Discrimination

[Delila]

Ok so something has been driving me crazy. A crossdresser came in for an interview the other day at my work. Everyone around the office thought that she would be a good fit well qualified and everything. Well today one of the hiring managers comes in and I hear him wisper to another supervisor "we can't hire this person" when my boss asks why he says they aren't the kind of person we want working here. I really want to say something because this situation really disgusts me but I really need this job what do you all think?

[Calliope]

Ask yourself if the shoe was on the other foot.

Today, not tomorrow, is the time to ~

Change the world (for the better).


But tomorrow will do.

[Bobbi Lynn]

How do you or anyone else know this person is a cross dresser??

[Delila]

She was dressed up long hair womens jeans and top. Not particularly dressed in drab.

[Jennaie]

This is nothing more than a survival situation. You need your job.

I know that sounds a bit crude but I'm telling you this simply because I lost my job yesterday. I have a very strong support group who has offered me anything I need. I am not worried about a place to live or money, but I still have that lost feeling that we all get when we are out of work.

[Jesse69]

Keep us posted to what happens!

I've lost all the jobs where they found out I was a crossdresser. Don't out yourself!

[carla smith]

I assume that the "they" is crossdressers. Do you know this is for sure? To overhear something is usually not enough to make a judgement. The reference could have been "They" meaning....felons or convicted molestors or anything. You assumed that they were talking about crossdressing. I think it would be wise for you to make sure before you voice your disapproval!

On the other hand, if you are correct....then you could put a note in the suggestion box! "Hire people based on their qualifications" Just because someone is pretty should not disqualify them from getting a job!

[Kenix]

I don't know what the job is for but I would not wear jeans to an interview if it is a office job.

Having said that there is really nothing you can say. The hiring manager can simply say that person is not qualified. :(

[Debra Lynn]

It would be smart to find out what the objections to hiring this person are. If you are not in the hiring loop, what you think won't matter. Having said that, if you are on good terms with your boss, you might remind him that discrimination in employment, is not a charge the company may want to deal with. While this is blatant discrimination in my opinion (which is all this is), unless the person who made this statement get's specific (as to "They), then it would be a hard road to prove. If you have a good relationship with your boss, feel him out to find out more.

[JulieCDorlando]

Hello,
Depending on what the job was that she was applying for? would the job require her to be in contact with customers etc? The public isnt ready to deal with a transgendered person on a non intrusive manner, much less dealing with a TG in a personal up close sort of way. What were the qualifications for that particular job? If she was under qualified then I can see the reasoning of your boss. however is she possesed at the very least minimum qualifications, andyour boss disqualified her for being TG he could be discriminatory. I believe that would be hard to prove if you went over your bosses head. Not to mention that perhaps you might be outted, or even be terminated for your actions. If you could relay a message to the HR dept annonymusly, informming them of this decision, maybe the harm can be undone. Personally, as sad as this is, I would not get involved if you are not involved with the hiring process.

[Delila]

the job does not have personal contact with customers. I am good friends with one of the people on the hiring loop and he told me that what I thought I heard was exactly correct. They are going to try to claim that she was not qualified in order to get away with this. She took a test and scored higher than most of us that work here currently. That is really what bugs me she could have been a very qualified coworker which would make everyones life a little easier. We are a somewhat small company I cant say too much due to the fact that they could be in very big trouble but there is no question that this was about her being a crossdresser and we have no hr. I guess I just have to bite the bullet and deal but it really does bug the crap out of me.

[Felicity]

The bottom line is that a business should be able to set whatever criteria they want for hiring. What they are doing might ethically be wrong, but the hiring manager may be feeling they are doing the right thing. This is different than a skin color issue because we can blend in with other people, where as it is pretty difficult to hide your skin color.

Personally, I would not dress for any job other than what I though would be the right attire. Any of us crossdressers should consider how our actions affect others. What would be wrong with dressing in the proper male attire for a job? The only exception I would consider past this is one who is doing the required 24/7 female attire prior to SRS. Still, nobody should be able to tell an employer how to run their business beyond sensible safety regulations and the likes.

How do such laws read anyway? I am not familiar with them. I might do some research, but at the moment, I am in the dark to such an example.

[Melinda G]

I say this as a lifelong crossdresser. If you need a job, and you want the job, and you are a guy, then dress as a guy when you apply for the job, and leave the crossdressing at home. Most of us don't understand what we do, so how can we expect others to understand and accept it.
Discrimination exists. It's wrong, but employers have many ways to get around it. I would much rather enjoy my crossdressing in private, or outside the workplace, than spend my life crusading and demanding acceptance and losing. The fewer people you come out to, the better off you will be.

[carla smith]

"With limited exceptions, the following actions constitute a violation the Human Rights Act:"

"In Employment...
...when, because of race, color, creed, religion, national origin, sex, marital status, sexual orientation, status with regard to public assistance, disability or age:"

Good law! The problem is getting it litigated....

[Teresa Amina]

And there you are, no different except maybe not quite ready to do the same. Don't beat yourself up over it! Gawd, I can't imagine going to a job interview in Teresa-mode, but I sure admire anyone who is so sure of themselves to do something like that. Management does such things because they are scared; of higher-ups, stockholders, the "market", whomever. As people they may be as welcoming as you or I but look out for number 1. Sad world, ain't it?

[Calliope]

Personally, I would not dress for any job other than what I though would be the right attire. Any of us crossdressers should consider how our actions affect others. What would be wrong with dressing in the proper male attire for a job?


I say this as a lifelong crossdresser. If you need a job, and you want the job, and you are a guy, then dress as a guy when you apply for the job, and leave the crossdressing at home. [...] The fewer people you come out to, the better off you will be.

I think it should be pretty obvious the person in question is a transitioning TG, dressing as she must.

She deserves any possible support because she is fighting your fight.

Alone, seemingly.

[Delila]

I really wish that I could support her at least one of my coworkers agrees that this is an outrage. If I come on too strongly about this they could fire me I support my family I cant take the chance of losing my job. I know I am probably making excuses she is one of the bravest people I have ever met and I think she deserves the same respect as any woman applying for a job.

[Shelly Preston]

I think he only comment you can make to your friend who is in the hiring loop.

It would be a pity if we miss out on a person who has the right skills for the job

[tekla west]

If they are the right person for the job, then hire them. The rest does not matter. Will she help you make money (and I bet she will), then go for it.

Aside from that, if you will not stand up for her, who will? If you will not stand up for her, how in the name of anything holy can you in any morals or ethics even think anyone else should ever stand up for you?

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemöller

And in this deal, baby, oy vie, you are the jew.

And Felicity is wrong about "The bottom line is that a business should be able to set whatever criteria they want for hiring" and not just because there are non-discrimination laws on the books that are for the good of the nation, but because the company has a legal responsibility to promote the fiduciary growth of the fiscal entity. Any manager who would let his personal opinions interfere with the best person for the job in that job should be fired at once. Not to mention one who would expose the company to legal complaints.

[veronicagirl]

I wouldn't CD for a job interview. Yes, it's "wrong" to be denied a job over what clothes you wear. But, at present, it's a part of life and we all know this. When YOU own the company, YOU can hire whom you want. Until then..... The owner of the company can say, "There's no I in team. The only I is what I tell you to do"

[Delila]

I know that your right kat but can you honestly say that if you were in the same position you would give up your own well being (or in my position to pay the rent and food) to stand up for a belief that many disagree with and most keep in hiding. I feel pretty terrible about my failure to be a strong woman and stand up for my fellow TG but I just cant do it.

[sterling12]

Megan:

I know it's not the "High Road", but as you say making an issue in this case might endanger your job and effect other persons in your family, who are not directly involved.

So, this might seem a little sneaky but since you have ascertained that your management types haven't been ethical, here's a compromise scenario which might be somewhat helpful.

If you can, get this person's name and try to contact her anonymously. Just write a note, or make a phone call from a phone booth. Let her know that she might have grounds for a discrimination lawsuit and that she might want to start asking some tough questions about this.

Yes, it's not an ideal situation. And yes, you might cost your company a lot of money, but stuff like this needs to get addressed. If we don't start to be pro-active and trying to effect some of our outcomes, then maybe The CD Community will get exactly what it has earned with non-involvement, which is a whole lot of nothin' and the back of somebody's hand!

Personally, I'm getting tired of being a second-class citizen. I don't want sympathy, I just don't want discrimination and bad treatment. If this person is the best qualified and they "jobbed" her because she is TG, that deserves a response! I think you might feel a lot better, if you could do something about that.

peace and love, Joanie

[tekla west]

Well I have, and for the above reasons. That is was the right thing for the company to do. In terms of the law. In terms of money. That it was the right thing overall, well, that's just a bonus.

I have had six secretaries in my life. I fought hard to get the gay guy hired when the others did not want him. Turned out, he was worth the other five, five times over. Best secretary ever.

[JenniferMint]

If the crossdresser is a much better candidate for the job than all the other applicants, then I think they'd be stupid not to hire her, and everyone should tell them that. "You mean to say you aren't going to hire her just because you have a personal problem with it? You want us to lose money because of your personal unimportant ideas?"

If, on the other hand, there's another really good candidate who isn't a crossdresser, it would be harder to argue for hiring the crossdresser.

[MarinaTwelve200]

This might not sound very nice, but IMHO, a person who is an obvious CD in a business situation where they may have to meet with clients and associate with other workers, does NOT demonstrate "good judgement".

All Cders know that that CDing can make a LOT of people very "uncomfortable" to say the least. This can result in lost business and friction and hostility in the workplace. Buisnesses are not in business to upset people or make social statements. Anyone who would deliberately and inapropriatley upset people (even for the right reasons) is not using their common sense, and hence would be disqualified for THAT reason alone---CD or not.

I do, however see no reason for NOT hiring a CDer who is discreet about it--either as a "secret hobby" done on their own time, or being 100% "passible" at the work place.

[Penny]

Let it go! We all make choices. Her's was apparantly to dress full time and that certainly will foster discrimination. If your's is to keep your job, let it go.


:hugs:

Penny

[Carroll]

looks like a Kobayashi Maru (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobayashi_Maru)

[marie354]

Whether she's had her SRS or still transforming, it's still discrimination!

[MsJanessa]

Ok so something has been driving me crazy. A crossdresser came in for an interview the other day at my work. Everyone around the office thought that she would be a good fit well qualified and everything. Well today one of the hiring managers comes in and I hear him wisper to another supervisor "we can't hire this person" when my boss asks why he says they aren't the kind of person we want working here. I really want to say something because this situation really disgusts me but I really need this job what do you all think?

your profile didn't say which state you are in---many states have laws which outlaw discrimination not only based on sexual orientation but also discrimination based on gender expression(Maine has such a statute)---if you do get up the courage to confront your boss about this you might want to remind him or her that there may be such a statute where you live.

[Peggy55]

Go to your HR rep at work. You don't have to disclose yourself merely state that you overheard discriminatory comments coming from a particular individual and don't think it is right. It could have been anyone, not just a crossdresser they were talking about. So this is a broader scope issue that could potentially get your company in trouble. You're just looking out for the company....yadda yadda yadda.....

Peggy

[Peggy55]

California has such a law..........



your profile didn't say which state you are in---many states have laws which outlaw discrimination not only based on sexual orientation but also discrimination based on gender expression(Maine has such a statute)---if you do get up the courage to confront your boss about this you might want to remind him or her that there may be such a statute where you live.

[Calliope]

If we don't start to be pro-active and trying to effect some of our outcomes, then maybe The CD Community will get exactly what it has earned with non-involvement, which is a whole lot of nothin' and the back of somebody's hand!


Dig it, bigtime!

Think about it, people. We meet here on this forum because we crave community which validates our existence.

From there, we advocate throwing our own to the lions?

Expressing indifference in public just don't make sense.

[StayceeCD]

If she was a CD, then maybe not a good idea to dress for an interview. However if she is transitioning then she HAS to live as a female!
Is there any way you could try and educate those responsible without jeapordizing your own situation? IE. My brother in law / cousin / friend is a crossdresser or transsexual and try to explain what the reality of it is? Maybe send them a link to a website.
http://www.geocities.com/senorita_cd/menu.htm
This one has alot of great info on it. I totally understand that you can't put yourself in a situation where you could lose you ability to provide for your family, but if you're able to educate just one person about what CDing really is, whether or not she gets the job, you'll feel better about it! :2c:

[KateLongman27]

looks like a Kobayashi Maru (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobayashi_Maru)


Sounds like someones a Strar Trek fan, alternatively you could cheat and use the grapevine and casually ask what happened to the other canidates.

[JenniferR771]

Above girl was right. Get a note to him. Tell him/her to see a lawyer. Also to write to the state attorney general. And call state equal employment agency. Get the Attorney General to phone the company president. And...take a careful look through your employee handbook. Does it cover this situation? Is he gay? There are more laws that protect gays than CD or TS. There are plenty of good gay lawyers. But it would be better if action were taken before someone else were hired.

[JenniferR771]

Erica--local lawyer--what do you think--any free advice or referrals?

[carla smith]

the company has a legal responsibility to promote the fiduciary growth of the fiscal entity."

"Fiduciary growth" Don't know what state that is from...maybe former USSR.

"What happens if we loose money in the forth quarter".....ok who is going to jail for this one"!....not! Companies go broke by the hundreds, but rarely do the CEO's go to jail unless the stockholders can prove fraud!

Discrimination, of all types, is a problem that is common in corporate and government offices. (Hope everyone can believe that)

I did not look the other way, and I ended up settling out of court, because the expense was going to cost me everything I had....and the opposition knew it! Even though I had a paper trail, and could prove what they did. I could not afford to get it into court; the cost would have been in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. That is the reality of our legal system. (Hope you can believe that, too)

That was not fun!

Now, I am a crossdresser having fun out there!

[Kendra Irene]

Sounds like the hiring proceedures I've seen many times. The best qualified do not nessesarily fit HR's and Managements idea of what type of person they see in the job. Remember, they don't have give a reason why they didn't hire that person, as they are from outside of the company.

[tekla west]

In plain english, which the law never is - it means that a company has a legal obligation to make money for its stockholders, period - no more, no less. Hardly a USSR deal, that is pure greed at the point where the rubber hits the road.

Hence, doing anything that would place the company in a posistion to make less money, or to lose money, is actionable in a court. Which is why shareholders sue boards of directors and the like so often.

[Christina Nicole]

"With limited exceptions, the following actions constitute a violation the Human Rights Act:"

"In Employment...
...when, because of race, color, creed, religion, national origin, sex, marital status, sexual orientation, status with regard to public assistance, disability or age:"

Good law! The problem is getting it litigated....
That was never passed into law and it is very that it will ever be passed in the form it was last presented. Therefore since it is not law, one cannot litigate on the basis of said law.

Let the issue go. It will do you no good to argue this issue. Your first responsibility is to your family, not to a stranger or some group affiliation. You also have a responsibility to your employer. If you know that they are doing something illegal, then it is proper to inform someone in management that they may have some legal exposure on this issue, but if you do that, you must first know the details and be able to recite them and the relevant law chapter and verse. Sounds like a losing proposition to you, in my opinion, unless you have a legal or human resources background.

The person in question probably was not serious about the job. No one who wants a job enough interviews in jeans and a top. Even if the person is a transitioning TS, she should have known enough to wear a presentable suit. Every advice guide always lists appearance, dress, and presentation as some of their top recommendations.

Warm regards,
Christina Nicole

[AprilMae]

Unless you know all the facts about the person: are they transitioning, what are their qualifications, what their background is, etc, mind you business. If the person is not in an actual transition, a man dressed as a woman can be considered inappropriate, just as if he wore a dirty t shirt and ripped jeans to an interview. Or perhaps he expressed some sort of political or social view that is objectionable to the company, or just plain had the wrong attitude.

[Joy Carter]

"With limited exceptions, the following actions constitute a violation the Human Rights Act:"

"In Employment...
...when, because of race, color, creed, religion, national origin, sex, marital status, sexual orientation, status with regard to public assistance, disability or age:"

Good law! The problem is getting it litigated....

This person is reported to have signs of gender variations due to their manor of dress. Do we know this person was gay ? If no then where does the discrimination come it ? I can tell you there is no law covering cross gender in Ohio as of 2004. And the federal government does not either as of 2004. The thing about discrimination laws are that they only cover certain types of discrimination. And being cross gendered is not one of them. On the other hand what Felicity said about the bottom line. A business employs people as long as it's profitable. How would you feel as a business owner if you lost business because an employee didn't take baths ? Maybe that person making the comment was saying, even if this person was the best at what they were hiring for. How could they take the chance that customers would do business with them employing that cross gendered person. And would that person be a distraction in the work place ? I'm all for hiring the best what ever for the job. But then we all don't think alike do we ? So you can tell your lawyer to pick up his briefs and chase an ambulance.

[carla smith]

Most states have human rights laws...such as the one I quoted.

You should be aware of the laws in your jurisdiction.

Here is some info from the great state of Washington

Governor Chris Gregoire signed ESHB 2661 into law after the 2006 Legislative session making nondiscrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, including gender identity, the law in Washington State. The new law became effective as of June 7, 2006. The Washington State Human Rights Commission (WSHRC) views this new jurisdiction as a natural extension of civil rights.

Here you will find some of the guidelines that are recommended to managers

http://www.hum.wa.gov/generalInfo/links.htm
click on sexual orientation on the left side of the screen

scroll down to Transgender Issues in the Work Place (.pdf)

[melissaK]

Gosh i love you girls. You stay on a subject until it is fully detailed!

My 2 cents:

Cent 1) unless you know your state law on hiring TG persons, you have no evidence of a civil law violation. And with civil law violations it is up to the victim to cure the transgression by bringing a lawsuit; and,

Cent 2) there are a lot of assumptions about this applicant being a victim. Showing up in womens clothes may be the applicants way of testing her prospective employer. I seriously doubt she is any less savy a CD than the girls on this board - and maybe she really wants to work where she'll be accepted - and what better way to find out than to show up as who you are. She might turn this job down even if the employer was compelled to offer it to her.

OK, I promised I'd stop at two cents . . .

[Kimberley]

You need to put YOUR priorities in place first. If they can be met while challenging the status quo then fine. (ie. you can afford to lose your job.)

After that all you can do is ask a few questions that will cause a few brain cells to cluster and hope for the best.

It isnt fair, I agree but the fight for the job is hers, not yours. I know it sounds cruel but it is also life. Ideally she should have applied enhomme then after she was WELL established perhaps made the motions to coming out if the work conditions were accepting.

:hugs:
Kimberley

[MJ]

you have to stand for something, or you will fall for anything. it is not fair this person needs a job why not give her a try...
in the new year i am looking for a new job as marissa. i am not looking forward to it. i would rather go through a sex change without the anesthetic.. then deal with employers who just don't understand

[melissaK]

MJ, Seriously, we all know what you'll be up against. There are some good folks out there - you will find a place. You'll no doubt have some interesting insights to share, so check back and let the boards know how it goes.

[tekla west]

If not us, then who? If not now, then when? Dr. King would remind us that "wait means never."

8 states (California, Rhode Island, Washington state. Minn. Ill. Maine, New Mexico and Hawaii) and 84 cities and counties have laws on the books prohibiting discrimination on the basis of gender identity or expression. These laws cover about 1/3 of the population of the USA. All those laws were brought into being by people like us, for people like us. Oh yeah, sure a lot of them are in progressive areas filled with liberals like San Francisco, or Ann Arbor, but hey, Dallas, Texas, Toledo, Ohio and De Kalb, Ill have them too.

Miss Felicitiy's own Moscow on the Willamette (Portland, OR)
has a very stong one.

Go to the site for THE TRANSGENDER LAW AND POLICY INSTITUTE "a non-profit organization dedicated to engaging in effective advocacy for transgender people in our society. The TLPI brings experts and advocates together to work on law and policy initiatives designed to advance transgender equality." They have complete lists of where, and a listing of what they protect and a lot of other helpful information.

[Calliope]

The sad, simple truth of the matter is as longs as most CDs remain in the closet, CDs are not gonna get it together for these important battles.

But, oh, sure, after the fight and the dust settles, they'll all wanna party.

[tekla west]

Well DT, everyone wants to eat the cake, they just don't feel like baking it.

Best thing I've ever done as a TG person was get involved in the Human Rights Comission working on these issues. I met so many girls, in so many situtions, it changed my life in nothing but good ways.

[stephanie100]

This is total discrimination it does not matter weather the person is colored, white, disabled, gay, \cross dresser, TS, or green with red spots it is discrimination and i would remind my boss of that though i would put it a way that sounds like im doing him and the firm a favour saving them and him a lawsuit.:straightface:

[suzy]

:2c:
For whatever it's worth.... I would not get involved..... not my place or my business.:2c:

[tekla west]

Everywhere I've ever worked they seemed to like it when people took an interest in the biz insteed of watching the clock and cashing the checks. Because first and formost the deal is about what is the best policy for the company in terms of making money.

I would have made the argument of "think how grateful this person would be for us giving her a job." My god, we could work her to death (Sorry, DT, the caplitalist pig in me). Think about it, if I would hire you like this I bet I could get twice, no... three times! the amount of work out of you that your current boss is getting, and for less money to boot.

[carla smith]

As I said earlier, I have been wounded by this issue!

I did take a stand, it cost me thousands, no one helped me. I could not even find a layer to represent me. I proved my case to an employment attorney with the documents that were put in my employee file and emails. Yes they were that stupid about it! Only then did I get legal representation. Sure, the attorney was on my side as long as I paid his $400/hr. fee.

There was no one at work that offered to help. I could not get anyone interested a the ACLU because they felt that it was not a broad enough case that would be of interest to them. The human rights commission was interested but that was about it.

I fought this battle alone.

You and I lost because I was offered an amout to keep my mouth shut that made in attorny happy....that was really all he cared about from the beginning. He advised to take the money because he knew that I was out of money....what else could I do!

I did work for my states legislation! You can see the results of it on my earlier post....It was the result of many people not me that made it possible for this legislation to be passed.

Thanks to all that helped I know some of you are here!

Now I have said too much!

Ya, just let it go...do nothing it is a sane thing to do...

While others bleed to make a trail for you....."Have fun out there"!

[Calliope]

Yeh, this topic is getting totally beat to death - good! It shows some conscience-wrestling methinks.

Think of how history has been made - and not been made - by the individual asking, Would I risk my job ? Come on! Every change for the better involved taking at least that risk - and many more.

We're not talking about the rights of pedophiles here, people, we're talking about us !

Sure, it might be easy to say, What does DT know about risking a job, she's just a housewife.

Hey, my SO (the big, bad breadwinner) doesn't want a marriage, all she wants is something resembling one - and every day I wear my skirts, earrings and makeup I am jeapordizing my livelihood.

My 'job' hangs by a thread !

Sure, I'm doing this for me, me, me - and because I'm out contributing even the least bit of something positive to the community in which I live, I'm indirectly helping all those in the closet.

Would I put it on the line for a fellow TG?

How could I refuse?

[MarinaTwelve200]

This is total discrimination it does not matter weather the person is colored, white, disabled, gay, \cross dresser, TS, or green with red spots it is discrimination and i would remind my boss of that though i would put it a way that sounds like im doing him and the firm a favour saving them and him a lawsuit.:straightface:

Well, if the person was not hired solely because they were a CD, there may be an issue here---just like with any other minority. But if a person is showing a propensity to exercise BAD JUDGEMENT in flaunting his status in a way that is not good for business or other company employees, thats another issue entirely.

A parallel might be a handicapped man with one arm., If he is qualified, sure, he should be hired, but if he is also a bitter, ill-mannered lout, that litterally waves his stump in front of the noses of people and upsets them, then he is showing BAD enough Judgement to disqualify him-- disabled or not. The same could be said about any "Different" person who FLAUNTS his differences to the point of offending others. An obvious CD who INSISTS on looking like a fool in public MIGHT fit into this category. (either do it right or do it in private)

People have RIGHTS, but not PRIVILIDGES. fairness works both ways. :hiding:

[tekla west]

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

and looking like a fool in public describes every boss I've ever had on the golf course - which all you management types know, is just an extension of the office by other means.

[Calliope]

An obvious CD who INSISTS on looking like a fool in public MIGHT fit into this category. (either do it right or do it in private)


:nono:

That's the saddest thing I ever read.

[Diana_BiMale_CD]

This may sound funny coming from a confirmed cross dresser, although so far only in private, trying to get up the nerve to go out in public. But in this society to interview for a job you have to be prepared for the interview, and that means, dress, attitude and public acceptable appearance. Until society changes their opinion a person should not expect to get a job if they do not fit that profile. By that I mean you should dress for the job you are interviewing for. A white collar job you don't wear jeans, male or female. A construction job you don't wear a silk suit. I think you get what I mean. I don't think that person really wanted or expected to get the job if his/her appearance was out of the norm. That's life LOL.


Of course if I was the interviewer he would have gotten the job if he/she was qualified, but let's face it we are in the minority, and the majority rules which normally is how it should be.:2c:

[stephanie100]

It is still discrimination at least it would be in the UK dont know about the US. it is not the fact that someone was rejected for their looks but the fact the boss was overheard therefore someone else knows it is discrimination and could be called as a witness if it was found that person knew. but yes i dont adhere to any company code or policy I have one policy mine but then i work for a good boss me.

[MarinaTwelve200]

:nono:

That's the saddest thing I ever read.
:timeout:
Hey wait a minute now---Im not trying to start any thing. There is a DIFFERENCE between not being able to HELP oneself (thats sad) and someone who does it ON PURPOSE----

Thats the whole idea of rights and fairness---dont hold against a person something he has no control over. help him out if need be.

Giving someone a PRIVILIDGE that no one else has, on the other hand, that no one else could get away with, just because he may be different, is a political trick used to divide and exploit.

[racquel]

My opinion would be that it is not your concern.I know you overheard the remark concerning the dress of the candidate but you do not have access to the information about other candidates.
There are many reasons why people get hired,but a lot of people get fired for the simple reason they overstepped their bounds.:eek:
I agree with Penny,leave it alone.:2c:

[Delila]

Good news on this topic...
After signifigant protest on behalf of myself and almost everyone else I work with (all of whom I am positive are not cders) management has decided to change their mind and offer this person a position with our company. From what I can gather they seem to think that if there is such an outpouring of support that this person will fit very well in the company.
Ultimately I guess I just couldnt keep my big mouth shut and to good effect I sort of rallied the troops and they fought for this brave person. Not to sound like I am taking any credit I want to fully credit this brave woman for standing up and saying this is what I am take it or leave it. I guess they had to take it...

[Robin Leigh]

Great news, Megan! :happy: With all that support I'm sure your new co-worker will feel very welcome.

You do realize that you will have to come out to her. :devil:

Keep us posted!

:hugs:

Robin

[Angela E.]

That`s great news.Kudos to you and everyone else who had the guts to get involved.Hope I would do the same for a sister.Love-Angela.:doll: PS You DO have to come out to her.

[Angie G]

Megan that sucks I'd try to tell her and let her do what she may :hugs:
Angie

[tekla west]

Good for you, good for your co-workers, good for you company. And shame, shame, shame on those who thought that it was somehow OK to turn your back, to look the other way, to put yourself first and formost always. Look up "Kitty Genovese" and tell me how far is your response in here, to what happened there.

And I hope you never need any help, or anyone to stand up for you - there is no ethical or moral grounds for you to ever request it.

Again, Merry Christmas to those who stood up and did the right thing. I hope your season, and your lives are blessed. The rest, a lump of coal.

A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Margaret Mead

[occdresser]

Ask your supervisor; What do you mean by "we dont need them kind of people working here". Casually.

[Calliope]

After signifigant protest on behalf of myself and almost everyone else I work with (all of whom I am positive are not cders) management has decided to change their mind and offer this person a position with our company. From what I can gather they seem to think that if there is such an outpouring of support that this person will fit very well in the company.


Wow - that's the best news I've heard since ... well, since ... sunshine and daisies, or something.

Megan, you've earned your right to walk tall, babe.

:c9:

[stephanie100]

well done megan head up girl tall and proud

[sterling12]

I'm also glad that is has worked itself out. In this case no need for a lawsuit, and the company may end up as a better workplace.

It really shows what a few people speaking up and speaking out, can do! I think we all might learn something from this. It is important to make the effort, it is important to sometimes not take the easy way, and speak out.

I have read several historical commentary's that have put forth the idea that in the 1930's, a lot of people in the world knew what the Nazis' stood for, and they knew what Hitler would ultimately try to do. These historians believe that the Nazi's acted upon their plans to make a "final solution" of the Jews because they believed they had an "implicet approval". Since no one or no government spoke out for the Jews, no one made any effort to help them....The Nazi's figured that it was OK to try and annihalate them, no one cared.

Yes I know, this situation does not equate to The Holacost, not trying to imply that. My point is that we should be thinking of these same things when we are challanged to make some kind of a stand. No, you alone can't save the World with your actions, all you can save is part of yourself....the person in the mirror! However, often when we make an effort to save that person in the mirror, we do help others and in turn do change the world.

These are grave times, there seem to be challanges to our personal freedoms at every turn. Maybe it's time for all of us to start "speaking up", about TG issues, about our freedoms, about everything! It sure hasn't been working, doing it the other way.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[susiepaul]

yes i agree that it is wrong to discriminate due to what some one wants to wear but we all have to accept that if we want to work we have to toe the line.

now i am retired i dress the way i like and have no problem i go out as a guy in a skirt/dress any time i want and no one is bothered i dont try to pass as a real girl just a guy in a skirt just now and then i have to let some one new that i meet that i am not guy and not looking for a boyfriend.

whilst i would love for everone to be accepted for what they are i doubt it will ever happen in my life time as there are too few of us ready to go out dressed the way we want for us to be accepted.

when we are all ready to be counted then we will be accepted untill then we have to live by others rules.

regards susie paul
:D
retired to the caribean on my sail boat bear necessities in puerto rico

[Raychel]

I personnally don't think that It was a very good idea to go for the interview crossdressed. If this was a transgender, then it may be a differant situation all together for that person. There may have been a reason in her mind for dressing the way she did for the interview. Whatever the case, I have to say Kudo's to her for making he effort.

Sure there are laws to protect us and there are lawyers to help us. But discrimination still exist. Sure she could probably get a lawyer to work with her on this. But is that anyway to get a job. And anyway if the management is that pigheaded to not see the forest for the trees, then is that any place that she would really want to work anyway. She should keep looking and I am sure that she will find a place to work that is a much better fit for her.

:2c: :rant:

[melissaK]

Megan, you apparantly carry some clout at your work, and you apparantly work with people who despite their own fears will do the right thing! That you chose to work in such a place says a lot about your own good character. I hope the new girl works out, and my wondering mind is thinking about what impact she might have on you . . .

[melissaK]

Megan, your thread has had its corollary at my own office this past two weeks. We had a bru-ha-ha over a junior level six month pregnant woman that a senior ranking employee was lobbying to get canned. Nevada is a right to fire state (euphemistically called right to hire), the Federal anti pregnancy discrimation act doesn't apply to us because we are so small, and there is no legal impediment. Her preganancy was medically troubled and if she was termed she'd have no health insurance (surprise! small employers often can't offer COBRA rights as the insurers don't offer it to them because its not legally required). If termed she'd likely be financially ruined by future medical bills.

Before the boss actually had to decide, another junior co-worker who was appalled that the senior ranking employee would try to get a preganant woman fired, narc'd on the senior employee telling about the senior's chronic drug use, despite knowing everyone would wonder how they knew about it. Recreational drug use is not allowed in the senior's pay grade, and the boss was required to confront the senior employee and request a drug test. The senior employee walked rather than deal with the drug test!

At first I thought it was a case of "karma," or "what goes around comes around," or "people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

But because of your story, I've rethought it. And I see it is also about people setting aside their fears and finding a way to do the right thing.

[JenniferMint]

She probably got pregnant on purpose. She knew that this would negatively impact her ability to do her job.

[Calliope]

She probably got pregnant on purpose. She knew that this would negatively impact her ability to do her job.

Damn, Jennifer, you sound like Rush Limbaugh - don't you have some happy pills or something?

[Noel Chimes]

My wife has informed me that they have one of our sisters working in her office. We went to the company party on Friday and she showed up with a couple of her friends. I was hoping to speak with her but she left before the opportunity presented itself. Even though she works on a phone bank and clients don't meet her in person, I applaud them for giving her a chance to prove that lipstick and high heels don't make a sale, it's the person.
As far as your company, as long as narrow minded knuckle-dragging mentally challenged bigots are running the show, we will still have to hide our personal tastes and desires from the pursute of the almighty dollar.:2c:

[Melanie R]

Before my early retirement as President of a health care company in 2003, I discovered that among my staff were two crossdressers who had been hired to process medical claims. Both did their jobs as expected and dressed like the other women. The chairman of the company found out about these two individuals and advised me to find some reason to fire them. I told him that they do their jobs as expected, are accepted by the other staff in their work area and the board would have to fire me first. The matter was dropped. The chairman later told me that he was impresssed by their work and supported the promotion of one of the CD's to a supervisor's position. Nothing happens unless you are willing to stand up for the rights of everyone and put your neck on the line!

Happy Holidays!

Melanie

[tekla west]

"She probably got pregnant on purpose"

All by herself too.

[Delila]

I know this is an old thread but I thought this would be a good time for update. The girl that I thought would be hired after major protest was shut down by the president of the company. I went straight to my boss and said I didnt think that so and so was really that disriminative. His response was that the president was not discriminating so much as looking out for the best interests of the company. This comment was followed by asking me how he should go about turning this person down for the job. All that I could say was "Very carefully" I feel bad that I could not do more for her but honestly giving up my job would not have changed anything except I would not have a job. Those of you that think I am a coward are probably right... I am just not in a position to make a stand for our rights in that way. If you happen to be reading this I am sorry that I could not do more.

[cemab4y]

Once in 1992, I was working for a firm in Louisville KY (As a consulting engineer, not in personnel). A CD came into the office, dressed in stirrup pants, pumps, sheer top,etc. Day's growth of beard, and talking with a deep husky voice. My supervisor refused to interview the person. I volunteered, so I spoke in private with the interviewee. The person appeared qualified for the position. After the meeting, I told my supervisor, we might be smart to hire this guy, because it is a sales position, and he can sell to a rather unique group of prospects. My supervisor refused.

He then took the applicant's resume, and tore it into pieces, and said "I need to get my office disinfected".

Incidents like these, should warn us all to keep our private lives out of the office.

[Robin Leigh]

I know this is an old thread but I thought this would be a good time for update. The girl that I thought would be hired after major protest was shut down by the president of the company.

If you happen to be reading this I am sorry that I could not do more.
Megan, you weren't totally silent, and to be realistic, you did what you could. Don't feel too bad about it.

:hugs:

Robin

[melissaK]

Dang. I hate it when there's not a happy ending. Now I'm stuck "hoping" it all works out for the better and there is some form of Karmaic justice waiting ahead in time . . .

Sniffles,
'lissa