Study

[Evert]

It isn't a CD, TG,..., question but I would like to have some opinions on it.

Some of you might know I study webdesign. It's gonna take 4 years and I alread done 2,5 of it. But for some months now I lost my motevation. I feel like that al the work I do is just some kind of hobby and the thought of doing it for a living freaks me out.

Some of you might also know I would like to be a bouncer or security guy. I already searched for information of the study. I would like to try it. It's only one year of study.

But I'm confused now. What should I do. Throw away those 2,5 years of hard work, hoping the new study is better? Or stay another 1,5 year at school hoping it will become better?

I don't know...

At this moment I would love to just go to school, say "I QUIT" and run off!
I better decide quickly because I have to search for a company for workexperience and work there for 5 months. I don't want that!

What should I do? What should you do?

And how will I tell my parents? They paid my study and I have no idea how they will feel about it.

Damn....

[pocoyo]

Well... is there any chance of leaving the course for now and starting again from where you left-off some time in the future? Sometimes people can do that here. I think in some people, it would take some major willpower to make yourself go back when you've got used to not being there though.

I know how it feels to lose motivation in a college course because it happened to me. I got ill in the last year of mine and it was so difficult to complete. But I'm glad I did.

I think that if it's only 1.5 years left that it might be worth finishing, you know. It is great to have a skill and a qualification in that skill, especially in a modern area like web design. Even if you don't want web design as your main career it is always good to have something to "fall back on" (haha that's what parents always say isn't it? lol!!) It's true though, because, if in the future you find yourself short on cash, web design is something you could do freelance from home and earn some extra money, even while being a security guy!

Is there a security guy course you could do part-time while you're still at college? (Mind you, that might be too much to cope with - doing 2 studies at once).

Maybe you should finish the course, get the rest of the skills and the qualification under your belt (and please your parents that their money was well spent, plus feeling all happy and smug at your cleverness hehe) and then do the security guy thing. You will be a little older then too and more likely to be respected as a security person? You might even be further along your trans journey which could help you too?

Good luck with whatever you decide my friend :)

[Edit: I just had another thought: If you want to transition in the future, you can earn some good money in web design, which could help pay for operations etc. So that could be a motivation to spur you on to feel inspired and complete the rest of your course! Also, from your pixelart you seem to be rather skilled and deft at pc stuff, and it seems like you enjoy it... it would be a shame to waste that talent :)]

[Kieron Andrew]

1.5years left, id wait it out and finish it, most school/college terms are only about 9months of the year, so really you havent got that long til you finish.....to me it would a total waste of the effort you have already put in......the security course will be there when you have finished! and of course it will be another thing on your C.V to show your creativity off!.......people are crying out for webdesigner's, there is good money to be made in it, even as a partime side job, and if you go freelance you can basically charge what you wish......trust me its an invaluable skill to have for the future

[Evert]

thanks Poc's :) Oh and Kieron. :)

Fact is if I quit now that I got all the knowledge I need. The last 1,5 year is only working and a project in the end which counts as an exam. As far as theory, I won't get any lessons anymore. And I heard that when I quit now, I will get a paper which says I know the theory, but I didn't finish.

[pocoyo]

Ah, but one thing to consider there is: A potential employer may be put off by the fact that you didn't finish, even if you are very skilled. They won't know the personal reasons you stopped and may see you as a "quitter". :eek:

Believe me, potential employers can be really harsh. I knew one lady that used to deal with CVs/Resumes and if one wasn't laid-out quite right she would just throw it in the bin without even reading it! Thats harshness without even reading the qualifications!
An employer will definitely be more impressed with a finished qualification. (As annoying and frustrating as that is).

Although.....in some freelance work you can get away with not even showing your CV and can sometimes be judged on the strength of your work alone....

[Kieron Andrew]

And I heard that when I quit now, I will get a paper which says I know the theory, but I didn't finish.
but....if you then wish sometime in the future to get a career using this skill, you would have to go back and do the exam bit before any employer would even think of looking at you.....like i said previously that seems like a waste of time and effort to me because you really havent got that much time left......id wait it out!

[Evert]

Although.....in some freelance work you can get away with not even showing your CV and can sometimes be judged on the strength of your work alone....

Just like (I don't know how you call it, a designer who furnishes your house by matching the candles to the walls to the chairs to the carpets ;) ) you don't have to have a finished qualification. ANYONE can call himself a webdesigner. That's why I'm confused on quiting or not. WHY would I stay? I got the theory, I don't want to do it for a living, and a finished qualification isn't neccesary for a job...! :straightface:

[pocoyo]

If anyone can be a web designer (true, true)... then doesn't one with a qualification in it, that he can show, stand out as being better and more professional than the rest? :p

[Lisa Golightly]

I'd finish it, but then I'm a completist and therefore quite anal about such things :) If I get given a perfume I hate I'll use it rather than throw it away, or read a book I don't like to the end.

Does your placement have to be with a company? Can't you approach a charity or a transgender society and work for them? They all have designers I guess.

The qualification may not be needed, but in this corporate world finishing something means you're, in the words of Sir Humphrey Appleby (Yes Minister), 'Sound'. :)

[Kieron Andrew]

it also looks good for future employers no matter what your chosen career that you can finish a task, given or chosen!

[Lisa Golightly]

it also looks good for future employers no matter what your chosen career that you can finish a task given or chosen!

Exactly Minister ;)

[Kieron Andrew]

Exactly Minister ;)
:hugs: :heehee:

[Evert]

Does your placement have to be with a company? Can't you approach a charity or a transgender society and work for them? They all have designers I guess.

It would be wonderful if I could! But it has to be a company, a webdesign company. (Logical?)

[pocoyo]

it also looks good for future employers no matter what your chosen career that you can finish a task, given or chosen!

Yeah, precisely!

[Kieron Andrew]

Yeah, precisely!
i knew i woke up feeling funny today.....i have my logical head screwed on the right way for once lol

[Lisa Golightly]

It would be wonderful if I could! But it has to be a company, a webdesign company. (Logical?)

Logical and limiting... I love creative courses, they tend to want to harness you before you express yourself. :)

Best you can do is knock at the door of those with the most wayout and funky clients.

[pocoyo]

i knew i woke up feeling funny today.....i have my logical head screwed on the right way for once lol


Haha!! Well I may come to you later for some advice if you're in a sensible, logical mood... watch out! :eek:
*Tries to think of a problem to get solved....*

Hmmm... well Agony Uncle Kieron...does have a certain ring to it....:heehee:

[Evert]

Logical and limiting... I love creative courses, they tend to want to harness you before you express yourself. :)

Best you can do is knock at the door of those with the most wayout and funky clients.


It's always surprising how limiting a creative school can be..

[Kieron Andrew]

Haha!! Well I may come to you later for some advice if you're in a sensible, logical mood... watch out! :eek:
*Tries to think of a problem to get solved....*

Hmmm... well Agony Uncle Kieron...does have a certain ring to it....:heehee:
lol you're silly but i like it hehee:hugs: , my door or PM's are always open for anyone who wants advice

[pocoyo]

lol you're silly but i like it hehee:hugs: , my door or PM's are always open for anyone who wants advice

Yay! Awww, you're the best :hugs:
*sings* isn't he love-lyy... (hehe I'll probably get a slap now).

[Casey Morgan]

Evert, can I ask you a personal question? You say that the thought of doing [webdesign] for a living freaks you out. What freaks you out about it?

[Evert]

Evert, can I ask you a personal question? You say that the thought of doing [webdesign] for a living freaks you out. What freaks you out about it?

I like the work, the scripts, the whole process of putting a site together. But I like it because I can put my own creativity in it. All the pages I made, I made them how I liked it. If I have to do it for a living, I have to make sure the CLIENT likes it.

So for me it's more like a hobby. I now know how to make one, so when I have time I script a page for myself, or a friend or my dad. But they all let it depend on me. "I don't care as long is it isn't pink" you know? I don't have that freedom when it's my work. So I don't think I will ever let that be my job!

It's not that I can't work with an assignment but the fun is gone for me if I have to stay with all those 'rules' "I want it blue and gray, font times, java menu, and I would like to have the menu on top, oh and....".
So why would I continue my study when I'm going to hate my job? :(

[Evert]

Okay i just mailed the schoolcounselor the whole question. She already knows me so I thought it would be the best to ask her about it all...

Now I'll wait for reply... :sad:

[Casey Morgan]

From what I understand Evert you'll find a lot of clients of both types. If you're going to freelance or even set up your own company you can cater to the type you prefer. And actually I'm not all that sure that you're going to find all that many that have requirements that are quite that specific.

I'm the webmaster for a software company. We're currently redesigning the website. Even here they had an idea of what they were looking for but there was so much latitude it was almost overwhelming for me. (Yeah, it's that self image/self-esteem thing again.) But I mocked something up in Photoshop and they loved it. The requirements? "You see this website? Can we do something like that?" Basically they wanted more graphics, a "cleaner" look than what we have now, and a more standard implementation of the "about/contact/support" link triad.

Seriously, if you enjoy web design stick with it. I think you'll find there's much more room for your personal stamp/style than you're thinking. If you haven't already, check out some webmaster forums. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people complain "they don't know what the h*** they want!" Usually they mean the client isn't really clear on the requirements.

[Evert]

From what I understand Evert you'll find a lot of clients of both types. If you're going to freelance or even set up your own company you can cater to the type you prefer. And actually I'm not all that sure that you're going to find all that many that have requirements that are quite that specific.

I'm the webmaster for a software company. We're currently redesigning the website. Even here they had an idea of what they were looking for but there was so much latitude it was almost overwhelming for me. (Yeah, it's that self image/self-esteem thing again.) But I mocked something up in Photoshop and they loved it. The requirements? "You see this website? Can we do something like that?" Basically they wanted more graphics, a "cleaner" look than what we have now, and a more standard implementation of the "about/contact/support" link triad.

Seriously, if you enjoy web design stick with it. I think you'll find there's much more room for your personal stamp/style than you're thinking. If you haven't already, check out some webmaster forums. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people complain "they don't know what the h*** they want!" Usually they mean the client isn't really clear on the requirements.

Is that true? That's really something different than they tell us here at school. :eek:

[bi_weird]

Is there anyway you can go to school part time? Maybe give yourself a brain break and work part time while studying part time. I've had some friends where either part time or a semester off was the perfect thing. They'd been having hard times, and just needed a break, and came back better than ever.

[Evert]

that's not a bad idea. I will search for info on that one.. :D

[Tamara Croft]

You should do what you feel is right for you, but be sure before you throw it all away. However, companies that employ you for web design, don't always want a CV, they want sample websites to look at, what kind of coding you can do etc. My brother has no qualifications in that area, but now works for a company designing websites for clients. He said to me, 'I don't care what's on their CV, doesn't mean they can design s**t'!!!

You need to think about your future, if you want to transition, you're going to need a lot of money for that. Is there money more in website design or being a bouncer?

[pocoyo]

I design and upkeep a website and basically I do whatever I want and present the ideas. The client then gives you feedback and you can alter it accordingly, but you are the one really in control. It was like that when I was a traineee graphic designer too. My friend also does web design (he is really good) and he presents ideas and people usually just wants them as they are and hardly change anything about it I think.
They just say what they want in relation to your ideas really. Or give you a rough idea.


Sorry if this doesn't make too much sense... I'm a tad frazzled and my brain's not making sense hahaha.

[Dasein9]

When I was an undergrad (in Theatre!) I heard Ming Cho Lee speak at a conference. Lee's pretty much the world's premier scenic designer.

He was classically trained as an artist in the Chinese tradition, but said that he prefers theatre because the limitations of the script and directing give his creativity a kind of springboard from which he can push off and gain more momentum in a creative sense. A blank canvas is all well and good, but when limitations are added to a project, the limitations themselves force the designer to be creative in new and different ways.

It sounds as though web design may -- if you can find the right niche -- give the same kind of creativity-inspiring limitations. Or it could be pure drudgery. Sounds like it depends on the company and the clients. And if you complete your education, I should think you'd have that much more of an edge to put yourself in a position to choose the company that's right for you.

[Casey Morgan]

Pocoyo, that's pretty much my experience too. (And you made perfect sense to me.) The one thing we web people have to keep in mind is that most people wouldn't know a CSS selector from a doctype declaration. They know what they see on the screen and they rely on you to make it look that way. The coding and such is all black box to them.

[Kimberley]

Hi Evert,
I can only say this. Follow your passion and you will be happy. There is no shame in tossing a field of study you have come to realize isnt for you. BUT (and this is a big but) if this leads to a bacculaureate degree you might want to finish it first if for no other reason than to have the sheepskin.

I was a damned good engineer for 30 years and hated every minute of it. What a waste except that it gave me a decent living.

So, in short; Been there, done that, got the tee shirt and burned it. Follow your heart first.

Keep us posted.

:hugs:
Kimberley

[Evert]

First of all. Thank you pocoyo, Kieron, Lisa, Shari_Ann, bi_weird, Tamara, Dasein and Kimberley. :hugs:

Next Tuesday I've got a appointment with the schoolcouncelor. She is part of the school so she knows more about it than me. I'm just gonna wait for that. I hope I know something more by then. :)

[Evert]

Next Tuesday I've got a appointment with the schoolcouncelor. She is part of the school so she knows more about it than me. I'm just gonna wait for that. I hope I know something more by then. :)

Well, just got home. And still doesn't know what to do. She just gave me more to worry about and not one thing to hold on to.

I really feel lost in the middle... I'm confused, lost and worried.

All I know for now is that I smoked too much today and I shouldn't drink 2 beer between 1 and 3 p.m. ....

[Xaff]

Hey Evert,

If you are on an MBO school you always can take a nivo 3 diploma. And not the nivo 4. And then do the other study. Becose then you only have a half year to go.

What type school do you have by the way: MBO, HBO, WO?

Groetjes,
Morgan.

(Only the Dutch will understand this message. :D )

[Evert]

Hey Evert,

If you are on an MBO school you always can take a nivo 3 diploma. And not the nivo 4. And then do the other study. Becose then you only have a half year to go.

What type school do you have by the way: MBO, HBO, WO?

Groetjes,
Morgan.

(Only the Dutch will understand this message. :D )

Goedemiddag Morgan! :D Ik doe nivo 4. Hoe zit dat dan met dat nivo 3 diploma? Oh ja en MBO.

(This message is in Dutch, just because I'm being lazy. I'm just explaining Morgan my level of study.:p )

[Xaff]

Hoi Evert,

Ik heb 2 jaar MBO gevolgd, maar omdat die school niet goed les gaf ben ik naar de HAVO gegaan. Ik deed eerst ook nivo 4.
Mijn vriendin bijvoorbeeld deed eerst nivo 3, maar omdat ze geen zin meer had in 1 jaar langer is ze met een nivo 2 diploma van school gegaan. Bij ons gelde voor ieder nivo dat je bepaalde dingen moet hebben afgesloten. En uiteindelijk krijg je daar dan je diploma van.

Dus ik zou denken dat als je aan het eind van dit jaar alle dingen die je moet afsluiten voor dat MBO-nivo 3 diploma heb afgesloten je gewoon dat nivo 3 diploma moet kunnen krijgen. Zo werkte het bij ons wel.

Misschien zou je dat morgen eens kunnen vragen of je geen nivo 3 diploma zou kunnen halen/krijgen. Want dan ben je idd over een half jaar klaar. Wel een voordeel: Diploma en je kunt aan die andere studie beginnen die je wilt. Is die MBO studie toch niet helemaal verloren.

Groetjes,
Morgan.

[Evert]

Dat klinkt nog niet eens zo slecht! :straightface:
Mmmhhh maar eens gaan onderhandelen.

Probleem dat ik hier niet heb vermeld, ik moet eigenlijk op stage. 9 jan had ik moeten beginnen maar ik wou niet. Wil ik niet stoppen moet ik dus snel aan het werk om alsnog een plek te vinden. Maar ik kan niet zomaar stoppen als ik een stage heb! Ik heb het hier niet uitgelegd omdat ik het woord voor stage niet kon vinden... :heehee:

[Amanda Jane]

in the real world for the most part it does not matter what the degree was in / or your gpa / but it is important to be able to say 'yes' in that box when it asks for it

we live in a very competitive world / when all those resumes pile up on someones desk they have to sort them / and one of the first sorts is graduates on the pile / non-graduates in the trash / if i have 50 people with degrees / why bother with the people who don't

and yes, find freelance work / not for profit is good / find some band that is just starting out and do one for them / its good to have real work in your pocket also

[Xaff]

Dat klinkt nog niet eens zo slecht! :straightface:
Mmmhhh maar eens gaan onderhandelen.

Probleem dat ik hier niet heb vermeld, ik moet eigenlijk op stage. 9 jan had ik moeten beginnen maar ik wou niet. Wil ik niet stoppen moet ik dus snel aan het werk om alsnog een plek te vinden. Maar ik kan niet zomaar stoppen als ik een stage heb! Ik heb het hier niet uitgelegd omdat ik het woord voor stage niet kon vinden... :heehee:

Onderhandelingen zijn altijd goed om te proberen. Als je trouwens een woord niet weet: http://www.ewoutboers.nl/vertaalwoordenboek.htm Translation in every lanquage you would like.

Stage = training period

Je zou ook nog je kunnen aanmelden op scholieren.com dat is echt een scholieren site met forum. Bij school en studie staan ook veel van dit soort vragen. En sommige hebben ervaring met zulke onderwerpen.

Groetjes,
Morgan.

[Evert]

Well I got another appointment with my schoolcouncelor. We also talked about my ftm being and about a lot of other stuff. The first time in years I cried... It was so relieving and in the same time I felt so.. vulnerable.

I agreed on getting help with my training period. My teacher and the guy who takes care of my training period will be informed of my genderproblems. So they know whats going on with me and they can help when needed. I'll get a training period inside school. Close to the people who can help me.

So I'll stay at school afterall.... I feel a little scared on letting my teacher know how I feel... I know it will be better for me.. but still...

Ah well... we'll see what happens next.. :hugs:

[Amanda Jane]

good choice, wise decision - learn all you can

a friend of mine reading this over my shoulder wants me to tell you that the hardest thing you will ever do on ANY job, is to get the job in the first place. So whatever you can bring to that effort will pay off. I work harder getting freelance jobs then any of the work I do for the contract itself. I'm sure about that.

[Casey Morgan]

:hugs: Wow, so you have things happening both with your education and your... well, I'm not sure if "gender issues" is the right phrase but I hope you know what I mean. I'm sure everything is going to be great for you. It sounds like it took courage to talk to your teacher about being FTM. Good for you for doing what you needed to do.

I really hope your schooling goes well for you. It sounds like you really enjoy being a web designer. It would be nice to get paid for doing what you love to do.

[Kimberley]

Evert, let me say this. As an instructor, I WANT to know if my students have problems that get in the way of their learning. It allows me to work around those issues so my students succeed. That is the ultimate goal, to see my students succeed. Your instructors are likely no different.

Chin up, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

:hugs:
Kimberley

[Xaff]

Good look with school Evert. :thumbsup:
I hope you will enjoy it again. :D

Groetjes,
Morgan.