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pocoyo
01-25-2007, 07:21 AM
Even though I am longing to just declare to the world "I'm a boy gettit?" and transition. I feel I must check.
Yes I have been a boy/been a girl/been a boy/been a girl/been a secret hybrid etc. through my life but I never realised I was FtM before. I only realised there were others like me, and that people can transition, over the last few years.

I am pulled so strongly to just become a boy but... at the moment I am growing my hair so that I can "give it another go" (being a girl)... sort of like one last shot at being that young lady that my family & friends know and love. (Even though it will be frustrating when people are seeing me as a proper girl).

It's ok to have long hair because at least I can look piratey/rock dude etc but obviously with my quite girly/pretty features it's better for me to have emo/skatery/shorter floppy hair.

*sighs* so I am trying to become a cool looking/slightly androgynous girl for a while (albeit one that doesn't like having a girl shaped body).
It hurts but is probably necessary.

Yeah, I'm still confused.

And as a lot of you know I am probably havin' to meet my "perfect" (looking and talented) possible half-brother over the next couple of weeks. I recently declared to his dad that I am transgender. I do not want to feel all girly next to them but as usual I am confused as to how to present myself to the world..... they'd like me better if I was girly, but I'd feel really inferior. :(

So I'll probably go as some sort of androgynous person (which isn't me) as a sort of compromise.

I'm longing to just get my hair whopped off a bit shorter (like the hairstyle in my current avatar) though, and go all boyish and cheeky... I am so so SO tempted. Oh man. I want to get it cut like, today!

My mum would be so sad if I cut my hair off again after promising I'd grow it too.
Well.. it's nearly long now (I'm lucky that it grows fast).
Perhaps I should just grin and bear it... the sooner I get to looking all girly, the sooner I can tell if it feels right and whether I should just go with my boyishness.
Maybe I could just have it cut today then get hair extensions.. Heh.

Ooh, I need some guidance and a hug.

*sighs*

Marcie Sexton
01-25-2007, 07:38 AM
Sounds as though you need someone to talk( vent ) to...It is really sad when soem one is sad and has no one whom they can convey how they feel. Even when they do they hear but don't listen, sorta like not being able to see the forest for the trees.

I hope you can come to a resolution that makes you happy. You are the most important person. I would suggest you try to find some professional help. Perhaps then you can get a perspective on life that will make you happy...:love:

I'm sure that every one here will support you to the fullest. :hugs:

Good luck

Marcie

Adam
01-25-2007, 07:44 AM
right first off ((((hugs))))):hugs:

now i no where you are comeing from when i was 22 i tryed this be a girl for them kinda thing and it dident work out for me but i cant see the harm in trying at least then you can say you gave it a go.

and i no alot of guys with long hair its kinda a surf dude look so even with your hair long days you really feel like being totally dude you can still do it :D

maybe a sit down sometime with your family if you already told them and explain that there is information you can show them ect to help them understand.

but as like you said your not 100% sure how you feel yet why not just find whats right for you before make your mind up in telling everyone your young and got many years to make up your mind.

enjoy being you and finding yourself

Kieron Andrew
01-25-2007, 07:46 AM
question? are you doing this for yourself or others? if its to please others be very careful because you could end up making yourself miserable and becoming resentful of others for making you feel you needed to do this! if its for yourself best of luck on your quest

pocoyo
01-25-2007, 08:52 AM
Sounds as though you need someone to talk( vent ) to...It is really sad when soem one is sad and has no one whom they can convey how they feel. Even when they do they hear but don't listen, sorta like not being able to see the forest for the trees.

I hope you can come to a resolution that makes you happy. You are the most important person. I would suggest you try to find some professional help. Perhaps then you can get a perspective on life that will make you happy...:love:

I'm sure that every one here will support you to the fullest. :hugs:

Good luck

Marcie

Thank you very much Marcie :)
Yeah I really need to get a therapist about it. I did have a counsellor but was only allowed 8 sessions d'oh.
Btw that's so true about sometimes talking to people but they don't seem to listen or properly understand.
Aaw thank you :hugs:


right first off ((((hugs))))):hugs:

now i no where you are comeing from when i was 22 i tryed this be a girl for them kinda thing and it dident work out for me but i cant see the harm in trying at least then you can say you gave it a go.

and i no alot of guys with long hair its kinda a surf dude look so even with your hair long days you really feel like being totally dude you can still do it :D

maybe a sit down sometime with your family if you already told them and explain that there is information you can show them ect to help them understand.

but as like you said your not 100% sure how you feel yet why not just find whats right for you before make your mind up in telling everyone your young and got many years to make up your mind.

enjoy being you and finding yourself

Hi Adam awww thanks (((((hug))))):hugs:
Yeah at least I'm giving it a go hehe.
My family do sort of know now, my mum knows quite a bit... but she finds it a bit intense so sometimes I want to show her loads of stuff and it's too much for her to take in. I will try and get them to really understand though. I think. Thanks for being sweet about long hair too.
Thank you :)


question? are you doing this for yourself or others? if its to please others be very careful because you could end up making yourself miserable and becoming resentful of others for making you feel you needed to do this! if its for yourself best of luck on your quest

You make a very good point Kieron.
I know... a lot of it is for others actually. But I do also want to "find out" for myself if I can be a girl (even though I secretly already know the answer). But it's worth a go to see how it feels I suppose.
Thanks dude :)

Thank you for all your wise & kind words people.

I'm not having a good day and a minute ago a man's dog went for mine in the street and I went "oii" to tell it off.. and the man gave me a really horrible look and said "don't be silly love".
grrr. I had already been on the verge of a panic attack before I even met the vicious dog and that had just really p*ssed me off. As he walked off I yelled something like
"Sorry but my dog gets picked on a lot and I'm sick of it...... and I'm not a love... I'm a BOY!" in the middle of the street right near where I live... great lol. It made me want to run and get my hair cut even more.

bi_weird
01-25-2007, 09:04 AM
Oh Poc. *BIG HUG* (you're totally brining out the empathetic girl in me...and making me late to class, hehe)
I understand questioning. I think it's pretty common. My asexual friend and I have had many conversations where we talk about the fear of making it all up, that we went through so much emotional crap and took other people with us, and maybe we were just doing it for attention or something silly like that. Right now I'm also in another weird phase, where I don't want to be bi or trans, or geeky or tall or anything weird. I want to be very normal, because it's simpler.
So yes, while you may be doing this for other people, I can understand doing it. Just be honest with yourself (I know, you've heard that). After you've done the girl thing for awhile, make yourself think about how it's made you feel, with no thoughts for other people. Even if you have to slow things down for other people, the final form you chose has to be based on you.
Between now and then, just have fun. When it gets to you, view it as a dress up game. When it gets to you more, wear a tie. Or spit. I like to spit, and throw things off balconys. If you ever need someone to talk to, I'm always willing to play big sister/brother. All my little brother ever does is yell at me and steal the car, or mope around the house (he's 18 going on 15), so I'd be glad of a change.
Hope things get easier for you. I'll be thinking happy thoughts for ya.

Kate Simmons
01-25-2007, 09:10 AM
Doesn't matter to me Poc. I love Poc, the Purser and Poc the guy who is full of life. You do what you feel you have to Hon. You are always okay in my book because it is and always will be the inner you that I care about, regardless of appearance. The quality of a person is determined by their character and not what they look like. Your adventures and feelings always have a special meaning to me because I know what is in your heart. Take care my friend and don't worry because your friends are always here to support and love you no matter what.:hugs: :happy:

Sheila
01-25-2007, 10:05 AM
pocoyo,
:hugs: :hugs: :hugs:

Jess

Abraxas
01-25-2007, 12:44 PM
Ahh, pocs, wish I could give you advice, but really only you know how you feel. Experiment all you'd like-- it'll probably be good for you. But how you're seen on the outside doesn't change who you are on the inside. :hugs:

Kimberley
01-25-2007, 01:13 PM
Pocs, my thoughts are too long for the forum. I put it in an email but you can reply here if you want.:hugs:

Kimberley

pocoyo
01-25-2007, 06:49 PM
Oh Poc. *BIG HUG* (you're totally brining out the empathetic girl in me...and making me late to class, hehe)
I understand questioning. I think it's pretty common. My asexual friend and I have had many conversations where we talk about the fear of making it all up, that we went through so much emotional crap and took other people with us, and maybe we were just doing it for attention or something silly like that.
Hi Bi. Thanks so much for your lovely reply. It really helped cheer me up earlier :happy: *BIG HUG* back!
Yeah I have thought stuff like that too... like trying to think of ANY THING that it could be! There are so many different ideas and theories I come up with/wonder about. It's definitely not about attention in my case though because I kept it secret and hidden for so long...


Right now I'm also in another weird phase, where I don't want to be bi or trans, or geeky or tall or anything weird. I want to be very normal, because it's simpler.
Yeah I know what you mean lol! Sometimes it feels like it would be nice to just have a rest from thinking about all this stuff.
I hope the "being normal" is nice for you, but remember... "normal" is boring... you are special and fun and exciting :D


So yes, while you may be doing this for other people, I can understand doing it. Just be honest with yourself (I know, you've heard that). After you've done the girl thing for awhile, make yourself think about how it's made you feel, with no thoughts for other people.
Sounds like a really sensible plan.


Even if you have to slow things down for other people, the final form you chose has to be based on you.
gulp... I know you're right, but... I don't want to upset people... you know? (Of course you know.)


Between now and then, just have fun. Sounds good! I will try.

When it gets to you, view it as a dress up game. When it gets to you more, wear a tie. Or spit. I like to spit, and throw things off balconys. Hehehe! Also sounds good!


If you ever need someone to talk to, I'm always willing to play big sister/brother.
Aaww thank you so much. You definitely seem someone that gives great and caring advice. I'd love you to be my big... sibling :p But er... :o I think I'm older than you, although I know I don't look, act (or feel) it. *wild blushing*


All my little brother ever does is yell at me and steal the car, or mope around the house (he's 18 going on 15), so I'd be glad of a change. Hahaha! I shouldn't laugh but you made that sound so funny!!!
Thank you!!

Hope things get easier for you. I'll be thinking happy thoughts for ya. Thank you so much :D :D
***

pocoyo
01-25-2007, 06:50 PM
Doesn't matter to me Poc. I love Poc, the Purser and Poc the guy who is full of life. You do what you feel you have to Hon. You are always okay in my book because it is and always will be the inner you that I care about, regardless of appearance. The quality of a person is determined by their character and not what they look like. Your adventures and feelings always have a special meaning to me because I know what is in your heart. Take care my friend and don't worry because your friends are always here to support and love you no matter what.:hugs:
Thank you so much Salandra, that's really lovely.
Awwww! You're right of course. But it just feels sometimes like I could be a better person with a slightly different appearance (as silly as that sounds when you are saying such sensible and lovely things).
Thanks for being so lovely :hugs:
I'm really glad you're not leaving btw!!!

***


pocoyo,
:hugs: :hugs:

Jess

Aww thank you :hugs: :hugs:

****


Ahh, pocs, wish I could give you advice, but really only you know how you feel. Experiment all you'd like-- it'll probably be good for you. But how you're seen on the outside doesn't change who you are on the inside. :hugs:

Thanks Benny,
Yeah I suppose experimenting is good, healthy and like Bi said... can be fun!
That is such a reassuring sentence "how you are on the outside doesn't change who you are on the inside". People say it to me a lot, but the way you said it so simply made me realise that I am probably the same person whatever I look like! (But you know... it would be nice to have male features etc!)
Thank you :hugs:

*****


Pocs, my thoughts are too long for the forum. I put it in an email but you can reply here if you want. :hugs:

Kimberley

Thanks very much for your message Kimberley. It was very thought provoking and interesting and helpful (and caring!)

Thank you very much :hugs:

CaptLex
01-25-2007, 06:58 PM
question? are you doing this for yourself or others? if its to please others be very careful because you could end up making yourself miserable and becoming resentful of others for making you feel you needed to do this! if its for yourself best of luck on your quest
Kieron beat me to it. In your intro post you said you were growing your hair to give being a girl another go, but then you stated that your mum would be sad if you cut it. So that got me wondering the same as Kieron said . . . are you doing it for you (and your own experiment) or for someone else? I think experiments are great, and Lord knows I did a lot of that myself for a good long time (and learned a lot), but I was just wondering about your motivation. Would you be unhappy with any particular result of your experimentation, or would you be able to accept whatever you discover? Even if you think it might be unacceptable to others? Good luck to you, hun, you know we're here for you through all your ups and downs. :koc: <-- (that's a manly kiss, dude :tongueout)

pocoyo
01-25-2007, 07:30 PM
Kieron beat me to it. In your intro post you said you were growing your hair to give being a girl another go, but then you stated that your mum would be sad if you cut it. So that got me wondering the same as Kieron said . . . are you doing it for you (and your own experiment) or for someone else? I think experiments are great, and Lord knows I did a lot of that myself for a good long time (and learned a lot), but I was just wondering about your motivation. Would you be unhappy with any particular result of your experimentation, or would you be able to accept whatever you discover? Even if you think it might be unacceptable to others? Good luck to you, hun, you know we're here for you through all your ups and downs. :koc: <-- (that's a manly kiss, dude :tongueout)

Hey I don't care if it's a campy gay kiss! (You know ME!)
So c'mere and give us another... :koc:
Yeah your post makes loads of sense.
Ok so it is primarily for other people I think.. but like Bi says.. it IS for myself as well... just to see... you know..

Yeah actually.. I would be unhappy with one outcome.....I would be very unhappy if I discovered that I was a normal girl... how weird is that? But I think that is because I know I'm not, so....
Thanks so much my friend :hugs:

kerrianna
01-26-2007, 02:48 AM
I'm not having a good day and a minute ago a man's dog went for mine in the street and I went "oii" to tell it off.. and the man gave me a really horrible look and said "don't be silly love".
grrr. I had already been on the verge of a panic attack before I even met the vicious dog and that had just really p*ssed me off. As he walked off I yelled something like
"Sorry but my dog gets picked on a lot and I'm sick of it...... and I'm not a love... I'm a BOY!" in the middle of the street right near where I live... great lol. It made me want to run and get my hair cut even more.

Well fk, good for you Pocs! You acted like the alpha male -
I would have done the same thing - stuck up for my dog and stuck up for myself! :thumbsup: :hugs:

I'm sorry I missed this thread earlier - I was too busy tempting pirates. :D Jeez, no wonder you got into a scrap with that other cabin boy.

I'm going to PM you because I really don't know enough about you or your life other than what I've read, so I don't want to just give general advice. I like what everyone else has said here though.

You have something going for you: you're young and you have an active, questioning and creative mind.

You have something going against you: you're young and you have an active, questioning and creative mind.

I guess what I'm saying is it's your life to live and it will always be a roller coaster trying to find your path. It doesn't necessarily get easier with age...you just learn better what to let go of and what to keep.

Maybe my PM will be more useful. At any rate :hugs: , you do a mighty fine job being a great and classy human being Pocs, especially for a young 'un.

Not bad in the hot tub either. :blushing: :heehee:

Lex
01-26-2007, 05:15 AM
Sounds like you won't enjoy looking like a girl, but it might be a good idea to test it out. It'll help you figure out what you do and do not like about being a girl, and about being a guy and maybe help you decide which you'd rather be.

pocoyo
01-26-2007, 12:25 PM
Well fk, good for you Pocs! You acted like the alpha male -
I would have done the same thing - stuck up for my dog and stuck up for myself! :thumbsup: :hugs:

I'm sorry I missed this thread earlier - I was too busy tempting pirates. :D Jeez, no wonder you got into a scrap with that other cabin boy.

I'm going to PM you because I really don't know enough about you or your life other than what I've read, so I don't want to just give general advice. I like what everyone else has said here though.

You have something going for you: you're young and you have an active, questioning and creative mind.

You have something going against you: you're young and you have an active, questioning and creative mind.

I guess what I'm saying is it's your life to live and it will always be a roller coaster trying to find your path. It doesn't necessarily get easier with age...you just learn better what to let go of and what to keep.

Maybe my PM will be more useful. At any rate :hugs: , you do a mighty fine job being a great and classy human being Pocs, especially for a young 'un.

Not bad in the hot tub either. :blushing: :heehee:

Haha cool answers :p Thank you very much! :hugs:
Thanks for my PM too... I sent you one back....!



Sounds like you won't enjoy looking like a girl, but it might be a good idea to test it out. It'll help you figure out what you do and do not like about being a girl, and about being a guy and maybe help you decide which you'd rather be.

Thanks Lex!
Your answer is simple and to the point! :D
Sometimes that's such a cool style of answer to read.. it makes sense and is easy to understand.
Cheers dude, thanks! :hugs:

ubokvt
01-26-2007, 01:11 PM
Hugs, lots, positive waves, good thoughts, deep respect what ever it takes .

Who am I? Its "THE" question we all ask, always keep asking and exploring who you are. Anything you do to understand is great and it assures you won't have an unlived life. We trust you, what ever you think you need to do to understand who you are, do it.

But ... in an earlier thread you talked about a desire for a fathers attention...if your presenting to please or get a parents love think about it, there is a lot of pain down that path.

Still, we trust your wsdom to chose what is best for you at this time.:hugs:

Felix
01-26-2007, 01:35 PM
Wow Poc what a thought provoking thread!!!!
I think I've been fighting for one thing and another all my life I always seem to be fighting some battle or other. When I came out that was a huge battle it took about 26 years and then the battles just started. It calmed down somewhat but I think because of how I am and the things I believe in and the way I look at things I will always be battling. Does this make any sense? So no the first coming out has not meant things coming to an end its was just the start of a journey and now I'm kinda well not startin a new journey just in a new chapter cos I see my life like a book unfolding infront of me but one I can look back on and reflect xx Felix :hugs:

pocoyo
02-07-2007, 09:38 AM
Ub - awww thank you for your lovely & wise words :D

Felix - it does make sense! but I don't want you to be "battling" :( ... unless you want to... I think there are easier ways to do things...?
I like the image of your life being an open book and that you look back and reflect :D



Oooh Kiieerron... look what I've got!....


[Edit:Piccies gawn!]

pocoyo
02-07-2007, 09:39 AM
and a few more.

[Edit:These ones have gone too!]

Kieron Andrew
02-07-2007, 09:41 AM
Ub - awww thank you for your lovely & wise words :D

Felix - it does make sense! but I don't want you to be "battling" :( ... unless you want to... I think there are easier ways to do things...?
I like the image of your life being an open book and that you look back and reflect :D



Oooh Kiieerron... look what I've got!....
Cow! B*****d! ok which pronoun am i suppose to use right now!! :eek:

btw you look gorgeous im those pics!

*i didnt realise we could get oreo's over here!! where did you get em??

pocoyo
02-07-2007, 09:45 AM
teeheehee I think we know who stole the cookies now :angel:

I got them from a newsagents/off licence type shop weirdly enough!
Every time I see them I think of you so this time I bought some to tease you with :heehee:

Er I dunno what word to use... I uh... yeh!
Hehe thanks ;)

Kimberley
02-07-2007, 09:51 AM
Cookie!! Try a rum ball... or 2 or 3.

I buy them at a Polish Deli about a mile from home. Expensive but ohhhhh so worth it.

Lisa Golightly
02-07-2007, 10:15 AM
You have a very cheeky smile... Sometimes blind faith and true belief are not gifts with which we are endowed. I used to head down the route of denial, bounced around between extremes and finally ended up in a 30 something 'oh sod it!' kind of place. I know what I am, and I know what I've chosen... Some people who've headed blindly down a road of binary choices fail to understand that sometimes we have too many shades to be strict primary types.

The answers tend to always seem just out of reach in your peripheral thought, but they hit you at some odd moments. I was always a ditherer, but for me that in itself led to some wonderful life experiences I would otherwise not have had.

Oh, if you want to cut your hair short, do so. I have some old wigs you can always borrow...

CaptLex
02-07-2007, 10:31 AM
Wow, Lisa came to visit - if I had known, I would have put out the good china. :happy:

Poc, you're so bad teasing poor Kieron with the Oreos. I want to send you guys a boxful, so you don't fight over them. Great pics, dude . . . er, dudette! It's amazing how well you look both ways. :love:

Tree GG
02-07-2007, 10:33 AM
You know, some people spend their whole life trying to look good in one gender. Some TG's do look very attractive in the "other" gender.

How come you rate looking so good either way? Obviously born under that elusive "hot" star sign.

Wish I could make your choices easier, hun but no can do. I'm remembering my sister's sequence of events when coming out as a lesbian. After coming out, a few times she did date guys and although I don't know the whole details, it apparently didn't work. She is now in a committed lesbian relationship that seems to be working great. Self-doubt is common. Maybe if you start thinking of it as a choice, instead of a should or shouldn't decision you'd feel calmer.

Anyway, the people you love in your life may not jump on that bandwagon with you immediately, but after awhile of you talking the talk and walking the walk - either way you decide to go - they'll fall right in behind ya.

:hugs: :hugs:

PS Am I understanding that smuggling Oreos into Europe could be a lucrative business opportunity?

bi_weird
02-07-2007, 10:37 AM
Omw Poc...I can't believe that's you.
I'm in total shock right now.
First, because you're beautiful.
Second, 'cause it's like there's two Pocs - the boyish pictures and the girlish pictures. You pass so well in the other ones, I can't even connect that these ones are you.
Wow.

Lisa Golightly
02-07-2007, 10:41 AM
Wow, Lisa came to visit - if I had known, I would have put out the good china. :happy:

Oh, I drop by here and there... You boys are normally too busy to notice ;)

CaptLex
02-07-2007, 10:52 AM
Oh, I drop by here and there... You boys are normally too busy to notice ;)

Never too busy for you, hun, you know that.

I'm beginning to wonder if there are two Pocs out there, separated at birth . . . not just a boy and girl Poc, but even a British one and an American one (that explains the easy access to Oreos). Hmmmm . . . . :heehee:

Lisa Golightly
02-07-2007, 11:01 AM
I have to state Poc is amazing.... Be great to have him in the studio... Praise from me?... On a Wednesday?... Surely not. :)

GACountrygal
02-07-2007, 12:55 PM
WOW, Poc you look awesome both ways!!

About all I can say is you gotta be comfortable with yourself, either way, to be truely happy!! I do hope ya figure things out, its tough when tryin to choose the right path to take, especially when theres so many things pullin ya this way and that!

Hopefully this experiment helps ya figure some things out either way!!

Nic

Felix
02-07-2007, 02:50 PM
Hi Poc been readin ya thread again and was thinkin about all the times in my life when I've done things to keep other people happy. I have learned in part that thats not always a good idea. Although I know that when I visit my parents I always dress down and more feminine. Lol still wear trousers but more fem and tops that are more fem. It's only for like 24hrs so that's not so bad even though I will hate every minute it keeps the old dears happy a little and gives them less to moan about. I grew my hair not so long ago to keep them happy but I was incredibly unhappy. I tried to convince myself that I was happy and that I liked it but don't know who I was foolin. I got it cut and I felt liberated. The real me was back so that's one part of me no matter how much moaning they dole at me I won't change. I think I compromise at the clothes lol I can only just manage that at a push!! What I'm sayin Poc is ya young and like Kieron and the Captain said do things for you so it don't mess ya up but within that there is always some room for compromise. Take care sweetie and big hugs :hugs: :hugs:

Sierra Evon
02-07-2007, 03:12 PM
Sounds to me like alot of complexity's in your life , good luck to ya tho !!!!

MJ
02-07-2007, 03:51 PM
hey poc
omg you look drop dead gorgeous , " sorry if i offend " is that you ? , well i am in shock i sure wish i was younger you would look great right by my side :love: the perfect 10

anyway i felt just like you did at one time, but i lived my life for others and not for myself trust me the years of living a lie took it's toll on me, and one day i had enough , you have one life to live Hun/man and you alone must make the decision ,
just be yourself
hugs Marissa

kerrianna
02-07-2007, 04:21 PM
OMG!!!!:OMG: :eek: I can't believe it!

I can't believe you guys don't get Oreos in England!
I mean, I can walk down the street and come home with a huge BAG of them! It's like they grow in the trees here. There's Oreos everywhere!

How can you barbarians live like that? Oh, you poor poor people. We'll have to send some over on a big ship. Capt, next port we gotta stock up on Oreos for the poor blighters.
Just goes to show you, you can take things for granted not knowing how hard it is for some people. :sad:

Oh, yeah, nice pics Pocs. You could grow donkey ears and still look great. Your soul shines through and lights up the world. :hugs: :love:

Evert
02-07-2007, 04:44 PM
OMG!!!!:OMG: :eek: I can't believe it!

I can't believe you guys don't get Oreos in England!


Even we, the mad dutch, have oreos! :eek:

pocoyo
02-07-2007, 04:58 PM
Lol Kimberley, you're rum-ball obsessed.... .... ..... :D

Lisa, must be nice to know what you are! Oooh... that's intriguing..dithering leading to some good experiences... thanks for wise words. Haha I might take you up on that wig offer!

Capt - yaay Oreos... send send! Aaww thanks!

Tree - haha!!! "Hot sign" I think not! Teehee.
Thanks for your words they are very cool and make a lot of sense.
LOL yes Oreo smuggling could be the next big thing!

Bi - .... awwwwww, thank you.
But, um...you appear to have slipped those beer goggles on again! :heehee:
Oh dear... the "looking/seeming like 2 people" thing again... oh yes it's so confusing.... :worried:

Lisa again.... like Cap said... never too busy to notice you *winks*

Hehehe Cap again... don't make me spank you (you know you end up enjoying it waaay too much)!

Lisa again again... Thank you...:straightface: Yay... sounds fun :p Wooo praise from LG!

CountryGal...:o awh thank you very much! I hope I figure things out soon too!

Felix, that makes a LOT of sense actually. Thank you my friend :hugs: *hugg*
I'm really glad that you are happier with yourself now btw!

Sierra, yeah... nature of the TG beast for some people I guess :worried:
Thank you very much!

MJ - hehe no that doesn't offend me. I think it's nice, (confusing.. but nice lol). Ok.. yes I will remember your words... about it being important to think of yourself too and stuff.... I am glad you were strong and brave and started to look out for you!

Kerrikerriannaaaa - hahaha you are such a twonk :p
Oooh the great Oreo famine of '07 lol!!
Awww thank you, you're so lovely. I'm glad that you still sort of see it as "me" both ways.... (well I mean hello, I'm still totally goofy and silly both ways!) You're a babe, babe! :hugs:


P.S.... we DO get Oreos in England...hence the photos lol!
Pretty rare though I guess...

kerrianna
02-07-2007, 05:11 PM
Kerrikerriannaaaa - hahaha you are such a twonk :p


Okay, I had to go look that one up in the dictionary Kieron sent us once:

twonk n. Yet another of our friendly words meaning something like idiot. There seem to be more ways of politely describing your friends as mentally deficient in British English than anything else.

Gee, thanks. This coming from the self-described village idiot. Takes one to know one, eh, hun? :heehee:
:hugs:

MJ
02-07-2007, 06:05 PM
Lol Kimberley, you're rum-ball obsessed.... .... ..... :D

Lisa, must be nice to know what you are! Oooh... that's intriguing..dithering leading to some good experiences... thanks for wise words. Haha I might take you up on that wig offer!

Capt - yaay Oreos... send send! Aaww thanks!

Tree - haha!!! "Hot sign" I think not! Teehee.
Thanks for your words they are very cool and make a lot of sense.
LOL yes Oreo smuggling could be the next big thing!

Bi - .... awwwwww, thank you.
But, um...you appear to have slipped those beer goggles on again! :heehee:
Oh dear... the "looking/seeming like 2 people" thing again... oh yes it's so confusing.... :worried:

Lisa again.... like Cap said... never too busy to notice you *winks*

Hehehe Cap again... don't make me spank you (you know you end up enjoying it waaay too much)!

Lisa again again... Thank you...:straightface: Yay... sounds fun :p Wooo praise from LG!

CountryGal...:o awh thank you very much! I hope I figure things out soon too!

Felix, that makes a LOT of sense actually. Thank you my friend :hugs: *hugg*
I'm really glad that you are happier with yourself now btw!

Sierra, yeah... nature of the TG beast for some people I guess :worried:
Thank you very much!

MJ - hehe no that doesn't offend me. I think it's nice, (confusing.. but nice lol).
Ok.. yes I will remember your words... about it being important to think of yourself too and stuff.... I am glad you were strong and brave and started to look out for you!

Kerrikerriannaaaa - hahaha you are such a twonk :p
Oooh the great Oreo famine of '07 lol!!
Awww thank you, you're so lovely. I'm glad that you still sort of see it as "me" both ways.... (well I mean hello, I'm still totally goofy and silly both ways!) You're a babe, babe! :hugs:


P.S.... we DO get Oreos in England...hence the photos lol!
Pretty rare though I guess...

well as you are young and full of life, i don't want you to make the mistake of trying to live a lie ,
what if a good looking guy comes along ? you get married and then years later your "gid " issues come back and you want to transition
i just don't want you to go through the hurt and pain and the hell i did and many others here have done ,
i just wish i had the guts back when i was a young "teen age man " to tell my mun and dad i wanted to be a girl and went through with it..
but i do wish you well and hope you find your answers
love n hugs

pocoyo
02-07-2007, 07:03 PM
well as you are young and full of life, i don't want you to make the mistake of trying to live a lie ,
Yeah I'm scared of that too... I'm young but I am 25... is that still young enough to be biding my time?


what if a good looking guy comes along ? you get married and then years later your "gid " issues come back and you want to transition
Urg exactly.... and that would SO happen.
(Not that I'd get married but if I got in a relationship yes...)
But I have been in a sort of long term relationship before when I was like 17/18-21 and I was soo not myself with him, or with any of my boyfriends really. So I don't ever want to compromise who I am again... So darn good advice MJ!


i just don't want you to go through the hurt and pain and the hell i did and many others here have done ,
I'm so sorry that you went through that :( I am so glad you aren't now.
I don't want to go through that either.



i just wish i had the guts back when i was a young "teen age man " to tell my mun and dad i wanted to be a girl and went through with it..
but i do wish you well and hope you find your answers
love n hugs
Aww I wish you did too :( But at least you got a whole load of experience and knowledge that you might not otherwise have gained this way!

It's different a little bit... because you KNEW you wanted to be a girl?
Well you see I'm NOT sure... for lots and lots and lots of reasons... whether I truly want to be/am meant to be/should be a boy.

If I DID know.. I would so just go ahead and start doing it I think.

Oooh the confusion!

Marlena Dahlstrom
02-08-2007, 01:27 AM
Oooh Pocs, you tease... Getting Keiron (and the rest of us) all worked up.

We might have to force you to keep crossdressing. :D

Lisa Golightly
02-08-2007, 03:24 AM
I'm young but I am 25... is that still young enough to be biding my time?


I have been in a sort of long term relationship before when I was like 17/18-21 and I was soo not myself with him, or with any of my boyfriends really. So I don't ever want to compromise who I am again...

Well you see I'm NOT sure... for lots and lots and lots of reasons... whether I truly want to be/am meant to be/should be a boy.

If I DID know.. I would so just go ahead and start doing it I think.

Oooh the confusion!

Poc,

You kind of remind me of me... I don't know if it is for similar reasons, but your doubts sound like mine... In the past I always had issues with people viewing me as this person they knew when infact I knew they didn't know me at all. I was a maelstrom of doubt and anger...

But as I wandered through time and I saw friends enter life with their partners and settle down, and scene friends transform into the people they wanted to be I kind of always came back to my same doubts...

See, for me I never felt re-construction would change the foundations of who I essentially was. The people that would enter 'her' life would see the colour of 'her' and not really see me... I'm alloy... A blend of male and female. To choose one would be to halve myself. Probably doesn't make sense to most people, who see my feminine form as a something other than natural, especially a lot of the transsexuals who've always viewed me as a bit of a heretic (Truth is I still blush when someone stares at my breasts... I'm not good with things like that as I'm very shy). I always felt a bit pressurised as people I knew had grs around me... it nagged at me, but being a bit of a dreamy type the mechanics of the body don't interest me that much... I'm too much of a child... :)

My biggest doubt was always... 'Who could love this... mish-mash of genders?'

And I guess in the end that is what most of us really want... to understand ourselves and find someone who accepts us for whom we are... not just our insecurities, our self doubts, our shyness, our anger, our petulance, our thoughtfulness, our passion, but see beyond our biological form, and just know who we are...

Carry on biding your time for as long as you need. There is someone out there that will accept who you are and celebrate that uniqueness. They see beyond the things we hate about ourselves and when you've touched their life, and they've touched yours you'll smile to yourself and say... 'Yes, I bloody well knew I was right!' :)

Lisa x

Kieron Andrew
02-08-2007, 04:03 AM
Okay, I had to go look that one up in the dictionary Kieron sent us once:

twonk n. Yet another of our friendly words meaning something like idiot. There seem to be more ways of politely describing your friends as mentally deficient in British English than anything else.

Gee, thanks. This coming from the self-described village idiot. Takes one to know one, eh, hun? :heehee:
:hugs:
glad to see my dictionary is useful lol

Kieron Andrew
02-08-2007, 04:04 AM
We might have to force you to keep crossdressing. :D
Doh! like thats gonna worry him!

pocoyo
02-08-2007, 06:21 AM
Lol Kieron!!


issues with people viewing me as this person they knew when infact I knew they didn't know me at all.
That bit sounds really familiar.

I think it's cool that you know who you are.


My biggest doubt was always... 'Who could love this... mish-mash of genders?'
awwww :( Well some people would adore a "mish-mash of genders".
I would.

I do feel a little like a mish mash of genders, but inside.
I don't understand why I have these pinings and yearnings to have a male form.

Yes, I definitley want to undstand myself. Well.. a little more at least...

It would be nice to have someone see beyond the physical yeah. But in my case I don't think anyone is ever going to see my inner boy, unless I wear him as my outer-boy!
Plus the whole "I'd feel more comfortable with a male body" is an issue I have to consider...but it's the REASONS I'd feel more comfortable with a male body that confuse me. Like... is it because I just dislike myself so much that I want to become someone else? Or is it because that is my true form? Etc etc.

I think, without a doubt I would feel more comfortable and able to function within a relationship as a male. But it's why that makes me hesitate. And is it right...would I be making a huge mistake because of all these other factors.... etc etc

Thanks so much for your wise words Lisa...
They've made me consider something that was obvious all along but got lost in the whirl of confusion and so many other thoughts.

You're very cool ;)
Pocs XxX

Lisa Golightly
02-08-2007, 07:14 AM
It would be nice to have someone see beyond the physical yeah. But in my case I don't think anyone is ever going to see my inner boy, unless I wear him as my outer-boy!

Oh, I see him in your eyes in every photograph. The eyes give everyone away ;)


Plus the whole "I'd feel more comfortable with a male body" is an issue I have to consider...but it's the REASONS I'd feel more comfortable with a male body that confuse me. Like... is it because I just dislike myself so much that I want to become someone else? Or is it because that is my true form? Etc etc.


I can't say I was ever thrilled with what I got lumbered with myself :) It would have been so much simpler if I'd been a girl... Or would it? Would I just have a whole set of other issues? I admire your honesty... it's a commodity I prize above all.

Tina Dixon
02-08-2007, 07:23 AM
:eek: OMG, Poc we love you man we do, but when I seen your girlie pic's:eek: , all I seen was MtoF, I can see why the folks are having a hard time, I know you don't want to here it but your very pretty, so you just need to find that middle area to keep them and most importantly you happy, and I'm sorry I called you pretty, you can smack me any time:o

Kieron Andrew
02-08-2007, 07:33 AM
and I'm sorry I called you pretty, you can smack me any time:oyou wish!!!!:devil:

Tree GG
02-08-2007, 08:59 AM
...It's different a little bit... because you KNEW you wanted to be a girl?
Well you see I'm NOT sure... for lots and lots and lots of reasons... whether I truly want to be/am meant to be/should be a boy....



One last comment and I'll put my therapist suit away.

Maybe you're one of the lucky few who have really trans-ed the gender line. I keep asking, and haven't gotten a satsifactory answer IMO, what's it mean to be feminine? What's it mean to be masculine? Other than the stereotypical attributes (soft vs strong; small vs big; nurturing vs. sink or swim; etc etc) no one can say. And personally, I don't know anyone that fits those stereotypes even to a 50% level - I don't think that person exists... male or female.

The body/physical part is just biology - needed for propogation of the species. Other than that, how do you know a loving caress is delivered from a man or a woman if you have your eyes closed?

As Lisa said, you've got these eyes that just radiate a sparkling, fun and honest soul. Why worry about permanent changes? Feel like looking like a boy today - look like a boy. Feel like looking like a typical girl today? - look like a girl. Even if your presentation is based on what you believe someone you care about wants to see, so what? You're giving them a gift, not changing who you are. The women AND men in my life that I respect the most are strong, yet gentle and caring. The point is THE SAME HUMAN SOUL CHARACTERISTICS - doesn't matter which role in species propogation they play.

I completely understand this does not apply to those who really are TS and are 100% certain their birth gender is not how they would be happiest. But if you're not sure, how's about being Pocoyo gendered? Do, say, react, be as makes you feel good about yourself and just let the rest fall into place (because I'm 100% certain it will).

In my book, men can play with dolls (and pantyhose :devil: ) and be submissive and kiss boo boos and decorate homes; women can assert themselves and be boisterous and fix cars and not care that their bag doesn't match their shoes.

Be Pocoyo first, gender second. Cause from where I'm sitting, you are infectious and smiles bloom wherever you go.

pocoyo
02-08-2007, 09:49 AM
Lisa - that's very cool hehe.
Yeah I think that too... if I was BORN a boy I'd probably just have a load of other issues... or might not appreciate being a boy. If I transitioned at least I'd really appreciate being a boy. Thank u.

Tina - hehe! I'm glad you saw that. I often do too....
Ty.

Tree....


One last comment and I'll put my therapist suit away.

Maybe you're one of the lucky few who have really trans-ed the gender line. I keep asking, and haven't gotten a satsifactory answer IMO, what's it mean to be feminine? What's it mean to be masculine? Other than the stereotypical attributes (soft vs strong; small vs big; nurturing vs. sink or swim; etc etc) no one can say. And personally, I don't know anyone that fits those stereotypes even to a 50&#37; level - I don't think that person exists... male or female.
Absolutely. I totally agree. I feel lucky that I'm not so "binary" as Lisa put it.


The body/physical part is just biology - needed for propogation of the species. hehe yeah, cool!

Other than that, how do you know a loving caress is delivered from a man or a woman if you have your eyes closed? Very cool very true!... although some might say something about chemicals, chemistry, hormones "just knowing" whatever. I don't though, I totally know what you mean.


As Lisa said, you've got these eyes that just radiate a sparkling, fun and honest soul.
Awww, thank you so much :)

Why worry about permanent changes? Feel like looking like a boy today - look like a boy. Feel like looking like a typical girl today? - look like a girl. hehe... that's what my mum says.
It's just.... oddly, if I had a male body I would feel more comfortable doing that.


Even if your presentation is based on what you believe someone you care about wants to see, so what? You're giving them a gift, not changing who you are.
That's true...
And I was thinking earlier how sad and horrible it must be for my mum.
Annoyingly I am quite good at empathising, so I could feel how horrible it must be for her, even though she's being really brave and kind and sweet about it. The thought that I might break her heart was almost enough to make me just stop thinking about all this, and just try and be a normal girl. Well I actually am already doing that as you know from this thread, but somewhat half-heartedly. Perhaps I should just throw myself into it and try and love it.
Although from what I've read on these boards "purging" your gender problems rarely works.

But in a partner situtation it just feels so ... so... "icky" for want of a better word. I really really just don't want to "do things" with someone with a female body. And even if in the past or one day again I DID... I KNOW that I would way prefer it as a male, and I would be sooo more comfortable and happy as a male in that situation... but then that leads me back to "is it all playing pretend?" would I only feel more comfortable BECAUSE i wasn't being myself, as opposed to because I WAS being myself? Grrr. I'm such a f*ckwit.

It isn't just my appearance it affects either, because I don't just make myself look how other people would like to see me... I sort of get into this whole act thing and sometimes ACT sweet and girly too (albeit in a tomboy way). I suppose all females do that to some degree though. But it's also all very awkward and uncomfortable and embarrasing and, maybe, fake. Maybe.
I feel much more loose and chilled and comfy as a boy... but perhaps it's just because maybe I'm playing pretend or something.


The women AND men in my life that I respect the most are strong, yet gentle and caring. The point is THE SAME HUMAN SOUL CHARACTERISTICS - doesn't matter which role in species propogation they play. Very very cool. I agree!


I completely understand this does not apply to those who really are TS and are 100% certain their birth gender is not how they would be happiest.
Yeah. Lucky (?) them that they know...


But if you're not sure, how's about being Pocoyo gendered?
Hehe, my mum says that too.


Do, say, react, be as makes you feel good about yourself and just let the rest fall into place (because I'm 100% certain it will).
Bah. I expect I'll just be confused forever. (Sorry for sounding negative, I'm feeling a tiny bit low right now. I'm really tired for a few reasons, including this TG cr*p, and the dog has just been being really nasty to me.)
Thank you. I hope it does fall into place :happy:


In my book, men can play with dolls (and pantyhose :devil: ) and be submissive and kiss boo boos and decorate homes; women can assert themselves and be boisterous and fix cars and not care that their bag doesn't match their shoes.
Oh absolutely. That's very cool and something I say all the time.
I would never be a totally steroetypical man (or girl). I'd be really soft and loving. Very silly and fun, whatever.


Be Pocoyo first, gender second. Cause from where I'm sitting, you are infectious and smiles bloom wherever you go.

Awww thank you so much, that's really sweet.

It would help if I knew who/what "pocoyo" was to start with. lol.

And it would be sooo cool... to just "be pocoyo" and get on with it... but that also can't stop me having this confusion... the not quite feeling right about my body... the never actually being able to date anyone again (unless I transition).... the frequent yearnings for maleness.

Meh.

Thanks Tree :) xxxx *hugg*

Kieron Andrew
02-08-2007, 09:53 AM
Pocs? i was wondering as part of the whole experimentation/journey have you given yourself an actually male name that you may or may not take on if you were to transition?

pocoyo
02-08-2007, 09:59 AM
Pocs? i was wondering as part of the whole experimentation/journey have you given yourself an actually male name that you may or may not take on if you were to transition?

Yeah I've made people call me male names on & off through my whole life hehe.
I do have one which I think IS my definitive male name too... (strangely enough it's a nickname for the name mum and dad would have called me had I been born a boy).

But the reason I don't go by either my male or my female name on here is because I want to present myself as completely ME... myself, open and honest, so that people can give me real advice with no bias (which is also the reason I let you all see me girly).

I think if I went by either my male or my female name on here it would push me to act more one way or the other... wheras now as "poco yo" (little me) I am exactly in the middle. The complete true honest me. Not leaving any bits out.


******

P.S... to my previous post....
Also... sometimes I really feel like I'm a MtF (crossdresser..who likes being male) in a FtM's body... now that would confuse ANYONE wouldn't it?

Kieron Andrew
02-08-2007, 10:14 AM
Yeah I've made people call me male names on & off through my whole life hehe.
I do have one which I think IS my definitive male name too... (strangely enough it's a nickname for the name mum and dad would have called me had I been born a boy).

But the reason I don't go by either my male or my female name on here is because I want to present myself as completely ME... myself, open and honest, so that people can give me real advice with no bias (which is also the reason I let you all see me girly).

I think if I went by either my male or my female name on here it would push me to act more one way or the other... wheras now as "poco yo" (little me) I am exactly in the middle. The complete true honest me. Not leaving any bits out.
I totally understand where you are coming from, on all the forums ive signed up on that are CD based i initially signed up in my female name or nick name, then changed it slowly over time at a point when i was comfortable identifying with being totally male

******


P.S... to my previous post....
Also... sometimes I really feel like I'm a MtF (crossdresser..who likes being male) in a FtM's body... now that would confuse ANYONE wouldn't it?well you TOTALLY confused me lol:eek:

pocoyo
02-08-2007, 10:18 AM
Another thing I forgot to say in that other post... why does it feel so natural, normal and right to have a willy (my prosthetic) but not to have boobs....
Oooh bugger.
Anyway, I'm sure everyone's sick of my whining so I'm going to be quiet now lol

Kieron....

Oh that's cool, I'm glad I'm not the only one that does that sort of thing! :)

Hehe! So I'm not the only one who finds me confusing then lol.

pocoyo
02-08-2007, 10:32 AM
Oooh sorry I know I said I'd shut up but I have one more thing to add to my reply to Tree...

Thank you very much, your advice is really good and cool and perhaps I will give that "just being pocoyo, however you want" thing a go after I've done this girl experiment :)
I have sort of done that before but, this time at least my TGness wouldn't be a secret.

Thanks so much for kind words Tree :hugs: :love:

And thanks everyone for taking so much time and effort to respond to my whinging hehe!

Pocs xxxx

Kimberley
02-08-2007, 11:20 AM
Pocs, I have been mulling this over for a bit before putting it down. I really wanted to choose what to say very carefully.

Boi or boy. Gurl or girl. It is presentation that's all. What you feel is what counts and rationalizing things will make you crazy. I think we all tend to do that in the beginning. There is this big question mark then when we start to see things for what they are and who we are then there is this huge sense of denial. After that we begin to see some acceptance once we look at the child inside and give him or her a hug.

Yesterday, my pdoc said it perfectly. Being transgendered just is.

It is not a choice or rationalization. We can make choices about how we deal with it but not change the fact that we are trans. The problems really start to crop up when we try to rationalize our choices. When that stops we have self acceptance. Sounds simple but really isnt. I am a master at oversimplification sometimes.

Being trans does not mean one has to be binary. How we deal with it is what counts. Hon, you have a support system that is excellent. Use it. You made the first baby step with the referral. Please dont stop there.

:hugs:
Kimberley

RobertaFermina
02-08-2007, 11:53 AM
pocoyo is pocoyo.

deep within is the place with no words
no thoughts
no fears or cunning plans
rooted deep in the vital soil
in the soul
nourished by spirit and dreams,
blood of tragic youth
laughter of the ancestors
tears of the stars
wisdom of the earth
grows a garden of expressions
manifestations of pocoyo
behold and water the soil, your soul
trust what grows from within
and with its fibers, flowers and thorns
clothe yourself
and from its nectar, oils, and bitter essence,
draw strength, passion, and inner knowledge

pocoyo is pocoyo

bi_weird
02-08-2007, 12:19 PM
Hrm Poc and Lisa and Tree have got me thinking, and I think I shall ramble on a bit. I really would like to know what gender is. Sometimes I'm sure I get it, that I just know I'm boyish or girlish. Sometimes I can give a list of characteristics, and say "that, that's what makes a man, and those other things, that's a woman." Sometimes I throw the whole thing out the window and feel like there isn't really gender.
The person who got me started really honestly exploring my gender, Robbie, doesn't believe in gender. She (for want of a better pronoun) has come out as bi, pansexual, trans, and now just comes out as queer, without having a label, 'cause she doesn't believe in genders so she can't be attracted to a certain set of them. I don't know if that's right. I don't know if it's wrong.
Lets face it, we all know a guy friend who likes to shop, and a female friend who likes motercycles, or whatnot. No one fits the stereotype completely. How much of that stereotype is just social anyway? That I'm quiet because I've been told girls are quiet, and the reason I'm more confident in a tie is not because I showing my true self but because guys are allowed to be more confident. I think that's why I'm so loath to say I'm FtM, because some days I don't have a clue what F or M is. It took me 'til sixth grade to understand what people saw gender as, and I've spent the rest of my life wondering what the big deal is.
Does this make any sense? I don't know if I'm just gender-dysfunctional, or what. Some people honestly believe they're born in the wrong body, while many others obviously believe they're in the right body. Seems like there must be something there that's more than just social conditioning, but I have no idea what. It's like sometimes I feel like I've got color-blindness for gender. How do people just know that they're one or the other? Except, some days I think I know also. Just, some days I know I'm a girl and some days I know I'm a guy. And most days I have no clue. Am I just imagining these colors because I want to see them? Do they really exist at all? Or am I color blind and totally missing what it means to be male or female.
I think it'd be nice, someday, to grab a handful of TGs and TSs, as well as some people who don't have gender issues, and just sit and talk and try to define it all. Maybe then I'd get it.
I have no idea if any of this makes any sense. But I'm definitely relating to a lot of Pocs confusion. I'm also (as per usual) short on sleep and therefore possibly not making the most sense. Anyway that's my story; I'm going to go get lunch now.

CaptLex
02-08-2007, 12:32 PM
Poc,

I just want to be sure I get you (and your confusion). My own confusion was not about whether I'm a girl or a boy - I figured out that I'm mostly (but not 100%) boy. My confusion had to do with how I wanted to present to the world - not because people expect us to be one or the other (I don't care what they expect), but just to see what presentation I'm most comfortable with (male, female, in-between, or changing depending on my mood). I suppose I want to present as male because I got tired of people not being able to see the real me, but I don't have a problem presenting as a girly-boy, 'cause that's what I am. And that's why I'm transitioning, but rejecting suggestions to be more manly where I don't want to be. Does any of that sound familiar?

I think it's great that you're experimenting and questioning, and if you're half as impatient as I am, you may want all the answers now so the confusion will end, but you're taking the right approach and I'm sure the answers will come when you've looked at it from every angle. They may come slowly, or they may hit you like a bolt of lightning, but I'm sure you'll get there. I know I've told you all that before, but I wanted to restate it 'cause I know how hard it is to live with that confusion. :hugs:

Lots of great responses here, BTW . . . and poetry! Wow! :happy:

Robin Leigh
02-08-2007, 12:45 PM
As a little kid, it was obvious that some people were male & some were female, although most people also had a bit of the other gender, too. When I learned that gender was assigned on the basis of "toilet parts" I was amazed & a little embarrassed. Surely society wasn't that simplistic! :)

I was 4, maybe younger. Someone asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up, if I could be anything I wanted to be. I knew they expected me to respond with a typical stereotypical male occupation, like pilot or fireman, so I thought I'd give a left-field response. I said I wanted to be a woman. They laughed at me, and said little boys can't become women, but they wouldn't explain why not. A little while later, my mother had a little talk with me...

:hugs:

Robin

PS. Pocoyo, you're hot as a guy or a girl. Versatility is a virtue. :)

Kimberley
02-08-2007, 12:51 PM
Hi Bi.
I dont know if this is of any help. Hopefully it is.:hugs:


Hrm Poc and Lisa and Tree have got me thinking, and I think I shall ramble on a bit. I really would like to know what gender is. Sometimes I'm sure I get it, that I just know I'm boyish or girlish. Sometimes I can give a list of characteristics, and say "that, that's what makes a man, and those other things, that's a woman." Sometimes I throw the whole thing out the window and feel like there isn't really gender.

Someone once said to me; "There are as many genders as there are people."


The person who got me started really honestly exploring my gender, Robbie, doesn't believe in gender. She (for want of a better pronoun) has come out as bi, pansexual, trans, and now just comes out as queer, without having a label, 'cause she doesn't believe in genders so she can't be attracted to a certain set of them. I don't know if that's right. I don't know if it's wrong.
Lets face it, we all know a guy friend who likes to shop, and a female friend who likes motercycles, or whatnot. No one fits the stereotype completely.

Sounds like Robbie has got it.


How much of that stereotype is just social anyway? That I'm quiet because I've been told girls are quiet, and the reason I'm more confident in a tie is not because I showing my true self but because guys are allowed to be more confident. I think that's why I'm so loath to say I'm FtM, because some days I don't have a clue what F or M is. It took me 'til sixth grade to understand what people saw gender as, and I've spent the rest of my life wondering what the big deal is.

I believe the big deal is external. Societal. Most of us would be fine with our gender if those barriers were removed. We have to figure out how we are going to best fit into that world.


Does this make any sense? I don't know if I'm just gender-dysfunctional, or what. Some people honestly believe they're born in the wrong body, while many others obviously believe they're in the right body. Seems like there must be something there that's more than just social conditioning, but I have no idea what. It's like sometimes I feel like I've got color-blindness for gender. How do people just know that they're one or the other? Except, some days I think I know also. Just, some days I know I'm a girl and some days I know I'm a guy. And most days I have no clue. Am I just imagining these colors because I want to see them? Do they really exist at all? Or am I color blind and totally missing what it means to be male or female.

YES it makes sense. The fact that you are here is proof you are looking for answers, but you already have the answers inside. You just need to sort through the mud to get to the shore. None of us are ever one or the other and that includes the cisgendered community. With us, this difference is more pronounced so we question it. We question the gender, our place in society and how we define ourselves. Definition is the wrong path to take in my opinion.


I think it'd be nice, someday, to grab a handful of TGs and TSs, as well as some people who don't have gender issues, and just sit and talk and try to define it all. Maybe then I'd get it.

We are all here for that exact reason but you are always welcome to pm me and ask questions, just as you are most people here. You will get straight answers about our feelings and it is feelings that you are questioning is it not?


I have no idea if any of this makes any sense. But I'm definitely relating to a lot of Pocs confusion. I'm also (as per usual) short on sleep and therefore possibly not making the most sense. Anyway that's my story; I'm going to go get lunch now.

Lunch.... now there's a concept....:hugs:
Kimberley

pocoyo
02-08-2007, 01:28 PM
Kimbs... so I'm definitely tg? (Well I guess I knew that even though I doubt/question just about everything at the moment).
But you think I may be in some kind of denial?
Could well be... but, I think it's just because of a whole BUNCH of factors (e.g. the fact that I make a good girl AND boy, wanting to please others, peer pressure(?), body confusion, being so unsure of myself about a lot of things etc etc.
Or do you mean denial either way?
(Don't forget I'm the ship's idiot and need things spelled out lol).
If you mean denial that I'm actually just a normal cisgendered girl... then you could well be right. And that is what I'm afraid of :( I don't WANT to be a normal cisgendered girl.

I won't stop there (the referral) because it's something I need to investigate and sort out (or IS it? Should I just be getting on with being a girl, and I'm actually just fooling myself that I have gender problems? And my only real "problem" is that I want to be cool like I find boys?) ... see how uncertain I get about lots of things sometimes... grrr. Cos that wouldn't explain the "feeling right" about the willy. Although I could have just imagined that it felt right. I worry sometimes I could be so devious to myself subconsciously that I might trick myself into convincing myself of things that aren't true or something....
I am sorry that I am sounding like such a flipping nutcase lol! Constantly stating one thing then another... questioning, questioning. Some of it is because my mum has said to me before that I am the kind of person that picks up on an idea, then won't let go of it. It makes me so unsure of myself... like I can never trust myself to have a true opinion.
I have lately learned that I am right about a lot of things... and become strong in my thinking about certain things that Mum was wrong about (e.g. positive thinking IS the correct way to think, and I was right to be that positive person all along.) Don't forget that I have had a mum with depression on and off for the last 10 years or so ... and at a very impressionable/important time. So some of her thinking has rubbed off on me. (Not being depressed, but self-doubt/insecurities/self esteem issues etc) even though she has always tried her best to make me very confident.

Roberta - wow that's amazing. Very touching. Intense, yet hopeful. Thanks :)

bi - woaah I have thought a lot of those things too...
Especially some days knowing I'm meant to be a boy and some days knowing I'm meant to be a girl, but most of the time being confused lol. You make a good girl as well don't you? Perhaps if we only made a good girl or only made a good boy things would be clearer. Hmm. I'm waffling now. Glad to see I'm not the only one that's questioning and unsure, but still got some sort of gender issues.... My mum thinks I'm a perfectionist (I'm not actually.. just a tad SOMEtimes...) she thinks I feel a huge need to fit into one box or the other. But it's not that. I know I am an exciting blend of genders... it's just the packaging I want it to be in/how I want to bee seen/how I act that is causing me the confusion.

Capt - hmmm. Well do you know what. I think that IS my confusion actually... that I literally don't know whether I am a girl or a boy. If I DID know.... then that would be easier... I think.
Although if I was just a "normal girl" I wouldn't like that (I don't know why). It's like I WANT to be told I'm a boy. Why would anyone want that?! If they had the option of getting on with things as a normal cisgendered person?

Hmm. Maybe it's not even as confusing as I make it, perhaps it's just as simple as:
I don't want to be a girl, I want to be mixture but should I transition, because I would be possibly more comfortable with a male body.
Is THIS what Kimberley means about denial?
Am I OBVIOUSLY mainly a boy... but just don't have the guts to make my outsides match my insides?
Or perhaps I'm OBVIOUSLY just some sort of tomboy that is great at acting and "becoming characters"... perhaps I'm just a CDer.
Oh bloomin heck. (Hmm I don't think it IS denial Kimberley... I think it's out and out confusion._

Like Lisa and Kimb I don't believe that gender has to be binary... although actually it is to some degree at least.

Are there parts of being female that I enjoy?
Well what I like is the attention I get when I have my make up on and people find me attractive (shallow as that sounds) but I think that is the only thing I like about being a girl..

Ok I just thought about it for a moment and I would say that the bits I like about being a girl are as follows:
Because that is who I've been, as my main identity (for whatever reason) for the past {however many} years since puberty.
Female, is how people know me, like me and relate to me. And it's how I know how to be, how I am "trained" to be. (Even though I am a real tomboy as a girl and had a pretty unisex upbringing).
I am actually a bit ugly BUT... I CAN scrub up to make an attractive female and I enjoy the attention of people thinking I look nice.
I like that I can get on with people very well just by being charming and smiley... (but then it p*sses me off when I realise it's just because they find me attractive.)

Maybe my mum was subjected to chemicals or something when she was pregnant with me and it just messed up... so I have an intersexed, and thus, confused brain haha!
Also I seriously think that hormones can cloud your thinking. Perhaps without all this femaleness coursing around my body I would be like "well derr... I'm definitely a boy" instead of this conflict between certain thoughts and feelings I have and my female body.

Or.. maybe when I get slim enough I WILL just feel happy in my own skin as a girl. (No I don't mean that in a weird eating disorders way, I just would prefer to be a little bit slimmer, as a girl).


My confusion had to do with how I wanted to present to the world - not because people expect us to be one or the other (I don't care what they expect), but just to see what presentation I'm most comfortable with (male, female, in-between, or changing depending on my mood). I suppose I want to present as male because I got tired of people not being able to see the real me, but I don't have a problem presenting as a girly-boy, 'cause that's what I am. And that's why I'm transitioning, but rejecting suggestions to be more manly where I don't want to be. Does any of that sound familiar? Yes... that would be why I transitioned too. And also to feel happier and more relaxed in my own skin.

Oh yeah that's another thing too... I (think I) relate far more strongly to being a girly-boy, than to being a boyish-girl. And, as Kerrianna once said to me... there is a difference.
And it can be very frustrating being seen as a boyish girl when in fact you feel like a girly boy lol! But again, I'm not even sure about that.
There's not REALLY much difference in SOME androgynous people, aside from the packaging but then that can impact on how you act and feel.

Ok... I do not want to change who I am as a person. I still want to be "me".
That could well be what a lot of it boils down to.
I am scared that if I transition, I won't be "me" anymore.

Thanks for your help and support guys n gals.
poc oh-so-confused yo

Kimberley
02-08-2007, 02:01 PM
POCS!!! :spank: (Now dont tell me you like it or it is off to the Capn's hot tub with you.):D

The binary definition is what society places on gender. We know better.

Denial. This is part of the road to self acceptance. I did not say you are in denial only that it is part of the process. You are questioning. That is what you should be doing. Geesh!

Cisgendered? You? I dont think soooooo. Welcome to my unreality of being both genders, just like the Capn, Ms.Donna, Kerri and just about everyone else here and elsewhere. NO LABELS; NO BOXES!
Dress outside the box hon. :D

You have already stated what you dont want; to be a cisgendered girl. Big big clue there lil darlin.

Nutcase? I love nutcases... we can share Oreos in the rubber room then roll in the crumbs. Even let Kieron visit and shake his head. (Gotta have a bit of humour here.)

The cause for all of this. That is a huge debate but I lean toward the findings of genetic researchers at USC who found a big correlation between sexual orientation, gender and genetics. The evidence is pretty solid.

Your thoughts and feelings in our letters have always been very forthright and so I dont think your opinions are at all clouded. They are very valid. Please dont think they arent important or misguided. Opinions can change with information, feelings cant.

Presentation. It is what it is. We do the best with what we have got. Boyish girl, girlish boy or cisgendered girl? Doesnt matter. Like so many others here we would walk beside you any day of the week in any mode. It isnt looks that matter, it is what is between your ears and there is a lot there. A lot of friends here, a lot of friends.

:hugs:
Kimberley

pocoyo
02-08-2007, 02:08 PM
Hehehe *a little chuckle*
Your post just cheered me up a bit and somehow lifted the weight.
That all makes such sense.
Thank you
Sorry, I'm tired today!

You (and the others) rock....

Lovely Kimberley
:hugs: *hugs her but squeezes just a little too hard, making her wheeze* (I do that in real life hehe!...usually by accident...sometimes to be annoying hehe!)

pocoyo the smiling

bi_weird
02-08-2007, 05:24 PM
Hehe Poc we should have a confused party. I think we're both about as sure as each other was to what the heck is going on. So I have no advice, just commisuration. How do you spell that word? Anyway yes, confusion. *sigh*

Abraxas
02-08-2007, 05:41 PM
Hey Pocs,
In a bit of a hurry so can't respond to everything right now, but... I think I've gone through (and continue to, and will continue to) every thought you've expressed here. You've just been able to actually put the thoughts into words, which is something Iv'e never been able to do (with ANY thoughts, not just TG ones).
I've wondered if this is denial, both ways, wondered if maybe I just want to be a boy just because I DON'T want to be a girl, because it's so 'normal.'
Like with all my medical problems and such-- Sure, I hate being in pain all the time, but I'm afraid of not being in pain. If I get all this medical stuff taken care of, then I'll be losing a big part of what makes me, me. And that scares the hell out of me. It's the same with being TG, I think. If I ever did realise that I wasn't TG, for some reason, that it was something to do with hormones, or a weird place psychologically, I wouldn't know what to do with myself.

kerrianna
02-08-2007, 10:46 PM
Wow, what an interesting discussion - I can't think of anything to add right now Pocs except my mantra since I was young which came from King Crimson's first album and really has never changed:

"Confusion will be my Epitaph"

carry on......:hugs:

MJ
02-08-2007, 11:59 PM
hi poc
i was thinking of you all day today "good thoughts" and i want to clear something up it may help you, i said i knew from age 5 or 6 that i should have been born a girl, thats true however there were lots of times i was in denial. the first time i was 13 then 17 , 21,25 ,33 ,38, and at 40 i give up, no more denial no more purging , damm it i am a woman .. no more confusion. i can't take it this anymore in the end i just wanted someone to kill me and get it over , well my wife yes wife found out about my cding after 21 years and game over for me, in a way she set me free to become the other woman, and even now there are time i doubt myself `i think`. " you are not the only one " and i go for my letter for srs march 17 :eek: , so don't think this is easy. hey i know you don't, i get my moments too , and did the capt say something about doubt too?. before his surgery ?
in the end i think you should go with your gut instincts how you feel be who you are pocoyo the guy who makes our day and brightens up the day

so poc you see you are not alone my good man

and even when i get my letter and go for my surgery i doubt i would be 100&#37; sure i don't think anyone of us are..

hey is there anyone here 100% sure ?? who they are?normal !! whats normal ?

pocoyo
02-15-2007, 06:37 PM
Hi, sorry I haven't replied to a few of the answers here. I needed a rest from thinking about it all so much. But I did read all of them and it's good to hear your lovely helpful views and opinions and also to know that I'm not alone with the confusion and that lots of people have felt some degree of confusion over all this gender stuff.

****

Thought I would update this thread with something that happened today...because I was making a video for you guys, with me as "boy poc" (well... more like "androgynous poc" actually) and "girl poc" ... I still had my proper make up on and so I wore it to work and my hair tied back in a ponytail. I got flirted at by so many horrible straight men (haha I'm not saying straight men are horrible in general, but these were), and a bunch of stupid STUPID boys who hung around just to play jokes on me and annoy me, thinking they were hilarious. None of the being-flirted-with/fancied felt nice... NONE of it.
It really p*ssed me off. I'm sure I didn't used to hate being fancied/flirted at by straight men QUITE so much... hmm.
The other day I had my hair in bunches at work and just mascara, this cute canadian guy was talking to me. That's the only person I have enjoyed being flirty with me for ages (he wasn't even that flirty, just sweet).

I just felt like saying "Oh f*ck off and leave me alone you idiots" today.

kerrianna
02-16-2007, 02:56 AM
The other day I had my hair in bunches at work and just mascara, this cute canadian guy was talking to me. That's the only person I have enjoyed being flirty with me for ages (he wasn't even that flirty, just sweet).


We're all cute and sweet over here Pocs. :battingeyelashes:

You should come visit. I was thinking you've got so many fans in North America you could do the
Pocoyo North American Tour! You could start out here on the West Coast and work your way back or start back East and work your way out here. Maybe I'll be your tour tech (you must need a tech if you go on tour) and get to see everyone else at the same time too. That would be a blast! :thumbup:

sorry if I missed or misplaced anyone's city on the map - it was done quickly. :p

pocoyo
02-16-2007, 04:50 AM
Hahaha! I have popped on quickly while waiting for taxi to go to work... now that's funny! :D

Btw.. cute Canadians... :D

:hugs:

Abraxas
02-16-2007, 04:50 AM
He needs to swing round to Salt Lake, too...

kerrianna
02-16-2007, 04:54 AM
He needs to swing round to Salt Lake, too...

ahhhh....I'll have to amend the tour map. I think the original line I had went through Utah, but I thought Nawww, nobody lives there! :heehee:

Sorry Abraxas, we'll get that added to the tour for sure. I know Pocs would want to see you. :hugs:

CaptLex
02-16-2007, 06:31 AM
Wouldn't it be funny if we all ended up on Poc's doorstep instead? :eek: I think he should start the tour on the west coast and bring people along as he makes his way to the east coast. Once he gets here, we can have one hell of a party! :D

Kate Simmons
02-16-2007, 08:15 AM
Hi Poc, Been reading this and have some ideas. It's seems you are comfortable with being yourself and the only problem is you can't decide how to present. You enjoy being a tomboy for sure. So, my question is what is wrong with that? You know most of your friends accept you for who you are. As far as dressing and presentation, just do what you want, when you want. No one here is going to fault you for that. If you want to wear a dress, wear a dress, if you want to wear boy stuff, wear boy stuff. If you want a willy, have one. Take it from someone who was in the same boat for years, always worried about other people. It gave me no small amount of frustration until I said the hell with it and I'm gonna be who I wanna be when I wanna be. You and I may be more alike than you may think from opposite sides of the same coin. Right now, I'm having fun being in guy mode and don't care what others think (especially folks here) as I'm enjoying myself thoroughly. This may last for a week or two, maybe more. I can always return to being Sal whenever I'm ready. The point is I'm doing it and am enjoying it and it is totally my choice. Being yourself and enjoying it is the key. As long as you don't compromise yourself and your identity as a person, you will always be happy. I've just realized I wasted too much energy worrying about it and just went ahead and did what I felt like. I'm much happier for that.:happy:

bi_weird
02-16-2007, 09:21 AM
DUUDE I like this plan! Party at the Caps!
Wait a minute. I may be doing a North American road trip in a few months. If I go to grad school at Irvine (currently the front runner) I have a grand plan for getting there. I can't fly 'cause I have to take my guinea pigs, so I'm renting a UHaul and driving cross country over the course of a week, a few hours each day, and stopping in a few state every night. May have to try to track some of you down if I do that...

Kimberley
02-16-2007, 03:04 PM
....Thought I would update this thread with something that happened today...because I was making a video for you guys, with me as "boy poc" (well... more like "androgynous poc" actually) and "girl poc" ... I still had my proper make up on and so I wore it to work and my hair tied back in a ponytail. I got flirted at by so many horrible straight men (haha I'm not saying straight men are horrible in general, but these were), and a bunch of stupid STUPID boys who hung around just to play jokes on me and annoy me, thinking they were hilarious. None of the being-flirted-with/fancied felt nice... NONE of it.
It really p*ssed me off. I'm sure I didn't used to hate being fancied/flirted at by straight men QUITE so much... hmm.... I just felt like saying "Oh f*ck off and leave me alone you idiots" today.
*************
I can totally relate to this one. Fridays are breakfast with my father. Anyway, as everyone knows I generally present DRAB (to keep the peace). Anyway, the waitress started flirting. My father thought it was funny. I felt like you did POCS, then thought 'Gee I wonder how fast she could run if she knew I was TG?' That brought a REAL smile to my face.
*************
Dealing with a Canuck huh? One of my bro's in law is over there right now on a contract. I wonder......
Nahhhhhhh

:hugs:
Kimberley

pocoyo
02-16-2007, 05:51 PM
:Awww Salandra, I like your post. It makes a lot of sense, and inspires me with a sort of sense of freedom... (if that makes sense!).
Thank you. Also, I'm glad you're enjoying your male side :D

***

PARTY AT CAPS OR MINE? WOOO!!! :cheers: :jumping:
Looking forward to that one... hmm now what to wear? ;)
Aweeeesommme!

****

Oh Kimberley!! Poor thing. I'm glad someone knows what I mean/how it feels!!!
Hehe yeah I should have dropped my voice and said "Er... my name's [insert boy name here], would you like me to prove it? No? Then bog off!" that would have shut them up *chuckles*

Hehe what does your BIL look like?! Rather handsome? :heehee:

Kate Simmons
02-17-2007, 04:16 AM
Yeah, when I go to the club as Sal, I sometimes talk like a longshoreman and their mouths just hang open. Sometimes when I go as Rich, I talk really fruity and they are equally confused. Throw in Eric and they don't know what to think. I just sit there LMAO. It keeps them guessing anyway and they never know what I'm going to do next.;) :alien: :battingeyelashes:

Jestina
02-18-2007, 10:30 PM
Hi Poc:

I have read thru this thread with empathy and interest.
Honestly my heart goes out to you.

In case you have not picked it up on any of my previous posts,
I have a strong background in psychology.
My natural tendancy is to care and nurture.
Which ironicaly is a female tendancy.

So in a very non professional gesture but a sincere friendly one,
I wish I could give you a hug right now and just tell you that everything is going to be alright.
Because eventually it will be.

Til then, please hang in and be yourself.
Even if "yourself" changes from day to day.
Whattheheckever is wrong with that anyway?

I am not going to play "shrink" here, and analyze anything.
Just as a concerned friend, brother/sister-human being,
be well and live well.

BTW, you can keep my skirt. If you don't wear it let it be a souvenir.
LOL...OK? Hugs. Big ones.

Jestina

pocoyo
02-19-2007, 07:48 AM
Awww Jest thank you thats so sweet! ((hug))
Today I am like 98% sure I am a boy (or 98% boy!).

I actually found myself yelling out loud in bed last night in disgust/fear (like I do sometimes from a nightmare) as I was falling asleep, because I hate having boobs so much!

I just want to be relating to people as a boy and for my body to be properly male and and and.... I still want your skirt ;) :heehee:

kerrianna
02-19-2007, 08:01 AM
I just want to be relating to people as a boy and for my body to be properly male and and and.... I still want your skirt ;) :heehee:

Wait your turn...I want it first.

I think it will look better on me than that boy Jest, so just ignore him. :heehee: Oh look, he's getting all flustered. :heehee:

Oh, sorry mate, did you want this?

Hah! Gotta earn it!

*swivels on her heels flipping the skirt over her shoulder singing "I know what boys want, I know what boys want...:tongueout "

Jestina
02-19-2007, 08:46 PM
Hmmmm...Two Canadian gurls and an English pirate.


OOOH what fun we could have eh?

I think you should let Poc try on my skirt.

After all thats how I got into this...

Now that IS confusing though...

kerrianna
02-19-2007, 08:49 PM
Hmmmm...Two Canadian gurls and an English pirate.


OOOH what fun we could have eh?

I think you should let Poc try on my skirt.

After all thats how I got into this...

Now that IS confusing though...



Okay, Pocs here you go.

*hands him the skirt. stands watching him expectantdly with a smirk on her face*

pocoyo
02-19-2007, 08:50 PM
*grabs it rudely and puts it on his head*

pocoyo
02-19-2007, 08:55 PM
P.S. I really chuckled at the last 3 posts :D

kerrianna
02-19-2007, 09:04 PM
*grabs it rudely and puts it on his head*

:rolleyes: :heehee: ...just hasn't got a clue does he Jestina?

*shaking head sadly, muttering*

Men! How do they get through the day? :rolleyes:

pocoyo
02-19-2007, 09:09 PM
Hehehe
I dunno, how do we?
*Has hand fiddling in pants*
:lol: :lol2:

kerrianna
02-19-2007, 09:13 PM
:lol: :roflmao:

:rolleyes: You're incorri...incorgi...oh, you're impossible!

*stamps her foot and walks off, trying not to giggle :heehee: *

pocoyo
02-23-2007, 06:31 PM
Haha, well as you know, and as Das pointed out, I haven't seem to have been enjoying or managing to keep the experiment up very well. But it's a necessary process... if I don't do it I will always wonder... and I do want to see how it feels.
So I figure as long as I'm still growing my hair then I am on my way to being able to look properly girly.

I think it's ok to be girly sometimes and boy-y sometimes at the moment.

Tonight again I couldn't face being girly, and went to work trying to look as boyish as I could. I had messy hair (e.g. not styled in a girly way) and had a tiny bit of shading to enhance the shape of my chin and had my male name on my name badge. I also made sure I reeked of aftershave/cologne, instead of my usual unisex fragrance... to further hammer the point home..."I'm male!"

And I wore my willy 2 work for the 1st time.. I didn't even care if anyone noticed! :D It felt lovely :daydreaming:

And despite my girlish locks... I didn't get called "lady" once... hah :D
(I think I did get called "she" but only once and when I was in extreme pain & so letting my guard down... probably yelped in a high voice or something).


[Edit: forgot to say that a couple of nice looking gay boys, came in (well, they registered on my gaydar anyway) they were both good looking and about 5'4. One of them was WELL eyeing me up and smiling very cutely at me, something else similar happened earlier too.. yay! :D

Oh also I did something stupid... "flirted" with a girl, in front of her boyfriend! Haha. She showed me some photo ID and I was like "nice picture btw" and gave her a (hopefully) charming smile, when I handed it back. I felt a bit sheepish dealing with the boyfriend after that :heehee:]

pocoyo
02-23-2007, 07:04 PM
And I wore my willy 2 work for the 1st time.. I didn't even care if anyone noticed! :D It felt lovely :daydreaming:

I told my mum about that ^ and she said that "Oh don't do that.... only because it's so dangerous. I don't want you to get beaten up."

It made me feel a bit angry.

pocoyo
02-24-2007, 11:56 AM
Hehe, there are a lot of people here today, there seems to be some sort of fair on... the roads are busy and there's lots of people milling about, walking up and down and around. Including a bunch of out-of-towners who wouldn't know me from Adam (and so wouldn't recognise me from my "girl mode"). I went out among them, dressed as a boy.

I felt a little bit worried/odd about it at times, which was anxiety carried over from last night I think. (I had a phone call with mum where we discussed TGness again last night and I had ended up feeling quite bad about it all which inevitably evolved into confusion... and worrying about the nature of "me" etc).
Mainly though I felt really nice, sort of relaxed and happy, knowing they were seeing me as a boy. Because I know a lot of them (if not all) did see me as a boy, despite the length of my hair (thank goodness many boys of my style these days have emoey/girly/scruffy/longish hair).

I loved sitting there on a bench in the park while people bustled past occasionally stopping to pet my dog, knowing that not a single curve was showing, and that should anyone happen to look/accidentally notice, that there was a pretty cool bulge showing... if you know what I mean. (Not that they would look, but it made me feel happy/secure/cool knowing it was there! And hey... some people do look sometimes :heehee:).

And I enjoyed people "interacting" (looking, nodding, smiling, whatever) with me as a boy.

*puts hands behind head and sits back and sighs*

aaaaaahhhhhhhh :happy:

bi_weird
02-24-2007, 12:40 PM
Oh silly Poc. You make me smile. Glad your giving yourself a few days off. Flirt with a boy for me, will ya? I'm too shy to flirt successfully in real life.
*doing his best to still be supportive and not pushy* Just be sure that you don't cheat too much. You've said yourself, this experiment is so that you'll know, and won't have to go back. Might as well do it right, so that you can chop off your hair when it's done and never look back. Savvy?

In a totally unrelated note, you guys are getting me all confused. I still pause when I use a male pronoun in reference to me, but I pause now in other places when I use a female one. Currently neither seems right. Oi. Find, I'm taking a step, and wearing boy clothes today, the whole deal, not just the planned boyish shirt, even though I'm seeing my family. But this is not me hijacking Pocs thread, so ignore this.

CaptLex
02-24-2007, 12:42 PM
I don't think you're cheating - you're comparing, right? Gotta have comparisons in any good experiment. You're seeing how it feels in both modes. How else will you be able to find the answers? :happy:

Aha . . . sounds like you're doing your own experimenting, Bi.

pocoyo
02-24-2007, 12:49 PM
Bi - Hehe I will do some flirting for you if I get the chance ;)
Yus yus.... good points....
OI... you can talk about what you want, when you want on my threads silly!!
Don't ever worry about hijacking them :D The only time I ever worry about that is if there's a really important point I want people to read and lots of people totally go off topic! But this is a long and sprawling thread and it doesn't matter at all :hugs: And hey I seem to hijack other people's threads quite often :o
I know what you mean about that pronoun confusion... it does feel quite natural to call myself "he" online because I have been a he online for a loong time. But in real life the pronoun thing gets a bit awkward in front of friends and family.
Also... I say, wear what you're feeling comfortable in ... :D Go Bi!!

Cap... ahhh yes, you are soo right. I was thinking that myself earlier too... maybe the experiment can have some comparisons instead of JUST being girly....
But also, as bi says... I do have to try and do a bit of the girly thing in a solid lump at some point... (haha it's almost like a RLT... seeing if I can live as a girl lol!) :heehee:


Btw... I am thinking of ordering some take away food to get delivered to my place, from a food place I've never tried before... and giving my boy name, and just greeting/paying them/recieving my food as a boy.... (another part of the boy side of the experiment eh Cap?!)

CaptLex
02-24-2007, 12:55 PM
Btw... I am thinking of ordering some take away food to get delivered to my place, from a food place I've never tried before... and giving my boy name, and just greeting/paying them/recieving my food as a boy.... (another part of the boy side of the experiment eh Cap?!)

Sounds good - spoken like a true scientist. If you've never done that in totally boy mode before, you'll be able to see how it feels. :thumbsup:

pocoyo
02-24-2007, 01:00 PM
Sounds good - spoken like a true scientist. If you've never done that in totally boy mode before, you'll be able to see how it feels. :thumbsup:

Teehee! *beams happily*
No I haven't, ever... I just always hope they will assume I'm male, or be female to them 'cos it's easier. I'm always a bit of a chicken because I don't feel like people will believe I'm a boy so I don't do the boy thing properly in real life very often. Especially in situations where I have to talk.
But...*puts on Randall from Monsters Inc. voice)... ya hear that.....?
*there is a faint whistling sound*
.... that's the sounds of the winds, of chaannge!

*puts on stern, determined voice, raises arm aloft and talks to the world....*
Hey, I'm taking control... tonight I am a boy, I say I am a boy, my name is male, I am dressed as and look like a boy... so they will see me as a boy. And that's the way it is. Yus *nods* :happy:

CaptLex
02-24-2007, 01:10 PM
No I haven't, ever... I just always hope they will assume I'm male, or be female to them 'cos it's easier. I'm always a bit of a chicken because I don't feel like people will believe I'm a boy so I don't do the boy thing properly in real life very often. Especially in situations where I have to talk.
I think I can relate. When I go down to the laundromat (in my apartment building), I've never really tried to present as either male or female. I know my new-ish neighbors (been here 4 months now) see me as a female, and I haven't done anything to discourage that 'cause I don't feel like explaining things to people I don't even know well. Lately, I've been thinking I need to present as male as possible (just to do laundry? gads!) so they'll start seeing me that way. But if they ask anything, I'd better be ready with at least a simple answer so they can stop seeing me as female. That didn't make sense - I think I just confused myself there. Anyway, unless I'm going to shave off my beard, then I need to present as male so they don't think I'm their new weird, hairy female neighbor. :eek: Who knew something as simple as laundry could get so complicated?

pocoyo
02-24-2007, 01:17 PM
Hehehe *still giggling from the Elijah post and suddenly finding Cap's "just to do laundry?.. gads! :eek: and "new hairy female neighbour" extremely amusing!*

Awww, there is a lot of frustration and hard work in being transgender... but heck there's a lot of comedy too... what a sit com I could write.. what. a. sit. com. hehe :heehee:

Anyway back to the predicament... aww I do totally understand. And I agree that you should just start being as male to them as you can soon. After all, you are on your way to becoming completely male.

It's a weird thing, sometimes you can get used to seeing someone one way and then they change and you forget the 1st way you saw them and just think of them in their new style. So it could just be a very natural process and they could forget they ever saw you as a woman, or just think "oh... we were wrong."

I think your answer could just be "I'm a man" should they ever ask.
It's hard to tell the physical gender of lots of people, but sometimes once you get told one way or the other you just start seeing them as that. Especially cool in your case as you will be getting more and more male-looking over the next couple of years.

:happy:

pocoyo
02-24-2007, 05:24 PM
I am thinking of ordering some take away food to get delivered to my place, from a food place I've never tried before... and giving my boy name, and just greeting/paying them/recieving my food as a boy.... (another part of the boy side of the experiment eh Cap?!)

Well... I did it, but the bloody food took so long to arrive (2 hours) that I felt so rotten from not eating that I didn't even hardly manage to eat much or enjoy the food because my head was thumping so much. Maybe I'll feel better when the 1st wave of food hits my system...and go back for 2nds ;)

Unfortunately I didn't have to give my name so I couldn't give my male name. And I put my boy voice on (which sounded really lame) but managed to carry out 3 phone conversations and one face to face conversation with it.
The guy didn't show any sign of whether he thought I was male or female but seeing as I had a bit of "stubble" (I knew I could get away with it as I was meeting him in a dark car park), sideburns, and in male clothes I hope he thought I was a boy.

It was such a pain in the ass 'cos I felt so rough and they took sooo long. While I was waiting I kept being paranoid that my boobs were slipping forward (and so maybe would show).... I hate that. And I was really anxious about meeting him in the car park 'cos that meant walking and my balance was feeling sh*tty. So I wanted to take my dog... but that was a stressful thought too because she barks at strangers. So in the end I was so hungry and relieved when he finally called to say he was in the car park I just went down there on my own... and my balance was fine and I was just boyish. Didn't enjoy it very much though because I just felt bleh. If he'd said "thank you sir" then that would have perked me up and made my day, but hey.... at least he didn't say "thank you madam".... :D now THERE's a cool thought :D
(And the Indian people here are so polite that they probably would say thank you madam).

It was actually hard work, because I felt ill & anxious and because I felt all uncomfortable with my boobs and stuff. But I'm glad I did it because it will give me confidence to know I can do it again. (Actually interact with people as a boy in real life instead of just being all quiet and reckoning they think I'm a girl but hoping they think I'm a boy).

[Edit:
Obviously if I transitioned I wouldn't actually have that uncomfortable "making a huge effort" problem because the boobs wouldn't be there and my features would be more male, and my voice would be too. (Just added that because I heard my mum's voice saying "So isn't it just so much easier to just stay a girl?")

Been craving being a boy very much this evening. Ooh dear.]

Lisa Golightly
02-24-2007, 05:26 PM
You think too much Angel :)

pocoyo
02-24-2007, 05:28 PM
Yeah I know... I swear that's half my problem hehe.
:hugs: Sorry about the random hug... I just need that hehe. xx

Lisa Golightly
02-24-2007, 05:30 PM
If I was there I'd happily give you a hug... My feminine intuition tells me you'd appreciate it...

pocoyo
02-24-2007, 05:31 PM
Thank you. Yus :( :bighug:

Tamera
02-24-2007, 05:42 PM
Pocoyo,
Being both male and female is not easy.
I am happy to jump back and forth for there are pro's and con's to both genders.
One fortunate thing you have is you can grow your own hair and be both sexes. Some of us have wigs to acheive our female self for our male profession won't allow long hair.
You must find what makes you happy. Being crossgendered or leading just one gender.
Of course if you choose the female gender as a permanant basis, you know the money involved and what all that partakes.
Fortunatey you are young enough to think this through while some of us are older and wish things were different.
Ask questions!! This is your group therapy. But only you can provide the answers even you seen a shrink the ultimate answer would still be up to you.
Love,
Tamera

CaptLex
02-24-2007, 07:27 PM
Of course if you choose the female gender as a permanant basis, you know the money involved and what all that partakes.
Tamera, can you clarify this please? Are you saying that it's going to take money for Poc to be female? And what do you mean by "all that partakes"? I'm confused. :idontknow:

Kieron Andrew
02-24-2007, 07:29 PM
Tamera, can you clarify this please? Are you saying that it's going to take money for Poc to be female? And what do you mean by "all that partakes"? I'm confused. :idontknow:
im glad im not the only one confused! Tamera Poc is FtM not MtF therefore was born already with a female body

pocoyo
02-24-2007, 07:45 PM
Oh yeah did you just accidentally type female or something? Or did you think I'm a gm? I erm, have a mainly female body at the moment....

Thanks for what you say. Hehe questions it is!
Well I am seeing a therapist starting next week, hopefully she'll lend an understanding ear, but yeah I guess the ultimate decision is up to me :worried:
Cheers Tamera :cheers:
Pocs

bi_weird
02-25-2007, 12:04 AM
Mmm so in update to my "dangit I'm wearing boy clothes home today" bit.
Mom saw the tie and laughed. Dad looked really confused, then decided he wanted to borrow it. (Little brother didn't comment, but he's in college and therefore just sorta accepts stuff). THEN came the fun part: mall trip for spring break necessities. Lemme tell ya, it's fun to try on a skimpy little bikini when you have to take off your tie to do it. Wow did that screw with my head. Then at another store I was looking for pj shorts and decided I might as well buy a three pack of boxers, use one pair for that, and have two pairs leftover for boy mode - first boxers :-). Of course, had to leave them in the care 'til the 'rents went to bed, but I'll be going to get them soon and that'll be exciting. But I made it through the whole trip without incident, and only a few odd looks, which is amazing considering my home town is smallish and conservative.
Okay back to the thread topic. *HUGS POC* Sorry your food was so late, but yay for trying new things. I like this whole experimenting on both sides deal - sounds like fun. Hope next time you can give your name and all that.