Battle of the Sexes

[Kimberley]

Hi Guys (and girls too)
While doing some reading today (a dissertation on feminism) a thought occured that there is this continual battle of the sexes. So, I wondered how people view it; who has "the power", when and how is it or should it be used? I realize that circumstance may alter things specifically but in general terms, I think the POV of everyone F2M, M2F and the SO's is pertinent. (I say SO rather than GG, because everyone should have input.)

I have to wonder if your general feeling in this somehow is a factor in your being transgendered. If so how do you feel it affects you?

[Kimberley]

Okay, I will go first.

It is my opinion that women have the upper hand albeit quietly. I feel they can often bend males to their will at least in part.

As for effect on me personally, I dont think it has really made a difference in being TG. I still feel I can be swayed. On the other hand, I am also a proponent of feminism (nonmilitant). I believe that women in general have been shut out of the larger world although I also believe that is changing.

:hugs:
Kimberley

[CaptLex]

On a one-to-one basis I've seen relationships where the woman definitely has the "power", but generally speaking I think it's still a man's world and women are still treated as second class citizens - although much progress has definitely been made in the last half century (a short time considering how long the inequality has been going on).


I have to wonder if your general feeling in this somehow is a factor in your being transgendered. If so how do you feel it affects you?

I never thought about that. I don't see how it might be a factor for me. How it affects me? I can't see that it does either. I feel that I can see both sides at the same time and understand both points of view (for the most part), so I sympathize and relate to what both men and women tell me. I wish I could impart that gift to everyone in effort to balance things out, but I think that would make everyone TG. Nothing really wrong with that, though, is it? ;)

[Sierra Evon]

I agree , I think that its still very much a mans world out there, but I side on the side of womens libbers, I have for long time , I dont really hate all men , but , I think that a vast majority of them are all a bunch of jerks , and mistreat women when not in public view, ........VIVA womens rights....:thumbsup:

[Tree GG]

I believe social status has a direct correlation. The more wealthy/powerful a couple is, the less influence the female has because the male is less willing to surrender any of the power (the "good ol' boy" club is alive and well). Look at the percentage of minorities in nationally held public offices, major corporation boardrooms, etc.

The lower in status/income a family, the more influence power may be weilded by the female partner as their participation/contribution is a larger percentage of household income.

[RevMoonSerpent]

Good point Tree,
I personally think that it is still mostly a mans world.
From personal experience and observation it is only the pretty woman that gets what she wants. There are better women's rights and I'm not saying every woman that has any type of power or control fits into the gorgeous stereotype but, more often than not to me it seems to be the case.
As to if it has influenced my being TG, I don't think it has. I have felt this way since I was about 4 years old. At that point I didn't even know anything outside of my own back yard and play time.

[bi_weird]

From where I stand the facts are pretty sure and pretty bleak. As a female (at least for now...) going into research probably at a university, I know that I'll be subject to everything from less pay than my male counterparts to fewer square feet of lab space, according to statistics. While women have gained an amazing amount of power in the last hundred years, it still hasn't come near to equal. We still raise our girls to be pretty and our boys to be strong, and that comes into every interaction between men and women.
One anecdote that highlights the gender bias still strong today. I was talking with a close male friend whom I care for and respect greatly and he feels the same for me. We were discussing what we'll do with our careers when we have children, and I mentioned that I was hopeful that if I married a man he'd be open to staying home with the kids. My friend talked around it for a while, but eventually bluntly stated that he wouldn't respect a man as much who would stay home while his wife worked, even if that was what was best for the family involved.
I would say my view as a TG just means I'm all the more angry at the box women get put in, because I can't get anyone to let me leave that box no matter how much I talk around it or dress around it. It's unfortunate, but I've gotten to the point where I don't expect a man to respect me.

[Kate Simmons]

In my world there are pretty girls and good looking guys regardless of gender makeup. Everyone respects everyone else and is equal as far as opportunity. There is no power trip on either end and the energies are perfectly balanced. A "dream world" you say? Maybe yes, maybe no. We are only limited by our imagination. I see the beginnings of such a world right here, right now. We're gifted in that respect. How we use our gifts is up to us. We create our own destiny and it's all about choice and the potential freedom it can bring. We need only to look inside ourselves for the answer and we are looking......................:happy: Ericka

[Kimberley]

Hi Bi! Good to see you still floating around even if infrequently. I know the workload at school is heavy duty.

For what it's worth, I was a househusband to my kids when they were young. I loved it even though it was a lot more work than going out everyday. I wouldnt have traded that experience for anything. My bet is that Day Tripper would concur with this.

Today, a lot of couples are doing this, particularly in the higher income brackets where 2 incomes arent as necessary.

Anyway, after graduating, you will be in an entry level position. Time, dedication and perserverence will bring in better status and money. Research assistants are terribly undervalued in my opinion, but stick it out. :happy:

:hugs:
Kimberley

[Calliope]

Despite its various hijinks, capitalism cannot entirely commodify the child-bearing and raising imperative - so a domestic economy lingers stubbornly outside its reach. There's one battle right there - perhaps a timeless one.

I think I stand inside that tension - my SO wants to be the wage-earner and the full-time mother, and, frustrated in that aim, she resents my child-raising role (and ability) ... which became the flashpoint of my TG awareness.

How any of the above flies with the FtM experience is beyond me. Apologies if my little rap seems off topic.

[ubokvt]

We still raise our girls to be pretty and our boys to be strong, and that comes into every interaction between men and women by Bi Wierd

Its a mans world we raise the boys to control/power and girls to accept it. It is so ingrained into our society we are not even aware how deep this runs and how hamstringed we are to change it. We give lip service to changing things, "give" more rights, attend rallies, then go home tell jonnie how cute she looks and John how strong he's getting and everyone (mom dad and kids)smiles and feels safe everything is right with the world.

How does TG effect my perception, sorry very little because I'm married to an active feminist. After being married about 2 years she asked for more space (control, power, ownership) in the relationship. My response was huh you've got tons of it. After one year of working on it I could see how unconsiously I controled the relationship and the behaviors I used to stay that way. I was impressed with my insight. After 3 years of work I realized I hadn' t even started to see how ingrained it was. And how being my normal every day self just ran over everyone and they accepted it with out a thought.

But That was my side. I stepped back as best I could and tiried to giver her more. She didn't have a clue how, none of it felt right to her. she at times didn't feel right about herself, roles were now terribly confusing. She felt bad/unworthy to claim what was hers. As she took more ownership of what was hers, I hate the word power it shapes this discussion with all the male values we hang on it, ownership is more netral, she could see changes in how she appoched me, she felt more comfortable with herself about it, but still wondered if it was appropriate. She can see her self becoming????but does have the laguage?word to describe it to others. The very language we use to describe things draws her back to the old modles of male female. Sorry for this it has been a central journey of my life for the last 6 years.

[Kimberley]

UBOKVT, unlike your case, mine did step up and she did grab the bull by the horns. Initially, she went overboard but after a period of time (about a year) she began to become more centrist which was very welcome. This was about 10 years ago.

Today, it is still a "battle" in that I am often the one to acquiesce in most cases, but when I do take a stand, it is very solid and it does cause some serious discussion. In most day to day routines, things are really not that important in my opinion, but when we do encounter something major, it is definitely a joint decision.

Even with all of this, there are still times when she just wants me to make a decision for the both of us. I am truly not comfortable with that but will do it if for no other reason than to make a decision...

And the battle continues.....

:hugs:
Kimberley

[Charleen]

To start, yes there is still alot of inequity. Great strides have been and still are being made though. 3 out of 4 of he bosses I'ved had in the last few years have been female including my present one who owns the company. I don't care. It's interesting when guys selling stuff come into the museum and ask if I'm the owner, and I'll tell them no, but I'll see if she's available. Some get a puzzled look on their face for a sec, then catch themselves. 'Tis the world in which we live.
Personally, through my 30 years of marriage, I always said "Yes Dear" 98% of the time. Our roles where always reversed according to the "norm". She was the more masculine, and even though I looked rugged I was the more femme. She always made more money then me, made most of the decisions, ect., while I did most of the house work, raised the boy et al. We never discussed it. Lily was in hiding, but there. It was just the way things were, and we were happy like that. I never, or to be honest, almost never felt the need to be "The man of the house".
As we get farther away from the Victorian era, things are changing. Gotta admit those Victorians screwed up alot of stuff. But at least society, at least Western society, is making progress however little it may seem. Especially when it comes to us. Boy, do we need more progress there! I can see it coming eventually though in time as people start shedding there ignorance and rebel against the pablum they have been fed about how things are "supposed to be". Love and xxxx, Lily