have left and I do love her for that.Beckii you have no clue what you are talking about you must have read so much of your own thoughts and feeling's into that post it was so far out there as far as I am concerned.Anyway Kitty never tried to create the feminine me.And I wish she would force me to cd sometimes but that's not her thing and that's okay next time maybe you should keep your judgement to yourself unless you actually have some fact to back it up.Sorry if I came on strong but this is my wife and I do love her and appreciate the fact that she came into my life.Thanks for letting me rant.bye for now Dannielle/David

[Tamara Croft]

Dannielle, it took a lot of courage to come on to the forum and stand up for your wife against someone who seems extremely bitter. I applaud you for stating how it really is between you both and putting a certain person straight on a few facts. Thank you for that and I'm sure Kitty will thank you also :hugs:

[Sheila]

Dannielle:thumbsup: for your support of Kitty's post, she really did not deserve Beckii's reply. It will be interesting to see how he responds to yours and if he even begins to apologize to Kitty

Jess

[Bluebird GG]

for me i have to participate via Teriann otherwise his dressing would get boring and stale for me so participation 24/7 is a must.:thumbsup:

[tekla west]

Rather than telling others to chime out and then - well not exactly rushing in, it took a week or so - to defend her, why did he not act right to prevent the problem in the first place? That, I might add, was totally within his power to do. Its great he can spring to her defense here, but if the home sitution was better this might not have ever come up on these boards (and as I will explain, it should not). Given all that was said, his defense of here on these boards, given his neglect of her at home, is hardly praiseworthy. Moreover, those are conversations that should have been going down beween the two of them an a marriage councilor, or minister, or whoever - but not us.

The airing of dirty linen in public is always distasteful at best, which is why decent people try hard to avoid doing it, and why other decent people try to look the other way and not notice. Because once you put it out for public consumption and comment then anyone & everyone is free to join and add what they feel moved to say.

This board is more than likely not the best spot to do such things. Its good for tips for CDs, a place to tell of our small victories, to talk about clothes, movies and other trivial amusements, and a place to share our little trips out and about. As such, it tends to be a poor place for marriage therapy - particularly when its so one sided. Heck, any public forum is a bad place for it no matter if its CD board or a Rod and Gun board. If for not other notion than rational and reasonable people do not put this kind of interpersonal mess on view for all to see.

Good God, that’s why such sessions with thearipists, priests, ministers and the like are always confidential. We don’t want to know - not should we - that you are too busy satisfying yourself to pay attention to your wife. You’re lucky she came here I guess instead of doing what a lot of women and men in that sitution do, which is head on down the road and find someone who cares about them. Women taken for granted are gone, and from the sound of it, she may well have stayed too long as it is - sure sounds a lot like what she is saying and thinking.

You should be absolutely humiliated that your wife has to troll with anonymous (and we pretty much are) postings on the internet to find some comfort, some sympathy, and someone who cares. That is not worthy of any of praise, it is simply shameful.

Don’t stick up for her in here. Try being a stand-up guy in real life, then it will not come to this. You have a do-right woman there. Do the right thing - and soon - or she’s going be long gone. That’s just the way the world goes round.

Because along with all that advice, good, bad or indifferent, I’m sure there were more than a few PMs that basically said, “Hey, I can treat you better than that.” In fact, it would be hard not to.

[Satrana]

The airing of dirty linen in public is always distasteful at best, which is why decent people try hard to avoid doing it, and why other decent people try to look the other way and not notice. Because once you put it out for public consumption and comment then anyone & everyone is free to join and add what they feel moved to say.



I agree, this whole thread has been wierd from start to finish and I am amazed at the motivations on display. I cannot get rid of the feeling that there is something terribly wrong going on here. It felt like I was reading a tabloid magazine. I think it best the couple sought professional help....and quickly.

[Sheila]

The airing of dirty linen in public is always distasteful at best, which is why decent people try hard to avoid doing it, and why other decent people try to look the other way and not notice.


I do so hope that you are not attempting to imply that Kitty is not a decent person as she is one of the most decent caring human beings on this board, if I have misunderstood you I apologize

[kittypw GG]

I understand your points Telka but as you know that most thearpists don't even understand crossdressing or even gender identity issues. I know that a lot of our issuses are separate from the crossdressing but how do you get to that point. We have been to a few counselors some have told me that my husband is a sexual deviant. Most think that it is beyond their ability because they focus on the crossdressing being the major problem. Most of the time we can't get past that point. I have really been let down by the mental health community. I must be under the mistaken assumption that men who crossdress could and would have had some of the same expirences and could reach out to my hubby in a way that he would understand. Hell we don't even know any other crossdressers in our community and we live in the largest city in our state. It isn't easy to find a group of married crossdressers to take example from. I still don't regret putting my question in this section. I have had some lovely responses, great ideas and generally good feeling.

I am sorry that my life has been such a burden on some of you or made you feel disgust. Next time I'll start my own panty chafing thread. Just to make some of you who don't want to hear about real life struggles with marriage and crossdressing feel good.

Again thank for all of the great comments and advice. I still would feel lost without you.:love: Kitty

[KimberlyS]

First, to the best of my knowledge, this is a support and help forum. But it has been awhile since I read the forum guidelines.

Second, what this forum sees is often just the tip of what is actually going on within a couples lives. Most people and couples are going through a lot more within their whole lives not just the CD. And everything within our lives is interrelated.

Third, while most people do a fairly good job at presenting an overview of what they want to share or what they would like to have help with: It is just that and overview and their overview from their prospective. There are always other details and often a life time of details, past relationships, work and other stress, money and many other related information. While we can try to put ourself in their place, their is really no way we can as we are not living their life.

Forth, many of us, including myself, refer people to third parties for help. But finding the right third party that can relate and help out both spouses, the CDing issues, and other issues; is not always an easy task. I know of one (1) person in a city of 110k plus that specializes in gender issues, with very limited CDing experience. I know the first counselor we went to quoted out of the DSM and then proceed to fully tell me I was wrong, and sin full without knowing anything about my CDing. And the other two I had were quick to quote the DSM also but were easier to work with. One even said she had experience in gender issues. She had done research, and have several gay people in the past. So while gender, it was not related to my situation. And I have heard of many stores that the professional counselor just made things worse for the relationship than it was before because there is so little knowledge of TG issues withing the mental health field.

Fifth, we all have our short comings, and most of us already know what most of ours are. So why do you need to point them out. Lets work on the issues that the poster asked about or real issues if you see it as something else. And lets hopefully do this in a positive way. If we wanted negative we would not be here, we would be back in our situation or issue and not ask for help. But we are striving to do and be better.

My wife and I know Kitty and Dannielle personally. And while I would say we are not in the middle of this, but are close on the sidelines. And I would say we only know a slice of the bread of this and all of you know a crumb. For most of us, this forum only sees a small part of who we are. Like I said in an earlier post. I did not realize this post had gone so far otherwise I would have been posting more. I guess I am busy with my own life like most of us should be. And talk about feeling helpless.

I know it can be easy to give advice when we only know a few details. And I know I fall in to this also. But I normally try to assume very little, and what I do I state. And I try to give more general advice, or what worked for myself or my marriage, or what worked for someone else, and in that context. All information on this site is advice and we all need to be able to read and use what may help and discard what is not related to our situation or useful to us.

Enjoy your journey through life. You only get one.

KimberlyS-CD

[Sheila]

KimberlyS:thumbup:

[GG Vanya]

Quote from tekla:

The airing of dirty linen in public is always distasteful at best, which is why decent people try hard to avoid doing it, and why other decent people try to look the other way and not notice. Because once you put it out for public consumption and comment then anyone & everyone is free to join and add what they feel moved to say.

OK, I am compelled to respond to this.

This forum is for *support* for CDs, their family and friends. Silly me, I assumed that meant more than just helping decide which color panties one should wear on any given day. :rolleyes:

If you consider Kitty's request for help in this thread to be dirty linen, what the hell would you classify those couples who battle it out via this forum? And yes, there have been a few of those lately.

As dirty linen goes, I'd have to say Kitty's thread is nothing more than one day's wear. Hell, there aren't even any skid marks. :rolleyes:

As Kitty said, I guess we should all now return to supporting those with panty chafing problems or how to properly tuck and avoid the heart breaking issues that couples face in struggling with acceptance of one partner's gender duality.

[MsJanessa]

Interesting thread----but ultimatly it is totally up to the two people involved---I hope that our collective comments and our private e-mails to you have been helpful. Good luck.

[Nike]

"Good God, that’s why such sessions with thearipists, priests, ministers and the like are always confidential. We don’t want to know - not should we - that you are too busy satisfying yourself to pay attention to your wife. You’re lucky she came here I guess instead of doing what a lot of women and men in that sitution do, which is head on down the road and find someone who cares about them. Women taken for granted are gone, and from the sound of it, she may well have stayed too long as it is - sure sounds a lot like what she is saying and thinking.

You should be absolutely humiliated that your wife has to troll with anonymous (and we pretty much are) postings on the internet to find some comfort, some sympathy, and someone who cares. That is not worthy of any of praise, it is simply shameful.

Don’t stick up for her in here. Try being a stand-up guy in real life, then it will not come to this. You have a do-right woman there. Do the right thing - and soon - or she’s going be long gone. That’s just the way the world goes round.

Because along with all that advice, good, bad or indifferent, I’m sure there were more than a few PMs that basically said, “Hey, I can treat you better than that.” In fact, it would be hard not to." posted by Tekla West

Although I disagree with Tekla that this forum is more for the distraction of entertainment and superficial banter, indicated in her first three paragraphs, I commend her for the rest of the post which is pasted above. It is honest and direct. It speaks to the core of what every human NEEDS. We all need to feel loved. We all need to know that we matter.

One very old principle applys here.

"Whatsoever ye sow, so shall ye reap"

In other words, if one isn't making an investment, an effort, they won't get a damned thing back.

Based on all I have read on these boards from both Danielle and Kitty, one of them is investing her energy, putting forth the effort and the "account" is showing no return. All investments that are retained, show some level of return, show some interest and hope for a better future.

[KrazyKat]

Kittypw and Danielle, :hugs:May a mist of LOVE be wrapped around you both for the remainder of the year!!!


Hoping the healing can begin for an awesome 2007!!

[JulieCDorlando]

Hello,
I am not sure how this is going to end up being read, but would like to interject something here.
If some people claim that this thread has gone on long enough, then why pray tell are they continually reading this thread, and making waves with their postings? Just like anyone would do when a bad televison show is on, turn the thing off and do something else. so should you do the same here. Stop reading threads that irritate you. Many people seek out advice from those they have an understanding of some degree with issues dealing with gender. Often enough there are not many certified therapist capable of dealing with complex issues as this, and those that are I often wonder if they got their diploma out of a gum machine at the local Wal - Mart. Fortunately there seems to be a lot of genuine concern here on this site for those that are confused about gender, and orher issues that some of us can relate to and are willing to help those in need.
As far as I am concerned there wasn't any airing of dirty laundry. One of our own that was hurting and reaching out for comfort, support and advice. I believe most here rose to meet that challenge and all of those folk should be wll commended.
Opinions are like sphincter muscles, everyone has one and everyone thinks the others stink. :2c:

[tekla west]

Let me put it this way.

If Kitty had written “When I was taking a shower this morning I felt a small lump in my breast” how many people would have said anything other than “Girl, get to a doctor, NOW!” Why, because we are not qualified to deal with that.

Or...

... had she confessed to thinking that life was not worth going on with, not worth living, and that she was feeling suicidal, would we not have told her to find professional help post haste? I’m sure.

How is any of this any different?

The fact is, that at least here in the States, to be a marriage councilor, it takes a Master Degree in Family Therapy, and a long residency before you can get your licence or credential. Once you have that you would never do this in public, on the web based forum, for all to see. That would be a violation of all medical standards, practices, and ethics. Moreover, they would pull that licence from you faster than you could imagine if you engaged in such ad hoc counseling efforts.

And - this is not a minor point either - anyone who does this for real would have at least got both sides of the story first. More than likely in one-on-one sessions with each of them, and then with sessions with both of them, before even beginning to formulate any conclusions - conclusions that people in here leaped to like Michael Jordan going to the rim.

Such therapy is often a team effort. To wit: I’m sure that a financial councilor would have been involved very fast, as there are money problems, and most divorces begin and end with money more than any other single reason. Among other things - for those who actually read it - there are far more issues here than just the CD deal.

And yes, it’s a support site, but support for what? All issues are not equal. So, the process of coming out, something that most of us are familiar with, something that we have a real life background with, something most of us share is something that we can and should offer support on. But involvement in a deteriorating marriage is more than likely not the kind of thing we can, or should offer support for. We can - and should - plead that they find someone trained to offer real help instead of just mouthing some platitudes that were based on preconceived notions and not the result of a therapeutic analysis.

There is a time and a place for everything, and this may well not be the place for any of us to interfere or intrude on what is a private and personal matter that requires professional help.

It never ceases to amaze me that people who know better then to pretend they are board certified surgeons and do a little amateur open heart surgery on the side, or who are aware that they are not ontologists and can not treat cancer in their spare time, feel that in the realm of counseling, therapy, and mental health that they can participate in what is a highly trained and skilled profession where the stakes are very high.

In real life I don’t know of a single person who ever got in the middle of a couple’s relationship problems who did not regret it. I fail to see how this is any different.

[Sheila]

If some people claim that this thread has gone on long enough, then why pray tell are they continually reading this thread, and making waves with their postings? Just like anyone would do when a bad televison show is on, turn the thing off and do something else. so should you do the same here. Stop reading threads that irritate you. Many people seek out advice from those they have an understanding of some degree with issues dealing with gender. Often enough there are not many certified therapist capable of dealing with complex issues as this, and those that are I often wonder if they got their diploma out of a gum machine at the local Wal - Mart. Fortunately there seems to be a lot of genuine concern here on this site for those that are confused about gender, and orher issues that some of us can relate to and are willing to help those in need.
As far as I am concerned there wasn't any airing of dirty laundry. One of our own that was hurting and reaching out for comfort, support and advice. I believe most here rose to meet that challenge and all of those folk should be wll commended.
Opinions are like sphincter muscles, everyone has one and everyone thinks the others stink. :2c:

well said:iagree:

[Tamara Croft]

Ok so here is the question. How often should a spouse or girlfriend have to participate to keep their CD happy? How often should our CD's be the man in our lives? The flip side of the coin is just as important don't you think?This is the question, so can we cut out all the damn psycho babble, cus I'm getting sick of reading it.... it's NOT relevant to the question :rolleyes:

STAY ON TOPIC!!!!!!!!

[Sharon]

Just a note to you all who refuse to respect the thread to remain on topic, your posts are being deleted from this point on.

[tekla west]

People in adult relationships should not "HAVE TO" do anything. It should always be mutual consent. The term in the fetish community (and we are talking fetish here, are we not?) is "Consenting Adults". To be placed into a "have to" position is not how adults are supposed to do relationships. Requirements are for college courses, not relationships.

And what do we mean by "participate" anyway? Are we talking about little things, like sharing lipstick, shopping, or picking out clothes, or - as I suspect - are we talking about very exact and specific sexual acts and psycho-sexual drama? Huge difference. To get the real answer you require, you must begin by asking the question you really want the answer to.

[Nike]

Ok so here is the question. How often should a spouse or girlfriend have to participate to keep their CD happy? How often should our CD's be the man in our lives? The flip side of the coin is just as important don't you think?

I'll keep this simple.

When she damn well feels like it. (part A)

Personally, I think the CD should always be the "man" in his SO's life as a provider of loving affirmation, support (emotional and/or financial), respect, encouragement and hope. Having become comfortable with himself as a PERSON, the CD'ing becomes less traumatic for BOTH partners and the SO will "damn well feel like it" far more often.

[Stephenie S]

Dear Dannielle,

I am writing this to you and not answering Kitty's post directly because I think that you are the one I want to talk to.

In a previous relationship I behaved in a similar fashion with regard to my CDing. I was so proud of myself for being open at the beginning of our relationship and so pleased with the fact that my SO seemed to be so accepting that I lost sight of HER and HER needs. I told her everything and all my desires. "So what?", she said. I was blown away. I had her help me with my dressing, with my makeup, with my nails, etc. We went together to CD parties and events. We went shopping together. We entertained CD friends. It was great! Then one day my wife told me of one of HER fantasies. All I did was ridicule her!! Well, let me tell you, Dannielle, that was the beginning of the end for that relationship. It went on for many more years, but it was all down hill from that point.

You may be at that point in YOUR relationship. Kitty has stated point blank that she wants to be romanced. Taken out, wined and dined, and then when you get home, she wants you to "be all over her". Can you do that once a month? How about once a week? I'll bet you could even get away with skipping the wine and dine part if money is tight, but I don't really advise it. Even a Big Mac is fun with someone you love. This is a small price to pay for getting the acceptance you have gotten for your desires. Don't ignore your wife's needs and wants.

Women have needs different than men. This is something you should be open to, especially as you want to feel more feminine yourself. As a man, you can come home, grab some supper, head for the bedroom and have a satisfying sexual experience. A woman wants her sexual encounter to start much earlier in the day. Kiss her good morning with some gusto. Leave her a romantic note when you leave the house. Call her during the day and ask her what underwear she is wearing. Then when you get home get "all over her". The results will blow your mind and you will have one happy woman who will do ANYTHING you want in return.

Now on to my next point. You need to learn to take care of yourself. REALLY! Learn to do your own makeup. Learn to dress yourself. Learn to shop for flattering clothes. Learn to do your nails. This is all part of what a woman does. Do it. You will LOVE IT!! Honest to God. It's really fun. And this will help your relationship greatly. Don't make your wife responsible for your desires. This is YOUR thing. Just imagine, for a minute that you were into cars instead of CDing. Would it make sense for you to require Kitty to tune your engine or wax your car? Or to get mad if she didn't? Of course not. And you wouldn't get half the satisfaction out of it either. The same thing is true of CDing. Learn to do it yourself. It will be SOOO much more satisfying and rewarding to you. Kitty is already accepting. She will love the new you soo much more when she is not the only one responsible. Honest! This is a really important concept. As long as you are dependant on her for your CDing you are only partly rewarding yourself. And I am willing to bet she will be more than willing to participate more when it's not so much WORK for her. Yes WORK. How can you expect her to do all the work relating to your desires to CD? The way you have it set up now, she has to take care of herself plus take care of you! That's just like having her wax the car so YOU can enjoy it. Not fair, Dannielle.

Ok, I am going to go make some tea. I hope I have given you some things to think about, Dannielle.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[Lisa Maren]

Apologies if I've repeated anything, but I have to leave, so no time for searching.

How much is required? You might think of it this way:

Your husband could probably go out to movies by himself, but it's much more enjoyable when you're there because he'd rather be spending the time with you instead of spending it alone. This doesn't specify an amount of time to spend with him while he's en femme, because the idea is simply the more, the better. This is something that should be discussed of course.

There would be one difference between movie and crossdressing. If you can't make it out to a movie with him, that's scheduling or being sick (meaning flu or something) or needing space, all normal things. If you can't spend some time crossdressing with him, it feels like a rejection of an important part of him. He might also feel that, if it were ever to come down to choosing him or the rest of society (including your friends and family), you'd choose the rest of society. If he's feeling that, too, it would feel scary and painful, no matter how understanding he might be.

GGs with crossdressing SOs are in a very difficult position. Many times, they're not told until after they've entered into a romantic commitment and in some cases they're even lied to about it. On top of that, they probably must face a lot of societal disapproval for something they're not even doing, perhaps even from family and friends.

This is why he is so glad to have you in his life. I'm sure that he understands these things. I'm sure he'd be happy to do his best to give you the time you need to adjust, as long as you understand where he's coming from. Just keep up the communication and take it a step at a time.

Hugs,
Lisa