phone call

[Iniquity Blonde GG]

about fifteen minutes ago, a friend of mine rang me in abit of a state !! now she doesnt know ive had dealings with c/d , ( never been discussed with her ), but...... she rang me never-the-less to speak to me.
just before xmas she came round with her children ( 2 girls, one boy ), i havent seen them for awhile, so it was really a :eek: to see how much they had changed. the boy ( whose 11 ) has really changed big time. hes wearing black nail polish, eyeliner, and had some long earrings in. i laughed and joked with him saying he was a "goth", but he just went red and said : " no im not, it isnt that" !!
his mum just said hes going thru "differant fads", and that was that ! untill this am. she is worried he's wearing more make-up, and his clothes ( in her words ) seem more "femmine" :rolleyes: she doesnt know what to do, as when she speaks to him he just goes all moody, and shuts himself in his room !!
now the difficult bit, she was asking me what she should do, of course i said talk to him etc, but i wondered if any of you had some more advice i could pass onto her ? his sister is teasing him, and she is worried hes becoming more "into" himself :straightface: theres only so much i could say, and i thought perhaps some advice from you , i could pass on, which may help her .
thank you :hugs: :love:

[RobertaFermina]

Dear WickedBlonde,

I did not develop so early or florid as this one, so I have no special insight.

I can say that all you have said sounds A.O.K., and sit tight. I'm sure that Wiser Heads are on the way with the advice you need. Perhaps a few of those "greyhairs" haven't straggled off to bed yet.....

Be well.

Roberta

[kerrianna]

I don't have kids but my friends who have will tell you this:

TEENAGERS (includes pre-teens this day and age) are totally unpredictable and basically a foreign species on this earth! :alien:

You might be a bit more sensitive to the crossdressing aspect of it so see it in that light.

What I love about young people is that they are willing and eager to try out different things. Again I will say, I DON'T have said young people, but I know that this drive to explore life will send them in all different directions.

Goth is usually a phase. If it's longer than that, goth-like people integrate nicely into life as they grow into young adults. CDers also find themseves, goth or not. And in this day and age I think it's easier for young people to find their niches.

So what should mom do? NOTHING except what she would do to raise a healthy, considerate, honest child.
And steel herself for the TEEN years. From what I've heard, it just gets more...interesting :rolleyes:

[Kate Simmons]

Kerrianna is right. Teenagers are not yet set in their ways and are not only dealing with hormones but trying to find their place as an individual. I went through something similar with my own Son, although not dressing. It was tattoos, then body piercings, and then depression. He emerged none the worse for wear and is now a responsible well adjusted Father. If the boy is truely an individual, he will experiment with different things until he finds himself. My wife was all agog and worried about my Son. I just let him play things out. There's some wisdom there somewhere. I now have a Son I am extermely proud of. Can't beat that. right?:happy: Ericka

[Joy Carter]

Panic is not in order here. Because she just might do more damage than she realizes. Tell her to get on the net and do some searching. The "Mermaids" are one transgendered group that I know of. I haven't researched any of it myself but there is information to be had. His emotional wellbeing is important at this point. And she should take care and not force anything too rash on him at this point.

[RobertaFermina]

I can support what Kerriana said.

My daughter went Goth for years. Trenchcoats, and Clown White makeup, with black lipstick, etc....and she wore this to high-school. I wasn't sure if I respected her audacity, or feared for her recklessness. Turns out both were in order.

I learned to never tell her what to do, or not to do.

I learned to tell her how I felt about those things that brought me grave concern, and remain silent on the rest. After speaking my feelings, I listened to her and her feelings, her wants, and needs. Once again, no demands - she was acting differently than I expected which is no problem compared to criminal activity or taking enough drugs to ruin her grades and her future.

I don't think there is anything I did in response to her behavior that influenced her one way or the other. And given the contrariness of teenagers, that was sheer brilliance on my part (truth is I was terrified that no matter what I did I would screw things up, nifty how that worked out).

6 years on, she has set aside most of her goth costumes and habits, though not completely. Her interest in music, and college took her attention, and she let go of some of the goth stuff and recklessness to find enough stability and energy to reach her goals . What is constant is she was a good kid, and she is a good young adult. Her basic humanity has never changed.

I could not control her choices without taking them away from her. Letting her have them, and watching out for any train-wrecks in which I would have to intervene was nerve-wracking. And it was exactly what I asked for in becoming the parent of a child I wanted to see become a bright, independent, decent human being.

Almost nothing was the best thing I ever did.

Roberta :D

[AnnaMaria]

wickedblonde GG,

As the father of an 11yr old daughter, I can see some of what your friend is going through right now. And, believe me some of it is quite scarry while it is going on. For instance my daughter is into the whole idea of showing what I consider excessive amounts of skin with clothes that are to small for her, but she thinks that they fit just fine. So the idea of your friends son being a goth doesn't really surprise me all that much.

But, you also said that he has recently taken to wearing more makeup and that he said that he wasn't a goth and that you just didn't get it. That would lead me to believe that there is infact more going on inside his mind than just the goth thing and that the goth experiment was just a stepping stone to something larger for him. To tell you the truth I think that you should find some way to introduce mom to the tg world and what it means without giving to much info about exactly why you know so much about it. If that is at all possible. Not so much to make her think that her son is a tg but rather so that she is able to better recognise the signs of him being a tg and which should help her to better understand her son and better communicate with him on a more personal level.

But keep in mind that if you just come right out and tell her that he might be a tg that she is likely to freak out and go overboard so to speak with the whole thing which could have a really bad effect on her relationship with him. I would also recommend that she get him in to see someone about the whole idea of him closing himself off when she trys to talk to him about the whole thing. It sounds to me like it is the begining of him burring himself in the closet because he is scarred that he will be rejected by the ones he loves and are the most important in his life.

Normally I would not recommend that you suger coat the truth about the whole tg thing, but in this case it sounds as if that may be the only way for mom to be able to understand the situation and wrap her head around the situation. Because from what I know of that age believe me it won't take much for her to alienate herself from her son and cause a rift that may or maynot be repairable in the future. He has reached an age where he is still dependant on the support of his parents but is unwilling to admit the fact that he still needs them. He wants to think of himself as completely independant and ready to face what ever comes his way.

Of course keep in mind that I do hope for his sake and hers that he is not a tg and is infact just going through a phase, because this "gift" of being tg is not something that I would wish on anyone, but at the same time it is one that I would not give up for anything because of what it has given me personally.

In any case I really think that you should prepare her for the idea that he might be so that she has time to learn what it all means and how she fits into the picture or how she could fit into the picture if whe is willing to take that step into acceptance. Because as we both know acceptance is the key to a healthy relationship with a tg no matter what the relationship might be.

good luck and I hope that this has helped in some way

Anna

[Sally24]

I don't know this mom so I don't know what type of parent she is. Can she just look out for the best interests of this boy, or is she going to try to push him in a direction she is comfortable with? If he is not comfortable talking with her, and she doesn't want to consider some sort of counselor, then a little bit of parental prying is probably in order. Something as simple as checking to see what websites he's been visiting and such. I don't endorce spying on your kids, like ransacking their rooms, but a little checking around for more obvious things might be in order.

Keep in mind that this child might not be a crossdresser. He might be further along the spectrum than most of us here. If so, early help to him would make a world of difference. There have been some cases lately of children (teens) transistioning. Phyically this is the best time for it as not much needs to be "undone".

The mom probably would need to walk down this thought line slowly or she might indeed freak out. And this boy might just be playing with gender expression and actually not even be TG at all! Just some thoughts from a Dad.

Sally

[crossing-the-rain]

You got all the best answers and advices.
Rain.

[Iniquity Blonde GG]

thank you all for your words of advice :hugs: as regards my friend, no she isnt the type to get too worried and try make him more of a "lad" as it were. i think she just wants to do/say right thing and make sure he's ok, with whatever it is he's going through. ive texted her since, and suggested maybe the net etc to look these things up , which she said was a good idea :thumbsup:
we both said "baby steps" @first with him, and see what "evolves " .
once again thank you for your input :love:

[Emily Ann Brown]

Having raised 3 children who turned out well enough to tell their mom when she outted me "What's the big deal?" I would suggest your friend look for an opportunity to mention (when only the son is around) that she had recently met the most interesting person...someone who appears female but was actually born a guy, and see if it sparks some conversation. Now that of course means she will actually need some decent info in case it does start the ball rolling.......

The age is hard enough to survive without having a gender issue to work through to boot. Love and support is the best medicine in the world.

Emily Ann

[Robin Leigh]

WB,

Here is a very good link for your friend & her child. TransYouth Family Advocates (http://www.imatyfa.org/Imatyfa/Imatyfa.html)

TransYouth Family Advocates (TYFA) are parents, family, friends and caring adults dedicated to educating and raising public awareness about the medical and cultural challenges faced by children with gender variant and gender questioning identities and the families who love them.

OUR VISION
Whenever children are able to express or articulate their gender identity, however young, they have the right to a caring atmosphere supporting that identity.
This and heaps of other resources for dealing with TG kids can be found atThe TS Roadmap (http://www.tsroadmap.com/). This site uses the Google search engine, so it's pretty easy to find stuff.

I hope this helps,

:hugs:

Robin

[Christina Nicole]

He seems more TG than goth, based on his statement, "No I'm not. It isn't that!!" and that he wearing more makeup and dressing more femininely. Thinking about motivations, he's dressing that way partly because he likes it, I'm sure. Kids are also motivated, from the time they are born, to do things that get the attention of parents. And also from the time they are two years old, they do things to assert their independence from their parents. Like anyone, once someone learns that they can go so far, they'll try to go a little further to see what happens and where the limits are positioned.

I don't know beans about goth. It's after my childhood and we don't have children who are into that. I do know something about TG. He sounds more like a crossdresser to me if his styles are heading towards feminine. But if also could be a ploy to get more attention. After dressing in a manner for a while, maybe mom doesn't pay as much attention to him, so he ratchets it up another notch. Maybe also he thinks she prefers the girls, so he goes more toward the feminine things than boyish. Maybe it seems to be working, that he's getting the attention, but the teasing that he gets from his sister, and probably from others is causing him to build a wall.

Hard to know the solution without knowing these people, but I'd suggest

Get the teasing to stop
Set some limits, but give him some room too. Don't set limit that are no further than he already has gone.
Give him attention that does not relate to his clothes and makeup
But don't ignore the clothes and makeup. For example, you could say "You can get eye infections from eyeliner or mascara that's more than a few months old. How long have you been using them? Do you need new ones?"
By building some common ground (#4) mom can then start talking to him about goth, or feminine, or whatever it is he is into.

The idea is to give him the attention he gets from the goth thing, get rid of the negative words that cause him to withdraw, and allow him to rebel without it seemingly bothering mom. Then she can try to figure out what the message is he's sending her.

Warm regards,
Christina Nicole

[TxKimberly]

about fifteen minutes ago, a friend of mine rang me in abit of a state !! now she doesnt know ive had dealings with c/d , ( never been discussed with her ), but...... she rang me never-the-less to speak to me.
just before xmas she came round with her children ( 2 girls, one boy ), i havent seen them for awhile, so it was really a :eek: to see how much they had changed. the boy ( whose 11 ) has really changed big time. hes wearing black nail polish, eyeliner, and had some long earrings in. i laughed and joked with him saying he was a "goth", but he just went red and said : " no im not, it isnt that" !!
his mum just said hes going thru "differant fads", and that was that ! untill this am. she is worried he's wearing more make-up, and his clothes ( in her words ) seem more "femmine" :rolleyes: she doesnt know what to do, as when she speaks to him he just goes all moody, and shuts himself in his room !!
now the difficult bit, she was asking me what she should do, of course i said talk to him etc, but i wondered if any of you had some more advice i could pass onto her ? his sister is teasing him, and she is worried hes becoming more "into" himself :straightface: theres only so much i could say, and i thought perhaps some advice from you , i could pass on, which may help her .
thank you :hugs: :love:
Wow - what a tough call!

So what is our primary concern here - helping the assumed crossdressing boy, the mother, or both? One of the obvious questions you need to ask yourself is "do ya feel lucky punk" . . .err . . sorry, that slipped out. . . I mean how much do you trust this family with YOUR "secret"?
I THINK in todays day of the internet and TV, the boy probably knows at some level that he is not alone, but this would have been the most valuable thing in the world to me when I was younger. Just to have someone say "You know what, your NOT alone, there a lot of us out here" would have saved me years of heartache.
You know how it feels from the SO/Family member side - how much would it have helped YOU if a woman you knew and respected had hugged you and told you that you were not facing this alone?
In my opinion, this would be the most valuable thing you have to offer either of them, but are you willing to take the chance on them knowing about you and yours? You also have to wonder, what if your wrong and he's NOT TG and you "out" yourselves trying to be kind?

I'm pretty sure all my post is gonna do is ramp up your anxiety level, not really help you. My guess is you have probably already reached the same conclusion anyway. :-)

I WOULD appreciate hearing what you decide to do and how it goes if you don't mind sharing?

All my best!
Kim

[Robin Leigh]

Hi wickedblonde,

Can you give us an update on this? I hope all is going well,

:hugs:

Robin

[Lindsay]

It's possible that we're jumping to conclusions about TG/CD/whatever here - the "it's not that" could be simpler. Emo looks a bit goth-like but it's more feminine (eyeliner, girls' jeans etc), and Emo kids get annoyed if they're labelled goths (or vice versa).

Just my two cents...

[Lisa Golightly]

http://www.mermaids.freeuk.com/

[Iniquity Blonde GG]

firstly my apologies for late response, my daughter has been unwell, and just gone back to school after xmas hols, so i hadnt chance to contact my friend ! :rolleyes: anyways, i texted her, and she rang me. things are ok, apprantley theres a few of her sons friends @ school whom are going through this process, and when she spoke to her son, he said he "wasnt going werid or out mum, just experimenting" !! :thumbsup: so shes not overly worried anymore, and has spoken to a couple of the other boys mum's, and they said its nothing to worry about, let them be what they want, and then "they" will decide how they feel about the dressing / make-up etc :happy:
she has just decided to keep a close watch, from a distance, and told him if he needs to talk to her she's there for him :happy:
thank you all again for your support/help :love:

[Kate Simmons]

It's nice to have a caring Mom like that. My Mom always suspected about me and told me that if I ever needed to talk she would be there. We never did get around to it though. I wasn't too concerned really. Teenagers need to find their identity. As we all know, the transition from child to adult is by no means easy. Finding one's self is a big part of that.:happy: Ericka

[Rachaelb64]

I would worry too much wicked, my son is 15 and over the past few years has gone from skaterboy to chav to fashion victim and some points inbetween :D

Mind you the fashion victim stage is because just recently he has discovered girls are fun to be with :D

Mind my daughter who is 13 and gone straight to 21!

[Marcie Sexton]

I have a son who is a few years older than the one you mentioned, and he too has played with the goth look, nail polish and even makeup...no big deal...he has even went to school made up...

I would speak to the school counsler and see to it that if problems arise you be < the parent > be contacted ASAP < yea I know the're suppose to, but you don't live in this school district >, then just play the waiting game...my son on days will use the nail polish and eye makeup, then on other days he's dressed just opposite...neither my wife or myself have made a big deal out of it, especially seeing how I have always told him to walk to his own drum beat...At 11, i believe you said, this young man is already exercising his right to be his own person...the only nudge I'd give as a parent is to stress " DO THE RIGHT THING"

[MsJanessa]

the kid's going to do what the kid's going to do---your friend should monitor the situation to ensure that the child is doing nothing damaging to his/her health or anything of a permanent nature(ie sex reassignment surgery, hormones etc) and see what happens. It may be that he/she is a transexual and will eventually go the whole route(after 18 or maybe even 21 years of age) or it may be that he/she will turn out like most of the people on this site a CD who may either go out in public or dress and stay home or it may be just a rebellous phase. At 14 its really too early to say.

[Amanda Jane]

the kid is 11 / don't rush to conclusions / he has lots of time to play with even worse fashion decisions

while the fashion deal seems obvious the "he just goes all moody, and shuts himself in his room" / "hes becoming more "into" himself" / are warning signs of other issues / search his room

[Jestina]

If he is not comfortable talking with her, and she doesn't want to consider some sort of counselor, then a little bit of parental prying is probably in order. Sally24

Teenagers are not yet set in their ways and are not only dealing with hormones but trying to find their place as an individual.
Ericka/Rich

THese two coments stand out for me the most.
After 25 yearts as a counselor I have dealt with youth and family all types of criminals and offenders.
I must say that an accurate asessment cannot be dome third party on a thread like this. It may be the mom needs to see a family counselor but not for her son, maybe for the family dynamic.
If her son is acting out it is always a symptom.
If as Ericka says, it is something to work out well then, you can't do anything anyway. Chat with her as a friend but if she is not concerned then you don't be either.

I had an uncle who was a terror in the early to mid 1950's riding outlaw type motorcycles, Harley's and Indians. Mohawk haircut on and on.
When my inocent demure churchgoing aunt became engaged to this man there was an earth shaking panic!!!
By the time he died he was regarded as the champion of the family. I have 18 aunts and uncles and he is the MOST fondly regarded.

As Chuck Berry said:
"Cest la vie said the old folks it goes to show you never can tell"

[Penny]

Kerrianna is right. Teenagers are not yet set in their ways and are not only dealing with hormones but trying to find their place as an individual. I went through something similar with my own Son, although not dressing. It was tattoos, then body piercings, and then depression. He emerged none the worse for wear and is now a responsible well adjusted Father. If the boy is truely an individual, he will experiment with different things until he finds himself. My wife was all agog and worried about my Son. I just let him play things out. There's some wisdom there somewhere. I now have a Son I am extermely proud of. Can't beat that. right?:happy: Ericka
:thumbsup:

[Jestina]

Looks like the wisdom of Ericka is voted to be sound.

Eh wot?

Jestina.

[Kate Simmons]

First time for everything I guess Jestina. I kid around a lot to keep things lively but when I'm serious, I'm dead serious.I am very proud of that boy (a man now really). He was the middle child who was the "handfull" but turned out to be the best of the lot.:happy: Ericka

[Iniquity Blonde GG]

now adays though ( for teenagers ), its more "accepted" to dress as they do, and experiment !! when i was @ school it was really frowned upon if any male wore make-up or anything :eek: i remeber a lad who was in my class,and he had a big thing for "adam & the ants" (uk pop group ) , the lead singer wore war-paint etc , and this lad did same !! he was bullied etc by the older lads coz they thought he was turning gay !! :Angry3: i was fuming, this poor lad was only enjoying the music, and idolising his hero as it were, yet he was getting punished for it :Angry3:
i want to bring my daughter up with NO predjudices , and to accept people as they are , and hear them out, before she judges ANYBODy, no matter crede,colour,sexuality etc. :o

[Kate Simmons]

That's great to hear WB. The world would be in a lot better shape if we had more good Moms like you Hon.:hugs: :happy: Ericka

[Iniquity Blonde GG]

thank you ericka, its just something i feel strongly about . in this society today, theres so so many predjudices, and i want my child realising that its whats on the inside not outside that makes the person :happy: