GG issues

[marie354]

I'm not a GG. Don't want to be. They have too many real problems..... I'm not going to go into it, but we all know.

Most of us just like to look like a GG, and pass for one.... At least in the mirror... Even if we never leave our privacy, and alone-ness. Personally I'd like to be more outwards... Well it's a challange.... Maybe soon, if I get the currage...
But, anyway... Real Girls, well some of them, seem to have a really big problem with us.

I'm sorry about that. But if we want to be free..............

We need to find the ones that can understand.........
We're not a threat. We don't want to leave them to find a man!?!???
Well, At least I don't! And I'm sure a lot of us don't!

The real question here is....... Why can't they understand??????

[Tina Dixon]

Why? You know some times I think I'm a weirdo for dressing up in womens cloths, just thinking what they think, it's going to take some getting used to.

[Calliope]

A couple of sage thoughts expressed this week on these forums are (1) sexism affects both sexes; and (2) most GGs dig a CD, but don't necessary want to marry one.

[JulieCDorlando]

Hello,
I am not sure if what I am about to say is accurate or not, but most GG's especially those that are married to CD's fear that a husband might either desire to alter his gender, become attracted to men, or (and maybe this is the main reason) that if the CD has kept thier CDing hidden for a while during the marriage and suddenly the "bomb" is dropped on them, they are hurt, feel deceived, afraid if other find out and look upon them( the wives) with contempt or other negative thoughts.
A GG that isn't so much attached in any way to a CD she may know merely as an aquaintance, isn't nearly as closed minded, as other GG's. In other words the CDing is ok as long as you are not my husband/boyfriend.
Beside all of the above, GG's are like anyone else in society that isn't open or accepting of our lifestyle. They may see our lifestyle as deviant, immoral, disgusting etc.
Again I hope i got some of the reasons right, but a GG can answer far better and with more accuracy than I ever could.

[Jesse69]

I would have rather been born a beautiful GG model. Otherwise no.

Well, I think GGs feel about CDs the same way we men would feel about having a wife that suddenly wants to dress as a man all the time. I would rather prefer my wife very femme and I hate the butch / lesbian look.

[Marla S]

The real question here is....... Why can't they understand??????

Well, I am with Tina here.
I wish I'd understand. Do you ?

A little brainstroming on what irritates me once in a while.

Female side --> passing, emulating women (Where is the male side ?)

Feel like a woman, I am a woman (Why not transitioning ?)

Switching between the modes (Are we schizophrenic or is it just a role play ?)

Sexual load, Hotty-look (Seems more like a male phantasy !)

Fear that we are gay, or that they have to become lesbain respectively (Homophobia).

And there is the 'real man' thing. (Judge this like you want.)

[Sheila]

As one of the GG's i would like to add my :2c: here



I'm not a GG. Don't want to be. They have too many real problems..... I'm not going to go into it, but we all know

But, anyway... Real Girls, well some of them, seem to have a really big problem with us.

I'm sorry about that. But if we want to be free..............

We need to find the ones that can understand.........
We're not a threat. We don't want to leave them to find a man!?!???
Well, At least I don't! And I'm sure a lot of us don't!

The real question here is....... Why can't they understand??????

Q) "Why can't they understand??????"

A)Some of you yourselves don't understand so if you can't !!!!!!!! but some of us do bl**dy try

"Real girls" ------ I like to think that I consider all the Gurls on here to be real girls---------- perhaps not Genetic Girls but real Girls anyhow

" But if we want to be free We need to find the ones that can understand.........We're not a threat..............."

WE are not stopping you being anything you want --- you are doing that all by yourself --- before you blame society rember you are a member of that club as much as any GG


"We don't want to leave them to find a man!?!???" -------- my Partner is not only a man -------- HE IS THE MAN------- the fact that he has a feminine side makes him no less of a man

[Calliope]

I would rather prefer my wife very femme and I hate the butch / lesbian look.


Remember that if she ever pulls out the boards, hammer and nails.

[Kate Simmons]

We are all who we are genetically, no doubt about that. I prefer to look at it as just people being people who are trying to understand one another. Whatever kinds of "decorations" we use outside somewhat reflects who we are inside. Who we are inside makes all the difference. Working together to understand this goes a long way. Considering this , we are light years ahead of so called "normal" people with respect to understanding already. I've come to know you all and consider it a privalege. Alone we are out there stumbling around, together we can watch out for each other and avoid the pitfalls. It's all about caring, empathy and understanding in my opinion. So, regardless of how we are "classed" or whatever we may call ourselves, let's put ourselves under the "umbrella" of friendship. Seems a lot simpler to me.:happy: Ericka

[Fallen Angel]

As one of the GG's i would like to add my :2c: here




Q) "Why can't they understand??????"

A)Some of you yourselves don't understand so if you can't !!!!!!!! but some of us do bl**dy try

"Real girls" ------ I like to think that I consider all the Gurls on here to be real girls---------- perhaps not Genetic Girls but real Girls anyhow

" But if we want to be free We need to find the ones that can understand.........We're not a threat..............."

WE are not stopping you being anything you want --- you are doing that all by yourself --- before you blame society rember you are a member of that club as much as any GG


"We don't want to leave them to find a man!?!???" -------- my Partner is not only a man -------- HE IS THE MAN------- the fact that he has a feminine side makes him no less of a man

you go girl freind:2c:

[Sandra]

As one of the GG's i would like to add my :2c: here




Q) "Why can't they understand??????"

A)Some of you yourselves don't understand so if you can't !!!!!!!! but some of us do bl**dy try

"Real girls" ------ I like to think that I consider all the Gurls on here to be real girls---------- perhaps not Genetic Girls but real Girls anyhow

" But if we want to be free We need to find the ones that can understand.........We're not a threat..............."

WE are not stopping you being anything you want --- you are doing that all by yourself --- before you blame society rember you are a member of that club as much as any GG


"We don't want to leave them to find a man!?!???" -------- my Partner is not only a man -------- HE IS THE MAN------- the fact that he has a feminine side makes him no less of a man


Nice one Jess :)

When the Cder understand why they do it and can explain more then perhaps the GGs will understand and accept more.

[Penny]

We are all who we are genetically, no doubt about that. I prefer to look at it as just people being people who are trying to understand one another. Whatever kinds of "decorations" we use outside somewhat reflects who we are inside. Who we are inside makes all the difference. Working together to understand this goes a long way. Considering this , we are light years ahead of so called "normal" people with respect to understanding already. I've come to know you all and consider it a privalege. Alone we are out there stumbling around, together we can watch out for each other and avoid the pitfalls. It's all about caring, empathy and understanding in my opinion. So, regardless of how we are "classed" or whatever we may call ourselves, let's put ourselves under the "umbrella" of friendship. Seems a lot simpler to me.:happy: Ericka
Well said Erica

:love:

Penny

[janelle]

Jess, for me it is who i am, plain & simple.
I would also like to thank you for concidering us all as girls, for me that is important. Thanks again & have a wonderful weekend.
:love: Janelle

[marie354]

Quoted by jess(SO)...
We don't want to leave them to find a man!?!???" -------- my Partner is not only a man -------- HE IS THE MAN------- the fact that he has a feminine side makes him no less of a man

My SO loves me too. She's just not sure how to deal with it. I dress as Sam a lot for her as well. After all... She does love *HER* man.

I love all the responses. Thanx
:hugs: :love: :hugs:

[tekla west]

Once upon a time I thought that like policy issues, if you could explain it, in time they might get it.

I was wrong.

Turns out I needed to look to another area of my life - the ten years I spend writing stand-up comedy. After a decade in nightclubs, hanging out with some of the best stand-ups ever, I have never seen anyone who didn't get a joke, upon having it explained to them, who then laughed. If you don't get it on an intrinsic level to begin with, its doubtful to me that you ever will.

Or....

A good friend of mine teaches math - not just like arithmetic, but graduate school mathematics at a science and engineering school. I asked him once how he taught people do to quadratic equations. He told me he didn't. That the people who understood such things 'saw' it right off. Those who did not, never would. You could help those who 'got it' work to the solution, but those who did not 'see' it from the get-go, never would no matter how much you explained it to them. Another pal, drinking buddy really, so nuts we called her "Crazy Laura" to her face, would sit and do these equations for fun, on cocktail napkins, after drinking a bottle of wine (or more). She would sit with others so inclined and too drunk to walk more than a few feet could still sit and pass these things back and forth like they were playing tic-tac-toe.

True enough, I never heard her -or her pals - ever be able to explain what they were doing, only how they were doing it. I asked her once how she learned to do such things and she said she never did. She just saw one and knew how to do it. How old were you Laura? Sixth grade. Gosh in 6th grade I could barely get past long division, and she 'knew' how to solve this stuff?

So perhaps there is no "why" as to being trans, only the "how" of doing it. For all the books I've read on this I've yet to read any real answer as to the why. Perhaps, its not even there, that answer is but an illusion.

However, I do know a lot of people who get it. I know GGs who when I start talking with them about it have an attitude of "of course you do, why wouldn't everyone?" They get it without a why, they seem to understand the 'why' right off. All that is left is the how.

[Marla S]

Once upon a time I thought that like policy issues, if you could explain it, in time they might get it.

I was wrong.
A bit disenchanting, isn't it.
But you might be right.

[melissaK]

I can think up personal examples to support Tekla's theory - I suspect any teacher can. I once had to teach foresters to use airial photos to locate actual places in the forest to perform data collection - I thought I could teach anyone until I met a H&W team - despite strong effort and ample intelligence, they couldn't get it - their minds just didn't convert a flat image into 3d space. I suspect an organic difference in our brains explains that one.

But, I think much of the anti-cd attitude is cultural conditioning, and for my evidence I'd cite the anthropolgists accounts of other cultures having recognized roles, even esteemed roles for TG souls.

So, be enchanted again Marla . . .

[Sheila]

But, I think much of the anti-cd attitude is cultural conditioning, and for my evidence I'd cite the anthropolgists accounts of other cultures having recognized roles, even esteemed roles for TG souls. So, be enchanted again Marla . . .

AHHHHHH but are not CDR's also part of the culture of which we speak?


I'd cite the anthropolgists accounts of other cultures having recognized roles

again I say AHHHHHH but are not CDRS also part of the culture of which we speak? so let your voices be heard loud and clear educate the populace who better to do it than you yourselves, promote enlightenment by being who you really want to be FOR

It is never too late to be what you might have been."
--- George Eliot

[maybeJan]

Some scientists think spatially (and often don't like math), while others go straight to equations.

Jan

[Joyciecd]

It is widely believed that only other women can understand women. Sooo who can expect women to understand CD's? Heck, many CD's can't really understand themselves, as well as other CD's! This is what gives life it's spice!!!!!

[tekla west]

“the anthropolgists accounts of other cultures having recognized roles, even esteemed roles for TG souls”

Such cultures and societies are rare - the exception, not the rule. In the ones I know about they tend to be very isolated in a geographic sense. So that in Native American culture, it happens in the Navaho and Hopi tribes, but not in the tribes of the Algonquin Confederation or in the Five Civilized Tribes to the south.

But beyond that, I have yet to read any account that would begin to explain ‘why’ these cultures or societies had such a variances in them.

And I guess that in the end the constant attempts at explanation get old, make one weary and in the end, are of little use. Sure, we can say its society. I can look to San Francisco where the grrl who runs Trannyshack was the poster girl for “Bike to Work Day.” Or, were drag queens like Donna Sachet appear with regularity on the society page of the paper. I know it was not always like this. And I don’t think its because a bunch of people suddenly understood why. More likely its that “We’re here, we’re queer, get used to it” attitude that the TG population took that more or less forced it to happen.

Nor in the places where TG rights have been enacted into law did that happen because people came to understand why, or because the power to be woke up one morning and said “Gee whiz girls, we seem to have forgotten about you.” Its because we organized, got people elected and then held their feet to the fire.

So perhaps we should spend less time worrying about the “why” and even less explaining it to others - if that can be done. And more time being out, being us, and getting on with it. Or as the old saying goes “F*ck Art! Let’s Dance!”

[kathy gg]

But, anyway... Real Girls, well some of them, seem to have a really big problem with us.

I'm sorry about that. But if we want to be free..............

We need to find the ones that can understand.........
We're not a threat. We don't want to leave them to find a man!?!???
Well, At least I don't! And I'm sure a lot of us don't!

The real question here is....... Why can't they understand??????

Well yeah, I am sure there are plenty of men who have problems as well with cders....but you want to point to unaccepting gg's....okay cool, what ever your reason...

Why can't they {gg's} understand.

Well let's see for starters, we live in a patriarical society....{that means men rule all things policical and social mostly} and at this point in time men expressing feminine traits, dressing too androgenously ect, are looked down on firstly by the *powers that be*.

Second, a high profile do-gooder loved by a large number of people will have to come out of the closet. When this hapens, and people see the world did not end....then a small shift will occur. Men expressing their femme selves will be as common as women wearing pants. :p

Give society another 1000 years though and I feel certain a gender-freedom revolution will occur.

As for cd's not wanting men...well dont' generalize something that gets debated here literally every week. I men if you do a search for the words *bi-sexual* you will find a very very large protion of cd's are bi-sexual or bi-curious. I used to believe the propaganda that Tri-Ess talks about 80% of cd's are hetrosexual...but hey I know better now...I have been in this community for almost ten years and I can tell you that I believe that the figure is probablyl closer to 30% only into women regardless of clothing the cd has on, but the rest falls everywhere else on the spectrum. So clinging to the old guard notions of hetrosexuality is something that most gg's in the community dont' buy as a stock response anymore. Trust me, I don't have one problem in the world with cd's being straight/bi/homosexual or into anything....everyone should be free to follow their heart without prosecution...my only issue ever is with the person I choose to be with.

But I am only arguing this point because I firmly wish the *straigth* cd's would quit trying so hard to convince everyone how damn straight they are.

But that was not the point of yoru post. As a very acceting and encouraging and very trans-open gg I too wish ALL PEOPLE would take the time to learn about things outside of their comfort zones. Learning about other cultures, nationalites, and sexual and gender difference will make ALL of us more tolerant and acepting of all people who are different than ourself.

[Karmen]

Women really care much more about what other people think of them and their family. Having a crossdresser for a husand is sometimes just something they can't reconcile oneself with. Especially they can't understand us if they don't have any out of the ordinary fetishes or "un-normal" desires them self. I think that the most un-understading wife would be the one, that has them, but she suppressed them deep in her mind since she's too ashame of that to admit.

[Sheila]

Women really care much more about what other people think of them and their family. Having a crossdresser for a husand is sometimes just something they can't reconcile oneself with. Especially they can't understand us if they don't have any out of the ordinary fetishes or "un-normal" desires them self. I think that the most un-understading wife would be the one, that has them, but she suppressed them deep in her mind since she's too ashame of that to admit.

WOMEN CARE FULL STOP, we nurture and protect, our family, and our friends, and you may nor believe this but then again SO DO MEN.



I think that the most un-understading wife would be the one, that has them, but she suppressed them deep in her mind since she's too ashame of that to admit

Well thanks, now I know that I stay with my cd out of hidden fetishes that I have suppressed, does that mean that I also stay with him because I secretly desire to golf, play pool, and am a secret Bantam Fan or any of the other things he does, --- Sorry to rain on your parade but I stayed with him after discovering his "secret Hobby" because I LOVE HIM, becuase I knew him, before I discovered and because she was a part of him, (only a part that I knew nothing about) I may have found it easier, I don't know.

What I do know is that as much as I love him we are still on a learning curve for both of us to know Claire Jane, should Claire Jane ever become more than the man in him, I don't think i would stick around but then again if he was on the golf course 12 hours a day and playing pool 3-4 hours every night I wouldn't stick around either

[marie354]

Quote by kathyGG: But I am only arguing this point because I firmly wish the *straigtht* cd's would quit trying so hard to convince everyone how damn straight they are.: end quote

Your response was intuitive and I'm grateful. The quote says it all... We should be, how should I say, more ourselves?

[Calliope]

Once upon a time I thought that like policy issues, if you could explain it, in time they might get it.

You can make someone have a bad time but you can never make someone have a good time.

Tekla is right. It's how, not why.