on passing

[slamddoger]

so what dose passing meine to you ?

[Amanda Jane]

less than nothing / i like to blend in / but i doubt that even blind people are fooled / but where i live and how i live it does not matter

[Michellebej]

I once had an Aunt that made fun of all those old ladies that joined the various lineage societies; such as the DAR. She was unmercifull in her contempt. She would go out of her way to say mean things to those poor women.

Then Grandma passed and someone found a three hundred year old Bible and some Revolutionary War Pension documents (originals). The Aunt promptly joined the DAR.

That was kinda like me and passing. I can't look in the mirror and see a passable woman. I just can't. It really held me up from going out and about. In the last couple or three months, I have really been going out. I have gone to lunch with a couple of friends; out to a local bar; to a Thanksgiving get togeather of another friend. And; finally to a Halloween party given by a friend of mine. At no time did anyone suspect I wasn't a women. ( lol, to my knowledge anyway!).

So; to answer your question. Was Passing important before I was shown I could pass? Heck NO! Is it now that i am more confident I can pass? Yep.

Love

Michelle

[Marla S]

An annoyance, but I rapidly evolve towards "means nothing".:happy:

[wannabie]

To walk down the street without someone saying thats a Man.

[TxKimberly]

so what dose passing meine to you ?
For me, passing is NOT about the ego, as in "gee, don't I look good". It's about not having to worry about negative results if I'm read. If I considered myself passable, this would be the freedom to go where I want to go, and do what I want to do without concern for being followed, harrassed, or embarassed by anyone that notices I am male. It's a nice dream . . .

Kim

[Butterfly Bill]

It can mean what you do in your car when the guy in front of you is going slower than you want, or it can mean what Congress does when it likes a bill, or it can mean what a quarterback does to gain some yards for his team faster than running, or it can mean a man trying to fool others into thinking he is a woman, which is something that I have found totally unnecessary for being able to wear what I want in front of other people. I can be honest about who I am, and I actually find people who like that.

[Amanda Jane]

me too bill / people don't like to think they are being played or fooled / if you are simple and upfront they most likely can deal with it from there

[Adrienne Heels]

Blending in with the GGs out there and interacting with them like I am one too.

[Jodi]

I have been told by many gg's that I look great when I am dressed. What they mean is stylish and presentable, not passable. None of us are passable. Passability is a combination of so many factors--makeup, mode of dress, hair, accessories, mannerisms, facial expression, correct posture, correct walk, correct voice, etc. Others could name many other items that have to be totally correct for passability. None of us have all that.

Therefore, the biggest thing for passability is self confidence. Walk, talk, stand, act, and sit like you belong there, and noone will bat an eye.

Jodi

[Amy Hepker]

Looking and acting as a female and getting away with it in front of others.

[Toyah]

Nothing at all, I am me I dont try to convince the world

[RobertaFermina]

Passing is exciting to me. I feel a sense of gratitude and power. Grateful that I have the resources and skill to project the illusion. Power, because I know a secret.

Since I almost NEVER pass, I make it a goal, but not a NEED.

What I want is to achieve acceptance as a woman or 'one of the girls.'

Last night, at a party of relatively openminded people, I was invited to help a GG fix her makeup. We went into the bathroom, and she and I exchanged tips, and compliments, and cooperated to fix her lips, and eyes. Another GG was already in the room when we arrived. We shared makeup with her too, while she adjusted, then removed her bra - couldn't bear to wear it more than 5 hours(?). Other girls, all GGs came in and went to use the 'facilities.'

Noone batted an eye, or showed the least discomfort. In fact, they probably did not look close enough to notice I was a CD.

That was Acceptance....PRICELESS!

[Joy Carter]

[QUOTE=Jodi;707076] What they mean is stylish and presentable, not passable. None of us are passable. Pass ability is a combination of so many factors--makeup, mode of dress, hair, accessories, mannerisms, facial expression, correct posture, correct walk, correct voice, etc. Others could name many other items that have to be totally correct for pass ability. None of us have all that.

Jodi I see a great many GGs who don't posses all those traits. Ever been to Wallmart ?

[lowlavalentine]

I'd have to equate it with freedom be out and about as a woman doing womanly things. It isn't necessary but it does make things easier.

[Lilith Moon]

My crossdressing need is to resemble a female version of myself. The more female I can look, the happier I am. It may be an unachievable fantasy but that is my goal. I have to be able to look in the mirror and, maybe with a bit of imagination, see a female looking back at me.

On the occasions that I have been perceived as female by others my inner glow of pleasure has come from the sense of affirmation of my female image and not from a sense of deceiving people. To put it another way...the deception is simply a means to an end, there is a sort of dishonesty involved but that is not the purpose of it.

Unfortunately, as others have pointed out, it is this dishonesty that can get us into trouble.

[tvdave]

Just a heads up for all. I was attending a city meeting last year, having a last smoke as I watched people streaming into city hall. One woman I immediately pointed to and said "that's a man."

Turned out it wasn't. She was a well-known POST-OP who apparently doesn't give a damn if she "passes" or not. She was there to oppose a city code of ethics she felt discriminated against tg/tv's.

I felt she was thumbing her nose at all of us who wished we could "pass" or even be rid of the "package."

Susan

[Angie G]

Something I cant do:hugs:
Angie

[StacyCD]

If I opened my mouth and spoke, it would be hard to believe that anyone would think that I am a GG. In the past I felt that at a distance I looked enough like a woman to be taken for a woman--my old definition of passing. However, the more I have studied body language, movement, clothing, etc, the more anyone who looked carefully at me would probably still have known I wasn't a GG. So now I no longer care that people know that I am not a GG. I dress and act appropriately for a woman and expect to be treated as such. I simply enjoy being dressed and acting as a woman--my new definition of passing.

[EricaCD]

One of the nice things about questions coming up repeatedly is that I get to cannibalize earlier posts :) So for those of you who were reading my posts back in November (or who read my blog), feel free to skip this...

What does it mean to "pass" and why do we care?

I suppose most CDs consider "passing" to mean generally being mistaken for a genetic female. If that's the case, then most of us - present company emphatically included - do not "pass". A very few CDs with small bodies, feminine shaping, androgynous features, slight voices and the good sense not to screw it all up with inappropriate makeup or attire just might "pass" in this sense. I don't find this an especially satisfying definition of passing, as it relies too much on a limited set of genetic flukes and little else. Moreover, as it represents a flatly unattainable condition for me, it would be useless as any sort of goal...

Many of us (present company included) are able to pass occasionally or in limited circumstances. Some of us seek out opportunities to improve the "batting average" - hence the popularity of evening activities! Nothing wrong with any of that - I have very much enjoyed the few instances where I appear not to have been clocked. Still and all, an occasional success probably does not constitute "passing": such a definition would be overinclusive and leave out only a few whose physique, facial features or other general characteristics utterly rule out the possibility of ever being mistaken as female.

With sincerest thanks for the insights of a number of people here, I have come to a different notion of passing. I view "passing" as meaning "communicating clearly to the world your presented (as opposed to genetic) gender, and enabling--not forcing--the world to willingly interact with you as such".

One can reasonably argue that I have just dumbed down the definition of passing; one with a sharper tongue could say I have done do specifically to allow myself to claim a measure of passability. Both are fair criticisms. At the same time, the definition I propose is reasonably limited: it excludes the "guy in a dress" as well as even an attractive CD who does not comport herself in an even slightly feminine manner. This definition also has the virtue of being aspirational: the better we are at presenting our chosen gender - whether by demeanor, dress, physique, voice, mannerisns, etc. - the more likely it is that people will receive us and willingly, even happily, interact with us as females.

Passing: using presentation, mannerism and character as a means to give the world around us the perceptional cues and tags so as to relate to us as females. With that as an opening volley, I open the floor to debate. Those of you who think that folly of this magnitude merits a private intellectual diatribe can feel free to pm me.

Best,
Erica

[Marla S]

Wise words EricaCD

I like to add that I sometimes get the impression that desperate attempts to pass are attempts to make the closet movable. This desperate part produces more problems than it solves IMO (that annoys me).

[Kenix]

To me passing means no one pays any attention to me.

[sammantha_flowers]

passing.. the ability to blend in and be treated as one of the girls without the caveat...
I would love to be able to have someone say you are a beutiful woman... instead of you would make a pretty woman.
If thats vain and shallow... so be it.

[Christina Nicole]

Over the weekend I was driving my wife's car and was stuck behind two doofus kids who were riding side-by-side and fooling around well below the speed limit. Eventually, we reached the part of the highway where it went from two lanes to three. I hit the new lane and pushed the Jag up to 120. That's passing. Gotta love a V8.

Oh, if you meant when dressed as a female... Passing is when people accept me as a woman, whether they know I'm male or not. It is not about "fooling" people. It's about having them accept me for what who I am. I'm a woman.

Oh, and if you think the first paragraph negates the second, I know a lot of GGs to whom you should speak. Starting with Shirley Muldowney.

Warm regards,
Christina Nicole

[Penny]

Well, passing means if you don't, you fail. I refuse to be a failure so I don't try to pass. I go out ferquently and am most often mistaken for a female but in reality, I'm just me.

:hugs:

Penny

[JennaKnots]

I know I'm not fooling anyone in the real world...so I've changed my definition of passing to looking fairly convincing in photos without using photoshop. In my last round and in my avitar, I've not used photoshop at all and I'm pretty happy with the results. That's probably as good as it's gonna get and I'm ok with that.

I wish the looks didn't matter as much to me, but I'm vain as a guy too, so it doesn't suprise me.

[Lanore]

Being me, no matter where I go or what I do and not having to change in to someone I'm not.

Lanore

[TxKimberly]

Erica,

If I were capable of expressing myself half as eloquently as you, I think I would have a career in speaking or writing. Well said!
Kim


One of the nice things about questions coming up repeatedly is that I get to cannibalize earlier posts :) So for those of you who were reading my posts back in November (or who read my blog), feel free to skip this...

What does it mean to "pass" and why do we care?

I suppose most CDs consider "passing" to mean generally being mistaken for a genetic female. If that's the case, then most of us - present company emphatically included - do not "pass". A very few CDs with small bodies, feminine shaping, androgynous features, slight voices and the good sense not to screw it all up with inappropriate makeup or attire just might "pass" in this sense. I don't find this an especially satisfying definition of passing, as it relies too much on a limited set of genetic flukes and little else. Moreover, as it represents a flatly unattainable condition for me, it would be useless as any sort of goal...

Many of us (present company included) are able to pass occasionally or in limited circumstances. Some of us seek out opportunities to improve the "batting average" - hence the popularity of evening activities! Nothing wrong with any of that - I have very much enjoyed the few instances where I appear not to have been clocked. Still and all, an occasional success probably does not constitute "passing": such a definition would be overinclusive and leave out only a few whose physique, facial features or other general characteristics utterly rule out the possibility of ever being mistaken as female.

With sincerest thanks for the insights of a number of people here, I have come to a different notion of passing. I view "passing" as meaning "communicating clearly to the world your presented (as opposed to genetic) gender, and enabling--not forcing--the world to willingly interact with you as such".

One can reasonably argue that I have just dumbed down the definition of passing; one with a sharper tongue could say I have done do specifically to allow myself to claim a measure of passability. Both are fair criticisms. At the same time, the definition I propose is reasonably limited: it excludes the "guy in a dress" as well as even an attractive CD who does not comport herself in an even slightly feminine manner. This definition also has the virtue of being aspirational: the better we are at presenting our chosen gender - whether by demeanor, dress, physique, voice, mannerisns, etc. - the more likely it is that people will receive us and willingly, even happily, interact with us as females.

Passing: using presentation, mannerism and character as a means to give the world around us the perceptional cues and tags so as to relate to us as females. With that as an opening volley, I open the floor to debate. Those of you who think that folly of this magnitude merits a private intellectual diatribe can feel free to pm me.

Best,
Erica

[Glenda58]

I don't try to pass instead I try to blend in. No short skirts no 5" heels. I try look and act like all the GGs out there so if you see me you look pass me because I don't stand out. If that's passing then I pass.

[MJ]

well passing to me being able to go any were and not be pointed out . and the freedom to be me. acceptance for who i am

[Amanda Jane]

Shirley did it on a drag strip, a raceway, under control, with safety

"I hit the new lane and pushed the Jag up to 120. That's passing. Gotta love a V8"

ignoring that a bunch of kids are dying halfway around the world for your oil so you can do some stupid macho posturing deal, i did a quick check on Lexus, and found that 120 mph in Jersey can be considered "reckless disregard for human life" and as such is a felony, but dear, i'm sure you will be the sweetheart of cell block C / meet bruno

for the rest of us, who have girlfriends, wives, ex-wives and ex-girlfriends, who have moms, dads and most of all kids on these roads, is this OK? (120 mph = 193 kph for our sisters in the rest of the world)

[Tracy_Victoria]

Yeah.. I agree.

To blend in.. in general;
and even though being read on a one on one... to be treated in the same manner that I look and feel.

Yep

I have to agree with that also, Ie blending in, going un-noticed, people just reacting to me, as they would do, if I really was a woman.

[kerrianna]

It means the running game isn't working. :heehee:

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Some people will get it.

I haven't really tried to pass yet, so I can't say. All I know is I would do it for myself first, not to present myself to the world. It's more to see a visual expression of my female inner self.

[Kate Simmons]

I always do it for myself Kerrianna, and don't worry much about anything else.;) :battingeyelashes:

[Angie G]

Nothing I don't :hugs:
Angie

[MsJanessa]

It means absolutly nothing to Me----if I blend in fine but I would much rather be the center of attention---nothing is more exciting then to strut,dressed head to toe in silk, satin leather, whatever with full face make up and teased big hair, and I do mean strut, into a TG friendly bar and have two dozen or more heads turn to look at you, usually with desire in their eyes(and other places) There is no more pleasurable feeling of Power than that.

[Bluebird GG]

from a gg's point of view its a statement a way of life embrace it gurls, u only live once:love: