Its Own Beauty.

[Marla S]

As you might have realized I am a bit round the bend concerning this "look-like-a-GG" thing (my problem not yours; I try to work on it).

Nevertheless:

-Makeover studios seem to offer exclusively this look (probably because of the demand).
-Some even define crossdressing by this look ("if you don't doll up to the nines, that is not crossdressing" or somthing like that).
-If someone posts in the galery section without the intention to achieve that look, you can bet there will be replys with the advice to style "better" to achieve it.
-Others moan that even some GGs don't "try" to achieve that look anymore.
etc.

Despite of all this 90 % of the posts in the galery section would get a clear NO from me, taking the criterium literaly (despite these pictures are usually selected, some are even photoshopped).

BUT most look nevertheless beautiful, though not like a GG.
Some others could profit from a less forced attempt to achieve this "look-like-a-GG" look.
Maybe some more might dare to post pics if they would rather be judged by their style than by this criterium they might think failing anyway.

I am positive that each single one of us is able to achieve a convincing, attractive, feminine (and sexy) style, though only a few blessed come easy close to the "look-like-a-GG" look.

Is it the lack of models and orientation ?
What makes a good combination of authentic (masculine) body features and a feminie style so unattractive, when most of us fail to achieve the GGs' look anyway ?

[tvbeckytv]

absolutely agree with you.
Its perfectly possible to look appropriate to wear a dress without looking like a female. 1 in 100 truely pass, but the rest of us can be so much more than a bloke in a dress once we accept that

[Kate Simmons]

Yep, that's what I do Marla. All of the pics I use for my avatars are the "raw shots" I use from a little camera at home. I know that even on my "best" day, I can't come even close to looking like a GG. I would be fooling myself if I did. My look is good enough for ME however and that's what counts. As I said in another thread, I have to question my own motives sometimes as to why I'm doing this, other than the fact that I like to do it and it's fun and it makes me feel good. I've seen the videos on "deportment", etc. and have realized that stuff is not for me. I don't talk or walk any differently and don't go overboard on my look. In fact I just returned from the club after a night of dancing and being with my friends and had a blast. So, for me at least, It's like you say, I go by the look of myself as a CD and don't even worry about being "perfect" about it. I just don't have time for that.:happy:

[kerrianna]

Oh, you dancin' fool Ericka/Rich :dance: :dancing: :GD: :twirl:

Yeah, who has time to do everything the average guy has to to pass? It takes GG's long enough to look glamorous like we all imagine ourselves looking like, and they START with a huge advantage. We've got to get ourselves into female shape first, THEN start looking good. THEN we have to cram a lifetime of training and social skills that GGs get into an instant product of walking and talking the part. Not that it can't be done...it's just lot of blooming work if you're not doing it all the time.

I think that a lot of the pics that people post here aren't seriously meant to be "Do I Pass?" even when they ask that. It's more of do you like the way I look? If you do like it, you say nice things, maybe say nice things anyway knowing how much work and nerve it took for those pics to get there. And you're right Marla most do look beautiful as a reflection of themselves, not nec. as a passable GG.

I think it's natural for most of us to want to see how close we can come to looking like a real girl, after all that's what in a lot of our hearts. It's the same for the FTMs likely. You're trying to find an image of yourself that matches what you're feeling inside. There's a lot of frustration that comes from that quest - I've read it many times over on this forum, at least once today too.

Those that do have pics where you think holy # she's got to be a GG! are an inspiration and a curse to the rest of us, just like supermodels are to GGs. You want to look like them, but if you haven't got a lot of what they got, good luck. So the next best thing - be yourself. Play with what you've got and let your own beauty come out. Lots of GGs have to deal with it too you know. Women have an enormous pressure to look attractive and if you don't you either back out completely or you 'force' the issue and still don't get that look. It's not just us that are trying too hard.

As for myself, I DO want to see what I could look like if I work on it, but I already know I'm going to look like me with a different slant. Because I've always had some feminine features as a male I'm used to seeing myself not as one or the other, so I'm not expecting to subliminate one aspect of me. I know that duality is what keeps my SO attracted to me when I am dressed. She's used to both sides of me, even if the male side has always been predominant. I actually like seeing the way some of my masculine features stand out when I'm dressed. It just reminds me that I'm a complex interesting being. I see what is attractive about me, male or female, blended together, but what I like to see is what is attractive.

I ignore the flabby bits :heehee: .

[dods460]

I am positive that each single one of us is able to achieve a convincing, attractive, feminine (and sexy) style, though only a few blessed come easy close to the "look-like-a-GG" look.

Yes, yes, yes, I couldn't have put it better myself. I feel that being a transvestite makes it so that you have your very own "style", now don't get me wrong I can only say how I feel, however when I get done up, I am a guy in a dress and make up, I'm in no way a GG so why should I completely hide the fact that I am a proud member of the male persuation.

[Marla S]

... but the rest of us can be so much more than a bloke in a dress once we accept that
Exactly:thumbsup:


My look is good enough for ME however and that's what counts.
Well, that's why I like you. I tend to believe that this approach would be more readily accepted than every attempt to pretend to be someone you are not.


We've got to get ourselves into female shape first, THEN start looking good. THEN we have to cram a lifetime of training and social skills that GGs get into an instant product of walking and talking the part. Not that it can't be done...it's just lot of blooming work if you're not doing it all the time.
That is what scares me a bit. Lots of effort, tweeking, padding, binding, covering etc. no GG ever would do ... what's the result ? ... we are read nevertheless (usually).
Not that this can't be fun on its own (the contrary), but isn't it a bit too forced nevertheless ?


I think that a lot of the pics that people post here aren't seriously meant to be "Do I Pass?" even when they ask that. It's more of do you like the way I look? If you do like it, you say nice things, maybe say nice things anyway knowing how much work and nerve it took for those pics to get there.
I know the ladies usually put a lot of effort into their style, none likes to look bad, and it makes a difference if you dress for or in the closet or for going out. But it makes me feel a bit sad to have the impression I would "insult" most by saying how nice their non-GG-look-alike-style is.
This reflection of themselves you spoke of seems not to be very appreciated.



I think it's natural for most of us to want to see how close we can come to looking like a real girl, after all that's what in a lot of our hearts. It's the same for the FTMs likely. You're trying to find an image of yourself that matches what you're feeling inside. There's a lot of frustration that comes from that quest - I've read it many times over on this forum, at least once today too.
Yes, this is the way it is and that's why I asked if this might be due to a lack of role models. Right now there seems only to be the GM or GG style. The first has to be avoided, the latter has to be achieved. Something inbetween ? How should it look like ?


Those that do have pics where you think holy # she's got to be a GG! are an inspiration and a curse to the rest of us, just like supermodels are to GGs. Exactly, and I wished we could get ride of the curse part, because I think it gives most of us a hard time.

So the next best thing - be yourself. Play with what you've got and let your own beauty come out.
What's so bad about it ?
I think that is the best thing at all. If you look like a GG then ... be it, if not ... so what.
I think it is the attitude that buggs me not the result. I (You) have to look like someone else vs. I (You) want to look like me (yourself).
Be proud of what you are and don't be ashamed of what you can't get.



I know that duality is what keeps my SO attracted to me when I am dressed. Yes and if this duality isn't interesting and attractive, what is interesting ?


I actually like seeing the way some of my masculine features stand out when I'm dressed. It just reminds me that I'm a complex interesting being. I see what is attractive about me, male or female, blended together, but what I like to see is what is attractive.
Same here, I had to get used to it a bit first (took a while), but once I've found it, I experienced it as another boost of self-esteem and a whole new level of dressing.


... I am a guy in a dress and make up, I'm in no way a GG so why should I completely hide the fact that I am a proud member of the male persuation.
Don't ask me. I don't know ;)


As a teenager I could pass. As a matter of fact I would go out on occasion with a boyfriend and no one could tell and believe me, back then' here in the southeast U.S.' if anyone could have told I would not be here now. But time and circumstances have taken of that and now I dont even try. I just dress for myself.
:thumbsup:

[Christina Nicole]

If, when I go out, I am not accepted as a woman, then there's no point in going out dressed as a woman. I can be a guy in guy's clothing. There's little point in spending time, effort, and yes money to dress as a woman only to be seen as a guy. Of course, I speak as a non-transitioning TS, so appearing as a woman is the entire point of the exercise for me.

Warm regards,
Christina Nicole

[Joy Carter]

absolutely agree with you.
Its perfectly possible to look appropriate to wear a dress without looking like a female. 1 in 100 truly pass, but the rest of us can be so much more than a bloke in a dress once we accept that

Ditto's with what Becky said. I asked the GG's when I came here and that is pretty much what they agreed on.

[Marla S]

If, when I go out, I am not accepted as a woman, then there's no point in going out dressed as a woman. I can be a guy in guy's clothing. There's little point in spending time, effort, and yes money to dress as a woman only to be seen as a guy. Of course, I speak as a non-transitioning TS, so appearing as a woman is the entire point of the exercise for me.
Ok, this is a very valid point to be accepted as a woman, and I admit if I could achieve that I certainly would give it at least a try.

I am a bit astonished by the total drop of the need if "passing" can't be achieved, interesting.
Those post/pre-ops I know of in real life are still readable (ok the others I wouldn't recognize anyway).

[Christina Nicole]

Ok, this is a very valid point to be accepted as a woman, and I admit if I could achieve that I certainly would give it at least a try.

I am a bit astonished by the total drop of the need if "passing" can't be achieved, interesting.
Those post/pre-ops I know of in real life are still readable (ok the others I wouldn't recognize anyway).

Well dear, I didn't say that I'm never read. I know that I am read sometimes. The important thing is, that no one makes a fuss and they respond to me and treat me as a lady. I cannot say with any degree of certainty that I pass 99.999% of the time or 0.001% of the time, or somewhere between that. But as long as I can be accepted as a woman, then the actuality of passing is somewhat less important.

Since I only dress up to go out, I never dress and stay home, if I could not go out, for whatever reason, it would be too disappointing, perhaps even depressing, for me to dress up. What woman wants to stay home and never go out on the town?

I know some of post-op TS women. I'd say about half pass not at all to seldomly, and the other half pass perfectly or nearly all the time. Not passing perfectly and having to live that way is probably a bit of why I am a non-transitioning TS.

Warm regards,
Christina Nicole

[Marla S]

Ok, got it. To be accepted as a women and to be treated as a woman is a valid argument and motivation, probably also for passing attempts by CDs, and might indeed require strong feminine signals to indicate this and to cover the masculine aspects.

[Kate Simmons]

Ok, got it. To be accepted as a women and to be treated as a woman is a valid argument and motivation, probably also for passing attempts by CDs, and might indeed require strong feminine signals to indicate this and to cover the masculine aspects.This happens more often than not Marla. It's hard to explain just how it happens though.I don't think it's any kind of "possession" as it were but more of a dominant mindset. I personally believe there are intertwined alternate brain "wirings" especially in our brains for whatever reason. This "covers" my masculine aspects when I am Ericka and allows me to proceed. I verified this last night at the club. There is a lot of energy there and I really do more than dance as it allows me to be in touch with my freedom. Call it what you will but the fact remains there are very powerful feelings in place at that time.I know who I am but there is a definate different level of awareness in place then. This was part of an experiment. I deliberately stayed away from the club for almost two months to see if the feelings were different. I'm not sure what this means but am just relating the experience. Definately a different outlook.:happy:

[Sally24]

I'm definitely of the strain that being treated as a woman is as acceptable as being seen as a female.

I still have trouble seeing past my male image when I'm looking at myself in the mirror. What I find in public is that your confidence and movements are as important as your overall appearance. After all, GG's come in all shapes and sizes too. I know GG's who are bigger and heavier than myself so unless you're really tall, it is possible to relearn your movements and signals so that you are "sending" as a female instead of a male.

I am afraid that even working on my acceptance of others in the TG spectrum, that if I couldn't at least pass much of the time, then I would have to stay at home. I also have a problem with the whole "man in a dress" look. They are my problems and I'm working on them.

Sally

[Marla S]

You are absolutely right Ericka/Rich, and slowly I am becoming happy to have started this thread (I don't get this feeling with all of my threads :heehee: ).
It certainly is a differnt energy (or vibs) if you are treated as a woman or as a man, which than retroacts on your mindset too.
I have asked that in an older thread "Want you to be treated as a man or as a woman ?" (there aren't more options), because I think that question has to be answered and will influence your dressing.
Either desicion has advantages and disadvantages.
I decided for the man side. This means to give up (for now) the ingoing energys that certainly come if you are treated like a woman by others. It doesn't hinder the outgoing energies to feel feminine. It lacks their team play of course.
In my situation I take benefit from my descision in that, that I am able to dress (be feminine) all the time, maybe even have some sort of a woman's day to day routine, don't have to switch (what I don't want to), go almost everywhere more or less dressed, but never pure drab, don't have to follow some standards to achieve a certain goal, except looking good somehow, don't feel the need to "I have to tell you something", no need to hide, etc. etc.
All this exceeds the drawback right now and I am quite happy with my situation in my situation (might change, to short to make a final statement, and my situation might change).


I'm definitely of the strain that being treated as a woman is as acceptable as being seen as a female.

I still have trouble seeing past my male image when I'm looking at myself in the mirror. What I find in public is that your confidence and movements are as important as your overall appearance. After all, GG's come in all shapes and sizes too. I know GG's who are bigger and heavier than myself so unless you're really tall, it is possible to relearn your movements and signals so that you are "sending" as a female instead of a male.

I am afraid that even working on my acceptance of others in the TG spectrum, that if I couldn't at least pass much of the time, then I would have to stay at home. I also have a problem with the whole "man in a dress" look. They are my problems and I'm working on them.
You are right GGs come in all shapes and sizes, but I have never seen a GG that combines all of my not so fem features in one person:straightface: (For a single feature ? Yes there are some GGs. For all together ? There is none !).
I don't pass, I wouldn't even be passable, but definitively never ever want to stay at home again.
So, whats a girl to do ?
I try develop a "man in dress look" which gives me a maximum of freedom and a minimum of drawbacks (I can't have it all).
One has to get used to it, no doubt about that (no models), but I am astonished that I sometimes even like my more masculine features, which I never experienced in drab and certainly wouldn't never experience trying to become passable (tried that .... just depressing).

We all have different approaches, which depend on a lot of circumstances.

[kerrianna]

I try develop a "man in dress look" which gives me a maximum of freedom and a minimum of drawbacks (I can't have it all).
One has to get used to it, no doubt about that (no models), but I am astonished that I sometimes even like my more masculine features, which I never experienced in drab and certainly wouldn't never experience trying to become passable (tried that .... just depressing).

We all have different approaches, which depend on a lot of circumstances.


I picked up a beautiful little dark blue dress today that is sleeveless. When I tired it on I was delighted. It's gorgeous and flirty, but what really surprised me was it made my arms seem more muscular because of the contrast I guess. I could wear a drab tank top and get that bare arm look, but because the dress transformed part of me the obviously male muscles stood out. My first reaction was CRAP! how can I pass with muscles like these (and I don't consider myself to be muscular in the first place). Then I remembered that passing is only a part of it, and I liked the way the dress changed my overall view of my body. I might try someday of going through all the work to see how femme I could look in that dress (it deserves me trying - sigh, can you tell I'm in love with it?), but when I do I won't expect to see a GG looking back in the mirror.

[marie354]

I no longer expect to look like a GG, but rather to try realistically improve my look with makeup and outfits. I'm still working on my looks so more pics to come soon.

[Angie G]

I'm far from looking like a GG never will be with out a mask as a cd'er my bodys ok but not the face so I don't go out dressed but dress alot at home and that makes me happy :hugs:
Angie

[ubokvt]

A very interesting thread and a very valid discussion, thank you. For me passing isn't the issue I want to be me. In me is this duality, mentioned earlier, and what I want is a look that expresseswho I am. The problem I tend to run into is the feeling if I dress I need to be part of the crowd and try to pass. In doing this I end up not looking like me but some half baked image of what I think a woman would look like. I want to be me at my appropriate age, dressed how I feel that day. My female models are those women who are just themselves and only dress to please how they feel. They are not sloppy but they are not to the nines either. you see them and their lives in the way they dress. Thats what i want for me. When I dress I want to be seen as me, and the way I've lived, and live. Its just hard to be that bold, couragous, (thank you erica for your example). Being with outher CD's makes it harder becuse most are trying for the look and my disaster I feel only holds them back so I cave and try and end up feeling ...well.. unsatisfied. I've been out several times compleatly dressed except for a wig and passed as me it felt great. I've worked with friends completly dressed except for a wig and been seen as just me, so freeing, so passing isn't the issue its being me and yes sometimes I want to be beautiful and the queen of the ball and I do do it all and then I do want to hear some one say you look good, because it was a lot of work and i want to know my work was succesful.

[Kate Simmons]

I agree that this thread is very interesting because we are getting "bare bones" here and right down to our feelings. Thinking about it, when I get complimented on my appearance as Ericka, I realize it's a compliment for me as Ericka the person, not Ericka the woman. That in itself gives me enormous satisfaction because I'm being accepted for being myself. My friends and others equate Ericka with my personality and not the fact so much that I'm trying to look like a woman,so I guess I'm being somewhat successful in what I'm trying to accomplish, which is being myself after all.:happy:

[Iniquity Blonde GG]

sorry, but i thought id chip in on this . i have NEVER worn make-up, or nail polish etc, i dont wear short skirts/dresses, i love my jeans/joggers, and when (if) i go out i can look good ...BUT i dont go ott.
someoen told me "beauty is within", its the "glow" you have about urself that people notice. going ott with make up etc draws more attention to yourself, even a shirt and trousers, you can still feel good in and attractive, just add heels !! and your there :D
sorry didnt mean to barge in on your thread :hugs:

[kerrianna]

sorry, but i thought id chip in on this . i have NEVER worn make-up, or nail polish etc, i dont wear short skirts/dresses, i love my jeans/joggers, and when (if) i go out i can look good ...BUT i dont go ott.
someoen told me "beauty is within", its the "glow" you have about urself that people notice. going ott with make up etc draws more attention to yourself, even a shirt and trousers, you can still feel good in and attractive, just add heels !! and your there :D
sorry didnt mean to barge in on your thread :hugs:

Well, you've definitely got that 'glow', wicked. :love:

[Michelle 51]

Marla i agree with you.Some of these girl's on here pass but i'll bet the majority can't Me included in the can't but that isn't why i dress I was going to say i dress because but realized i'm still not sure why i do but i know it is more than wanting to look like a women.It's more like feeling like a women for a littlt while .Passing would just be a bonus to that.I also realize that we vary on here on the why's and do's of CDing and i try to keep that in mind when i go through the post and am gratefull for all of you and your though's justabit

[Marla S]

sorry, but i thought id chip in on this . i have NEVER worn make-up, or nail polish etc, i dont wear short skirts/dresses, i love my jeans/joggers, and when (if) i go out i can look good ...BUT i dont go ott.
someoen told me "beauty is within", its the "glow" you have about urself that people notice. going ott with make up etc draws more attention to yourself, even a shirt and trousers, you can still feel good in and attractive, just add heels !! and your there :D
sorry didnt mean to barge in on your thread :hugs:
Yup.

Your input is very welcome, and what I can say from your avatar and your posts, you certainly have this glow.

I see this "glow" as the main aim too, regardless of which approach you try to reach it: passing, to be acceptd as woman, or man-in-dress.

A CD usually has to do a bit more to look feminine though, because it's not only the attention by others, it's also kind of a reassurment to be feminine (no makeup, pants, t-shirt and flats are hardly able to produce it).
Seeing my hands without nail polish, I see male hands. With nailpolish I see a feminine touch. Hence I most of the time wear nailpoish, knowing that most GGs don't (at least where I live). I stand out from GMs and GGs this way.
CDs kind of have to use stronger (stereotypical) feminine signals than a GG would need, which easily becomes a bit too much or too stereotyped though.

[Mica]

I actually enjoy seeing the more masculine of my facial features shining through my make-up when I am done up. It gives me a delicious feeling of not-quite-male, not-quite-female but still sexy as hell that I enjoy and that I think is necessary for those of us who don't have fine features and slight builds. I have a masculine nose (that I like to think of as aristocratic when I am made up), a cleft chin and a fairly prominent Adam's Apple but I have been called beautiful by more than one admirer and another cd and my wife. I don't necessarily want to pass although that would be nice (been told I could by one well-meaning sister but I doubt that). I want to feel and look sexy which I think is different than looking like a GG. I am also more attracted to a cd who has some of her masculinity on display, be it broad shoulders or a masculine face (provided she has done her make-up nice and femme). I think it is this blending of the two genders which makes us unique and sexy and beautiful. Just my :2c:
Love,
Mica