Parenting

[bi_weird]

So, partially inspired by Abraxes new uncle-hood, and partly inspired by some finals-avoidance conversation between my friends and I, I've been thinking about parenting and wondering what you guys think. I've realize that, while I do have a desire to be pregnant, and do the whole mother thing, I also find that I want to be a new dad. I've always loved seeing new dads with their babies, looking totally dumbfounded and awestruck, and I realized that I want to do that also.
I know we all have a desire for masculine clothes and identities, I'm just curious as to all your attitudes about parenting. Do you want to be a dad? Do you not care and just want to be a parent? Do you want kids at all? For those of you who already have kids, what would your ideal parenting situation have been?
I guess I'm just still perplexed, because I never considered this whole guy thing would include wanting to be a dad, rather than a mom or a parent.

[pocoyo]

I've never ever liked the thought of being a mum and there's something about the thought of being pregnant that totally freaks me out... anyone else can be pregnant sure, that's fine and doesn't scare me... but ewww not me!!!!! It's nothing to do with the whole having a belly thing, I think bellies rule... I think it's to do with the fact that it is something growing inside you :eek:, and something so female (at present until the male-having-a-baby-technology is commonplace!). Not to mention the way you usually have to HAVE it, through those female parts! Plus the whole scary pain and health risks terrify me lol And... the whole thought of that, even my mum just saying "ooh I'd love you to have a baby one day" just makes me cringe and have this huge wave of embarrasment and always has done. Even thinking about it now is making me cringe... do I have issues lol?!
Lately my answer has been "well when I marry Stephen Fry (as in a gay marriage) and we adopt a needy little kid you will have a grandkid to fuss over!" :heehee:

The nearest thing I can imagine to being a mum is that I can sort of picture me as a tough Sarah Connor type mum who is not girly at all and teaches her son loads of cool stuff and also I know I'd be a lot of fun and a total laugh. It would never feel right to be a "mum" though. Euurgh.

To be a Dad however would be pretty excellent I think :happy: I know that I would be a good dad and be so loving. I went through a stage where I imagined being a dad a lot. Ahhh. I even wrote lots of poems and stories about it and everything.
I'd like to be a dad to a cute little boy who has floppy hair like me hehe!

I think it means more to me than I realise... someone once said to me "You'll never get to see your wife give birth" and it made me feel sick and really upset. It's absolutely not true though because even many gm's cannot have babies with their wives and use sperm donors etc, but they still get to see their wives give birth to their kids and are still excellent Daddies!!! (You certainly do not have to have a biological tie to be a good dad and for the child to really really be your actual kid).
I have a little magnet that says "Anyone can be a father, it takes someone special to be a Daddy" I totally agree with that.

[Ryan]

Awww Poc bro! I understand where you are coming from.
But I have been pregnant and know what its like. Although I never gave birth coz I didn't get the chance. It was a hard and terrible thing to deal with as it was not by choice and I actually knoew something was wrong, but I did not know I was pregnant.

I have copied and pasted part of one of my online journals here to save alot of time. You will see by the end how it caused a conflict inside me. I dont ever want to give birth to a child, but when that happened it was so hard. Have a read and you will see what I mean, bit long though as I had to go back quite a way............



I got even more depressed as I went along and when I was 17 something else bad happened to me and I just started to drink all the time, so much that I'd pass out where I'd been spewing, in the loo. I did the usuall teenage stuff like trying weed etc, but I ate it, one thing I've never done is smoke. Yuk!!! Then I moved out of home when I was 17 and stayed where I was for five years then I moved to where I am now, well the area I'm in, I moved around it abit at first til I got my own proper sort of place. In between I still drank alot and gave up on antidepressants and swapped to sleeping pills instead, up until recently I still took em, 4 at a time at times.

One night I went out with a friend about 3-3 and a half yrs yrs ago and we got pissed as you do then I went bk to hers, we ended up taking sleeping pills with a bottle of Baileys, we had seven or eight each. I just fell asleep after a while and woke up like *bleep* the next day, but I still wasn't exactly all there. I went out to get a drink that night, I only had two drinks and was completely gone coz of the tablets I think. I remember being at home with some bloke I knew at the time, who had always identified as being gay, so me thinking I was safe, I thought I was ok. I wasn't as it happens, I ended up pregnant to cut it short and I had done a test to see to make sure but it was too early and I didnt know. I went to the doctors alot after this and told her what happened to me and she didnt wanna know, she wouldnt repeat the test even though I was quite poorly!

Anyway I went bk to see the doctor that wouldn't do alot and told her I was still bleeding after a month and that I was getting alot of pain, her fone rang, she told me nothing was wrong and sent me away. I got about 5 mins down the road when I couldn't walk coz of the pain, I walked some more and called up some people to meet me, I couldn't walk anymore. Then I started to bleed even more, I got into a loo where I lived and an ambulance was on its way, I got to the hosp and they told me to wee in a pot etc, took blood and said you're definately pregnant, you might have just lost it. I did cry, one I didnt even know I was pregnant and two, well it was horrible to go through.

The doctor at the hosp afterwards came in and did an internal to see if the 'plug' was still there, it was, she said she needed to do a scan to check its in the right place'etc. So they rushed some water in for me to drink asap and did a scan, nothing there, so they did one from inside. I wasn't told anything, then a while later they took me up to a ward in a roon of my own and said they need to put a cam in my stomach to see if they could see the baby. If it was in the wrong place as they thought then they would have to take it out else I would die, basically bleed to death then. So I waited and waited with Mam and StepDad and then I had to sign some forms and take off my black nail varnish (goth days) etc and get changed, then they said as it was getting late that they were not sure if they would operate tonight as someone had just been rushed in with appendicitis.

As it was I went down around 1am and came out at about half three in the morn. They asked me if I knew what I had done and I said yes, I knew anyway by the pain I was in etc, and I was right, the baby was stuck in my fallopian tube and it had ruptured so they took the fallopian tube too, I know this may sound bad but after that I wished they'd have taken it all as I knew that I would be needing it done to be a boy. Anyway, a few days passed and I left on a Saturday, I couldn't hold the tears in, yes I wanna be a boy but, I felt like I was a walking coffin, I cant explain, but to know you had something part of you, then dead inside you and then it was to be left in the hospital as you just walked away hurt alot. The one nurse was horrid she thought I was a lesbian as I said I liked women and she said 'oh it dont matter to you then about what happened', but it did metter :(

It has been said to me that if I'd have had the baby coz all was well then I could never go for GRS but many blokes that are m2f have had kids too, just coz they didn't actually give birth they still made the baby too. I never wanted to be pregnant as it was and I'm not sure I would have wanted to give birth to the baby anyway but I will say that I dont agree with people who just sleep around and have abortions coz they couldn't be bothered to use protection, in those cases, to me, they knew what can happen, but that wasnt the case for me anyway, i got pregnant coz of what some *bleep* did to me when I was shouting him to get offf me etc, I dont wanna talk about that bit, but the rest has been a pretty big thing for me to deal with the past few yrs.


So after this, I sort of feel strange about the wholething. I know that I dont want to be pregnant or give birth ever, but I also know that those feelings I had when I was pregnant will never be felt by me again. See the thing is, even though I had done a test I kept thinking I was, but.......You cant really argue with science etc. I thought after a while that it was me being stupid, even if I was getting sickness every morning etc. When they say someone knows if they are pregnant it is true, but often it is never spoken of til afterwards. I would like to be a father, so much though. What I fear is that if I was a father and I split up with the mother, that she would take the child away and that I would have no rights as I could not physically help create the child in the first place.

I have a Nephew/Godson to spoil at the moment which is not the same but I love him to bits and I love spoiling him too. He is funny, he is only four, and the other day he came up bless him and went to ask me a question, he started with 'Aunty Ryan?' I know its not what I wanna hear, but he said it so innocently I just burst out laughing. He didn't have a clue what I was laughing at, but he started to laugh to, then asked me what he was gonna ask. It's times like those that it hits home, about what could have been. But it wasn't. Maybe it was Gods way of telling me that I am not meant to be a mother, but hey I knew that already.....................

[pocoyo]

Awww Ryan... I am so sorry that you had to go through all of that, and it sounds like you were treated APPALLINGLY :( . That's just not on. You should have filed complaints against your doctor and the hospital.
You poor thing. That is very similar to something that happened to a friend of mine actually, except in her case she was careless.

I think it's totally normal to feel down and confused and disturbed after all that. I think you are very strong to be working through it and moving on. You will be ok. I hope you are feeling wonderful soon. Did you get counselling? I hope so.

Don't worry it will all feel much better when you have moved even further on and can see it in a different, less painful light.
I'm so sorry that they treated you so badly *hug*

I don't see why you can't have GRS if you'd had a baby? Lots of FTMs have had babies before they transition. Silly person that said that to you.

Have a hug and smile :hugs:

[Ryan]

Thankyou Poc bro. It was a few years ago now, so I felt I have moved on, but some things bring it crashing back. But hey, life goes on eh! I was in the process of suing the GP but it is such a long and would have been painful process to go through that I just couldn't do it. I am still here alive and kicking, things like this can only make me stringer though eh? :)

[pocoyo]

Definitely, you will so be a stronger and more understanding person because of it :happy:

[Maria2004]

(You certainly do not have to have a biological tie to be a good dad and for the child to really really be your actual kid).
I have a little magnet that says "Anyone can be a father, it takes someone special to be a Daddy" I totally agree with that.

Yes, it's true. Well said Pocoyo.

[RevMoonSerpent]

Odd thing to talk about kids. There was a time within the first year of my marriage that I thought it would be great to have kids.(I was also on birth control so hormone regulation might have had something to do with it.)
In general I have never had a great love of children. I'm alright with my best friends daughter and I know that I wouldn't hate my own the only problem I have is with other peoples children. It probably isn't really the kids either it's just that people don't seem to know how or want to deal with their children and I can't stand them running all over the place and causing trouble so it turns me off to liking them all together.
Also like Poc said, the thought of pain and other physical stuff that comes with pregnancy and birth I'm not to thrilled with either. Even if by some miracle I really wanted children it would have to be a joint decision with my husband. He knows how I feel about having them and we have talked about adoption. We both feel it would be good to adopt an older child for the simple reason that most people don't want them. They want babies and to me every child needs a home.
I would like to be a parent but, I don't think I'm ready for it just yet and don't know if I would ever be. I also don't know if I would be mom or dad material. A little of both I guess but, you never know.

[mistunderstood]

If I could I would love to be a dad or at least a mentor to a child. Only problem with being a mentor is I have Bi-Polar disorder and here in the states that keeps me from doing this.
It sucks but I see the point. Do not want some crazy person hurting a child,but still sucks.
As far as being a dad yes I can do that.

[pocoyo]

Thanks Maria :happy:

lms - reading your post made me remember a time when I almost did fancy having a baby one day :straightface: (obviously when I was much older though) when I was going out with someone who I put on a girly act with. I still had the embarrased and weird feeling but the thought of the kid was a little bit nice. I think it was because I loved him so much (well, thought so at the time) and maybe it was to do with hormones and the fact that lots of the ladies where I worked at the time were pregnant. (Seriously about 4 or 5 of them pregnant at once sitting right near me!) Also I didn't know about TGness then so didn't really consider consciously that I could be a dad.

Mist.... you are not crazy!! Don't be mean to yourself. Having bipolar does not mean that you are crazy!!



An addition to my 1st post: When I think about being a Dad I also think that I'm far too selfish.
I am not a selfish person AT ALL, but I have come to love my own space and freedom, heck, having a dog is hard enough, let alone a CHILD!

There's no way I could be a dad now or perhaps ever. I would have to be older and more mature, have transitioned, have a partner and be far less selfish and far less in need of my own space and time to myself... not something I can see happening (the being less selfish thing) not long term anyway. I also can't see myself staying long term in a relationship either.
I sometimes joke with a friend of mine online (who thinks I'm a gm) that we will get married and have kids one day. It is an appealing fantasy, but that's probably all it is. I don't think I even particularly want children. I'm way too immature a person anyway.

I do worry that if I did become a parent....even though I am very gentle and loving, there is this huge pool of rage inside me that I can (and do) access when I am very annoyed. I think that a child can be very annoying and I am scared that I would get too angry with it. Mind you... the most anger I feel is from PMT, so maybe testosterone would chill me (as some report), it bothers me that it could make me faster to anger though.

[mistunderstood]

Thanks Poco. I do not mind being crazy because at least I know I'm crazy and do not pretend I'm normal. What ever that is.:)
My SO says same thing about being selfish but if a kid was dropped off on the door step we would raise it.

[Abraxas]

I was hanging out with my little cousins today-- they're 5 and 8-- and every time I play with them I just want to keep them. Even though they can be little annoying brats sometimes.
I definitely want kids at some point. But it's hard to think about HOW. I mean, no way would I ever want to be pregnant or give birth, but somehow I'd want the kid to be part of me, genetically. OTOH, I'm so messed up with all these weird diseases and stuff, and I wouldn't want to put another person through this same kind of thing, so it would probably be better if I adopted anyway.
As to the mum or dad question, I don't know. I think it would only be fair to let my SO go by Daddy if he wanted, but where would that leave me? I wouldn't want to be a mum and having to call two people dad would be confusing for everyone. And I'm not sure how I'd feel about my kids calling me by my name. I dunno, maybe it just wouldn't be fair to the kids all around. I guess I'll just have to wait and see what happens, and in the mean time, I'll kidnap my cousins and my nephew, haha! :devil:

[Evert]

Kids? Well maybe someday. If my wife wants them. :p cause she is going to be the one pregnant. The idea of pregnancy freaks me out! No way for me!

If we want kids I hope that we can find a donor who looks like me. Maybe my brother, but at this moment, I find that a very weird idea.

and adoption is also an option.

I know the kid will never be biologicaly mine, but I don't care. I will love him/her no matter what.

For the guys here who don't have kids. If you want kids; Do you prefer a boy or a girl, or doesn't it matter???

[Abraxas]

I personally would like two boys and a girl. Of course, whatever they feel comfortable identifying as is fine with me.

[bi_weird]

A boy or a girl? I want seventeen, so some of each. *laughs* I come from a big family, my parents are from big families, so that's my ideal situation. Not seventeen, perhaps...but a big family. I'd like to adopt, especially older children. One thing I want, which is weird, is two blonde boys about two years apart. I have this weird image of my sons, but what's odd is that I know I'm seeing older brothers. I just still want them to be my sons.
Ryan, wow. *hug* Sorry that had to happen with you.

[Felix]

Don't be under any illusions being a parent is no easy matter and how ever idillic your images of it are it is the hardest thing one ever does in ones life. Having childeren changes the whole of your world from begining to end. It changes you, it changes everything as you knew it before. Sacrifice is a massive part in many areas. There are many joys ofcourse that goes without saying and many frustrations!!! There will be joy and sadness. A mixed bag really, like a roller coaster ride. The biggest thing it affects is your relationship with ya partner something nobody having their first child thinks about but then there are many things you don't think about cos ya carried along on a hormonal roller coaster like having blinkers on and then ya come through the fog and the reality hits it's a huge shock. Ofcourse it's not like that for everyone but it is for some. Don't get me wrong here I love my kids and wouldn't change them for the world.
Selfishly though I do sometimes wish it was just me, my partner and the cats but that's when I'm feelin fed up and frustrated with the kids LOL! xx Felix :hugs:

[CaptLex]

I think parenthood is a tough question for most people anyway, but for transpeople, there are even more things to consider. I always knew since I was a child that I wanted to have children (or at least one) someday, for purely selfish reasons (I realize now) - I was sure he or she would be the only person in my family who would get me. And I knew that I wanted to be the type of parent that I never had. As it turned out, he does totally get me and we get along great, but it could have turned out differently.

I had my son after I had given in to being female and thought I would never get to be a boy, and I knew that I also wanted the whole experience of being pregnant and giving birth, just to know first-hand what that's all about, but it's not something I wanted to go through again. I guess I approached it like an explorer who wants to discover things for himself, rather than hear about it secondhand. I had my son very young (20), but I also felt at that time that my time was limited. Maybe I knew something that I didn't really know I knew (you know?).

I can't give anyone advice on this 'cause it's such an individual and personal thing. Whatever works for you, I always say. But I know that going through all the hormonal changes during pregnancy and childbirth is rough enough without going off T and dealing with all that too (as some people do). It's funny, up until the day I gave birth I kept telling myself that it wasn't going to happen 'cause a big part of me just knew it wasn't physically possible for a boy to have babies (yeah, denial is powerful).

As I said, it worked out for me, thank God, but it's not an easy decision to make and I wish everyone the best of luck in their parenting endeavors - whether one has a biological or adopted child, or opts to dote on nieces and nephews instead. :happy:

[Calliope]

The biggest thing it affects is your relationship with ya partner something nobody having their first child thinks about but then there are many things you don't think about cos ya carried along on a hormonal roller coaster like having blinkers on and then ya come through the fog and the reality hits it's a huge shock.



From my experience, I would say the hormone shift really forks the road for the couple - forever. Adopting is one way to keep the experience 'bilateral' for both.