Dude looks like a lady / One of US ?

[Sedona]

Maybe this item belongs in another forum, but check out this news story:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/more/12/18/failed.gender.test.ap/index.html

Also: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20061218/indian_runner_061218/20061218?hub=TopStories

Terrible headline BTW (on the SI article). If it's true, and she's all guy (biologically speaking), shame on her for cheating. But, maybe she had both male and female characteristics, and the docs inaccurately made a choice for her. I'm not too sure what to think.

[Calliope]

Stripped of her medal ... 'abnormal chromosomes.'

The newspaper headline is wildly biased.

Numnuts.

[tekla west]

If she never did anything, or took anything, then how could they do this?

[marie354]

So what! Just maybe being born with an extra Y gives you the drive to be athletic. I don't think that it's fair for the press to judge this based on one single test.
So does a male athlete have an extra Y too?
:hugs: :love: :hugs:

[Sedona]

So what! Just maybe being born with an extra Y gives you the drive to be athletic. I don't think that it's fair for the press to judge this based on one single test.
So does a male athlete have an extra Y too?
:hugs: :love: :hugs:

While I don't agree with the SI headline, the press isn't the one judging her. It's easy to bash the media, but read both stories, they just report on what happened, and aren't offering opinion.

And, to be fair, none of us were there, so we don't really know exactly what kind of, and how many tests were given.

[fionasboots]

Looking at the picture in the second article it looks as if she has an adams apple - could just be the lighting but it's certainly not the best picture to include. She also looks pretty masculine overall - her face doesn't look feminine to my eyes anyway.

I don't think the articles give enough information; they mention a whole host of experts involved in the tests and then just say that she does "not possess the medical characteristics of a woman".

So which characteristics does she possess/not possess?

The SI article claims a source said she never had SRS so we can only assume that she really is at least physically female to some degree.

How female do you have to be? I mean there are an awful lot of female athletes that don't look particularly girly to me!

Oh well, it just goes to show that things aren't always simple black/white male/female ... but I guess we all knew that anyway :heehee:

[Penny]

He does look like a girl but then again, she looks like a boy. I know I'm a boy who sometimes looks like a girl. Other times, I'm dressed like girl and look like a boy. Still other times I'm dressed as a boy, look like a boy. (HUH!). I have nerver been a girl but I am a "DUDETTE". :heehee:

:hugs:

Penny

[CarmenG]

Updated: Dec. 18, 2006, 1:27 PM ET
Indian runner fails gender test, loses medalAssociated Press


NEW DELHI, India -- An Indian runner who won a silver medal in the women's 800 meters at the Asian Games failed a gender test and was stripped of the medal.

Shanti Sounderajan, 25, took the gender test in Doha, Qatar, after placing second.



AP Photo/M. Lakshman
Indian runner Santhi Soundarajan, who won a silver medal in the women's 800 meters at the Asian Games, failed a gender test.
The test reports sent to the Indian Olympic Association on Sunday said Soudarajan "does not possess the sexual characteristics of a woman," The Times of India reported. The test was administered by a medical commission set up by the games' organizers.

The Indian Olympic Association said Monday it has been told by the Olympic Council of Asia that the 25-year-old runner was disqualified.

"IOA has asked the Athletic Federation of India to return the medal as desired by the Olympic Council of Asia," the Indian Olympic group said.

The IOA also asked its medical commission to inquire into Sounderajan's case and report within 10 days.

There are no compulsory gender tests during events sanctioned by track and field's international ruling body, but athletes may be asked to take a gender test. The medical evaluation panel usually includes a gynecologist, endocrinologist, psychologist and internal medicine specialist.

An Indian athletics official who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media said Sounderajan almost certainly never had sex-change surgery.

Instead, the official said Sounderajan appeared to have "abnormal chromosomes." The official also said the test revealed more Y chromosomes than allowed.

Sounderajan was not immediately available for comment.

Copyright 2006 by The Associated Press


:OMG:

[Kerry Owens]

first, abnormal chromosomes....could more than likely be genetic, however...looking at that rather comparatively impressive 5:00 clock shadow, the adams apple..well...yeah it could be a guy, yet there's that slight gracile bone structure. I'd say this is one the DNAtest has to be done to clarify just where this person falls into.
Remember, he ran in the womens 800 meter race. Not in the mens 800 meter race. He/she got a silver medal...which again is impressive. That said, again, it was won under the presumption that this is a woman running.
The medal is completely invalidated by the discovery that a man was doing the running. Or at best a person of uncertain gender.
That is the crux of the problem. IF the person is female with a few male characteristics...the medal is not in any question, however if the person turns out to be a male...with the usual male hormones, then the medal should be rescinded.

[Helen in OK]

Before we go to far into this, it might be very informative for all to read this article.

http://www.medhelp. org/www/ais/ debates/letters/ Quigley.htm (http://www.medhelp.org/www/ais/debates/letters/Quigley.htm)

Nature has ways to throw us a curve ball, and unless you have a dna test you might not know if you fit into one of these categories.

Helen in OK

[Marla S]

Here we have it.

1.) Sad story.

2.) Badly and biased written. Contains no information that would allow the reader to draw own conclusions. So everybody reads it according to his/her own biases. We know how they are distributed usually.

3.) Sport has rules. Since a few years it even has rules (guidlines) to determine the gender. Everybody, (except the author and hence the readers of the articles of course), in principle is able to know them.
If there are such guidlines and the athlete failed, she/he is out. Maybe unfair, but that simple.
This case might be a chance to question the guidlines, but as long as there are no others ... she/he is out (hopefully the tests were conducted correctly and according to the guidlines ... the reader doesn't know).

4.) Gender-definition. Because for humans biology, sociology, psychology mix, there can't be a clear defintion in a strictly scientific way. Neither from the biological, nor sociological, nor psychological point of view. And there will never, never be a fair definition that covers it all.
It is one of the main aims of sciences to find exceptions and they will find one, and onther one, and another one. Therefor you always will find a person that draws the shortest straw, as sad as this is, in particular for the respective person(s)
Do we need a definition or guidlines anyway ?
Yes, as long as we don't want men-and-women's 800 meters and the fastest wins. Would that be fair ?

[Debb]

I was born with an extra X chromosome... I am XXY.

The "Y" chromosome comes from males. If this girl had even one Y chromosome, it lends certain genetic traits such as easier / stronger muscle development and general physical ability. If she's competing as a woman, it basically could give her an unfair advantage.

Me, I feel like the "Y" gave me an unfair disadvantage sometimes.