What's more acceptable...

[Amanda Shaft]

Would you agree with me that in todays society it is more acceptable to be openly gay than to openly c-dress?

Why is that? Do we need a new P.R. company?

Yours pondering, Amanda

[Marla S]

Would you agree with me that in todays society it is more acceptable to be openly gay than to openly c-dress?
Yes and No.

Gays have three advantages.

1.) They achieved a considerable liberation.
2.) Homosexuality is not automatically linked to fetishism and/or perversion (not anymore)
3.) Homosexuality is "invisible" usually, so people can look over it. Even if an homosexual lives openly people are rarely directly confronted with the sexual orientation (they don't wear a badge).

Main drawback: Wide spread, intense homophobia. Most people are still feeling queasy if homosexuality is mentioned.

TGs have three drawbacks

1.) We are easily confused with homosexuals.
2.) We are often linked to fetishism and/or perversion. (to the fetishism part we sometimes contribute a bit ourselves).
3.) If we are out, we are visible every second and people have to relate to us each of this seconds (that's something they don't like). Our clothes are our badge.


PS: Not considering the sexual aspects, I would compare our situation a bit to handicapped people.
That's visible all the time too and even friendly people are often extremely insecure in how to deal with those 'different' people (at least I am, and I consider myself kinda openminded and experienced, because I worked about 2 years with handicapped people).

[Karren H]

Agreed! The openly gays at work are so lucky! Sometimes I just want to beat the crap out of them....but then that wouldn't be very lady-like would it? Hehehe

Love Karren

[Sasha Anne Meadows]

You girls are right about reasons why gays are accepted and we aren't. I think we do need a PR plan to counter all misinformation that is out there. But then the question becomes "who will bell the cat?"

[Amanda Shaft]

But then the question becomes "who will bell the cat?"


Sorry, British! What does that mean?

[MarinaTwelve200]

Dont be too sure. The only GAYS that I see are accepted are the "Normal Type" ones----that is They dress and act like mainstream people in public, even though they are KNOWN to be gay who their companions are. I see this in the small town I live in. I know at least one couple here.

Everyone knows and accepts them, but I do not know that this would be the case if they acted "flamboyant" and/or steriotypical. They are open and frank about their gayness--if asked, but they dont dress funny, talk weird or throw their hands about (if you know what I mean) They are active in the local anglican church and also help out with community projects.

My point is I dont think a STERIOTYPICAL GAY is any more accepted in than a CD----Indeed, this is part of the problem. As the general public conciders CDs as being "gay" And thus a Crossdressed guy is gonna be percieved as a Steriotypical Gay---and severely looked down upon.

The fetish and pervert stuff, remember, is associated with steriotypical GAYS, and a gay who appears not to fit the steriotype is usually accepted.---Leaving the CD to be accused of being the "gay pervert".----The general public is not sophisticated enough to seperate CD and GAY--and assign the perv. and fetish stuff to the CD---to them a CD IS a GAY.---the bad kind.

Indeed, I really think we CDers would be BETTER OFF if the public DID know the difference, --as a HETRO guy who wears women's clothes is a LOT more psychologically "pallatable" than a gay to the general public----It seems though, that the public is not aware of the CD as an intity to itself.----To them there are only GAYS --the OK ("normal person") gays and the PERV GAYS---who dress like women, talk funny and go after kids, etc.----Which they think is US!

[carla smith]

I agree with above.

To be homosexual is predisposed, determined by genetics. There is not much that can be done to change it.

To be a crossdresser is preceived as being a choice, and for many it is a choice. However, we know that for most of us it is not a choice that can be denied.

Transgender issues, (born in the wrong body) are becoming more acceptable to main stream society. The "crossdressers" are caught between these two issues somewhere. We really are not all gay, but some are, and we are not all transgenders, but some are.

Have fun out there being inbetween or where ever! :hugs:

Putting a bell on a cat stops the cat from catching the mouse....mouses run free

[bi_weird]

Hope you don't mind an opinion from the other side of the wall, but yeah I'd agree that CD is much less accepted than being gay. I live in a very liberal college town where being gay is the norm and actually there is a lot of pressure among LGB people to not pass. On the other hand, no one has a clue what it means to be transgender etc., and so they have a lot harder of a time dealing with it.
I think it has a lot to do with time though. Gays came out in force decades ago, and have since then spent time convincing straights that we're normal people who just have different sex drives. On the other hand, most CDers and trans-people are a lot more in the closet, so the stories about perversion and fetishism are what the general public knows most about and so they're less understanding. (of course, this is the opinion of someone too young to know the history of the queer movement from experience hehe)
Honestly, though, a lot of it is education, and not in the lecture-y sort of way. People don't want to accept differences, but if you convince them you're a good person and then make them realize your CDing is just a part of that whole thing, they're more likely to accept it. I've found a similar situation with uber-religious people, where if I tell them that I'm agnostic they're likely to tell me to repent, whereas if I get to know them, making my respect and knowledge of religion clear as well as my general moral-ness, when agnosticism comes up they're a lot more understanding. Also, closer to home, with queer issues (L G B T and A have all come up this way), just getting the facts straight with indivuals seems to be a good way to get people to realize their mistakes. Honestly, just seems like they haven't thought about it, a lot of them. I've taking to going "So I read this really interesting article online about gender issues" randomly with friends, just to get people thinking about gender ideas, and it's led to interesting discussions, and (it seems) more understanding of the difference between sex and gender (a fundamental fact to this whole show a lot of people don't get) and all that jazz.

[Penny]

We need more than a PR company. How about a transgendered channel. To date, this forum has had 267,000 hits and that' not all us who hit it. Our advertisers could be all companies catering to women such as clothes, makeup, hair plus transgendered products. Our programing could range from hair styling to makeovers and psychological issues dealing with transgenderism. Our guest could include autors, psychologists, makeup artists ect.
What an education we could provide to not only ourselves, but also to the general public.
What do you think about that?

:hugs:

Penny

[KimberlyS]

I agree with most of the above. And I will add to "They achieved a considerable liberation." And they did this because they came out and there was a show of number to push for change. This is the same thing the Blacks did for equal rights and women did to vote.

Secondly, IMO I would say that there is more of a tolerance for the gays than an acceptance of them. The "Acceptance" will come more with time. Just look at all that is going on in the USA with same sex marriages or unions.

And besides there will always be those that will not accept. There are people in the USA that still strongly believe the blacks should have no rights and women should not be able to vote and do a lot of other things.

KimberlyS-CD

[Calliope]

Indeed, I really think we CDers would be BETTER OFF if the public DID know the difference, --as a HETRO guy who wears women's clothes is a LOT more psychologically "pallatable" than a gay to the general public----

I believe we really gotta stop defining ourselves by saying what we're not - it just sounds like we're dissing gays. Remember, we need them more than they need us. Gays are a lot more mainstream than TG at present simply because they have fought longer and harder. No one gives you a right, you must take it. Unity is hard to beat.

[Kate Simmons]

I would be the last person to diss my gay friends or any gays for that matter. They are just people after all with a different approach to life the same as us. DT is right. Anything worth the effort is worth fighting for. The problem is, when this happens most sit on the sidelines to watch the battle. If the victory is favorable to them, they ride on the coattails of those who fought. The American Revolution wasn't won by farmers sitting in their farm houses and waiting for some one else to do it. The real heroes are those who give of themselves winning little battles here and there to secure our rights. Unfortunately, they are seldom recognized for what they do and can become the "bad guy" at a moment's notice. Those cringing in the corner seldom offer to help. The freedom to be ourselves and secure our rights are desirable goals but don't come easily and certainly not without paying a price.:straightface: EKR

[Michelia]

Gays have fought long and hard for all kinds of rights. They too suffered in the closet and risked their jobs, families, and faced constant humiliation.

Most CDs do not want to be identified with the gay community, yet the LGBT organizations offer the best platform in public education and politics for us. Some ,if few but increasing every year, companies are starting to offer protection of the transgendered as a result of their efforts. They have started to open to us (witness the T in LGBT) realizing that not including us in the early movement was an error. But CDs seem to remain aloof.

And then there is the shame. Most of us are still guilty and ashamed of what we do. This needs to be overcome first, I think.

At my child's school there is one gay parent couple and one lesbian couple. They attend all the birthday parties and participate in all school events and no one talks behind their backs. I would not dare coming out like they have because I fear for my kid and the harrassment he may encounter. There is a BIG difference between them and us concerning the level of acceptance and/or tolerance by society at large.

My child knows about his daddy's "other life" and that is as far as I can take it for now. I had to think that if I really believed deep down inside that what I do is not perverted or sick, then I should not make it a secret. For him it has no sexual context, of course. It is just something different and he feels no shame. He has the advantage of having grown up without a TV, so he has never been exposed to adult material and is still very much a child. I do not feel like I have corrupted him.

But if it was not for fear of exposing my child to ridicule, I would be much more public about my CDing,especially since I have all my family on my side. I believe if we are ever to change things we have to get out there and educate, mobilize, and show off our special qualities.

I do think this site could in some way become a vehicle to mobilize and further acceptance of us. I guess it already does that, but it could be taken a step further.

Michelia

[Marla S]

Indeed, I really think we CDers would be BETTER OFF if the public DID know the difference, --as a HETRO guy who wears women's clothes is a LOT more psychologically "pallatable" than a gay to the general public----It seems though, that the public is not aware of the CD as an intity to itself.----To them there are only GAYS --the OK ("normal person") gays and the PERV GAYS---who dress like women, talk funny and go after kids, etc.----Which they think is US!
Do I read some homophobia here?
Our problem aren't the gays !
The contrary. They even did something for us, in paving the way towards more tolerance in general (not to confuse with acceptance) and sexual orientation in special, though the latter is not so important for us. A way we have to go.

And I would heavily doubt that we are more "palatable". Palatable is someone who keeps a low profile. The "average" gay does, because he absolutely blends in and isn't jumping around screaming: I am gay, I am gay. The "freaks" (drag queens, leather gays, etc.) show up in their "corners" (scene, clubs) and are too seldom seen and too far away to be a serious threat. (We are no threat either, as long as we play the woman's-impersonator on stage ... people applaud us.)

Do we keep low profile ?
A lot of us don't. Despite all attempts to pass, we discuss about the highest heels, usually wear way to much makeup, prefer stockings instead of hose or socks like GGs do, wear way to often skirts moaning that GGs don't do anymore, prefer atomic breasts, enjoy showing the newest bra on a hairy chest etc. etc.
Before we moan about the bad image gays give us, we should start to work on our self-portrayal. Maybe a more ladylike one (Ladies don't talk about their panties).

Our problem is that we are often seen as gay+ and that most people are a bit simple minded.

"gay = man not loving women, but man" is an easy equation that most people get.

Transgendered is an equation with several unknowns even we can't solve, how should they.

Both has seemingly something to do with sex, so people stick to the simple equation.

But it is not the gays fault that we constantly mix sexual orientation and gender ourselves.
And it is not the gays fault that we at least contribute to the fetish accusation. i. e. in how we present, what we talk about, and what pictures we show. People usually don't want to know about the sexual practices of others.

We have to work on the + first before we have a right to moan about the gay part

Now stone me.

[Sasha Anne Meadows]

Someone asked about the phrase "who will bell the cat?" It an allusition to an old story about the mice deciding it would be safer if the cat had a bell on so they would hear it coming But one mouse asked "But who will bell the cat?"
What I meant by that is we can all be in favor of more advocacy but how many of us would really be willing to go public to do this?

[Sedona]

Wow,

Some great reads here. If we assume that gay or transgendered is a negative in most groups, then my take is: More acceptable in society to be gay simply because most people think:

Gay=Gay
Crossdresser=Gay and Cross Dresses

[Stacy GG]

Wow,

Some great reads here. If we assume that gay or transgendered is a negative in most groups, then my take is: More acceptable in society to be gay simply because most people think:

Gay=Gay
Crossdresser=Gay and Cross Dresses
I think you have the basics of how black and white some people see things. If they can categorize you it's easier for them. Less going..is that a guy or a girl? If it's a guy..oh he must be gay. so simple, so white and black and unfair.

[janedoe311]

They are treated the same. Most people think CD's are gay anyway so that is to be expected.

[marie354]

Someone asked about the phrase "who will bell the cat?" It an allusition to an old story about the mice deciding it would be safer if the cat had a bell on so they would hear it coming But one mouse asked "But who will bell the cat?"
What I meant by that is we can all be in favor of more advocacy but how many of us would really be willing to go public to do this?

Yes Sasha, There are many of that havn't ventured out of the house, and trying to get us all out in public at the same time and place would be very hard indeed.

[tekla west]

What acceptence the gays have came about because they got up, got out, and got it done. They were not handing anything by the powers that be.

For the TG persons the same it true. Where people have been willing to be open, out, to join in the process they have gained.

[janedoe311]

Sexchanges is ok but gays are killed.

You figure it.

[janedoe311]

Would you agree with me that in todays society it is more acceptable to be openly gay than to openly c-dress?

Why is that? Do we need a new P.R. company?

Yours pondering, Amanda

Just because a man is effeminate does not mean he is gay.

A gay man can hide. Most you would not know are gay. But CDers are more often obvious.

It is the “Out of Sight, out of mind” way of thinking.

You can tell who is a CD but not who is gay.

I do not see gays as being more expectable, only less noticeable.

Transsexuals I see as being more acceptable, at least that is an step forward.

[Bethanygirl]

From what I can tell, cd's are less acceptable to the public than gays, and yes I think it is because of gay activism. But how do we become true activists? From what I've seen and read, most of us are in the closet, kinda makes it hard to go marching, or even claim the right if we won't display it in public ourselves. Most cd's are as much products of this society as anyone else, they convince themselves of reasons and rationals as to why they can't come out, or that they can't live how they want and hold jobs or have happy relationships. Many full-time cd's ignored society however and found jobs/careers, and have happy relationships. This means that those in the closet are just as closed minded about themselves as their society at large is. Sorry if I've upset anyone with what I said here, feel free to be like the rest of society and deny it, after all, everyone else does, don't they?

[Sierra Evon]

Unfortunatly its true it more accepeted to be gay, than CD, Society is a funny place , soo much makes no sence. I'll keep on fight'in the good fight , as a T-Girl , but I dont see change on the horizon anytime soon, soo in the meen time , hit those after x-mas sales..........:heehee:

[Marla S]

But how do we become true activists?
I think Kathy_GG said it: We need one or three widely known 'good-doers' as the heads of a movement, otherwise we are hardly able to build one up. The personal risk usually is high and nobody listens to unknowns.

Another way could be that of the breakthrough of the GL-movement here in Germany.
A fresh-water director of the gay scene had been invited to a talk-show. Instead of talking about his latest movie he outed some well known actors and politicians as gay (he didn't make friends;)). Big uproar and a lot of discussions! But this got the ball rolling.
Today we have a gay mayor here in Berlin (comparable to a governor), the leader of a political party is gay, gays in the parlament, gay folk musicians, gay comedians almost every day on TV etc.

Probably we have an additional problem: The TG folks is by far too splitted and hardly can speak with one voice. Just think about the countless labels and how everybody tries to separate from the one with an other label. In addition each of this labels has several definitions. This is pure confusion and nobody takes confused people seriously.

[carla smith]

It just struck me, no offense here gals, but even here on a site for crossdressers it appears that the majority of the members are afraid to show an image of their face.

We somehow have to overcome this fear, and then we can start a PR campaign to improve our image.

[Debra Lynn]

Public perception of CD is the same as Gay. As several have pointed out, simplicity is what the majority of the public is wanting. Once you start pointing out that there are shades of difference (TS, CD, Bi, etc), the attention span of the general public begins to wane, especially those who don't want to know more. (How many know how an engine really works, vs how many trust the car to start?) When you get to the point where you break it down to specifics, the public generally will not have the interest or the attention to listen to what you are saying. Few will, and those are the one's you can actually effect a change in, to show them that CD does not necessarily equal gay, or drag queen. But this is like advanced particle physics compared to introduction to algebra for most of the general public. Plus you are getting into the comfort zone of some people and going up against deeply held religious interpretations at the same time. I can dress up all I like on Halloween, but reactions would be vastly different on November 1st or May 15th.

[Michellebej]

There are a couple of places I go that other CD/TS go.

I usually dress in a nice outfit very much in keeping with being out for the evening without being "over the edge".

However; a lot of the other girls dress in mini skirts, prostitutes ( this is not a fashion statement from me. Rather they intentionally replicate the dress of street walkers), and other, relatively, non-standard dress.

What do you think that the public thinks when they see us? Do you think they see those of us that are dressed nice and "normal". Or; do you think they see those of us that are dressed outlandish?

Do not miss-understand me. I support anyone right to present themselves as they see fit. Even when it irritates me,because the perception they make on the "normal" world impinges on my political reality.

Just one of those things that we will have to overcome.

Love

Michelle

[Chiana]

I think the general public will easily lump us in with the gay community. Many of our CDer's are gay anyway. No big deal. Too much division in the ranks. I think it is much more simple that gay compared to CD's. I often read in this forum that many of our SO's can tolerate our dressing as long as they don't have to really put up with it. I think my GF falls under that catagory. She will give me clothes. We can discuss aspects of my dressing openly with no problems what-so-ever. We even go shopping for girl things together. But she really seems to avoid seeing me dressed. If there is more tolerance for gays it is really because of the "out of sight, out of mind" mentality. A gay guy walking down the street will go un-noticed. No problem for Billy Joe Bob. A guy in a skirt (especially if it is obviously a guy) well now that is a whole different story for ol' Billy Joe Bob. Or even the little ol' lady on the corner.

[Thora]

I'd like to make a couple small, but overlooked points here.

First, it was only about twenty years ago that gays were "decided" not to be mentaly ill by the mental health establishment. That is when most of their advances started to hit home. They have been working on their civil rights as long as they were denied civil rights. A huge factor, but not the only factor, in their liberation was not being considered mentally disturbed.

Second, as I was working on my coorporation's transgender guidelines, not yet finished, still negotiating, I researched into many other coorporations guidelines. Many of them start out with: Gender Dysphoria and Gender Identity Disorder are serious mental health problems.

Excuse me if I don't have any pain (dysphoria) and I am not disordered! Any pain I have is from the negative reaction to my transgender. Any disorder I have is in the OPINION of those who cannot accept that the binary is less than half the story. It isn't me it IS the rest of the world. Really. It isn't us it IS the rest of the world.

The way the gay community became non-crazy was to show that there was a significant number of gay people. Aparrently if there are enough people with the problem, it isn't a problem. There is also the Ka-Ching factor. Transgender people represent a lot of mental health billing. As long as we are a serious income for the health care providers, we will remain "crazy."

I'm not saying that is the only, or ultimate answer. I'm saying that as long as we are considered a serious mental health problem, we will be fighting uphill.

[MarinaTwelve200]

Do I read some homophobia here?
Our problem aren't the gays !
The contrary. They even did something for us, in paving the way towards more tolerance in general (not to confuse with acceptance) and sexual orientation in special, though the latter is not so important for us. A way we have to go.

And I would heavily doubt that we are more "palatable". Palatable is someone who keeps a low profile. The "average" gay does, because he absolutely blends in and isn't jumping around screaming: I am gay, I am gay. The "freaks" (drag queens, leather gays, etc.) show up in their "corners" (scene, clubs) and are too seldom seen and too far away to be a serious threat. (We are no threat either, as long as we play the woman's-impersonator on stage ... people applaud us.)

Do we keep low profile ?
A lot of us don't. Despite all attempts to pass, we discuss about the highest heels, usually wear way to much makeup, prefer stockings instead of hose or socks like GGs do, wear way to often skirts moaning that GGs don't do anymore, prefer atomic breasts, enjoy showing the newest bra on a hairy chest etc. etc.
Before we moan about the bad image gays give us, we should start to work on our self-portrayal. Maybe a more ladylike one (Ladies don't talk about their panties).

Our problem is that we are often seen as gay+ and that most people are a bit simple minded.

"gay = man not loving women, but man" is an easy equation that most people get.

Transgendered is an equation with several unknowns even we can't solve, how should they.

Both has seemingly something to do with sex, so people stick to the simple equation.

But it is not the gays fault that we constantly mix sexual orientation and gender ourselves.
And it is not the gays fault that we at least contribute to the fetish accusation. i. e. in how we present, what we talk about, and what pictures we show. People usually don't want to know about the sexual practices of others.

We have to work on the + first before we have a right to moan about the gay part

Now stone me.

I dont blame the GAYS for anything---more power to them, Its the IGNORANCE of the general public that galls ME. MY issue is the PUBLIC, not gays. There are just too many people out there that do NOT know what GAY is (OR CD for that matter)

"gay = man not loving women, but man" is an easy equation that most people get. "----I DISSAGREE HERE, at least in my experience. I dont think MOST people get it, if they do its a very slim majority. A LOT of the public dont.

Travel around less intellectual circles, ask people what gay means, or listen to what they say when the subject matter comes up. If they are aware of the definition above, they see it only as an adjunct (yeah, that too! type of thing). To most GAY=a man who wants to be a woman (and usually acts like one)

You see that beleif in their words, like when they accuse a CD of being gay, or , for example, The canceling of "Crossdress day" in a school, by administrators who claim it "promotes homosexuality". Theres a lot of GAY ignorance out there, and by people who should know better.

THAT is my opinion. I am not at all against gays--I have at least 3 gay friends,(whom I have been told, by ignorant aquaintances, to keep away from their children) I am just disgusted at public ignorance of the whole CD/GAY/TS matter----but I see not much I can do about it--except educate ONE person at a time.

[Sedona]

It just struck me, no offense here gals, but even here on a site for crossdressers it appears that the majority of the members are afraid to show an image of their face.

We somehow have to overcome this fear, and then we can start a PR campaign to improve our image.

True, I'm one of those faceless masses. To me, CDing doesn't occupy as much of my life as some other girls. Do I care enough about it to out myself and beat the drum? No, not really. I'm all about love for all rational and well meaning causes, but honestly, there are causes that I'm more likely to stick my neck out for.

[Rachel Morley]

I believe we really gotta stop defining ourselves by saying what we're not - it just sounds like we're dissing gays. Remember, we need them more than they need us. Gays are a lot more mainstream than TG at present simply because they have fought longer and harder. No one gives you a right, you must take it. Unity is hard to beat.
Very true words. IMHO TG's often get a free ride on the GLB coat tails.

[Marla S]

"gay = man not loving women, but man" is an easy equation that most people get. "----I DISSAGREE HERE, at least in my experience. I dont think MOST people get it, if they do its a very slim majority. A LOT of the public dont.

Travel around less intellectual circles, ask people what gay means, or listen to what they say when the subject matter comes up. If they are aware of the definition above, they see it only as an adjunct (yeah, that too! type of thing). To most GAY=a man who wants to be a woman (and usually acts like one)

Hmmmmm :thinking: ... yup .... You could be right about that ... something I didn't really take into account. This equation is even more simple, hence more easy to get.
On the other side, there is only a minor chance to change the minds of less educatd people anyway, this is almost self-evident. I don't mean that in an insulting way, because a lot of factors contribute here, that are not in their (and our) hands.


You see that beleif in their words, like when they accuse a CD of being gay, or , for example, The canceling of "Crossdress day" in a school, by administrators who claim it "promotes homosexuality". Theres a lot of GAY ignorance out there, and by people who should know better.
Those people have to be our target, educated but ignorant. They should get "my equation".
But I think we ourselves contribute a good lot to the problem in constantly mixing sexual orientation and gender identification.
We have to stop this !!!. (Let us become "Gay-ignorant" in keeping things separated.)

One of the most prominent examples is Tri-Ess
"An international social and support group for heterosexual crossdressers, their partners, the spouses of married crossdressers and their families."
For me their intention in pronouncing heterosexuality is obvious and understandabel in a way, but for the general public they fortify "your eqaution" and don't do us any favor.
Their self-description would even be stronger without the word "heterosexual", and the hetrosexual aspect is widely coverd by "married" as well as their aim and their target group by the rest of the self-description..

[TxKimberly]

Would you agree with me that in todays society it is more acceptable to be openly gay than to openly c-dress?

Why is that? Do we need a new P.R. company?

Yours pondering, Amanda
Yes - they are more accepting of gays and . . .
Yes - we DO need a new PR firm. That's exactly the point - the gay and lesbian folks have stood up and fought for their acceptance while most of us (me included) do our very best stay out of sight lest we out ourselves.

Kim

[dods460]

simplicity is what the majority of the public is wanting. Once you start pointing out that there are shades of difference (TS, CD, Bi, etc), the attention span of the general public begins to wane, especially those who don't want to know more.

This is the problem, when I first came out at a friends party I spent most of my time explaining the difference between TV, CD, TS, TG and all that good stuff. I mean don't get me wrong I thought it was great my friends were interested in my lifestyle choice, but if you have to do that for everyone I run into on the street most don't want to listen, they just want to verbally abuse you and maybe more... theres noway I'd walk into a biker bar dressed and try to explain all that.

[Joyciecd]

So many religions are against gays, gay marriage, gay partnerships, civil union, gay clergy, gay bishops, ad neausum, but not a preep about cross dressers! Go figure - - they may hate us so much they can't put it into words!

[Marla S]

This is the problem, when I first came out at a friends party I spent most of my time explaining the difference between TV, CD, TS, TG and all that good stuff. I mean don't get me wrong I thought it was great my friends were interested in my lifestyle choice, but if you have to do that for everyone I run into on the street most don't want to listen, they just want to verbally abuse you and maybe more... theres noway I'd walk into a biker bar dressed and try to explain all that.

Yup

Good practice in sciences, marketing, advertising etc. is the

:kiss: KISS-rule :kiss:

(Keep it simple, stupid)

We should think about heeding this rule too.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

Would you agree with me that in todays society it is more acceptable to be openly gay than to openly c-dress?

Why is that? Do we need a new P.R. company?

Pretty simple. Gays and lesbians fought hard (and are continuing to fight) for acceptance.

The vast majority of us are still in the closet (even if we're out in public). So if we're not going to stand-up for ourselves, we shouldn't hold our breath waiting for others to gain acceptance for us.

To be honest, I think we sometimes over-estimate how difficult the fight for acceptance will be. Admittedly, I do live in a very tolerant part of the country, but I've come out to number of people and nobody's really made a big deal out of it. Part of it is that I'd like to think they take their cues from me -- I don't act like I'm doing anything that I should be guilty or ashamed. I'm sure some folks think it's eccentric, but there are a lot of eccentrics in this world.

(Which is not to say there isn't discrimination against trans folks at times -- if you follow the news, clearly there is. OTOH, you generally don't hear about "success stories," whether its someone like me coming out to friends and other folks I deal with, or it's several people I know who transitioned on the job with bosses who made it clear the company supported them in their transitions.)