Changing peoples views

[noname]

I've been spending some time thinking about the society and all it's hypocrisy. I think it's time to changing peoples views. So, I asked myself, how can this be done? Looking to the past, the gay community had to suck it up and be out and be seen. They gay community has fought hard, they have marches and still work hard. In fact I'd say they have done much work for us. So I ask, why aren't we organized, why arn't we marching, why don't we have some kind of annual gender freedom day or something? Or has this already been tried.

I'm sick and tired at society for the double standards and hypocrisy. I believe we should be entitled to the same rights and respect that women are given! I think it's high time we stand up for ourselves and our rights.

signed,

Someone who's had enough

[Vicky_Scot]

So I ask, why aren't we organized, why arn't we marching, why don't we have some kind of annual gender freedom day or something?

I think the major reason that we are not out there marching and screaming from the roof tops is a simple one.

Majority of crossdressers are in the closet. They are not out to spouses/partners, family or friends never mind society as a whole. This is why IMO we will never get the acceptance we yearn for.

Too march you first have to step out from the closet and that is the stumbling block.

[Joy Carter]

The street will run red with blood, or at least with family and reputations if any of us step out in mass. I think if we go out and behave like ladies and make a positive statement, we will gain more allies than we could otherwise. Who knows after several hundred years we just might be accepted.

[Kate Simmons]

As Skirt Lover said, the biggest issue is the closetted one. It's much easier to retreat from the "kitchen" when things get too hot. That's the nature of the beast really and a conundrum not easily solved. The problem with rallys and marches, is that you tend to be looked at as a bunch of radicals who are demanding your rights in an "in your face" type way. I really don't think that is the tact to use with our particular community. Something low key would be better but what? If we have parades and speakers on various issues, those individuals are usually the ones in the limelight and easily dismissed by others as "nuts". The solidarity issue is the big one in my opinion. Until that is solved, we basically remain where we are and mostly "invisible".:happy:

[ToyGirl]

If you can be a great person and be yourself , then everyone who has the pleasure of interacting with you will walk away with a positive opinion.

exactly what rights do you want?

[tvbeckytv]

exactly what rights do you want?


actually, thats a blooming good question.
i think as far as crossdressing/transgender issues go, i have pretty much the 'right' to do as i please

[Jenn S.]

As long as humans still have blood running through their veins, hypocrisy and discrimination will be present, in some form, in every single one of us. No kind of government and no amount of social engineering will change this. The best thing we can do, I believe, is to conduct ourselves in a responsible manner in our daily lives and form more solid organizations that can help get people to associate with one another.

[Kahlan51]

If you can be a great person and be yourself , then everyone who has the pleasure of interacting with you will walk away with a positive opinion.

exactly what rights do you want?

I agree. We do or don't do mostly out of fear rather than letting our inner strength and values stand up and shout. The fear of consequences in our society is a very real one especially in the area of relationship, family, and jobs. There are no laws for or against CDing so the question of rights is a moot one. :2c: Kahlan

[maryjanecapri]

i couldn't agree with you more. the main reason why we're still having trouble getting accepted in acclimation. we have to get the public acclimated to us. but i do find it ironic that someone espousing standing up for our rights and being seen posts in such an anonymous way.

it must begin by being out there yourself. you mustn't be afraid of who and what you are. do not be ashamed of it.

[carolinebrookes]

Believe it or not, I get exactly what I need and want from my dressing. I don't feel the need to go to marches or rallies all dressed up to gain rights (I already have the right to dress as I like and do what I like dressed, so what are the rights you refer to?)

Sure, we can be looked down upon or looked at as freaks, but it's all about having the confidence to go somewhere en femme if we choose.

Also, the fact that so many girls are still closeted contributes to their reluctance to shout out from the rooftops.

If anyone wants to stage a rally or march then I wish them well and good luck. I'll be the one sitting at the roadside cafe in my best dress and shoes sipping my cappucino with a wry smile and a friendly wave!

[Kimberley]

For a long time I thought about the struggle of the gay community and tried to use it as some sort of model for us but there is a difference and a reason it doesnt work. Gays can function normally in society without anyone knowing of their sexual orientation. To be gay does not mean wearing a big G on your chest. We dont have that luxury.

A lot of their struggles are for equal rights under the law and social systems, rights of succession for partners etc. There are may openly gay legislators, business leaders and lobbyists. We do not have any of these kinds of advocates.

We are not organized in any way. (Please dont try to hold Tri Ess up as a lobby group) We do not have people out of the closet in government or the boardrooms (even though they exist they are under the radar for the same reasons as the rest of us). We do not have the issues the gay community have because we are by and large heterosexual and often with families.

Our issues are with acceptance by society. Yes there can be corporate diversity policies but are they enforced? Not too many of us are out even though they exist and for some who did come out, there were other ways for dismissal, (Funny how that works huh) and not even unions will stand up for your rights in many cases. Our complaints are for societal acceptance moreso than legal ones. Yes, there are legal questions but they are seriously outweighed by the discrimination both overt and covert. You can't legislate acceptance.

Society has to change and for that to happen in requires a few legislators and Fortune 500 execs to get their a***s out of the closet. Wont happen.

:straightface:
Kimberley

[crossing-the-rain]

Great opinion ! Awesome ! But who will step out the first step.Most of us are hidden in the closet ,we are worry our marriage,our family,our kids,our co-worker,our friends,our parents,our communities,our society,our job,our career,our safety,our life.
If we don't care of these issues,we should organised a marching,for our rights,our freedom,our furture,our life.
Who will join the first devision as the first wave to the first marching.
Rain.

[kaitlin]

Hi Girls, These are long fought and seldom won battles for a lot of lets say "different" folks. Early 1900's women just wanting to vote or smoke, 60's and 70's with the hippie movement, gays, (I hate this term) computer geeks. Now us the CD, TS, TG people. And I'm sure I left a few out, but my point is what narrow minded dumb a__ fool or fools, was let set the standard of how we as FREE people are supposed to act and dress? And why did the rest of the world have to follow suit. I can only hope that our children and grand children will do like some did in the past and learn to accept and care for the ones that chose to be different. Kaitlin

[janec]

Hi just a thought but don't we all really want to be invisible when en femme that is to blend in as much as possible while still being our selves isn't being accepted by our wifes and partners rights enough

[NatalieGirl]

I can go out in public dressed as I please. If someone doesn't like it, that is their privilege. As long as they don't assault me or try to prevent me from living my life as I want, I don't care what they think.

The very worst thing we can do is to repeat the mistakes of the homosexuals and throw insults like "bigot" or "homophobe" at our detractors.

Another mistake would be to ally ourselves with the left. We get to hear the moonbats on the left advocate gay rights in the same breath that they advocate increasing taxes, appeasing terrorists, and socialist health care.

Natalie
Conservative Republican, and proud of it.

[Marla S]

exactly what rights do you want?


actually, thats a blooming good question.
i think as far as crossdressing/transgender issues go, i have pretty much the 'right' to do as i please

Yup, I think this is the crucial question, but the provided answer isn't one.
I'd answer: Just do.

I think TSs know by far better what they want and what they need to get, and they are better defined. The whole CD thing is just to waggly, to diffuse and to inconsistant to build a movement on it (Each movement produces victims (martyrs). Who has the guts to take that part ? At least they should know what they are fighting for).
People would need to have a simple, understandable, but sharp message.
Nothing CDs can offer right now.

On a personal level we can be open to our neighborhood, making people used to it and try to explain things when asked. And we can write letters when there is again a commercial, article, or whatever that makes jokes about TG or shows it in a wrong light.
I think that's all we can do right now, and we should.

[NatalieGirl]

Another thought: You cannot change people's views any more than you can change which way the wind is blowing.

[Kimberley]

Rain: Thank you for your comments. Much appreciated.

Kaitlin: I am pinning my hopes for the future on the younger generations. They are far more receptive to diversity than ours but that still has to be nurtured and developed. This still requires an escalation in profile for us. I can hope to see it in my lifetime but I doubt it.

Janec: You are right of course, that is the social goal but some of us want to live and work in our true gender. This is the real obstacle.

Natalie: Of course going out is your prerogative and your want of being safe is natural. Unfortunately it isnt always the case. We have had members assaulted on more than one occasion. Yes, we want that safety but people are who and what they are and we have no control over their actions, only our own. You are right in that any retaliation can escalate a situation so we should just remain quiet and move on. It is a safety factor. Lastly, please keep the politics out of this. We have a forum for political discussion and opinion. This is not the place for it and this was not a political thread in any sense other than the need for people to stand up.

You are also right in your statement that you cannot change people's views. What can change is their approach to diversity; one can be nasty, passive or welcoming despite their personally held beliefs. Sometimes, that is the price of being an adult.

Marla: Hon as usual we are on the same page. :hugs:

Kimberley

[DeeInGeorgia]

Two weeks ago I spent an hour and a half sitting in the waiting area of a GA Department of Driver Services to get an official State ID with my femme picture on it. And the place was crowded and busy. Probably 60 people or so. While there was some anxiety on my part, my worst concern was getting back home. While my SO knows I dress, she does not like me going places alone and she didn't know about my trip to DDS.

[Amy Hepker]

We are standing up for all of us here. There are Marches and Meetings. Join a group like Tri-Ess, get involved with your local groups, if there aren't any, contact Tri-Ess and start a local group or just start one. I think anyone that goes out crossdressed is helping our postion in society. The more we get out the more we will be accepted. In Iowa we have Hate Crime laws that help. This is a step towards our acceptance. I myself am not gay and do not want to be put in that group, I am a Crossdresser. (nothing against Gays) Many of us here feel the same way, we still want realtionships with the opposite sex, we are hetrosexual.

[diane59]

"NoName" one of the first steps in "stepping out" is to identify what you are trying to accomplish. No disrespect intended, but why do you choose not to post a user name that identifies your cause? I choose Diane because that is who I am representing on this forum.
I believe to gain acceptance (which for many of us may never happen) you have to push the envelope a little. Put yourself out there a little bit more and give us an identity in which we could communicate with you as Sisters.:hugs:

[susandrea]

A couple of you got really close to what REALLY needs to (and will!) eventually happen (I believe) because of the secrecy issues that are so deeply embedded in the transgender community as a whole.

Crossdressers in areas of influence need to come out and lead the way.

Politicians, actors, well known business biggies-- respected people WITH INFLUENCE. It's not true that public opinion can never change-- we're STILL changing it and always will be. Also, positive media-- articles, Television, films, documentaries... all that stuff, can go far in shaping public opinion little by little.

We're not finished yet with Civil Rights, Women's Rights, and Gay Rights (it wasn't until 2003 that the Supreme Court finally outlawed anti-homosexual laws in all fifty states!

Transgender is another log on the fire, and while it has latched on for dear life to the gay movement when it comes to the passing of laws, there are baby steps being made on it's own power-- like New York (which still bans gay marriage) recently allowing transgender people to change their gender status without surgery, and is ahead of the rest of the states when it comes to transgender rights.

http://apostille.us/news/sex_change_no_surgery_required.shtml

The other thing is, it should not be solely up to transgendered people to work toward a positive change. It's the responsibility of EVERYONE to want and strive for equal rights for all.

What you can do is make sure you VOTE in every election possible, and, even if you are closeted and/or comfortable with things as they are for yourself, you HAVE to make an effort for the movement as a whole. You have zero excuse for not voting. You can write letters if you want to retain your privacy, even if they're anonymous, to oppose a wrong (like when a transgendered kid has his rights trampled at a school).

Both the gay and transgender communities are still very much at risk by over zealous right wing politicians and it's quite shocking not just at what they try for, but what they can actually accomplish.

It is true and unfortunate that more often than not when the general public hears about a crossdresser in the news it's sensational and derogatory (bank robbers, pantie stealers, ect.) so, as said above, it is very important that those of you who are out make an effort to conduct yourselves responsibly. You already do a super job at reaching out to each other here and offering support to each other. It's vital!

:love:

[Brianna Lovely]

I found myself agreeing with you, about acceptance, until I saw that you really don't show acceptance, at all.

I know I'm a part of the minority around here, but I still find your words, hurtful.
Always With Love,
Brianna


We are standing up for all of us here. There are Marches and Meetings. Join a group like Tri-Ess, get involved with your local groups, if there aren't any, contact Tri-Ess and start a local group or just start one. I think anyone that goes out crossdressed is helping our postion in society. The more we get out the more we will be accepted. In Iowa we have Hate Crime laws that help. This is a step towards our acceptance. I myself am not gay and do not want to be put in that group, I am a Crossdresser. (nothing against Gays) Many of us here feel the same way, we still want realtionships with the opposite sex, we are hetrosexual.

[Deidra Cowen]

Want acceptance? Go on hormones, get FFS, boob job and laser off that body hair...then go freaking stealth!!!! Otherwise just have fun being a CD and keep it undercontrol for your job/family cirmcumstances.

We will never gain acceptance since 99% of us are under cover and can't go out in society and interact. I have seen some girls try to do it here in Atlanta...but it did not work. One girl I really admire tried to be an open Transexual Political Advicate (forgive my spelling). She gave up, changed her name and went stealth. She right now lives and works as a chick and does not get involved in Transgendered issues since we have no real community to draw on that will do anything.

I will point out a very small deal that I have seen happen. When the CDs/Tgirls in Atlanta started going to the theme party Twinkledome here in Atlanta at a straight bar. We got lots of looks and I even had one of my friends get harrassed by two guys. But as time went on the crowd got used to us and these days we are full intergrated into the little scene with that party. GGs and Guys talk and dance with us, everyone has a blast and we seem to be very accepted by the rest of the crowd.

That could happen with society in general if we all went public...but its not going to happen. Just like me...I need my job, but no way in the world could I be a tranny at work. Would lose my job. Also do not want to put my kids thru a bunch of turmoil. So I am a guy around them and their friends. Therefore I am part of the problem too! :eek: I know that, but just live with things as they are....and try to have freaking fun while I can. Damn life is short.

[Bethanygirl]

Ok, I will probably get flamed for this, but the way I see it, many of you want your so's, and society in general to accept you, when you don't accept yourselves. If you wish acceptance, then all you have to do is be whatever you want to be, and in time, you will be accepted however you are. There is no magic here, the world cannot make you acceptable, only you can do that by discovering who you truly are, and living it, accepting yourself as your self-image dictates. It is not societies responsibility, it is yours. Accept the limitations that come with being who you are, just as everyone else in the world does, or don't, it is up to you, but wanting your cake and eat it too is a bit much to expect don't you think?

[tvbeckytv]

Another thought: You cannot change people's views any more than you can change which way the wind is blowing.


only true for folk with dogmatic politics, so i wont argue

[Christina Nicole]

Oh! Is it time for the bi-weekly, "I want my rights" thread again? These are wonderful threads! I find them very enjoyable.

Lets see, one person posts, "I'm sick and tired at society for the double standards and hypocrisy." While another writes, "Both the gay and transgender communities are still very much at risk by over zealous right wing politicians and it's quite shocking not just at what they try for, but what they can actually accomplish. They have a great deal of power and a big head start. And they hate you and some have made it their mission in life to make you go away."

Well it's that sweet? Nothing like a little hate, stereotyping, and - yes, hypocrisy from the left wing to "balance" the imagined threat from the right.

Then we have, "I know I'm a part of the minority around here, but I still find your words, hurtful," in response to "I myself am not gay and do not want to be put in that group, I am a Crossdresser. (nothing against Gays) Many of us here feel the same way, we still want realtionships [sic] with the opposite sex, we are hetrosexual. [sic]" A little oversensitive to what was posted. Cross dressing has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with sexual orientation. Statistically, most cross dressers are heterosexual, so why is pointing that out hurtful? Logically, there is no reason to couple the homosexual's agenda with that of the transgendered. There's practically no intersection of interests. I'm TG, I go out and I think the gay lobby is off its nut on some things, like gay "marriage." But that's another topic.

Mostly, I agree with what Diedra and and Bethany posted. Read their posts. They make sense. If you want to do something, go out and be seen. But if you do so don't expect acceptance if you look like a circus sideshow. Even a real woman wouldn't be accepted at the mall, for example, if she were dressed in a fetish leather, miniskirt and hooker style makeup. Save that stuff for home if you must indulge in it. If you're going to go out, dress like a real woman would and, more importantly, behave like a lady. If people start seeing crossdressers as regular people and not looking like freaks, the image might cement itself in their minds. On the other hand, if they see freaks, people will think freaks.

When I was out last Saturday, I was dressed in casual slacks, sweater, and shoes -- pretty much in a similar style to the real woman there. I met a friend, a real woman, and we shopped a bit, had lunch, etc. No problems. Let people see TG folk acting normally and eventually it will be seen as normal. No marches, no fiery speeches, and no inflammatory rhetoric necessary.

Warm regards,
Christina Nicole

[Sally24]

For those that can get outside of the confines of our own homes en femme, we have multiple opportunities to interact with people, and maybe change some views. If you get "read" or someone makes a comment to you, make that a positive thing and keep your cool and your positive attitude. Let them see that you are not afraid and you're not a freak.

A group in Boston that I am a member of makes it a point to go out to many places, gay and straight to be visible. People love us most places and tolerate us everwhere! We have had many curious people slide over and start asking us timid questions. Before long we've made a new friend and possibly a supporter in the future.

It doesn't require marches and protests so much as grass roots contact with people. A quote that I heard from Jennifer Finney Boylan (not her own though) was "It's hard to hate a person whose story you know". If you do go out and about make it a point to be a positive image. If you get the opportunity to inform people, grab it and run with it!

Anybody whose been around for more than 20 years realises how much our public acceptance or image has changed. It was unheard of even a decade ago most places to run into a CD in public, let alone 10-20 of them in a group public meeting.

Do what you can in your own situation. I have fun, but I also try to do some good for all my sisters at the same time.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sisters_of_boston/

Sally

[Kimberley]

Christina, I think the intent here extends beyond an afternoon shopping or lunch with the girls. I think the intent here is for a broader application and that is of TG in the public eye, at work etc.

Yes getting out there and mingling does some good, or does it? Do passers by get to know the person or just look and keep their opinions to themselves? I hardly think that qualifies as being an ambassador. Certainly seeing us behaving normally sends a message but it is one that is superficial at best. The public still dont see the person, they see a societal outcast and ignore it for the most part. A few will not and will engage us but mostly they dont. They politely look away or walk away.

I am not arguing against this only trying to put it into perspective.


Waiting for change before you do something is like looking in a mirror and saying you move first.

:hugs:
Kimberley

[noname]

Good posts. Best question of all, what rights do I want? Before I begin, I will say I am out, though I never try to pass and don't have any interest in it.

Giving it some thought, I'd like to be free from harassement. For example, the gal that snickered at me when I was reaching in my black bag for my keys. I would also like the right to wear what I want, this including work. Oh yeah, there was that one time I met my wife AFTER church and someone took me by the arm and escorted me to the pastor because my toes were painted. But really, to sum it all up. I would like the right to be treated like a normal person no matter what I wear, just like women are. They don't risk losing their friends and careers for wearing pants or a tie?

** Angry rant **

Apparently, my employer has decided that if you have boobs your feet look good in sandals. Tired of the sexist dress code. Job is low pay and considering quiting anyway. I might just push the limits for fun. Perhaps I should wear carpis to work?

** End Angry ran **

So, what right am I wanting. The right to be treated like a normal human with the same opportunites woman are.

[battybattybats]

For those afraid of negative ramifications from those who might recognise them, what about marching while wearing masquerade masks..?

[Kimberley]

That might get the media out and not necessarily good results. I for one use my intelligence and computer to write. I have written to members of parliament, newspapers, television and websites putting forward the positives of our lives.

I have also called people on their s**t, including the Prime Minister of Canada. (Why should he get away with discriminatory remarks?) I have written to diversity trainers to inquire why LGBT issues are not a part of their cirriculum.

In short, I refuse to sit still and do nothing. If each of us can get just one person to think twice before acting then we have doubled the population of understanding. My goal is to get as many people as I can to think. Of course there are some people who just have to wear a dunce cap but there is no hope for them, they came from the bottom of the gene pool.

:hugs:
Kimberley

[myMichelle]

If you can be a great person and be yourself , then everyone who has the pleasure of interacting with you will walk away with a positive opinion

This advice is so true!!!! It summs up the basic principle I try to live by when enfemme.

This is one of those hotbed issues that will always draw a large number of responses. Even among the crossdresing community, I'm not sure if we could ever agree on just one "correct" answer to your question. That's why, in the end, for me personally, it all boils down to just setting the best example I can whenever I venture out...even if I change one person's mind, it's all been worth it. Hope this helps

[Christina Nicole]

A snicker is hardly harassment. Harassment is fearing for your life because of showing a movie, (reference (http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1090702,00.html)) or not being able to get food, being tortured, etc(reference (http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/prk-summary-eng)), and so forth. And while I can understand wanting to, for example, go to work in a nice woman's suit sometimes, I can see the employer's point of view that such a thing could be very disruptive in an office.

I guess we'll have to disagree on this. I go pretty much everywhere I want to go as a woman. The only places I don't go are work and social functions. That's good enough for me. I hope you find what you're looking to find.

Warm regards,
Christina Nicole

[noname]

And while I can understand wanting to, for example, go to work in a nice woman's suit sometimes, I can see the employer's point of view that such a thing could be very disruptive in an office.

I don't think youi read my post, as I don't try to portray myself as a women.

In regards to my employer, the women wear cargo pants and sandles. NOT heals, but like nike sport sandles. Guys have to wear slacks or kackies (sp?). If that isn't discrimination I don't know what is.

Can you please tell me how me wearing cargo pants and nike sandals is any more disruptive than a women doing it?

[Melanie R]

Change in the opinions of society toward our community can change over time. Over 18 years ago several of us (CD's) started going to a straight club in Houston on Saturday night, The Palm Beach Club. This was a club in a suburban Hilton Hotel which drew over 300 on Saturday nights. At first we were a novelty with many questions from the patrons. Over time more from the local TG community were present on Saturday nights with almost complete acceptance from the patrons. Within 5 years of our first visit people and especially couples told us that they came to the club just to be with our group. We insisted that everyone from the TG community must dress and act with dignity. Some were lead out the door who acted and looked like hookers. Unfortunately Hilton sold the hotel in 2000 and the club closed permanently. I beleive that during the 12 years that the club was opened our Houston TG community educated many people who changed their opinions about our community.

[noname]

We insisted that everyone from the TG community must dress and act with dignity.

So very much agree. I feel it's always import to have positive affect.

[Kate Simmons]

From what I understand, there is a club about an hour from me that has a free buffet every Thursday night with dancing and a DJ afterward. According to one of the local M T F gals who goes there every week, there is a lot of acceptance for the group that goes there and this is primarily a "straight" club, so I guess "baby steps" do work sometimes. Even if progress seems to be "slow", I guess this method kind of works.

[megan wright]

I believe that the continued work of good people like all of us here will in time have its affect on society. Nearly 100 years ago it was not socially acceptable for women to wear pants. Look how far they have come. I think that in time, with continued efforts we will effect societies views and it will one day not matter to society what one wears. I read these threads and continually see that most people already do not pay attention to what we wear most of the time. It seems to be more that teen or one or two with not enough to do that has the time to notice and make a scene. I am grateful for all of you girls and keep up the great work. The next generation may have it a bit easier because of our efforts.