SHAME ON YOU 'GGs'

[Penny]

This thread is not intended to alienate anyone. It urks me to say this but there are a lot of CDs here that look better than about 50 percent of the women out in public today. Why is that? Well, I'm not talking about weight or size, I'm talking about appearance in general. What is it? Have women now found with their freedom to wear anything they want so they chooose to look bla? Is it laziness? Have they abandoned their feminity?
With freedom comes responsibility. In my opinion, women have a responsibility, as the pretty sex, to live up to it. My mother, God love her, will be 90 next month. She has endured 2 strokes and still will not leave the house without makeup and she would not be caught dead in something she would't look right in. It takes her an hour to do get ready to go to the store just buy groceries.
My wife can put on a skin primer, blush, mascarra and lipstick in less than a minute and I gaurantee you, will look better than I could if I spent 3 hours!
So what's wrong with this pictures?
Now this 1s not directed at all GG's but if the shoe fits, wear it or more importantly, if makeup fits (and it is does because it was desighned for you), why not wear it. If the clothes are wrong, why wear them?
So if this is you, go ahead justify this less than, in my opion, acceptable behavior.

Penny

[Holly]

Penny, if I were you, I'd put on my cast iron panties... this isn't going to be pretty...

[marie354]

Yea, Penny, I've noticed that women today seem to dress down a bit and a lot never use makeup at all. But I've also noticed that there are still quite a few that won't leave their house without putting on their face and dressing nice, even if it's just pants, a lot of them wear really nice tops when they go out. I'm always looking at the way women present themselves. They are, you know, a lot more relaxed than a lot of us are. And they know too, that it really doesn't matter what they wear, they look good too. I've known plenty of women that makeup would make them look plastic on top of their natural beauty. The ones that are lookers know it and most of them flaunt it as well. While most women prefer the comfort of pants these days, there are quite a few that really look great no matter what.
:hugs:

[Billie2day]

In defence of GG's I agree it is their legancy to primp and dress up. But that takes time as all of us now know and in todays socity time is in short supply. Today also most women are working and not in the traditional jobs that required a formal dress code, they are in jobs that require only jeans and a sweatshirt.
The one I hate is the peddal pusher outfit it does not look good on most gg's that wear it.
In the 50's and 60's there was the "housewife" and that was her prime activity so there was time for the primping.
Think about it there is now less competition for us out there. I agree there are some gorgeous members in this group.Billie

[Caz]

Brave

–adjective

1. possessing or exhibiting courage or courageous endurance.

[Ariel_TV]

In my opinion, women have a responsibility, as the pretty sex, to live up to it.

In my opinion , Men have a responsibility , as the strong rugged sex , to live up to it. /sarcasm



We crossdressers should be the first peoples to promote liberty to dress, wear and look anyway we feel like . Not impose our standards like the rest of the society is doing to us :(

If we can't accept different ways of doing stuff , how can expect other to do the same for us .

[bianncats]

this is everyone not just women. men and women just don't dress as well as they used to. We are a lazy society with many choices. There is not the social stigma to dressing down like there was in generations past.

If you are a church goer---how many people wear jeans to church?
If you are a parent and your child has a school function, do you dress up for the event.
Look at our work force casual friday has turned into casual everyday...20 years ago I wore a tie to work everyday. Now I wear Khakis and a button down twill shirt.

We as a society have just gotten more casual....in all aspects of our life...casual sex is another huge topic.

And I think thats a bad thing:2c:

[Emily Ann Brown]

Where is the fallout shelter in this place?

Emily Ann

[marie354]

Come on girls, look at it from a GG's point of view.
When wearing pants you don't have to worry about how you sit or bend over. To GG's that IS real comfort.
:hugs:

[dancinginthedark]

This thread is not intended to alienate anyone.[...]

So if this is you, go ahead justify this less than, in my opion, acceptable behavior.

Penny


Morning Penny. You know what they say about opinions don't cha' darlin'?? Like an @sshole everybody has one. And been my experience if you don't tend to your own it stinks. Like you said though, don't intend to alienate anybody. :p

Don't be so quick to judge darlin and please don't insult any one's intelligence by saying it ain't so. I may not have full make-up on this early in the am but my claws are sharp all the time.

dancin

[Tamara Croft]

Are you having a laugh or what?? This has got to be the most sexist post I've read in a long time. Do you think that we 'should' wear make up because we are 'female' ??? Do you really think that we should dress femine all the time??? Such high expectations..... maybe we could say that about our CD partners, dress like a damn man, BECAUSE YOU ARE ONE!!!!!!! would you like that?? no?? didn't bloody think so :mad:

<edit> Oh that's right, post something like this and then go offline..... coward :thumbsdn: :thumbsdn:

[Lilith Moon]

[fx: Lilith reaches for welding goggles]

:hiding:

[bi_weird]

Um yeah...I'm FTM and really REALLY not a fan of the stereotype that girls should always look pretty first. Women have so much more going than just looking pretty. There are other priorities, and you yourself know how long it takes to get ready in the morning. I've got better things to do.
(You're lucky I read this early in my day. If I was more awake this would be a lot angrier.)

[Kelsy]

I've heard this one one before Penny!! Fact is 90 percent of gg's can look better than most CD's without even trying, no make up -dressed down etc.gg's are the real deal, they can jump right out of bed in the AM and be beautiful in their feminine way. Try stepping out without your make up and everything else:eek:

Sorry! don't agree, there may be some unattractive females but there are many more unattractive men trying to be pretty myself included!! I can only dream of being so naturally beautiful:2c:


Jennifer:happy:

[Sherlyn]

...Wow Penny !!!!! whats crawling up your back ... is your mascara clumpy to-day ????? comfort zones ...to each their own

[sue ellan]

penney had better grab your b---t. this could get ugly.
sue ellan

life is like a roll of tp. the closer to the end the faster it goes.

[Sandra]

In my opinion , Men have a responsibility , as the strong rugged sex , to live up to it. /sarcasm



We crossdressers should be the first peoples to promote liberty to dress, wear and look anyway we feel like . Not impose our standards like the rest of the society is doing to us :(

If we can't accept different ways of doing stuff , how can expect other to do the same for us .

You have hit the nail on the head here now can I please have a hammer.......:p

I like many GGs am a busy housewife and I don't have the time like some CDers do to preen myself everyday to go to the corner shop, there is such a thing as over dressing you know.

I don't care what others think about my look so long as I'm clean and tidy and I won't pamper to anyones whim.(not even Nigella's) I dress to feel comfy not to be oggled at like a piece of meat. :Angry3: :Angry3:

[Sheila]

Penny,

What BLEEP BLLEEP right do you feel that you have the right to question the way GG's dress up or down when in actual fact you are not dressing completely in your GENETIC GENDER and if it was not designed to alienate GG's then what the BLEEP BLEEPING H**L was the question designed to do. How dare you and yes I am offended at the way GG's get hammered for dressing as we do in one form or another

[NatalieBliss]

I really can't believe a crossdresser would have an opinion like that. Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

[Sandra]

If a GG had started a thread about how CDers dress then all hell would break loose, did you really expect us just to sit back?

[mellisa's wife]

This thread ALMOST left me speechless!!!!! Ask my hubby - it doesnt happen often.

I can't believe what I have been reading. Try a day in the REAL life of a woman. I put on my makeup and curled my hair at 4:00 a.m. ( usual day) Today I took my husband to work, was at Walmart at 6:15 for sewing and household stuff, got groceries, liquor for the weekend, stopped and took care of the needs of my parents, went to the hardware store ( yeah - hardware store) drove home and unloaded everything. All was done looking perfectly presentable to pink chennille and slacks ( it's damn cold this a.m.). My day will end around 9 - after getting home from a late appointment.

A day in the life of a woman is not all glamour and sitting eating bonbons in front of the tv.......We dress for comfort and most of us take pride in our appearance,. IF not - the cosmetic companies, hair color companies, beauticians, jewelry and clothing store would be out of business. Some of us even spruce up when it comes time to for our mates to get home.

Do not make it sound like we don't make an attempt. SOmetimes ( but not always) it is not appropriate to wear silk, satin and pearls......

Please excuse me now.. the catbox needs cleaned!!!!!!

:wall:

[JoAnnDallas]

meowwwwwwww.........

[stlmichelle]

ducking and covering
Actually, I have been home with my wife for the past month due to the fact I was laid off from my job. I never got on her about her appearance, and especially now that I see what she goes through in the course of a day. I am sure that many of the gw in here have at least as hectic of a day if not worse. If I had to do the job she has to do, I would dress as comfortably as I could as well. And as far as the workplace goes too, don't blame the women, because men have let their appearance slip as well, we are just a little more in tune with how women dress cause most of us like to look nice in here too. It is really the employers, that are laxing up on dress codes that EVERYONE is not dressing as nice as they did not too long ago. So Penny, I am not busting on you personally, but that really is an unfair statement you made, I actually thought it was a joke when I saw the thread title, and was still waiting as I read through the thread. I couldn't believe that it wasn't. And that is all I have to say about that.

[Scrunchie-Bunchie]

I do so enjoy watching these online scraps.

It seems to me that the OP has things a little confused.

Genuine women dress to work and to go out. They don't dress around the house. Recreationally they prefer comfort and to be honest, most don't find skirts, dresses, hose etc remotely comfortable. As for cosmetics - very few apply it all the time and many never apply them.

Transvestites on the other hand, generally go out to work dressed in business attire or go out in jeans - ie comfortably. Around the house it's likely most guys wear tracksuits, jeans or even PJs. When we wear a skirt/dress, it's recreational - not the norm.

Women wear skirts/dresses when they go out on special occasions - their version of recreational dressing.

Don't blame women for not being dressed to the 9s 24/7. I would no more use my pressure washer nor my hedge trimmer nor any other garden tool while wearing a business suit than women would use the vacumn cleaner, washing machine, dishwasher, dryer etc in an evening gown. (and don't accuse me of sexism. I do all the laundry, cleaning etc in my house - as well as all the yard work. My wife is the main earner in my house).

[Bluebird GG]

Penny u need to get a life gurl, is that all u have to worry about is weather gg's wear makeup or not? thats pure saddness:thumbsdn: get with the plan, and focus on your inner beauty, thats my two cents worth for today!:rant:

[great gg]

not even worth the time

[Sheila]

to the remainder of the cdr's I apologize for the gender driven comment regarding dress, I was and remain angry at the post of Penny but in no way was it intended to apply to the very vast majority of you who treat as we expect to be treated -- with respect so please accept my humble apology

Jess

[GypsyKaren]

Just when I thought I've seen it all...Penny...I'm really at a loss for words here, I'm amazed you'd say such a thing. How can you compare Cders to GGs? I bet you 99% of them don't go out in public, but they look better? Hate to tell you, but if they looked so good, they'd be going out, ya think?
Am I screwed up too? I am full time, and I do admit to not making myself up as June Cleaver, I must really look like a slob in my jeans and sweatshirt. One more thing and then I'm heading for cover...you say that GGs go out looking bad? What about the men? It's funny how no one ever mentions them...though they do look pretty sharp with their beer guts poking out from their stained t-shirts, and their rear ends hanging out because they're so fat...oh, I'm sorry, I'm sure it's all Cary Grants by you!

Karen

[suanne]

:hiding: :wm: :spank: :slap:


and finally...........:surrender

[marie354]

This thread ALMOST left me speechless!!!!! Ask my hubby - it doesnt happen often.


Please excuse me now.. the catbox needs cleaned!!!!!!

:wall:

I, personally have always respected women. I guess it's part of why I dress. I like understanding more about women. I've done the ''housewife'' thing with my first wife when she first started working on my days off. It was always a very busy day... Dusting, vacuuming, mopping, dishes, laundry, dress and feed the child, etc, etc... A lot of the times I've found my job as a man was easier.
BTW... Love your cat in your avatar pic. I'll have to post one of mine sometime.
:hugs:

[Rachel Morley]

I wasn't going to post in this thread but this is a discussion board, and sometimes saying nothing can be perceived as agreeing, and I most certainly DO NOT AGREE with the original poster.

I think Ariel_TV's post is the one to focus on. IMHO the last thing a CDer should be doing is advocating that we follow sterotypical gender roles - that's "the pot calling the kettle black" :loser:

NOTE: "The pot calling the kettle black" is an old-fashioned expression where an accusation is arguably equally applicable to the person doing the accusing as it is to the person they are accusing.

[Ashley1]

Some of you CD's must live on Pluto, I see GG's every day in So, Cal. who do an outstanding job of putting themselves together to look great., Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[crossing-the-rain]

In my opinion , Men have a responsibility , as the strong rugged sex , to live up to it. /sarcasm



We crossdressers should be the first peoples to promote liberty to dress, wear and look anyway we feel like . Not impose our standards like the rest of the society is doing to us :(

If we can't accept different ways of doing stuff , how can expect other to do the same for us .

Ariel_TV,totally agree with you, we should respect other people's desired.
Rain.

[cocopuff's girl GG]

OK I have to get into this one.. Being a woman is more than dressing nice and wearing make-up, shaving legs and keeping up appearences it's about having a monthly peroid, having children, losing weight, gaining weight, bloating, mood swings, Pre menupause and menapause. If all I had to do was sit around and wonder when's my next time I can get dressed up and wear my new shoes or my new skirt life would be a blast but unfortunatly we have so much more to do being a GG. :2c: take it or leave it. Not meant to offend anyone but you opened this can of worms....

[Butterfly Bill]

I don't wear makeup because I don't like the sensation of goop spread over my skin, and I would imagine that there are women who feel the same.

[crossing-the-rain]

Um yeah...I'm FTM and really REALLY not a fan of the stereotype that girls should always look pretty first. Women have so much more going than just looking pretty. There are other priorities, and you yourself know how long it takes to get ready in the morning. I've got better things to do.
(You're lucky I read this early in my day. If I was more awake this would be a lot angrier.)

BI_ weird :You are absolutely correct !
Penny :you are totally wrong,but I respect freedom on all category.
Rain.

[susie evans]

penny
i can tell this is a hot topic you are right on some things but after putting up with me for 36 plus years six kids in and out of the hospital four the last five years and haveing a ful time job i think she can do what she wants and look
the way she wants :2c:

P S i no this is not directed to any one G G just in general

[Wendy me]

wow OK what a thread .... we as Cd's talk abought feeling comfy in wearing woman's clothing and how it can make us relaxed and how we want to be accepted ... we look to act and be as GG'S ... thinking like a GG we still need to work on ..(as this thread shows ) OK like we can't wait to get all dolled up ...

one thing we need to think abought make up and getting all dressed fancy and that dose not make a GG a GG ... what makes a GG a GG is the person she is ... and that goes from a working woman to a stay at home mom...

i would think that here of all places we would practice a little thoughtful thinking with ac healthy dose of nonjudgmental apprentice and see that pre judging and blind statements are not only wrong but hurtful....

acceptance is a two way street.... judge not and you won't be judged ....

[ReginaK]

It's hypocrisy to criticize women for not fitting into rigid gender sterotypes when you're so free to excercise your own gender variance.

[marie354]

acceptance is a two way street.... judge not and you won't be judged ....


It's hypocrisy to criticize women for not fitting into rigid gender sterotypes when you're so free to excercise your own gender variance.

I couldn't have said it better!
:hugs:
I have commented on this, but not as short and sweet.
:hugs:

[Sophia Rearen]

Penny, I'm surprised by this thread. Perhaps you could have thought about the title? Made it less offensive?
This is a classic case of "walk a mile in my shoes" or "Seek first to understand, then be understood", Steven Covey.
As you stated, "my opinion", and you are entitled to it, however, you seem to be using a broad brush. You mentioned your Mother, could it be she is from a different generation? I think things have changed?
Maybe I'm wrong here, but, from what I gather from watching makeover shows on TV, is that women are far to caught up in their roles. And, that is admirable. For they express their love through their actions. They often neglect themselves for the sake of others. Hence, their appearance and their feelings for self may diminish. Seems to me this was a slow conditioning that may have taken generations to occur. Can we really fault todays modern woman for what has taken decades?
My perception, from watching these shows, and something we may all want to consider is, take care of ourselves first, so we may feel better about who we are, then we can take care of those around us better. It's a win/win.

[Kieron Andrew]

:hiding: is it over yet???

[melissaK]

My :2c: , ArielTV said it right pretty early on in this thread. We shouldn't be throwing stones. The sntiment was echoed by someones nice sarcasm about why Penny maybe should get on with being a burly man . . . But there are the occsional days I look a the odd gg and think she's wasting it! That's just envy talking though.

Thanks for stirring the pot this morning Penny! Great entertainment!

[KrazyKat]

Penny, there isn't much that upsets me, but this did.

Reason:
I've spent 50+ years walking on this earth, and I don't feel being pretty is an accomplishment. Helping the EARTH and IT"S INHABITANTS survive is a little more important, don't you think?

[Casey Morgan]

I don't need to dress like an idealized man to be a man, I am a man (well, you know what I mean). When I dress like a guy I don't dress like my father or my grandfather. I don't dress slovenly (I am obese though) but I dress appropriately for the times. Times change, they always do.

That said, I'm getting the heck out of Alamogordo.

[Kate Simmons]

While it is nice to look nice (and we all like the ladies when they look nice), it's not always practical. As you say, I could work on my look and makeup pret near all day and not hold a candle to a GG's natural beauty. No way Jose. Sure we like looking nice Hon and we love it when real gals look nice but to be quite honest like many SO's they have a lot of work to do and sure don't wanna do it their nice clothes. The "June Cleaver" look went out years ago if it was ever truely real to begin with. I have been more or less full time for the past month and no way in New York am I gonna wear my nice clothes so I can clean toilets or do the laundry. I'm beginning to get a really true view from the "other side" here. When it comes to this kind of stuff women are practical., they have to be. Time is limited for a multi-tasker which is what most if not all of these gals are. They really could care less how a dress swishes on their legs while in the meat aisle of the grocery store looking for cuts or really care that they go "clippity clop" in heels when they walk. Trust me, I've been there.In all reality, women do like to look nice, especially for those they care for. On those occassions they do get that chance, it's nice to show that we appreciate their efforts in that respect. You are right when you say women look nice when they are all dressed up, of course they do, it just isn't always practical. I for one, love them no matter what they are wearing, especially all the GG's here because they are my friends and that pretty much says it all.:happy: Ericka

[Stephenie S]

Dear Penny,

If you think being a woman is all makeup and pretty clothes you have a lot to learn, sweetie.

The women I work with are all women. They are WORKING. I see very little makeup and no pretty clothes, (just scrubs). I also see the most important aspects of femininity there are. I see this on a CONTINUAL basis. I see loving, caring, compasionate, selfless, hard working, uncomplaining, WOMEN. When these women are done, they go home to take care of their children and husbands. And clean the house and do the shopping.

Your remarks were sexist and unfeeling.

Stephenie

[DarleneCD]

Penny,

First of all GGs have a natural beauty that has no need for "such decoration" to be respected.
Second, you took a poke at what I believe is a key element in the overall acceptance of CDs in general. The more that people dress in ways that express WHATEVER they feel, not what is socially expected, the sooner people will stop trying to categorize things as black and white or for our benefit girl and boy.
I consider those GGs strong allies on the front in a long "freedom of expression" battle.

You might want to check what side your on.

Dar

[Sharon]

Just as an additional comment here, but couldn't our FtM members also say the same thing about the way the average male dresses?

We, members of a crossdressing forum, are almost always focused on how we look and on our appearance. But -- be ready for a shocker here -- most non-crossdressing people of the world are just not as interested 24/7 in what they are wearing, other than are they dressed appropriately for where they are and for weather conditions.

[Tree GG]

We crossdressers should be the first peoples to promote liberty to dress, wear and look anyway we feel like . Not impose our standards like the rest of the society is doing to us :(

If we can't accept different ways of doing stuff , how can expect other to do the same for us .

:iagree:


I really can't believe a crossdresser would have an opinion like that. Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

That is what shocks me. A conservative southern belle attitude from a crossdresser ? ! ? ! I'm pretty sure that "proper gentlemen don't crossdress" in those social circles.

Judging people by what they wear ! ? ! ? I would've expected better.
***hang head in shame here***

In all fairness to Penny, having lived in the south, and with family currently there, she is expressing a very real southern social expectation of anyone wanting to be acceptable with middle-class or above society- proper ladies look just so - always. I don't agree or adhere to that with regards to clothes, but I am guilty of using "lady" behavior restrictions with my daughters. "Young ladies do not _______ "(fill in blank)

[Maggie Kay]

Penny,

First of all GGs have a natural beauty that has no need for "such decoration" to be respected.
Second, you took a poke at what I believe is a key element in the overall acceptance of CDs in general. The more that people dress in ways that express WHATEVER they feel, not what is socially expected, the sooner people will stop trying to categorize things as black and white or for our benefit girl and boy.
I consider those GGs strong allies on the front in a long "freedom of expression" battle.

You might want to check what side your on.

Dar

Couldn't have been said better! Amen and Amen.

[Jere Oneil]

I probably shouldn't even get into this, because, I'm mainly an "underdresser" at least as far as the public thing goes. But I will ad my two cents worth. I think GGs look nice, almost no matter what they wear. I can remember my wife, back in our younger days , braless in a paint spattered tee shirt and jeans with paint on her nose as we painted the kitchen and I thought she was lovely. I will say, however that I think women look at their best when they are dressed up in something feminine. No disrespect meant to the FTM dressers, but I just don't like women wearing manly things. But, for the GGs, I do respect your need for comfort, and like I said, a pretty girl is pretty even when she isn't all dolled up

[suchacutie]

OMG....I have to spend significant time to only *begin* to look like a GG who hasn't even had their morning coffee!!! I would adore to be able to be insignificantly different from a GG who is just being herself and not caring what the rest of the world thinks.

Maybe this is part of the point...it's actually a bit easier to "dress to the nines" and be a credible gurl...it's almost impossible to be a gurl and dress to go outside and work in the garden all morning!!!

LOL...so does that mean we want you all to get out there and be glamerous to make it easier on us!!!! ROFL....(I'm laughing so hard here my stomach hurts!).

(gets serious)....Or does this mean that some of us are only trying to be sexist stereotypes, and not the gurls we profess to want to be?

hmmmmm,
Tina

[Melinda]

In my opinion , Men have a responsibility , as the strong rugged sex , to live up to it. /sarcasm



We crossdressers should be the first peoples to promote liberty to dress, wear and look anyway we feel like . Not impose our standards like the rest of the society is doing to us :(

If we can't accept different ways of doing stuff , how can expect other to do the same for us .

Well, duh! Ariel_TV, is both pretty and right! The original post has got to be the stupidest idea I've heard in a long time. A CD trying to be the fashion police! Aaarrggh!

Penny, if you want the social right to dress like a woman don't you think the women deserve the right to dress like men or any other damn way they want? Get a grip.

Peace,
Belinda

[Sage GG]

so Penny, how are you ? thought you would just wake up and stir the pot today?

Well, you have a nice day,

[ToyGirl]

lol wow wtf. Wrong on so many levels.

[Kieron Andrew]

lol wow wtf. Wrong on so many levels.
short, sweet and sooooooo right!

[Vieja]

WOW. This is awesome. Could this be what is called a tempest in a teapot. I think you posted this just to get a reaction. If so. You did.

Vieja
Thumbs down :thumbsdn:

[Iniquity Blonde GG]

ok here goes !! firstly i HAVE NEVER WORN make-up !! hate the stuff, but thats my personnal thing, and its my desicison should i choose it. oh and by the way, ........... to use a quote of mine : ( which i know some GG'S already know )
" you wanna dress like a woman ?? then act like one, **** ******* " !! ( no offensive to most on here ) !! :Angry3:
i wonder how many mirrors you have actualy broken ? :rolleyes: :Angry3:

[CaptLex]

No disrespect meant to the FTM dressers, but I just don't like women wearing manly things.
Okay then, no offense taken . . . seeing as I'm not a woman.


Just as an additional comment here, but couldn't our FtM members also say the same thing about the way the average male dresses?
You took the words right out of my mouth, Sharon. How stupid would it be if we posted about all the men that dress down, have no fashion sense or don't bother to groom themselves - and trust me, there are many.

ArielTV, you said it better than anyone . . . :kiss:

Penny . . . :spank:

[Shelly Preston]

This thread is not intended to alienate anyone. It urks me to say this but there are a lot of CDs here that look better than about 50 percent of the women out in public today. Why is that? Well, I'm not talking about weight or size, I'm talking about appearance in general. What is it? Have women now found with their freedom to wear anything they want so they chooose to look bla? Is it laziness? Have they abandoned their feminity?With freedom comes responsibility. In my opinion, women have a responsibility, as the pretty sex, to live up to it. My mother, God love her, will be 90 next month. She has endured 2 strokes and still will not leave the house without makeup and she would not be caught dead in something she would't look right in. It takes her an hour to do get ready to go to the store just buy groceries.
My wife can put on a skin primer, blush, mascarra and lipstick in less than a minute and I gaurantee you, will look better than I could if I spent 3 hours!
So what's wrong with this pictures?
Now this 1s not directed at all GG's but if the shoe fits, wear it or more importantly, if makeup fits (and it is does because it was desighned for you), why not wear it. If the clothes are wrong, why wear them?
So if this is you, go ahead justify this less than, in my opion, acceptable behavior.

Penny

I can not belive you actually asked this question

In a word NO
Why would you think that most women on a day to day basis exude more feminity that all of us crossdressers will ever be able to do

This post only made me think mmmmm ??? I always wondered what how it would feel to live in STEPFORD

You seem to think all GG's should be Stepford Wives:Angry3:

There are many and varied reason why women (and not just women) are not in the best attire they have on a daily basis

People have busy lives and dont have the time or the inclination to get all dressed up to go to the local store or supermarket

I would be very surprised if anyone looks their best every day

[Kieron Andrew]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jere Oneil http://crossdressers.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=692013#post692013)
No disrespect meant to the FTM dressers, but I just don't like women wearing manly things


But thats where we differ! we are not women! well i know im not!

[EricaCD]

Ordinarily I'd not dignify this thread with a response, on the theory that starvation is the best punishment for trolls. However, given that Penny is a regular here, I'll just say I disagree utterly with her post and am personally mortified that any man (CD or not) still has/expresses such opinions.

Disgraceful.

[Ashley in Virginia]

...

[Kieron Andrew]

5 pages later and Penny has not been back to defend why she said what she did?? hmmmmmm.........

[GypsyKaren]

Okay, let's keep this civil...feel free to disagree and state your opinions, but I do know Penny well enough to say that she's certainly not a troll. While I don't share her views on this, she is a very nice person who is always kind to everyone, so just try to be nice too.

Karen

[Ashley in Virginia]

5 pages later and Penny has not been back to defend why she said what she did?? hmmmmmm.........

Because she is probably still laughing knowing the commotion she started before she left. There is obviously no real purpose to this thread other than to start crap. Penny has been around the forums enough to know what pushes buttons and what doesn't.

[Sharon]

5 pages later and Penny has not been back to defend why she said what she did?? hmmmmmm.........


Give her a chance to defend herself -- this thread was created only six some hours ago. Maybe Penny has a job. :happy:

[Amanda Jane]

she did not hit the right button / she played the entire perfect major third chord / like Pavlov's dog they all came running

[kerrianna]

Penny, I didn't know you were into masochism!

:devil: :bonk: :dom: :spank: :slap: :naughty :gg: :beatup:

...only reason I can think of to start this thread - you must have known what the reaction would be.

Did you used to poke hornet's nests when you were a kid too? Silly girl. :rolleyes:

:Playnice:

[Casey Morgan]

Okay, let's keep this civil...feel free to disagree and state your opinions, but I do know Penny well enough to say that she's certainly not a troll. While I don't share her views on this, she is a very nice person who is always kind to everyone, so just try to be nice too.

Karen

:iagree:

Penny is a respected member of this community. This thread seems out of character for her. That's one for what, eight hundred something?

[Julie York]

Sheesh! It's like watching someone being savaged by rabid dogs. :eek: Poor lass.


O.K. In the interests of making people think......

If you take out the hysteria of "women having the right to look like a bag of spanners etc".....I think Penny's post (and her age) reflect an observation which was not meant the way it was taken. I think it could have been expressed a little differently, but it is more an observation of how times have changed. (Well that's how I read it anyway.)

I think anyone over 30 will recall that their Mothers did not go anywhere socially important without 'making an effort'. My own Mother would never dream of going to town, church or event without a little primping. It just wasn't done because it was seen as a reflection of your self esteem and pride to be well presented. (Those times did not, however, prevent women from going to the local shops wearing curlers and a head scarf and fluffy slippers.)

The same went for men.....who, on a Friday night would wear their best suit. The argument works equally well against modern men.

Also, with many CD posts there is an element of wistfulness. A feeling of "What a waste" that a pretty woman squanders the pleasure of being able to dress up when she can.

I have been on this site two years and I am sure the Mods can back me up when I say this type of post, with the very same sentiments, is expressed on the forum about every 3 months or so. It has less to do with knocking GGs as such, and more to do with expressing a regret that women have this wonderful opportunity that a CD envies and doesn't use.

In the cold light of day this view is not practical or reasonable in modern society, but it is commonly expressed on a CD forum.

[carla smith]

I always try to see the lighter side of things especially when they no sense at all.

This is what Penny asked us.

"So if this is you, go ahead justify this less than, in my opinion, acceptable behavior." Penny.

The escape clause is "if this is you"

Of course this applies to no one....so the question is moot!

I had a college professor (He was a dean, so he could get away with about anything) that would ask the craziest questions in class, just to stimulate the discussion....way to go Professor Penny!

Have fun out there!
But fun doesn't just happen. You have to make it a priority in your life or it'll go missing. Life's too short to not have it.

[Kate Simmons]

Very well said Julie. Whatever Penny's intentions were, I sincerely doubt it was meant to put anyone down or hurt anyone's feelings. Penny just likes looking pretty and well, I guess she feels that GG's dressing up could make the world even prettier, that's all.:happy:

[Kelsy]

It would have been safer to post another panty thread!!!:heehee:


Jennifer:D

[Kieron Andrew]

It would have been safer to post another panty thread!!!:heehee:


Jennifer:D
What??? :eek: with Tamara as Admin??? do you reckon???

[goofus]

In my opinion , Men have a responsibility , as the strong rugged sex , to live up to it. /sarcasm



We crossdressers should be the first peoples to promote liberty to dress, wear and look anyway we feel like . Not impose our standards like the rest of the society is doing to us :(

If we can't accept different ways of doing stuff , how can expect other to do the same for us .

I'd have to agree, Ariel...

[Kelsy]

Hey Kieron!

The catch word there was safer---not at all safe with the likes of our beloved
admin!!:D :eek:

Jennifer

[Susan Johnson]

I probably shouldn't even get into this, because, I'm mainly an "underdresser" at least as far as the public thing goes. But I will ad my two cents worth. I think GGs look nice, almost no matter what they wear. I will say, however that I think women look at their best when they are dressed up in something feminine. But, for the GGs, I do respect your need for comfort, and like I said, a pretty girl is pretty even when she isn't all dolled up

Dare I enter this topic. Most, if not all women look far better as nature intended than we males do with or without makeup. My wife usually wears trousers because that is the most practical form of dress for her. She seldom wears makeup but has no need to. She looks good without artificial enhancements. If we are going out somewhere then manner of dress and appearance are different. Under normal circumstances I am a self declared scruff, (working clothes are practical not elegant as work may involve getting dirty) To go out in male mode getting ready takes about half an hour, my wife takes a similar time to get ready. If I want to get ready to go out in female garb it will take me two hours and my wife will still look better than I can. Not all female jobs require the person to look glamourous and most people will dress as is required for the occasion.:2c: :2c:
Susan

[Sharona GG]

I believe I am pretty laid back and don't let things get to me BUT
How shallow of you to sit back and say what you think the GG's should wear :Angry3: :Angry3: who are you to tell us to wear make up cause we are the 'pretty sex'. Obviously you haven't heard the expression 'Don't judge a book by its cover'! I for one being a GG dress for comfort and if that means jeans and a t-shirt with no make up then so be it. Remember Jealousy is a curse!!! :mad: :mad:

[Marcie Sexton]

I'm all for the girlie girl stuff, it works for me...:heehee:

If it ain't tore up done mess with it...if the gg's are comfortable good for them...my wife lives in sweats and my "fat" tees..and I'm perfectly comfortable with that too...:rolleyes:

...I suppose that the reason for "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" :2c:

If it works for them < no offense gg's >, it dang well works for me...

[Bonnie D]

My job does not require that I wear a suit and tie to the office, dress pants and shirt are sufficient. If I started wearing a suit and tie my wife would wonder who I'm trying to impress. She really likes it when I do get dressed up which is usually when we're going to a wedding and I like it when she gets dressed up which is usually also for weddings. So, a reason to dress is a big part of the issue. Why would I be dressed up (meaning male clothes) if I didn't have a reason to be? Same for her.

I also work with a lot of women and they dress comfortably, most wear slacks and appropriate blouses or sweaters, and sometimes skirts. I do admit to thinking that if I was a GG I would be wearing skirts most of the time to the office but do I really know what I would do? What if my husband wanted to know why I was always wearing a skirt if I didn't have to, who was I trying to impress? Also, would I be comfortable? Who's eyes am I attracting? What a woman wears is a bigger issue than we think.

The "Shame on you, GGs" was not an appropriate title to begin with and the topic is very shortsighted. However, it definitely stirred up the pot for viewpoints, I don't think you can call it a discussion. Also, I'm sure Penny has been PM'd with a lot of messages, hopefully she hasn't been threatened. I'm sure she has realised that she could have broached the subject in a different manner or just thought about it a bit longer and didn't post it at all.

Bonnie

[Kate Simmons]

The best part about it Bonnie was that it stimulated many to tell how they really feel. I consider the whole thing a learning experience. I accept everyone for who they are and value their viewpoint. How would we know sometimes unless something like this comes up and we get to know what each other is thinking? I never assume I know how anyone else feels and I do appreciate the insight.:happy:

[NatalieBliss]

I am sure many nice things can be said about Penny. I'm also sure if I posted all of my thoughts on the world more than a few of them would bring down hellfire and brimstone from keyboards across the world. I am also sure that if you really thought about it you would realize the same thing about yourself. Differences are the spice of life. This forum would get quite boring if everyone was always "oh quite right, we are in prefect agreement" That being said I have to agree with Sharon and others that keeping comments to the topic and not personal attacks is polite, civil, and just the plain old right thing to do. All that being said I stand by my first statement in this thread. Which I will type bellow this rather wordy post (for me anyway) in case you missed/don't remember it and since I stated that I stand by it still:

I really can't believe that a crossdresser would have this opinion. Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

[RobertaFermina]

Dear Penny,

I have known Genetic Women who have held the same view as you posted. So I see what you have said as unremarkable, however off-putting it has been.

I trust that you were expressing a judgement based on values that have served you in a good way.

Is there a better way you can express yourself, or offer amends, now that you have seen the many responses to your posting ?

Even when you remain fixed and proud of your initial message, I would dearly like to hear your "voice" among us once again.

My want is that no one is alienated through this thread, and certainly not you.

Love,

Roberta

[Cheryl GG]

....you can look in the mirror and write those words ??????????? ....and even with all the right makeup and all the right clothes....you will still be.....a guy......and me....no matter what I wear or dont wear....I will always be....well, a woman.....and yea you did mean to piss GGs off or you would have rethought that header......

[Sedona]

OMG, that Troll poster by Ashley in Jersey is a riot! I can't stop laughing, thanks.

As for Penny, I'm coming late to your little Texas sized tea party, but I've got something new for ya:

What'cha bench? Can you press your body weight or more? How about rebuild a 4-barrel carb? Or, throw a good hard uppercut without dislocating a finger (or five)? No? Why not, it's what all men are supposed to be able to do, right? FYI-I can do one of these things really well, one on a good day, and one not at all, but that makes no difference in how folks perceive my masculinity in my drab life.

Welcome to the 20th century, no wait, the 21st century.

[Julie York]

....you can look in the mirror and write those words ??????????? ....and even with all the right makeup and all the right clothes....you will still be.....a guy......and me....no matter what I wear or dont wear....I will always be....well, a woman.....and yea you did mean to piss GGs off or you would have rethought that header.....

Your post has little to do with the subject at hand and a lot to do with a very mean and unpleasant personal attack on a member of the forum that quite a lot of us like.

I suggest you rethink your wording.

[Kelsy]

Dear Penny,

I have known Genetic Women who have held the same view as you posted. So I see what you have said as unremarkable, however off-putting it has been.

I trust that you were expressing a judgement based on values that have served you in a good way.

Is there a better way you can express yourself, or offer amends, now that you have seen the many responses to your posting ?

Even when you remain fixed and proud of your initial message, I would dearly like to hear your "voice" among us once again.

My want is that no one is alienated through this thread, and certainly not you.

Love,

Roberta

Before this gets totally out of hand, It seems we are all a little sensitive and defensive -- It's not like any of us here are perfect, maybe it's time to cut Penny a little slack and show just how accepting and loving we all can be-- what do you say and Roberta:thumbsup:

[b_hewish]

Yes i will be one of the first to admit i can do my make up in 45 seconds but at the same time it take me just under 20 minutes to do my husbands :devil:
so yes GG are lazy and im on the top of the list
:sorry:

[Sophia Rearen]

Penny, if I were you, I'd put on my cast iron panties... this isn't going to be pretty...

No truer words have been spoken.

[Country girl]

Damn, how did I get so lucky to come in on this so late??? Penny, needless to say you DID open up a can of worms. Let me point out that not ALL gg's were born beautiful or even when fully made up don't look spectacular. Unfortunately that is the hand they were dealt. Just like some men are homelier than sin. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean they aren't some of the sweetest people you will ever meet. What a complete sexiest way to start the day.:eek: I happen to be one of the fortunate ones. My avatar pic is me sitting at the head of our bed with very little makeup, messed up hair and 48 years old I might add. Don't think that I don't know how lucky I am to have been blessed with good genes. But some of my best friends, no matter how hard they try will never look like I do without trying. You woke up this morning with your claws out and sharpened. The saddest part of this whole thread? You will never be a GG, will never know what we go through from day to day, and will never have to put up with the SHI* that we put up with from our CDing SO's, BF's or husbands and you gurl will never have the insight that a GG has. When all is said and done, you should walk a day in our shoes, and BTW, we don't wear 4" stilletos everywhere we go.:tongueout You need to come out of hiding and issue a HUGE apologie to GG's everywhere. You're lucky I'm stuck here in Texas or I would have to come whup your A**.:devil: Which BTW I am completely capable of doing!:D

[Bethanygirl]

Penny, I feel for you girl, we have all put our foot in our mouths in our time. You seem to have managed to get both of them in there this time though! You have always seemed like someone who is completely sweet and forgiveable, and I am certain everyone here does forgive your gaff, and you. Please remember how supportive these people all are, and how broad-minded. You see, they are reacting to what you said in your perhaps ill-considered post, they are not really reacting to you peronally. Please let us know how you are doing after all this negativism towards your post, we all wish you well!
:love:

[Sophia Rearen]

You're lucky I'm stuck here in Texas or I would have to come whup your A**.:devil: Which BTW I am completely capable of doing!:D

Penny is from Texas as well. Is there a big ol Texas cat fight in the offing? Meow, Hsss!

[Kelsy]

Damn You're lucky I'm stuck here in Texas or I would have to come whup your A**.:devil: Which BTW I am completely capable of doing!:D

hey girl friend
Certainly there is alot of truth to that statement:D but really folks did any one bring any hotdogs or maybe some marshmallows to this roast :eek: man that fires hot. Good reminder to always be self deprecating!!


Jennifer:tongueout

[Jane GG]

You must be kdding me?! This is just a joke, right? How could such a completely hypocritical, sexist comment be made? Because I don't coat my face in waxes and artificial colours, I'm unattractive? Tell the Ivory Girl she's hideous because she is natural! Because I don't wear heels everytime I go out, I am "unfeminine"? You scathe us for saying we would make you feel unmasculine for wearing certain clothing, yet it is acceptable to tell us we are unfeminine for NOT wearing something? Maybe I'm more accepting because I don't live and die by the feminine/masculine roles set by society. Would you rather have a society of women who accept anyone for how they dress or be unaccepted and have us all dress like Donna Reed?! Make up your mind! Stop acting like you want your cake and to eat it too lest you choke on it! Last time I checked pretty does not equate to how much makeup I wear or what heels I am in. How superficial your statement is and so incredibly offensive! You don't want to be judged? Well don't expect from others what you don't expect from yourself!

[Jane GG]

And I think you'd better think twice about who should be shamed!

[Sharon]

I don't think anything will be served by leaving this thread open any longer.

Penny, if you would like to say something -- a defense, a clarification, or whatever, please contact me and I will open the thread again.