should we ask if we pass

[julie w]

we keep talking about passing , but should we talk more about how we deal with getting read . from all the cd s I have meet at cd events the only ones in my I M H O that come close to passing are asian girls very few white males
pass close inspection , I have been told lots of times that I pass but in the real world I know I dont , in fact this false sense of security has damaged my confidence in the past . When I go out now the hardest thing for me to do is get my
head ready for the fact that I may be read , and thats ok , what I do is plan
where I will be going ,dress to blend in and expect that I may be spotted
and as long as they dont know me thats ok thats where the planning comes in
maybe you girls that go out can add to this post

[linnea]

though, of course, passing concerns me, I think less about it now than I used to. More than passing, I think more about getting along with the circumstances without being challenged about my femme appearance. For example, I check into a motel several months ago. I was dressed in a nice outfit, good wig, good make up. The check-in clerk was friendly and pleasant and the issue of my being a crossdresser was never explicitly a part of the transaction. Whether or not that person knew, I don't really care as long as I could get along in the situation while dressed en femme.

[Marla S]

Believe it or not I just had a similar thought about going out.
It's not my intention to pass, so I am read always in a way, but I certainly would dress sometimes more fem, if there wouldn't be this dull fear of negative reactions or disapproval.
Had no obvious negative ones so far, but it would definitively hurt (I am a bit sensitive there in drab too), and probably would influence my dressing for a while.
I think one has to become a bit thick-skinned, without becoming ignorant.

[Tracy_Victoria]

Passing is not the question, going out dressed as a female with confidence is. The majority of people will see what you want them to see, and therefore it is the total illusion you create that works over just one posed and choosen snap shot! (and they say the camera does not lie!)

The majority of People tend to only be interested in there own lifes, and therefore are not really interested in a guy in a frock, in,fact some would not notice if you walked round with a sandwich board stating you were a guy on your front and back!

There is no secret to passing, it's just good sence, if you stand out you will be read, so the trick to employ is to look more feminine than masculine and cast doubt in to peoples mind, so that if they do take a second look, there still unsure and pass you by.

Your friends would not say, "Hay I saw you out dressed as a woman today" they would more than likely say "I saw a woman that look a lot like you today?" if you can put that doubt in there mine, ie if you look female, act female, and don't recoil with shock and horror at someones second glance, there as likely to doubt your masculinity as they are your femininity

ie there as unlikly to doubt your actually not a woman, as to the fact that your a man stood in front of them fully made up and in a dress! it's the double bluff syndrome, ie you are so you can't be. or could you be?

[Sejd]

OK, so I'm a girl LOL, but I think you ask the wrong question! Ask yourself the question: Did I pass as a male?????? You are who you are. Maybe you'll never pass, but if you are OK with being a "she/male" that's who you are, and you only EVER have to pass for yourself, for who you are.
hugs
Sejd

[Sejd]

I'm posting twice here, sorry! but I just thought of one thing which has helped me a lot. Your posture! My wonderful GG always yells at me "shoulders back." if you practice female posture, you are much more likely to blend in. Too many CD's make the mistake to think that passing is in the clothing they wear when in fact, acting and carying yourself as a female is much more important.I would even go as far as to say, throw out your breastforms until you've mastered the walk. Learn how to walk (no not in stylettos) like a femme, hold your head like a woman does, and learn how to move with grace. That's the booring stuff right? but that is also the REAL stuff.
good luck
Sejd

[Amanda Jane]

if you don't care / it does not matter

[Kate Simmons]

I've decided I'm Ericka the person , not Ericka the woman Hon. As long as people accept me for being that, I'm okay with it and myself. So called "passing" is the least of my worries in any event.:happy:

[celeste26]

means that you really care about passing and that you're insecure about it.

If the issue never comes up why ask?

[JoAnnDallas]

I look at it this way. Most people don't pay much attention to others unless that person stands out. If you are dress all fem and you go out wearing a mustash, then your going to stand out and people will notice you. On the otherhand, if your dressed like most other GGs, your mannerisms, walk is GG like, and your makeup is done correctly, then chances are no one will pay much attention to you. They will see you and may even glance at you, but will see only the grosser details such as your hair, clothing, mannerisms and preceive you as just another female and quickly forget you. I noticed this at the hotel that HEF2006 was held in. I would pass a guest and that guest would look up and glance at me, then go back to what they were doing. even if someone did notice, most are not going to make a seince, besides most of us were raised better. LOL

It is kinda like the Duck thinge....Walk like a duck, quack like a duck, could be a duck.

[Jesse69]

Hey Julie W why don't you post a pic of yourself in the Picture Section asking if you pass with a vote poll?

Actually, there are a several of white crossdressers who look very passable in this forum. I rarely see many asians post besides myself.

[Sally24]

Too many CD's make the mistake to think that passing is in the clothing they wear when in fact, acting and carying yourself as a female is much more important.I would even go as far as to say, throw out your breastforms until you've mastered the walk. Learn how to walk like a femme.
Sejd

Quite right! The test I did when starting to learn the walk.....When you think you've nailed it, put on all male clothes, tilt the mirror so you only see from the waist down, and do your walk. If it looks like a man and walks like a man, it's a man. If you can wear male clothes and still move like a woman, your starting to get it right. It really works, give it a try!

Sally

[kathy gg]

Oh..I hate getting into the thick of these threads..but jesse I hae to wholeheartly disagree with you.

I see people posting and asking this question often...and often many on this forum are very kind and supportive and will be gentle....very rarely do I see cold hard truths laid out...of course let me take that back, you usually don't edit your feelings....but many do. Some, even when giving contructive criticism are very very rsetrained.

And sorry...posting a pic to a forum and asking this question to me means nothing...the only way to know if one is *passing* is real life test. And even then you need a friend to help walk behind you to see who indeed does do a second take. I have done this with many cd's friends adn my husband and I amsorry to say that even very passable cd's do get read.

My husband is often told how well he passes, and truthfully I feel about 40% of the time most people don't notice. But the rest of the time, I think most people are polite enough not to point out his real gender. Which really, to me is jsut as good as passing....but sorry a picture online does not tell the whole story. I mean a face is jsut that. There is walk/mannerisms/movement/talking/and just that general aura.....even the most beautiful and gorgeous crossdresser can blow it if he walks like a boxer and talks like a boy.

So...back to the original poster. Yes, coping mechinisms I feel too should be felt out prior to going out. I mean I think most people will either {a} give a person the benefit of the doubt {b} have enough common sense not to be rude. And to me that makes all the difference. it is almost like they are acknowleding what is happening, but are joining in to play along and agree to the image you are sending out.


Bottom line, my feelings are passing is over rated. Jus tmake sure that you are prepared mentally...and if that means cooming up with a mantra to say to yoruself in the mirror or to have a quick snide remark to shoot back then so be it.

Good luck and dont' let teh fear of *not passing* keep you from enjoying being out. Goodness knows we dont' let it stop us!






Hey Julie W why don't you post a pic of yourself in the Picture Section asking if you pass with a vote poll?

Actually, there are a several of white crossdressers who look very passable in this forum. I rarely see many asians post besides myself.

[Joy Carter]

Dress nicely, hold your head up, look like you belong and do carry a big stick.:eek:

[GACountrygal]

Hmm...

NOt totally off topic, but not totally on topic either...

We were out (Me, SO, kids and inlaws) at a truck stop restaurant having supper one night, and this person walks in as I am takin a bathroom break. Now it could have been a tall gg with a squarish body structure (I am one of those gg's) but the one thing that made me think it was a cd of some sort was the makeup and the nervousness. The person has that garish makeup you see in drag shows. That stood out pretty bad. It drew attention to thier face, which was pretty angular. NOw with more subtle/stylish makeup, I would have given them a pass...even with the nervousness. But the makeup gave them away.

-Nicole

[trannie T]

When I go out I know that I'm a man in a dress and I look like a fat man in a dress. Still, I enjoy going out and others seem to get some enjoyment seeing me.

[RobertaFermina]

I go out dressed and made up my best to project the illusion of womanhood.
I take on the the actor's method - I call up my most vivid memories of womanhood and fuse them into a persona that I draw inside me. I move along with that persona and seek to become her.

I let go my manly ways and let her guide my movements, breath, posture, face, and gestures. Yes, I practice in a mirror.

Out there I am Roberta, and if anyone talks to this body, they talk to Roberta, and Roberta is filled with excitement and curiousty for anyone who is willing to look her way and engage her.

What Roberta looks like sets the stage, and how she engages is the Play, and the Play is the thing !

:rose: Roberta :rose:

[Sandra]

If you enjoy going out in the real world why worry so long as YOU are enjoying yourself.

[Lisa Golightly]

I remember the Eddie Izzard routine...

'Hahahahaha... Bloke in a dress... Hahahaha...'

'Yeah, and?...'

'Errrrm... nothing... He's a bit confident for a bloke in a dress isn't he?'

[SherriePall]

I do my best when I go out dressed. My theory of passing is this: If you can keep them guessing as to what gender you are, you have done your job.

[Christine Kelly]

Lol. Very funny, Lisa.

That Eddie. . . . Ya gotta hand it to him, hes a breed unto his own!

[MsJanessa]

No don't ask if you pass---It's kind of like asking "Does this outfit make me look fat?" ---at worst you are airing your own insecurities and at best you are fishing for compliments. The truth of the matter is that very few of us pass all the time every time, particularly with close inspection and when we engage in conversation--and the easiest way to pass is to look like a plain, homely GG---for My money I would much rather be "read" as a stunning attractive T-Girl then be accepted as a ugly woman---wouldn't you??

[tommi]

Only ask if you can accept the answer. I know that iI don't pass but I dress for me.

[Karren H]

Yeah!!! It is a head game for sure!!! And I go out in public a lot and have never had a bad experience yet. But I keep waiting for one! Lol. They just neve come so confidence wise I'm on an all time high!! And no one pays me any undue attention!! So while I don't think I pass 100%.... I really don't know since I'm not getting any negative feedback! I even go out in public in conservative areas... Bible beltish.... Guns in all the pickups!! Still no problems! "Pass or die trying areas". Hehehe

Ok there was that one boy at the Wendys drive through.... Years ago, probably ruined him for life!! Lol

Love Karren

[FROCKYHORROR]

Sometimes i get dressed up and realise i need a bottle of milk or whatever from the shops,then theres this intense period of agonising.."do i go like this?, what if i'm read? do i realy have to take all this makeup off and nail varnish?..my hairs a mess under this wig probly have to wash it."..i wish i just didn't give a fig and just go out whatever the consequences...so what neighbours "get over it!" family "get over it" world "get over it" just let me be me...but i just can't do it..usually i end up just compromising,off with the make up,wig and nail varnish and just wear a big coat over the rest(girls jeans,trainers and whatever i'm wearing on top)...its hard being a woman,expecialy when you're a man..

[DarleneCD]

I tend to agree with most that have posted. Maybe it shouldn't be called passing but "disappearing", how to be out in public and not seen. There is a saying I think applies here. "find out what doesn't work and dont do it" Seems simple minded but true. I pay particular attention to women in public for things that draw attention to them and plan not to do them. It seems to be extremes in any area. A lot of skin showing or very little skin showing. Really short or really long hair etc...
Anyway look at the women you do notice and try and figure out why you were drawn to them.

This is just my opinion, I am certainly no expert and am still too nervous to go out enfemme to any place other than known TG friendly places. However, it is still a goal I am working toward.

Either way enjoy!

Darlene

[julie w]

I agree with kathy gg I could post pictures that you would think I was 100%
women and ones that look like a guy .which ones would I post ?
the real life test is the only way . in all the times I have been out I have not
had any real bad experience the odd look and sigh of disapproval , but
women do that to other women so should that bother us ?

[Melinda]

I'm posting twice here, sorry! but I just thought of one thing which has helped me a lot. Your posture! My wonderful GG always yells at me "shoulders back." if you practice female posture, you are much more likely to blend in. Too many CD's make the mistake to think that passing is in the clothing they wear when in fact, acting and carying yourself as a female is much more important.I would even go as far as to say, throw out your breastforms until you've mastered the walk. Learn how to walk (no not in stylettos) like a femme, hold your head like a woman does, and learn how to move with grace. That's the booring stuff right? but that is also the REAL stuff.
good luck
Sejd


This is so right! I watched a documentary last night that followed a man through SRS, complete with facial feminization surgery, breast implants, and professional makeup and hairstyling. Standing still she looked great, other than being like 6'2" but with nobody else in the frame you couldn't judge her height anyway. The moment she started walking or talking it became obvious that she had been born male.

This site, while wanting your money, does have some tips on how to walk/talk/stand, etc. http://www.femimage.com/beautyinsight_guyinadress.htm

[DarleneCD]

Belinda,

thanks for the link, that was a great site! right on topic.

Thanks a bunch

[Angie G]

Julie be what want to be as good as you want to be if no one knows you it don't matter :hugs:
Angie

[janedoe311]

It is best sometimes not to ask.

You already know I am sure.

[Marcie Sexton]

First of all...Shame on you Karren...that poor Boy...:heehee:

For years I dressed and scrunized myself in the mirrow...never good enough to pass I thought...and even today I have doubts aboutmyself, but after my wife became involved in my dressing, I refined Marcie...she compared me to a teenage girl who was beginning the makeup era...Now I take my time and apply my makeup and take pains with every detail, she has helped me with my walk and working on my voice...During the Christmas shopping season we ventured out together and done some reckless window shopping. Finally ended up in this little dress shop to get he a nice outfit...sure at 6'6", I am a rather tall gal, but other than some glances, no particular attention was paid to me. I paid attention to how I carried myself and how I put on my "face":rolleyes: ...Now with a little more practice which I get every day, dressed or other wise, I practice my walk and talk with my wife...We are planning a trip south for the southern comfort convention, perhaps a shopping trip to Lexington/Louisville...have also made plans to set up an appointment to a studio in Columbus for some make over ports.

In a nut shell....have the attitude< semi bitch >, perfect the looks, then practice, practice, practice...worked for me...:happy: