Crossdressing elitism? Conversation starter.

[StephanieCD]

Here is my heavy conversation piece for the night.

It's agreed among us that there are different types of crossdressers, yes? Definitions of these vary a bit but we all get the idea, more or less.

My question is to those of you who are more on the transsexual/transitioning end of things. How do you feel about those of us who are content being male and straight but enjoy dressing for the feelings it brings us? I, for example, am very turned on by it but often enjoy it for fun or a comfort - it grows as I accept myself. But I am content being a man. (but given the choice...)

There has been a lot of talk about how we are perceived and how we want to be perceived by others - but what about among ourselves? I'd wager that we're all pretty damn accepting - but are there any elitists or purists out there? Who believe fetishistic dressers aren't the "real deal"? I was told as much by someone once. That straight crossdressers were wanna-be chumps who didn't have the balls to be gay or the conviction to be women - that we were the most confused of the lot. I've always wondered what you all think, too. (not that it matters ;) )

I'm not looking to start a fire fight - just trying to seriously see what we all think of each other as there are many different groups of "us"...

[racheal]

I am hetro, through and through, however I really want a set of breasts that I can be proud of - something that will fill our the bra to perfection - I know that this may be a lot of other people's dreams as well. I love CDing and just want the 'top part' to be a woman for now, so I guess it being considered for the group of (I don't know the terminology that well), but I hope that this explains me for the moment. :)

[Tristen Cox]

I've long past judging others. I believe its wrong. When I look around at all my sisters here, or at another CD in RL I see another person, same as me same as you, same as the guy on the TV passing laws. We're all just people. ;)

*hugs* to all

Love
Tristen

[StephanieCD]

I had hoped so tristen, thanks :)

Me too.

Was just to see, ya know?

[Stephanie Brooks]

I see people just trying to make it through life. It doesn't matter to me if they're transgendered - or where they are on a TG path - or something else. I figure everyone is on a path they need to follow. My path is what I need to follow.

All I know is that somehow I need to function in this world where I bloody just don't fit. There's no "right" or "wrong" TG path.

I guess that I'd say the elitist, which I've not directly observed in the forums, would be the person who isn't comfortable with who or what s/he is. Few of us are comfortable with what we are, but the one who needs to denegrate others has deeper issues of self-worth.

[Holly]

Hi Stephanie,

I fear that sometimes we try and over analyze stuff. I personally don't understand why we try and accentuate the differences between us raher than trying to find and emphasize our similarities. We tend to evaluate and judge one another on the basis of race, gender, religion, education, or any number of other traits. Aren't we just people and shouldn't our goal be to try and and accept one another for what and who we are? I'm at a point in my life where I care less and less about finding differences and want to locate what I share in common with those I encounter. It's just not important to me if people don't think I'm the real deal or not.

Just for the record, I'm hetro and not the least bit interested in a permanent physical change to my body. That doesn't make me any less real than someone who does. My reasons for dressing are just as valid as theirs. I have no issue with them and accept them for who they are. All I ask is that others do the same with me.

Life truely is a journey. I know more things about myself now than I did 40 years ago. I know I still have lots left to learn. This forum has been a great help in my finding out more and more about myself. Thanks for making me take a deeper look inside myself.

[StephanieCD]

Here here!

[ChristineRenee]

I pretty much thought I was only a CD. The TG thing just evolved over the years. I guess I just got tired of looking in the mirror at an image that did not fit the internal feeling and image that I had of myself. I don't want to do SRS...I'm too old at 53 anyway and it wouldn't solve anything cause I still would probably end up looking like a man in a dress. I would admit however, that if I was 30 years or so younger, I probably would be at least thinking about the possibility of it. But now...no...no way.

Basically, I'm doing HRT because I want to reshape the chassis to better co-ordinate with the internal engine. How's that for a car metaphor, ladies?:p

I want breasts, I want to round out my hips and soften my skin even more...and especially, thin out that heavy beard growth.

That is primarily why I am doing HRT now and where I am at this stage of my life.

Luv to all,
Christine Renee

[Danielle1960]

I'm me? Well I like to crossdress, would like and am making some hormonal modifcations, but I like being me. I feel we might get a bit confused over who we are sometimes and may be take it out on others. I like almost everyone and a person has to go out of the way to get on my bad side. With that said I think everyone should be themselves and it does sadden me :( that the world doesn't allow that to happen.
Kisses
Danielle

[Sweet Susan]

This is certainly a great thread, Steph. I'm not sure what to make of some of the comments you have heard from others. I certainly have a huge tendency to let out a loud guffaw when I hear somebody say I'm not man enough to be gay. I mean, what the hell is that all about? I can't even fathom a response. Can somebody be man enough to be gay? And what does it mean to not have enough conviction to be a woman? I guess I'm just weird. I've pretty much thought that all along, anyway, and I'm perfectly happy within my own mind believing that I am weird. The thing is, other people can't handle me, or any of us for that matter, being weird. Everybody wants us to be just like them, but the truth is, there aren't many men out there that I'd like to be like. There are, however, many women I'd like to be like. But there I go again, showing how weird I am. I guess if I could be just like I want to be I'd be pretty damn weird and pretty damn sexual while being weird. Come to think of it, if I could be a woman, a real woman, a woman with conviction, I'd probably be a ****. :D

[Rikki]

I am me. I don't have time to judge other people and wouldn't if I did have time. I am satified with being a man, But I do very much like to dress like a woman.Everybody has there own minds to be how they want to be and I nor anybody else has a right to judge. It bothers me to hear somebody critisizing the way some acts or is. Live and let live.


Rikki

[Miss Sherry]

Interesting thread.

I've never understood the sexual attraction of say, wearing panties under men's clothes. But just because I don't understand it doesn't mean I don't accept and respect it.

Dressing for me has never been a really sexual thing in and of itself. I like the thought of being attractive, I like wearing colorful clothes, but mostly the image (at least the one I see in the mirror) fits.

I am taking hormones to help mold my body, and had considered SRS (or GRS as it is now known), but as others have commented, the age thing stopped me. I don't enjoy being a man, but have accepted it. I enjoy looking and "being" a woman, and I'm learning to accept that.

I have several friends who are pre-op (Please! NOT SHE-MALE!!!!) and a few who are post-op and very happy (and one who isn't ... it does happen) as well as several hetero CD. They are all friends because we like each other's company as people, not labels.

Sherry :)

[sherri]

Stephanie, I think this forum is proof positive that crossdressers as a group are mutually accepting and supportive. There will always be a certain amount of sniping, but that's just human nature. (Most of it takes the form of being judgemental about taste in clothes, seems to me.)

But it is my experience that gays can be judgemental, even prejudicial. And I've seen evidence that TSs and TGs have a tendency to look down their noses at us.

Of course I'm painting with broad strokes here. Not casting any stones.

[sandim]

Stephanie: thanks for the thread!

Throughout my life, my dressing has taken on different feeling within me! When I started dressing at age 11 it never started as a sexual thing but it always ended up that way! Throughout 20's, 30's and early 40's, getting bolder and more comfy with shaved body, pierced ears, longer nails, etc. the sexual thrill decreased and was replaced with a feeling of a kind of serenity when I was dressed as Sandra! The bottom line is I've evolved from a hairy pre-puberty kid wearing mom’s panties to a mature grandmother enjoying life as close to a woman as I can be!

With every "stage" or aspect of my CDing I feel I've encountered elitist predijuce! I'm going "out on limb" here by saying I don't think it's uncommon! When I just dressed with no makeup, wig, etc. the TV's I knew made comments about my looks and I felt like a pervert! When I was finally and totally enfemme with shaved body, makeup, etc. I always felt TS community accepted me only for the way I looked. Today I live as Sandra 24/7 and have been on a HRT regimen for 2 years, when I found out that SRS/GRS? , was out (pre-existing medical conditions) my TS "friends" called and used to tell me "how sad! you'll never know what it's like to be a REAL woman"!

The GL community although tolerant (read in another post, and agree) basically "put up with us" because it suits their agenda! I like to think I embrace ALL my sisters, no matter where they are in their "gender journey", with one of reasons being "been there done that, loved it".

BTW: I'm somewhat embarrassed to share this, but I still get a sexual thrill when dressed in complete bridal lingerie, with 5 inch heels and a beautiful peignoir!

[Wendy me]

just when i think i am ok i find something that makes me think........well years ago
never open minded at all old ways of thinking you know like wanting to dress and doing the manely thing and repressing it ............someone a guy that wears girls things must be like gay.....or something............no way not me not gay ..........defenly not a crossdresser...........no not one of those types..................
no way a manely man for shure ..........love girls................i am ok just keep them thoughts of wearing girls things away.................

then it happened during a time when "he" was in thearpy and rehab .............this girl
she busted down the door...............came in yelling dress me ...........i won't go away.....here to stay.............."he" tryed to stop her ...........no use she is here to stay..........the door opened as well as the mind..........this whole crossdressing nut case is or i think it is who i am............ still not into guys ..........into girls the crossdressing in the begining was like a sexully release.............but now it has little or nouthing to do with that i just feel like me when i dress...............

[racheal]

I've long past judging others. I believe its wrong. When I look around at all my sisters here, or at another CD in RL I see another person, same as me same as you, same as the guy on the TV passing laws. We're all just people. ;)

*hugs* to all

Love
Tristen

My goodness Tristen, I couldn't have said it better myself - great point! No dcut tape needed for you this morning. :) That's a 'Wendy' thing I guess :)...

[Julie York]

As someone who has only recently started to explore my own head with regard to this subject, this thread is really interesting.

I don't know where I fit in the spectrum but because of the kindness shown here I am now a lot more open minded and accepting of other 'angles' on CD that don't apply to me personally.

Two days before finding this forum I was very upset and uptight and posted on a tg forum (think it was even called tgforum.com or something) and only one person was kind enough to answer me. The reason for this was that I said in my post I did not want to be a woman. I was therefore one of those "pervy guys who likes dressing for kicks."

No-one actually said this but it made me very sad that no-one had the knowledge or compassion to say, "Hey dear you're not a TG who wants to be a woman, (not one of US) you are a simple Tranny. Go to this website etc etc."

But something a good friend said to me recently is very very revealing and I want to share it with everyone. (It was said by a dear member of this forum but she might not like being held up as my Guru.)

We were chatting about the whole CD thing and I said I was still confused because I didn't seem to fit in with all these people having such a bad time because they were ''born in the wrong body.'' There's a girl in me and she wants to play, that's for sure, but usually in a sexual way. The guy in me can cope with the sexy woman in me. I'm not ready for the girl being just a girl yet.

So she (my pal) said, "when did you first want to do CD". I said when I was five. I wanted to play house AND I wanted to be the little girl. She said, "Then it wasn't sexual. It BECAME sexual later. And when it stops being sexually exciting you'll just be that little girl playing house again."

Not sure what I wanted to say now. But, if you read other people's accounts, they seem to grow in and out of the sexual element but the girl is always there in the background.

So yes, there is eliteism. And the heirarchy is Post Op Transexuals (very superior!) Transition Transexuals (tragic drama!), Transvestites (fun and sort of cuddly), Fetish Transvestites (funny and outragious) and then Panty fetish.

So there you have it. I am just being honest as I see it. If it offends anyone in any way it isn't meant to and I am open to being educated.

[Rachel Ann]

I've encountered those attitudes but never on this forum (or at my TG club).


. . . straight crossdressers were wanna-be
chumps who didn't have the balls to be gay or the conviction
to be women . . .
The last time I checked, sexual preference was not a matter of choice. As far as "the conviction to be women" goes, some of us are happily bi-gendered. It just depends on how you feel about your male self. In my case, my boy and my girl love and need each other.

Lucky thing too, - were I TS I would be out of luck since my age and health preclude hormones.



The reason for this was that I said in my post I did not
want to be a woman. I was therefore one of those "pervy guys who likes
dressing for kicks."
Even my shrink, who is a very "by the book" (DSM) type, refuses to believe that CDing can be anything but a fetish. ("You either have GID and are TS, or you are just a pervert".)

I doubt that anyone who dresses solely for sexual reasons would self-identify as TG. When younger I dressed *partly* for sexual reasons, but that does not invalidate my status, I think.

Now, due to age and health, I am more or less asexual, but when I found Rachel calling to me more strongly than ever, I realized that there was far more to it.

[MonaSmith]

I'm sure that there is elitism, and I'm sure that we are all a bit guilty of it, if we are honest with ourselves.

I have no idea why I do this, why I feel the way I feel. I have no idea where this journey is heading or where the final destination is. I started like a lot of us here, childhood dressing and not realising that I wasn't going to grow up to be a girl, pubescent fetish for dressing in underwear, loss of the sexually driven dressing to be left...where? I want to go further, but how far? If I can't even work out who, what and where I am in my lifes journey, how can I judge another on a different and separate journey all of their own?

We are all the same in our differences.

Mona xx.

[StephanieCD]

I just want to interject that I hope I didn't offend anyone with my harsh phrasing, as I was mostly quoting others - ya know? That said... Nicely said, Julie.

[Steffie-Lee]

There is just no way around it.I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BORN FEMALE !! When I was growing up, not only did I notice that girls were prettier than I was, but they were the ones who got all of the attention. I was also some what feminine, had a terrible time in gym class, and in sports. The other boys would pick on me and call me a wimp or sissy. I wasn't gay, because I was very much attracted to girls. I started to fool around in my mother's clothes when I was 12. Later at about 20 when I got a good paying job and could afford to buy my own outfits, I started cross dressing most of the time. When completely dressed I would go out, drive my car and then go shopping. I looked so good, boys would try to pick me up! I would go out and try to pick up guys in bars, just to see how it felt.... OOOPS ! (Maybe I have gone too far for an open forum.) When I was young enough for a TS change, it was against the law. I hope the next time around, God, if there is one, makes me a girl, I don't want to go through life again made the wrong gender.....
.....NOW?? I Could use a boyfriend though to cheer me up a bit.....

[Holly]

BTW: I'm somewhat embarrassed to share this, but I still get a sexual thrill when dressed in complete bridal lingerie, with 5 inch heels and a beautiful peignoir!
Sandy,

Who wouldn't be!:D

[racheal]

Hmmm. I have not tried a wedding dress, the brain wheels are turning now. Hmmm...

[Miss Sherry]

I write internal copy for greeting cards. I'd like to share a prayer I did when I owned my own card company. Its always been one of my favorites:

Give us pause
to see the good within ourselves;
the unity of humanity and
the diversity of mankind.
Let us understand
we are all the same in
different ways; that
we see the world only from
different points
on a circle that
joins us with
Universal Love.

Give us wisdom
that we may know
that which enriches and that which detracts
from the path each must follow, with
understanding that all paths are not the same
but individual, yet parallel;
that all paths lead
to the beginning of the circle
and its end ...
which is God.
(c)1998 The syzygy Group

Sherry