Shaving Discovery, and More

[Felicity]

By accident, I discovered a shaving method that I have a difficulty nicking myself. I always knick myself when shaving my legs, but for the last few weeks, have not once. I attribute this to my using Borax as a soak for a skin rash I developed. I searched for various cures, and found Borax was one method. Before actually using it, I looked up a MSDS (material safety data sheet) on it. I found it to be safer than most products we use daily and find in soaps, deodorants, lotions, etc; so I used it. Since I had some, I put 2 cups in my bath water. Borax is sold as a laundry booster, and is a natural surfactant. I get four uses at this rate per box. I had some because mixed with white glue like Elmer's glue, it makes a gooey substance I experimented with for making false breasts.

Anyway, I found my skin to be slippery in the water, and got the notion to shave with no lotion. It worked great. Not only did I get a very close and smooth shave, I found it difficult to nick myself. I only used the slipperiness of my skin in the bath water. Now thinking I had excess lotion on my skin from my last tanning session, or lotion application, the next several days, I have not even applied lotion to my skin for several days as a test. I get a close shave every time with just the borax added to by bath water. I have since only used my 98% Aloe Gel on my skin.

I also noticed my skin was improving. Softer at the backs of my hands where it was drying out and the bagginess at my knees was reducing. I did some more research. I have always been one to avoid doctors and use more natural means. I have in the past used sea salts on occasion. I never realized how effective they were until taking a borax bath daily. I have since included a pound of sea salts with the borax.

Borax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borax) is a naturally occurring crystal salt that is also a natural surfactant. I linked two MSDS'. One from Dial Corporation who makes the 20 Mule Team Borax I use, the other from a research laboratory in Turkey:

Dial Information on Borax (http://www.dialcorp.com/documents/borax.pdf)
Dial MSDS (http://www2.prosarcorp.com/msds_frame.asp?site_id=196&msds_id=685&lang=e)
Laboratory MSDS (http://www.etimineusa.com/pages/msds_penta.html)

The only places I found in my area that sells the 20 Mule Team borax is Albertson's and Wal-Mart. It costs $4.xx or $5.xx a box at Albertson's, and only $2.46 at Wal-Mart. Needless to say, I buy a few boxes when I go to Wal-Mart. The sea salt, I haven't found in bulk yet. I have just been buying the 1 pound containers for 89 cents each. Note that sea salt is different from table salt. I don't care if it's iodized or not. Sea salt also contains magnesium chloride, and other chlorides, whereas table salt is just sodium chloride. The best in my opinion is the Masada Dead Sea Salts, but it is a specialty import. Wild Oats sells it for $14.95 for a 1 pound container. These are the salts I have bought in the past sparingly, and will start buying them again for maybe once a month.

I have decided to maintain my daily bath. My research makes me conclude salts are very good combined with my regular tanning. The tanning brings body poisons to the skin. Sunlight, real or artificial, is also needed for some proper bodily metabolic processes. It is believed by many the cause for people to get skin issues in the sun. Others believe it is the sun reacting with toxins in the skin including lotions and sunscreens! The salts remove these toxins out of the skin. My skin issue is almost cleared up, and I still don't know what it is. Very persistent. I figure by the looks, it is either scabies or ring worm. Most skin parasites are killed by the boron in the borax. My skin feels better all over as well! Once it is cleared, I will try smaller amounts of borax, but probably still use at least a cup.

P.S. Probably got the skin issue trying on used clothes! I noticed it soon after a trip to a thrift shop!

One more thing. I have even been using the same razor for months! The trick is, rinsing it out, shaking the excess water off it, then soaking it in mineral oil until the next use. Theory has it that moisture and oxygen corrode the blade at molecular levels we cannot see, but it dulls the blade. The mineral oil protects the blade from this process. The shaving action itself actually keeps the blade sharp!

[Billie2day]

Thats interesting about storing the blade in mineral oil considering costs of blades today. I shave everday chest and legs in the shower I use only bar soap and very seldon nick and that is usally since I'm not paying attention, I'm sure your skin gets used to the shaving for I still remember my first time I bleed like a stuck pig. Billie

[Joy Carter]

I don't shave but my face (epliator). So I'm going to try your mineral oil on the blade method. I use one blade for one facial shave. Other wise I nick and the shave quality is bad.

[Felicity]

I would really like to hear someone elses opinion of using the borax.

Anyone?

O.K.... I'm impatient. Not even 24 hours yet, but whoever tries the borax, please leave a message with your thoughts about it.

[Felicity]

I'm sure your skin gets used to the shaving for I still remember my first time I bleed like a stuck pig. Billie
That's very true. However, what I didn't mention, is if I use a shaving cream, or body wash like I used to in the borax bath, I notice the difference. The positive effects of the borax is negated! I may be wrong, but it looks like the borax is changing the skin consistency between healthy and dead cells. I think the blade is gliding between the two, removing the dead skin cells. I get what looks like a dead skin layer between the blades. I think the blades just 'skip' on the dead skin cells when using moisturizing shaving gels, lotions, etc; and catch, and dig into the skin, causing the nicks!

There is a notable difference! I've even shaved my face in the tub, and there is a notable difference there too! Even new blades. The difference is real with borax, at least on my skin.

[Bobbie Jo]

That's real interesting.I might have to try it because i have the same problem.
Ijust wished i didn't have to shave my legs every day to keep them real smooth.
Thanks,i really need to try something.........
Bobbie Jo, the new girl in town.........

[Marla S]

Borax has been used in the past (up to about the 1950's) as skin care product and bath product. Here in Germany the usage is resticted now, because they say the risks fom toxic effects exceed the benefits. Risks result predominately from ingestion and uptake through wounds.


I have always been one to avoid doctors and use more natural means. I have in the past used sea salts on occasion. I never realized how effective they were until taking a borax bath daily. I have since included a pound of sea salts with the borax.

Borax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borax) is a naturally occurring crystal salt that is also a natural surfactant.
Natural doesn't automatically mean healthy. A lot of the most toxic, allergenic, irritant etc. substances are natural.

All in all I'd say it shouldn't be a big problem to use borax, but I wouldn't do it on a daily basis, maybe once a week.

[sweeting]

i like to soak in the tub and use bath oils when i shave all over

[Robin Leigh]

My skin issue is almost cleared up, and I still don't know what it is. Very persistent. I figure by the looks, it is either scabies or ring worm. Most skin parasites are killed by the boron in the borax.

Sorry to hear about your skin problem, Felicity. I hope it is just a fungal infection, and not insects. :( Either way, the borax will kill them. Tea tree oil is good for fungal infections, too.

I agree with Marla S that it's not a good idea to use borax every day. Boron is a rather toxic element...


I get what looks like a dead skin layer between the blades. I think the blades just 'skip' on the dead skin cells when using moisturizing shaving gels, lotions, etc; and catch, and dig into the skin, causing the nicks!

Excess skin interferes with shaving in a variety of ways. The solution: exfoliate regularly. This will reduce the tendency of the razor to skip, keep the blade cleaner & sharper, and reduce shaving rashes & ingrown hairs.

As I've mentioned here numerous times, I generally shave my body with a dry razor, using talc as a lubricant. See http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=535591#post535591 for details.

Robin

[Marcie Sexton]

After my first hair removal with nair, other than "down there":heehee: I use an electric razor...works good for a close shave, but like all things you have to get your skin use to it...:2c:

I have one exclusively for my face and one for my bod:rolleyes: ...Oh and one other tip my wife gave me too...lotion, lot and lots of lotion...all over, good for the skin and helps with your appearance...she even shares her olay for my face...:o

Must be something to it too, she says I now have a softer look...just what I needed :D getting closer to that girlie girl look...

[Drucilla]

Well, the girls on the "View" yesterday were recommending AstroGlide persona lub for shaving their legs. They had a segment of in home substitutes for expensive beauty treatments. Several of them raved about how well it works.
Have not tried yet but did pick up a bottle yesterday and will give it a try. If it doesn't work for shaving guess it's not a total loss anyway !

[Felicity]

How disappointing. Nobody tried my new method yet?

Here in Germany the usage is resticted now, because they say the risks fom toxic effects exceed the benefits. Risks result predominately from ingestion and uptake through wounds.

I may be wrong, but from my limited understanding of living in Germany for six years, I think they are more concerned about the accidental introduction of the borax into the environment. Trace amounts of boron are needed for plants, but beyond trace amounts, it kills most of them! Yes, the wound and ingestion are a concern, but at levels that do not occur. Who drinks their bath water? Anyone? Even then, the form of boron is stable enough not to be toxic.

One of the several chemicals I dealt with in a job field was cyanide, in the form of potassium ferrocyanide.. Most people know cyanide as a poison, right? Now potassium cyanide and hydrogen cyanide, and other forms, are highly toxic. Another form of cyanide is required for our health as vitamin B12 (cyanocobalamin.) Cyanide kills by linking to the iron in red blood cells. When already bonded with iron, (ferro) it has no preference to remove the iron from the blood, and is no longer toxic. A similar thing happens with the boron in the borax form, but I would have to research the specifics.

I would add that ingredients put in lotions, shampoos, and cosmetics are more dangerous than the form the boron is within the borax too. Look at a MSDS for Sodium Lauryl Sulfate (http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9925002) sometime. This is found in most soaps and shampoos, and is far more dangerous than borax!. Anyway, from the Dial MSDS (http://www2.prosarcorp.com/msds_frame.asp?site_id=196&msds_id=685&lang=e):

ACUTE HEALTH EFFECTS:

INHALATION: Dust may cause mucous membrane irritation with coughing, dryness and sore throat.

SKIN CONTACT: Non-irritating to intact skin. Absorption through large areas of damaged skin may produce symptoms similar to those following ingestion.

EYE CONTACT: Direct contact with powder or dusts may cause irritation with redness, pain, blurred vision, and possibly corneal injury.

INGESTION: May cause gastrointestinal disturbances such as headache nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, and diarrhea, with delayed effects of skin redness and peeling.

Non-irritating to the skin, and like most anything, the dust is not good to breath! Most items irritate the eyes, and common shampoos are worse! Notice it specifies the powder or dust for being bad for the eyes. So is dirt, sand, and salt! The potassium ferrocyanide I mentioned only causes diarrhea, and similar symptom. So do laxatives! As for the skin, it states "large areas of damages skin" then similar to ingestion.

From the Laboratory MSDS (http://www.etimineusa.com/pages/msds_penta.html):

Emergency overview

Borax pentahydrate is a white odourless, powdered substance that is not flammable, combustible, or explosive, and has low acute oral and dermal toxicity.

Potential health effects

Inhalation is the most significant route of exposure in occupational and other settings. Dermal exposure is not usually a concern because borax pentahydrate is poorly absorbed through intact skin.
Inhalation

Occasional mild irritation effects to nose and throat may occur from inhalation of borax pentahydrate dusts at levels greater than 10 mg/m3.
Eye contact

Borax pentahydrate is a mild eye irritant.
Skin contact

Borax pentahydrate does not cause irritation to intact skin.
Ingestion

Products containing borax pentahydrate are notintended for ingestion. Borax pentahydrate has low acute toxicity. Small amounts (e.g. a teaspoonful) swallowed accidentally are not likely to cause effects; swallowing amounts larger than that may cause gastrointestinal symptoms.

It states inhalation is the most significant risk. Poorly absorbed through the skin. If you look at the chemistry of this, you will find it has to co with osmotic pressure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmotic_pressure), and why sea salts are beneficial too. The boron salt tries to remove things from the skin, not enter! The damaged skin is cleaned, and toxic to infections within the damaged area. Now it doesn't specify how much a large amount is, but it says ingestion of large amounts may cause problems.


I agree with Marla S that it's not a good idea to use borax every day. Boron is a rather toxic element...
For you and Marla, that is why I included two MSDS' in my first posting, and made some above statements. Notice in my first posting I say I looked the MSDS' up before trying it... I forget when in a rush, that most people do not have knowledge of things like a MSDS, or how to read them. I should have explained more than I did.




Natural doesn't automatically mean healthy. A lot of the most toxic, allergenic, irritant etc. substances are natural.

All in all I'd say it shouldn't be a big problem to use borax, but I wouldn't do it on a daily basis, maybe once a week.

I agree natural does not equate to healthy, but I would add that our bodies have adapted to flush most natural contaminates from it. Again, my above explanation of toxicity applies to the borax for of boron, like some cyanide forms.


Excess skin interferes with shaving in a variety of ways. The solution: exfoliate regularly. This will reduce the tendency of the razor to skip, keep the blade cleaner & sharper, and reduce shaving rashes & ingrown hairs.

Yes, agreed. I would exfoliate regularly, and still knick myself. I think the borax, perhaps how alkaline it is, has something to do with helping in that reguard.


As I've mentioned here numerous times, I generally shave my body with a dry razor, using talc as a lubricant. See http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=535591#post535591 for details.
I read that before, and went back to read it. If I remember, I'll buy some talc and try it. Right now, I'm happy with the borax.

[Lilith Moon]

EYE CONTACT: Direct contact with powder or dusts may cause irritation with redness, pain, blurred vision, and possibly corneal injury.


Interesting. I have recently been using an eye bath solution for a mild eye infection and one of the ingredients is borax. As others have said, it all depends on the dose. I am guessing that it is added for its antiseptic properties. I did try to get some borax to make up my own solution but couldn't find a local pharmacy that wanted to sell it.

[Kristen Kelly]

The mineral oil with the razor is a great one, but a less slippery one is 200 proof Alcohol (rum works well) in a bottle, after cleaning the razor store it there, blade stays clean and sharp

[Marla S]

I may be wrong, but from my limited understanding of living in Germany for six years, I think they are more concerned about the accidental introduction of the borax into the environment. Trace amounts of boron are needed for plants, but beyond trace amounts, it kills most of them! Yes, the wound and ingestion are a concern, but at levels that do not occur. Who drinks their bath water? Anyone? Even then, the form of boron is stable enough not to be toxic.
They discuss borax and other boron componds (boric acid, etc.) as dietry supplement, saying that the boron uptake from the eviroment and other products (cosmetics, washing powder, mineral water, etc.) is already high enough. They say an additional uptake shouldn't be higher than 1 mg per day in order not to exceed a 10 mg per day uptake that is considered harmless.
On the other side there seems to be not enough knowladge about the long time effects of high boron exposure.

A stable compound usually doesn't kill anybody, because to have effect it has to react (osmosis excluded), otherwise things like sand should do the trick too.

So, one or three borax bathes "won't kill" you (like one or three cigaretts won't kill you), but like old Philippus Theophrastus Bombastus von Hohenheim stated:
"The dose makes the pioson"
A daily borax bath will inrease the risks for toxic effects, but I am not able to judge if this is an acute risk worth to mention.

[Melinda G]

I don't know about Borax, and really have no opinion on it, except to say that anything, Borax, Nair, Neet, etc, can be absorbed through the skin, and find it's way to the liver, and other organs. That includes aluminum from anti perspirants, which by the way may explain the high rate of Alzheimers in the US, compared to other countries. The skin readily absorbs anything that is put on it. Thats how all those prescription drug patches work! Didn't mean to rain on the parade.:2c:
How many drugs and other stuff have been pulled off the market, after the FDA approved them, and told us they were safe. Just something to think about, when putting anything on your skin.

[Karren H]

I have never nicked my legs with a Venus female razor...ever.... Whereas using a standard male one I have done it many many times!!

Love Karren

[marie354]

Excess skin interferes with shaving in a variety of ways. The solution: exfoliate regularly.
Robin

There are these poofs that I like made of fine netting. They hold soap like crazy, lots of suds and they're just rough enough to exfoliate the body on a daily basis. I wouldn't use it on my face though, there are better things for that.
:hugs:

[Joy Carter]

The mineral oil with the razor is a great one, but a less slippery one is 200 proof Alcohol (rum works well) in a bottle, after cleaning the razor store it there, blade stays clean and sharp

Whats a good way to clean the razor blade before you put it in the mineral oil +?

[Felicity]

Whats a good way to clean the razor blade before you put it in the mineral oil +?
I just vigorously shake it in water, or rinse it out. I just use about ½" mineral oil in the bottom of a juice glass, made of glass. It needs to be changes about once a week as mineral oil absorbs moisture, even from the air.



They discuss borax and other boron componds (boric acid, etc.) as dietry supplement, saying that the boron uptake from the eviroment and other products (cosmetics, washing powder, mineral water, etc.) is already high enough. They say an additional uptake shouldn't be higher than 1 mg per day in order not to exceed a 10 mg per day uptake that is considered harmless.
On the other side there seems to be not enough knowladge about the long time effects of high boron exposure.

A stable compound usually doesn't kill anybody, because to have effect it has to react (osmosis excluded), otherwise things like sand should do the trick too.

So, one or three borax bathes "won't kill" you (like one or three cigaretts won't kill you), but like old Philippus Theophrastus Bombastus von Hohenheim stated:
"The dose makes the pioson"
A daily borax bath will inrease the risks for toxic effects, but I am not able to judge if this is an acute risk worth to mention.
Agreed. Now the major difference I would point out is that the boron in borax is very stable for the time of exposure, and limited intake. In nature, and going into the drain and waste water system, over time... breaks down into simpler, more toxic forms.

Consider this. How contained is the German sewer system? When I lived there, many of the items we have here couldn't be purchased there because of their environmental impact. Their sewage treatment was limited compared to the USA and very poor in some areas. To put boron chemicals and others into the rivers and streams would definitely be an environmental impact!

Also consider TÜV standards for automobiles in Germany. They are the strictest I am aware of. The German government seems to be very environmentally conscious compared to other nations.

I am confidant that borax used as a bath salt is completely safe. If you are cautious of borax, then you should be more cautious of shampoo! The earlier MSDS I posted for the sodium lauryl sulfate if for a 1% solution. It is higher than 1% in shampoos. The borax gets diluted in a bath to a great extent, well less than 1%. The MSDS for borax is for 100%!

Consider the Acute oral toxicity (LD50) rating as tested on rats. A 1% salt solution (http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9926836) (table salt) is considered toxic at 300,000 mg/kg. A 1% borax (http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9925661) solution is considered toxic at 266000 mg/kg. Not much more toxic than the salt we put in our foods! These numbers imply you can eat only 86% as much borax as salt.

Don't confuse the borax with listings of sodium borate in the same MSDS. It states death can be caused at a 5-10 gram dose. Borax if not sodium borate. It is borax pentahydrate. Maybe Germany treats borax like the EPA in the USA treats cyanide compounds. Even though sodium ferrocyanide is completely harmless, since it has cyanide in it, it is a controlled item for environmental purpopses!

[Robin Leigh]

Interesting. I have recently been using an eye bath solution for a mild eye infection and one of the ingredients is borax. As others have said, it all depends on the dose. I am guessing that it is added for its antiseptic properties. I did try to get some borax to make up my own solution but couldn't find a local pharmacy that wanted to sell it.

Are you sure it's borax? A traditional eye-bath ingrdient is boric acid, aka boracic acid. I haven't tried to buy it in decades.

Robin

[Robin Leigh]

Felicity,

Even though I was a bit of a chemistry whizz at school, I'm not a trained chemist, or a biologist, and I don't want to get into a debate over this. I just think one shouldn't expose oneself regularly to toxic elements if they can be avoided. Toxic compounds are a slightly different issue, since chemical reactions can render them harmless, but toxic elements can only be stabilized (if you're lucky). I think it's misleading to compare the toxicity of borax with table salt...

But I do have a box of borax here, and may try your method one day. :devil:

:hugs:

Robin

[Nicole_P]

Where does one purchase mineral oil ? At a drugstore? Thanks! I want to try the razor soaking!

[Felicity]

Where does one purchase mineral oil ? At a drugstore? Thanks! I want to try the razor soaking!
It probably depends on where you live. Drugstores should most certainly have it. I believe it is in regular food stores too, by the common medical things like band-aids, etc. Quite frankly, I don't remember where I bough mine. It is a common item.

Are you sure it's borax? A traditional eye-bath ingrdient is boric acid, aka boracic acid. I haven't tried to buy it in decades.
Yes, borax. Not boric acid. Now since you questioned me, I looked a little deeper. I was wrong in that Borax is more of a generic term. In my first posting however, I specified, the laundry booster, "20 Mule Team Borax."

http://www.dialcorp.com/images/purex/purex_20_mule_team_borax_hdr.jpg

If you refer to page one of the Dial MSDS (http://www2.prosarcorp.com/msds_frame.asp?site_id=196&msds_id=685&lang=e) that I linked in the first posting, it specifies it as SODIUM TETRABORATE DECAHYDRATE (Na2B4O7·10H2O). I incorrectly stated borax pentahydrate before. However, the 5H2O and 10H2O seem to be identical in risks. It is not a dangerous form of boron.

Since I did more checking, I found one place that specifies this chemical compound, (Research Organic) (http://www.resorg.com/Prodt.cfm?ID=RES0941S-A101X&Name=Sodium+borate,+decahydrate,+ACS+Reagent) that lists it as a suspected "teratogen ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teratogen)." If that is so, it can lead to birth defects. I would therefore think it would be best not to be around borax if pregnant, or a few weeks before planning to conceive. Their MSDS (http://www.resorg.com/Catalog/MSDS/0941S.pdf) has the same LD50 (50% lethal oral dose) to rats as the generic borax MSDS I listed. It also includes the LDLO (least known oral dose to kill) a man at 709 mg/kg. Now again, keep in mind, this MSDS is for the pure form. Not the less than 1% that would be present in a pound placed in bath water. I have yet to see any MSDS that connects borax to cancer. Some I found do connect it to reduced sperm production. Still, how much is possibly absorbed in a bath?

I will state this again in another way;

If you are wary about borax in your bath water, you should be even more concerned about common day chemicals. Even recent data is leading to conclude that since High Fructose Corn Syrup has replaced sugar in drinks, we have an increase in diabetes and obesity! I agree with being concerned about things, but really. From my point of view, borax is very benign compared to common chemistry in today's world.

Felicity,
Even though I was a bit of a chemistry whizz at school, I'm not a trained chemist, or a biologist, and I don't want to get into a debate over this. I just think one shouldn't expose oneself regularly to toxic elements if they can be avoided. Toxic compounds are a slightly different issue, since chemical reactions can render them harmless, but toxic elements can only be stabilized (if you're lucky). I think it's misleading to compare the toxicity of borax with table salt...I'm at that same point. If you read the MSDS', they point out acids and heat being what changes the borax. I wouldn't want to put borax in the oven!

As for not exposing yourself to toxic compounds? How is that possible in today's world without having your own garden, being picky on shampoos and lotions, etc. Again, I see a greater threat with these products.

As for comparing it to table salt? I think it is relevant. That 86% is probably real. Most things we expose ourselves to are harmless until you exceed a certain point. You can even die from drinking too much water!

But I do have a box of borax here, and may try your method one day. :devil:

:hugs:

If it is the laundry booster type, I suggest you do. One pound is just less than 2 cups. If it is not the Sodium TetraBorate DecaHydrate, or PentaHydrate, then I wouldn't!