Whats in a name

[ubokvt]

I recently posted a thread asking for advice on my SO questioning why I shaved. A memeber advised me to ask her why she didn't. Weellll, I was shaving again when my so walked in. She struck a somewhat contemptuous pose and Said "Shaving again I see, Why?" In a stroke of brilliance I smartly replied, based on this forums sound advice. "Why don't you?" (some day I'll Learn)

What followed was a 15 miniute feminist disertaion (rant) on patriarchy forcing a warped male version of beauty on women. It was quite informative and I dutifuly listened. It ended with an interesting question. Since I seemed to enjoy experience the feminien would I be willing to take her name.

So if you were 24/7 en fem would you be willing to give up your family name and take hers. "Why?" GGs feel free to jump in with you take on what would be appropriate.

[Calliope]

[...] I smartly replied, based on this forums sound advice. "Why don't you?" (some day I'll Learn) What followed was a 15 miniute feminist disertaion (rant) on patriarchy forcing a warped male version of beauty on women.

You seem to imply you are adopting the fem because she has failed to.

Such an approach with your mate is sure to cause grief for all.

That 'rant' might do you some good, so listen up.

[Michellebej]

I'm not in agreement with Day.

If your wife is not feminine and you are, what is the big deal?

As for men defining womens fashions or ideas on beauty, I could not agree less.

I don't think that the editors of any of the fashion magazines are staffed by Stoggie smoking men that spend days, weeks and years, telling women what to wear. Or; women would be wearing mini-skirts, pumps, and deeeeep necklines.

Come on, Women decide what is fashionable,and what is not.

As for taking a womans name, been there done that. Sure helped with life in stealth mode! Easy to remember. Dont' have to worry about someone finding your name somewhere and making a connection.

Have fun, go slow, and grow.

Love

Michelle

[Marla S]

Come on, Women decide what is fashionable,and what is not.



Fashion and beauty industry is predominantly ruled by men (Designers and managers).
How many female fashion designers do you know ?
And though we are told that we are free to buy what we want, we have to buy what they offer.

The question is if this has anyhing to do with patriarchy.
Women buy and wear this stuff. You can interpret this in two ways: Either they are a bit limited or they like to play the game. (Fashion and beauty is a game, with some excesses though)

[Kate Simmons]

Except for geneology and family history, adopting a last name one way ot the other seems like a personal choice to me. When folks become married, it is simply a means of identification. As a man,I didn't feel it was imperitive for my wife to take my last name, it was only the custom. That was my attitude anyway. The way names are important in my opinion is the "name" or reputation you make for yourself as a person. That kind of "name" identifies what kind of person you are. You become well known for your qualities and when your given name is mentioned, that's the picture someone has in their mind.:happy: Ericka Kay

[Michellebej]

Marla,

I take the point, without researching, that there are many men in the fashion and beauty game. I think though that if the women "in the right circles" did not like the fashion or cosmetics or jewelry that were being presented to them that those things would not be accepted. Just because a designer designs does not mean that it will be accepted. I imagine fashion is a very competitive industry and that they all try to capture the interest of those women who are the role models for the rest of us.

I also question whether the men who are designers and such are the ones that would be accepted into the "halls of the Patriarchy" (i.e. the femininst version of 'the man'.?)

Does fashion not run the gaumut from torn jeans to sequined gowns?

Do we not have a wide range of taste and options?

And; yes, the only person I ever knew who was on the cutting edge, albeit locally, of the cosmetics trade; was a man.

Love

Michelle

[StephanieCD]

Everyone is an individual. Now, if your SO chooses not to shave - which is against the norm for women, it's as justified as you choosing to shave - which is not the norm for men. She has the right to choose as much as you do.

Now, that said - all's fine in principal but I'm guessing her concern with your reasons for shaving lie somewhere in the root of why she doesn't. She chooses not to shave because of the societal pressures to beautify and meet a standard that was set up long ago - that women should be smooth - when, in actuality, we're all kinda hairy. She chooses to be natural and be comfortable (in comfort is beauty). Now, she goes against the grain and must have strong beliefs to do so. That brings us to you - someone, like myself, who chooses to shave because it DOES jive with the societal pressures for beauty. BECAUSE of those standards set up by men long ago we have certain images in our mind of what femininity is and we strive to emulate it. When, in reality, we're actually emulating an ideal that is forced down women's throats every day. They resent it and we strive for it. If we really wanted to emulate natural women, we wouldn't shave. We'd be hairy and sit around in baggy sweatpants. But we don't - we idolize that standard.

I imagine her asking "why" is an attempt to get you to say "because it's pretty" so she can tear your head off with anger at the societal norm - either that or to get you to admit you wish she shaved... thus lumping you in with the rest of society's men. My suggestion is that you take an approach of admitting there is a distinct and unfair pressure on women to do certain things. Discuss why those are the things you want to do and make it very damned clear that you accept her as she it - as much as you want her to do the same for you.

That's at least a beginning! :)

[Marla S]

Michellebej,

I admit my post is a bit equivocal. In general I agree with you.

IMO the mentioned relation of fashion and patriarchy is a bogus.

The right answer to the question "Why don't you" would have been: "Because I don't like it". I think non-shaved legs are inapplicable as political statement.

On topic:

I would have to bury some taditional thoughs ... having some training as CD ... but why not ?

[Sharon]

Just as your wife is fighting against social norms by not shaving, you are also taking a stand by shaving. You too are fighting the warped male version of beauty. :D

Meantime, I would not attempt to antagonize your wife again, or at least come up with something a little less confrontational.

[thea]

So if you were 24/7 en fem would you be willing to give up your family name and take hers.

Unless you want to hear another rant, you might revise your question. Taking the spouse's name has nothing to do with being 24/7 en femme. It's a feminist choice--if you're going to have a family with the same last name, whose will it be, or will it be a combination of the two, or will you keep your own names after all, or will you swap last names. See all the options? There's no reason except staid patriarchal tradition for spouse and children to take the name of the male.

I would be h appy to consider other options were I to be in a marriageable situation. But I think I'll be single forever and that won't come up.