Dressing... identity vs gender identity

[ubokvt]

I am wrestling with an Idea and it always helps me to hear other points of view. So I would appreciate any thoughtful/insightful/considered comments on this subject.

I attended a meeting that made me think of my dressing in a different light. What is the relationship between dressing and my identity and something called gender identity. I dress, I have dressed most of my life to some degree or other. I will continue to dress. Dressing allows me to experience life differently, To explore life, new ideas and feeling and to express things I can’t as a male. It affects me and how I relate to all aspects of my life. Dressing is part of who I am. It is part of my identity as a person, but is it part of my gender identity.

I am a heto male. I have no intent or desire to transition, I have no desire to dress 24/7 or live as a female. I am “male “and I am comfortable with it. But at times I want to express my feminine aspects. I do admit and accept that at times I want to express myself as I sense a female in our society might, and have these behaviors seen and accepted as such, because, it is part of the person I am. Biologically my identity is male, I think of myself as male, so does that make my gender identity male, and if so, where does dressing and a desire to express as a female fit.

I do have to say on some level I am a complex and complete person and my identity is not defined by gender or biology and I resent being forced to meet a legal and societal definition of me. Please some comments.

[Debra Lynn]

Our society today demands that we fit into a nice, neat, niche. The problem is that black/white solutions ignore the gray reality. Every person is to some extent male/female with the percentages varying. Think of Yin/Yang and you would realize that the perfect balance incorporates both. What causes problems within society is the misperception that if you are biologically male, you must present at all times this way or be considered socially deviant. The corollary to that is if you don;t dress feminine 24/7 you cannot be a cross dresser. The truth, as much as we can acknowledge, is somewhere in the middle. A CD is someone who tends to dress in clothing acknowledged as belonging to the opposite sex as the mood and opportunity strikes them, but allows that acceptance by society is not forthcoming or expected. Otherwise they move through society in an acceptable way without regret or angst. To experience life in a different manner is about all a CD really hopes to achieve and is smart enough to understand how fleeting and enjoyable that is.

[Karren H]

Call me shallow....I just tlike to dress up!! :D

Karren

[emmicd]

I can't speak for most cd'ers but I know I am very happy with my born sex of male and I am also very happy being married and having a son. My life centers around my wife and son!

With that said I also know I am very happy wearing dresses when the opportunity arises which is not so crazy. Actually I think it's pretty cool!

emmi

[bgirl]

Gender? Thats the part that confuses me and I don't expect that I will ever understand. As it turns out, it doesn't matter if I do understand. There is no denying that I am a male,but there are times I feel like a woman, overlooking the obvious......at those times I am feminine on the inside and transgender would be correct for me. Like you I am not going to add or subtract body parts. Except in my fantasies, where I am all woman, I only know how to be a man, and the rest is my best quess. What I always find odd is that I relate to everyone here as women. You too sis Truly Beth

[Bethanygirl]

I am comfortable with my male gender, I just like to live and present myself as feminine/female. I prefer to live my life from the other side, but I have no desire to change my sex...

[Lovely Rita]

I can't figure it out but like the rolling stones would sing over and over again
"I like it"
I can relate to everything you wrote but I can not for the life of me understand it completely. I don't have the need to understand it all. I am what I am. I am just getting more comfortable with it all every passing second.

Proud to wear Nylons and guilt free.

[Satrana]

The gender identity you are referring to is a social construct which is continously changing. As our society is becoming ever increasingly liberal and free, gender identities will experience even greater flux than previously and so increasingly will become less important.

As a crossdresser I have decided to leave behind the social construct called gender identity and look at myself simply as an individual and others as individuals too. Yes, we are biologically male and female and must pair off to have children, but beyond that the rules of the game are falling apart.

If you feel a need to be in mainstream society and be considered normal then gender identity will be important to you. If you dont consider being in mainstream society important to your own happiness and self-worth then it all becomes irrelevant. Just be yourself.

Remember everyone has a male and female side. Those who follow gender identity rules are not being true to theirselves.:2c:

[CheriTV2006]

Glad to hear you're past probably the most important stage of what we do, which is self-acceptence. Like myself, it sounds like you are comfortable, know where you're at, and keep this aspect of your life in a healthy and positive light.
Take care, Cheri.

[Deanna]

All of our lives we thought that we were unusual or at least very different from the rest of the world. Then the internet came along and we became extremely comfortable with ourselves! Deanna didn't like to be all alone but we have become very best friends now that we realize there are so many other CDs out there. Don't think about it...JUST DO IT!

:hugs:
Dee

[Rica_6869]

Satrana's post is my thought exactly. And, I consider myself "Non-gendered". Biologically and physically ofcoarse, I am a male, but I think, act, and dress like a female at all times. I even get called ma'am constantly. People usually apologize when they hear me speak. I hate "mainstream" anything. I'm different in every way, and darn proud of it!! I am a 50/50 cross between male and female, I'm very comfortable with that, and that is "my" identity. Just be yourself, you only live once.

[Marla S]

Biologically my identity is male, I think of myself as male, so does that make my gender identity male, and if so, where does dressing and a desire to express as a female fit.

Yes, I think if you see yourself as male your gender identitiy is basically male.
Your dressing fits, because your male identitiy is lacking something to express, feminine aspects. Though having basically a male gender-identity it doesn't fit enitrely within the society's gender norms.
You can solve this basically in two ways.
Shutteling between the modes: One time within the male gender-norms, one time trying to fit the female gender-norms (blending in, passing attempts in order to pass; part time denial of the male identity).
Or one can try to express more or less continuously feminine aspects within the male gender-identity (feminized man, "bloke in dress"; partly dressing).
Both has advantages and disantvantages.

[Casey Morgan]

This probably isn't going to help any, but gender identity comes from within. It's something that you know you are, not something that you "must be" (not "have to be" but "I guess I am") because it seems to fit based on your understanding of it, or for any external reason. You know how you just sort of know you're a decent person? That it doesn't matter what anybody else says, or what anybody else's definition is?

It's the same way with gender identity. Shut out the rest of the world, ignore your sex, and look deep inside. What is your gender identity? Who are you? Male? Female? Something else? Maybe you aren't sure. That's OK too. You'll know it when you know it. But when you know it, that's what your gender is.

Forget the clothes you wear. It's not your clothes. Forget who you're attracted to. It's "I", not "we". Forget the specific things you do. It runs deeper than that. Your gender is who you are when the rest of the world doesn't exist, when you physically don't exist. It's not "I am because I...", it's simply "I am".

[Marcie Sexton]

I enjoy the relaxed feel I have dressed...Although happy with me as I am, married, with a son, I have often explored the realm of transition in my mind...Who knows, not me for sure...all I know is I am happy with who/what I am...

The make up and dresses are the window dressing that completes the picture...

[Kate Simmons]

It's a natural desire to "fit in" somewhere in society, hence labels and boxes. The problem is, when you become so self aware, sometimes who and what you are doesn't fit anyone else's definition. That doesn't mean you don't exist, it simply means you are who you are. It's nice to be accepted but not always necessary especially if you are confident in yourself and your own abilities. Some of us seem to fit into that category. We are nearly complete or are complete in ourselves and really don't need the world's approval to be who we are. That doesn't mean we don't need other people--far from it. I'm to the point where I appreciate others for who and what they are or who and what they want to be. Basically, I've learned it's not all about me and the interaction with others and interest in others is important to me. After all, who am I to judge anyone else? Rather, I prefer to celebrate along with them who we all are and appreciate that. It keeps me from being self centered anyway and gives me satisfaction. I just feel if we truely believe we are all in this together, I try to really express that.:happy:

[Sejd]

I have no clue anymore about my gender!!! I know I'm a man, I'm not thinking of changing my biology, but must of the time I just want to be Sejd. I think I'm just Sejd, not male or female, just the person I am.
I was recently invitted to go to a men's circle, you know where guys stand around holding a talking stick, bang on drums and cry about their fathers. Good, I have done that a lot and don't take me wrong, I don't look down on that kind of activities. I wanted to go, get hugged by bearded men who would accep me for what I am, but how do I do that in a skirt??????? Just doesn't jiwe. So there is a loss there, but also something gained. You all. Face it, we can't do it all, but we can be us. And we are a wonderful group.
hugs
Sejd:heehee:

[Deborah]

Gender identity although i'll never transition for personal reasons. I'll occasionally dress, but it's not necessary.

[suzy]

I don't think that Gender Identity has anything to do with the desire to behave feminine. My genger is male....and it will always be male...but I enjoy behaving as a female.

I love dressing, walking, eating, doing all of the things a female does in the way that a female does them....wearing the outer clothes and under clothing and make up and perfume...and so what has that to do with gender identity. My identity has not changed. :love:

[NatalieH]

Forget the clothes you wear. It's not your clothes. Forget who you're attracted to. It's "I", not "we". Forget the specific things you do. It runs deeper than that. Your gender is who you are when the rest of the world doesn't exist, when you physically don't exist. It's not "I am because I...", it's simply "I am".

Casey,

I really like your thoughts here. I wonder, though, when you get that deep, beyond the physical universe, if you haven't gone past even the concept of gender...when you get to "I am" I'd like to think you're either no gender, or, even better, all genders. (yes, "all", not "both")
...still trying to figure it out...

Natalie

[Marla]

For some reason I just love dressing up like a woman. As Ive said before its a really cool hobby but I feel better as a female! When all around me is falling apart I can cope better as as a woman.

[Kristen Kelly]

There was a time, just after I accepted myself, when I searched for the answers, and they are still forth coming. Do we need the labels that society puts upon us, I am a complex person, I identify myself as male with female tendencies, I do not have to be dressed as Kristen to be female that is a state of mind the clothes are just the brush strokes of the picture I portray.

[Raychel]

Call me shallow....I just tlike to dress up!! :D

Karren

:yt:

[trannie T]

There is a wide range of transgendered behavior. I'm in the shallow end of the pool, I like to dress up on occasion but have no real desire to be a full time girl.

[MarinaTwelve200]

I see it as "playing with my identity" And I am not just talking about male vs female.

It seems that we have at least 4 different different identity components or brain functions. In ascending levels they are--- Animate vs Inanamate, Human vs animal, male(human) vs Female (human) and Me(Joe Blow) vs someone else(Jhon Doe).

Many of us have a tendancy to deliberately 'play" with one of more of these "levels", crossing the "vs boundary" and experiencing a "rush" or thrill. --of course there may also be a congenital biological factor in some cases where the "toggles" (either or) may be set in an ATYPICAL position that may vex us in that particular identity level throuought our lives.

We all HERE are familiar with the male vs female component, but it is interesting to note that OTHER levels are also affected in some people. Actors are likely to mess with identity on its highest level---(ME vs Someone else) "Furry" or "Transformationist" folks may be involved in the human vs animal level. Those with fantasies of being turned to stone, or an article of clothing are involved with the Human vs Inanimate level.

WHen I discovered the HUGE underground of "Furies" and Transformationsts and noted the same sort of patterens we see in crossdressers and TS people how this identity thing worked became clear to me. without the male /female social/sexual aspects to "complicate" things (as in CD) it became clear what was up with the Frries---which , inturn can be applied to CDs and TS folks----it is an IDENTITY thing and not a SEXUAL one.

[marie354]

I try not to concern myself with gender issues. I know I'm a man, but I like to look like a woman. I'm happy with that.
My SO tells me that I seem to be more relaxed and at ease with myself now that she allows me to dress whenever I want.
:hugs:

[Casey Morgan]

I wonder, though, when you get that deep, beyond the physical universe, if you haven't gone past even the concept of gender...when you get to "I am" I'd like to think you're either no gender, or, even better, all genders. (yes, "all", not "both")

I guess that would depend on how you define gender. For me in this case it's more like a summation of my general tendencies. How I react to external (not necessarily physical) stimuli, the direction my thoughts lead me in, that sort of thing. I think that even at that level those tendencies can be broadly grouped. I know, that sounds like it contradicts the bit about "it's not 'I am because I...'" but it's more like "I am, and I tend to..."

[Lisa Maren]

Hi

For what it's worth, I do not think of myself as male and I also have many feminine feelings, tendencies, reactions, etc. This is why I'm confused about my gender.

Some CDers have a "female extension" or enrichment to their personalities and something like that can only be expressed in femme mode.

Here's an analogy:
Having a predominantly male gender identity with a "female extension" to it is like having a PC with iTunes installed on it. An iTunes song (or file) simply cannot be used with anything other than iTunes. Any other digital music player will reject the iTunes song (file). That doesn't make the computer a Macintosh, of course, but the iTunes songs (files) must still be played using iTunes. There is no other way.

Being transsexual is like spending your life believing that you're a PC only to find out one day that you're a Macintosh after all.

Feeling that there is a feminine part of you that can only be expressed in femme mode doesn't mean that you have a female gender identity; it only means that there is a part of you that can only be comfortably and healthily expressed in femme mode.

Hope this helps.

Hugs,
Lisa

[Kate Simmons]

What I've found out is that the perceived dichotomy no longer exists for me in relation to gender. By amalgamating my male and female feelings, I seem to have a differernt "take" on my own perception of things. Nothing is exclusively male or exclusively female for me any more. My feelings work together and are additive rather than working against each other as they used to. This is what I mean by taking ownership of yourself. I realize the external forces are there in an attempt to drive you to thinking in exclusively a male or female way, but I simply don't allow that to happen and either combine the presented aspects or make them neutral in my own mind which tends to make things more managable and easier to process. In essense, what I'm saying and I believe what Casey may be saying is that I don't define myself by my gender any longer, I define myself by me as a person regardless of how I decide to present myself.:happy:

[Satrana]

Feeling that there is a feminine part of you that can only be expressed in femme mode doesn't mean that you have a female gender identity; it only means that there is a part of you that can only be comfortably and healthily expressed in femme mode.


I agree. Boys are brought up to be strongly conditioned against displaying any feminine emotions or behavior even though we all have these. Crossdressers are dissatisfied with only expressing masculine feelings and behavior and so use crossdressing as a tool to break through this mental barrier.

We feel that we can only express feminine feelings and behavior if we transform ourselves into a woman. Our identity has not changed, rather we have simply found a method to express our whole personality and are no longer shackled to the socially constructed, lopsided, masculine identity.

Since we rarely get to explore the feminine side to our identity, everything is new and exciting, almost like getting reborn. We get to examine and reciprocate with the world through this unused side to our identity which can be very appealing and can make us better people overall.

[NatalieH]

Being transsexual is like spending your life believing that you're a PC only to find out one day that you're a Macintosh after all. Lisa

That's the scariest thing I've heard here!

Natalie
(firmly in the pc camp)