" CAN WE DO SOME THING ABOUT IT?"

[biddy]

It would seem that we are basicaly as a group going on the comments in M > F forum thread titled "I Have A Question by True Gemini, that we are more then a little frustrated at our ability to be able to help persons under 18yrs of age.
I would assume that the bulk of us had to start our CDing life in the cupboard and are aweare of exactly how damaging that is to our self esteems our sex lives and socialising as teens our ability to feel safe and secure in life in general. Tristen mentioned one site that is directed at teens, then there's a post saying that adults frequent that site, (I would suggest that to be just a tad susicidical).:rolleyes:
I appricate that they can not particapate in this forum as that just leeds to insurmountabale problems in the legal arreanas. How-ever there must be one of the biggest gathering of people of all kinds of skills here amoung our-selfs, I am sure that CDing dose not only happen to lets say SKY LIGHT CLEANERS I feel it is a part of every proffesion going. I also appricate that NO-ONE likes to work when they finnish for the day.
" HOW EVER"
If we are to expect soceity to abbandon it attude of " THERE IS SOME-THING WRONG WITH THOSE PEOPLE" toward us, then we have to take the innisitive and stop validating their susspicions by HIDDING. I feel that the persons of our era with our more modern means of comunicating are moraly liable to attempt this task. To achieve it I feel we need to encourage our youth to openly at least amoung them-selfs discuss what is happening to them.
For my part I am an Aussie and will be contacting Family Planning here to-morrow and enquireing as to WHAT is available for youth in this area, my back is up,:mad: so pity them if they say "NOTHING".:cool:
" WHAT DO YOU THINK GIRLS?"
(appoligies over spelling)
Tristen I accept my public smack on the hand for not putting this in the lounge where it probably belongs. "OUCH THAT HURT":o

[ChristineRenee]

I appreciate what you are saying and trying to do here Biddy. I agree that young people need an outlet and access to people like us to help answer questions about what they are going through. It would seem that this forum would be ideal in that regard, and yet that "must be 18 or older" rule does apply and in most instances is necessary. We are kinda caught between a rock and a hard place on this issue. I certainly am supportive of what you are doing, and have a lot of experience with being a CD/TG that I am willing to share with anyone seeking advice. I just don't know how that best can be accomplished with the must be 18 years old rule in place. I wish I could be of more help here Biddy as I think you are very sincere about this cause in wanting to help educate the young. The only way society is ever going to evolve is through the education of the masses to what the CD/TG/TS community is all about.

I think you have a good point of reference to start with. I would certainly lend my support to your cause where I can and I hope that you can achieve some results in this area.


Love,
Christine Renee

[Georgette]

Biddy we have to be very careful as to who we encourage to CD as it's the law in most states and countries, we certianly do not want to be accused of being pedofiles that would severly hinder what ever progress that we have made thus far. I was invited to meet a CD but it sounded like a little trap by local law enforcement that I bailed, yes they want to be in the paper as to say look we got us a pedifile that preys on the young and innocent. If I am wrong on this I appoligise, if not I did it right. Just my views on this under18 thing.

[sherri]

Biddy, these kids are pretty good at using the Internet and finding each other online. Most of them would rather interact with each other than with us anyway. Go to livejournal.com and do a search on crossdressing and you'll see what I mean.

[biddy]

Biddy, these kids are pretty good at using the Internet and finding each other online. Most of them would rather interact with each other than with us anyway. Go to livejournal.com and do a search on crossdressing and you'll see what I mean. I've just had a small preview of the site and am not so shore that I would see it as informitive information for teens, I will look further into this site latter when time allows. I basicly seen adds, could be that I have not looked hard enough at this point. I would at this stage say that my train of thought is not for them to talk to us, I agree that they probably would rather not. My point is that I can't find some-where where they can go that is SAFE and CONSTRUCTIVE with open minded guidence for them and the added protections of no access for people who would not have teens well-being at heart. Thank you for the info though.:)

[sherri]

I've just had a small preview of the site and am not so shore that I would see it as informitive information for teens, I will look further into this site latter when time allows.
I didn't say it was. I was saying it is a place for peer interaction.


I basicly seen adds, could be that I have not looked hard enough at this point.
You must be looking at the wrong site. LiveJournal is a blog site. There isn't any advertising.


I would at this stage say that my train of thought is not for them to talk to us, I agree that they probably would rather not. My point is that I can't find some-where where they can go that is SAFE and CONSTRUCTIVE with open minded guidence for them and the added protections of no access for people who would not have teens well-being at heart. Thank you for the info though.:)
I understand what you want, and your intentions are honorable, just not very realistic. Advising adults in one thing, counseling kids quite another. You'd have to be crazy to try it online unless you're a peer or a qualified professional. The latter are going to prefer in-person counseling, for good reason.

[biddy]

I didn't say it was. I was saying it is a place for peer interaction.


You must be looking at the wrong site. LiveJournal is a blog site. There isn't any advertising.


I understand what you want, and your intentions are honorable, just not very realistic. Advising adults in one thing, counseling kids quite another. You'd have to be crazy to try it online unless you're a peer or a qualified professional. The latter are going to prefer in-person counseling, for good reason. Sherribicd, I feel that our wires are getting crossed here, I in no way want the people of this forum to advise minors on CDing. I believe I stated in the thread starter that this is not a viabale option, nor is having them particapate in the forum an option. As I stated I would do in the thread, I went to Family Planning to-day and questioned them on what is avaiable for under 18yrs old, when it came to them 1st decovering that there may be a possibility, that they are CD, or indeed any sexual varyiant. I was assured that any minor that approched them with these concerns, would be delt with in a confidentual, non discrimatory way. They explained that they do go into the education system as educators of safe sex and sexual responsibilities, the functions of male and female bodies, they also very lightly touch on sexual variation, they do not how-ever, go into detail as this conflicts with appropiateness ect, ect. (basicaly the same legal hassels we'd have.) :cool:
During my interview I explained my results from hidding, as a person who has not particapated emotionaly, socialy nor sexualy in society. I explained that I held the inappropiate way that I was handeled in my early discovery years of CDing, as the majior contributor to that result. I was assured that when they all get to-geather for their annual meeting to discuss policy, that the idea of a safe profesionaly guided, exclusive for teenagers site, covering all sexual variants will be mentioned as a health issue.
I appricate all the views that have been put foward so far in this thread and hope for more.
" I KNOW THAT I CAN NOT CHANGE THE WORLD "
HOW-EVER
" I FEEL THAT WE CAN "
;)
Watch out world BIDDY has her KNICKERS in a NOT as long as I breath air is this kind of IGNORANCE and BARSTEDRY toward youth going unchallanged.

IS O.K. GIRLS biddy IS THINKING ABOUT GETTING OF THE SOAP BOX NOW.:eek:

[Rachel Ann]

I was invited to meet a CD but it sounded like a little trap by local law enforcement
Yes, all of the personals sites are crawling with that sort of thing. Even the "mainstream" ones like match.com.


Biddy, our hearts go out to these young people but any attempt to communicate with them, however well-meant, can get this forum, and each of us individually, into unthinkable trouble. Especially those of us who live in the US.

LiveJournal is just that - peoples' journals and others' reactions to them. None of the information is necessarily reliable. Unlike this forum, they aren't even moderated unless somebody complains about something.

However, They are not without resources. A Google search on "crossdresser transgender youth OR teen" yielded about 77,300 hits. These appeared on the first page alone:

http://www.ringsurf.com/netring?action=info&ring=transyouth

http://www.tgcrossroads.org/resources/details.asp?id=248

http://www.lambdalegal.org/cgi-bin/iowa/documents/record?record=1504

http://www.youth-guard.org/pflag-tnet/booklet.html

It is also, of course, unwise to recommend any of these in particular unless you know a lot more about them than what their websites say.

But, Biddy, I will give you high marks for good intentions. :) If you really feel strongly about getting involved, your best bet is probably to volunteer at a recognized local youth TG program. Try adding "Australia" and the name of your town to the Google search arguments above.

[biddy]

I have just taken council



" THE FUTURE WILL LOOK AFTER IT-SELF";)

[Tristen Cox]

As those in their teens have so many directions to go in their life, it would be of the most importance to set up some kind of help that not only deals with education about CDing(and transgender issues) but also the 'appropriateness' in society. There can be quite alot of damage done by being alone in the world, as I have myself have experienced first hand, and having no guide or support.

Here I have meet people that only after fifty years finally take a step out of their closet, and suddenly see a beautiful world open up to them. How sad it is they have to wait so long when it could have been avoided by making options open for them to function and indulge in what they feel they like. It has lead others into terrible states of depression fearing the world around them would turn their backs and shun them from society. Well we are society too. The sooner they realise this and start making it more favorable for our youth to express themselves early on the better.

It 'is' a health issue. One of mind and emotion, and very real indeed. Everything we do, everything that happens to us when we are young changes the course of our entire lives. Also if we wait many years then finally open the door because we can bear hiding no longer, this becomes much more serious and we may have a lot more to lose at this point. Family, children, friends..etc

In my mind as a teen, I would be looking for something I 'want' to be apart of, and feel comfortable with. And there are many ways that can go without some kind of guidelines set forth, and help when you need it. It's scary to even think about now. But it is reality. The children are our future.





Love
Tristen

[sherri]

As those in their teens have so many directions to go in their life, it would be of the most importance to set up some kind of help that not only deals with education about CDing(and transgender issues) but also the 'appropriateness' in society.
I couldn't agree more with you guys. I doubt anyone here would disagree. That doesn't change the reality of legal liability — some of which is justified, by the way. There is a limit to how involved we should get in the lives of other people's kids. As a devoted parent, I can tell you I wouldn't like some stranger "coaching" my kids, and I would be willing to go to considerable lengths to put a stop to it.

The best thing we can do is to work through proper channels, like Biddy is doing. Attempting counseling online without credentials is inviting disaster. The most we can safely do online is to perhaps point kids to qualified professional resources. If this forum tried to do any more than that, it would probably scare me enough to discontinue my participation.

[Jennifer_G]

I found this childrens & teens TG site.

http://www.mermaids.freeuk.com/

I've not really looked at the content though.

[Tristen Cox]

Sherri make no mistake, I never said that 'we' ourselves or anyone from this forum should do this, it is up to the rest of society to wake up and start doing something for the children of this world before things get out of hand and they are struggling adults or even worse. Legally we would get screwed. And no parent would be trusting enough to let their child be involved in such a community as we have here. This is not the place for their children. But there should be somewhere for them and their children to find the proper assistence.
If we tried to do that this forum would end up scrutenized and closed down. :(
I don't want that to happen.

Love
Tristen

[Tristen Cox]

I found this childrens & teens TG site.

http://www.mermaids.freeuk.com/

I've not really looked at the content though.

I have just looked at this site. I think the contents are a good start in the right direction. Hearing the words of a 7 year old takes me back further than I may want, but they need some kind of outlet and feedback so as to choose the path to follow. Without knowing where to go it's very easy to become hopeless. I hope there are more sites like that for them.




:)

[sherri]

Sherri make no mistake, I never said that 'we' ourselves or anyone from this forum should do this
Thanks Tristen. I just needed to hear someone say that (I'm a literal person). I hope this is an official policy of this forum. With that worry out of the way, we can concentrate on things that will work.

xoxo

[Krissi]

Helping teens is a very difficult thing to do in any aspect of life, let alone such a sensitive subject as Crossdressing and sexuality. I know that this, or really any site is not the answer to helping them. I think more than helping those who are 17 & younger cope with the issues at hand, we need to have better resources for those that turn 18 and are still interested. I know I dressed a lot from 11-about 15. Its funny how when that drivers license came that dressing was not as important. It wasn't until I was about 19 or so before I even thought much about dressing. Some may have an interest young, but never really go any further.

Others might hit 18 and really bloom. Look at Valarri (TXRachel) She has been in this forum a while now and if you've followed her posts from then to now, you can see the support has really helped her accept and move past some of the fears we all have. Our problem is there is no way to know who wants our help and who doesn't, or even who dresses and who doesnt for that matter.

I try to go out of my way to be supportive of those 18-25ish college age dressers. I'll always answer any question I can. In any discussion like this I always try to keep it more about dressing and looks, clothes, mannerisms, etc and keep it away from a sexual nature. The way I look at it, there are a lot of GGs that age range that are trying to figure out sex, same with dressers, they just have a few more things to come to terms with.

The only parting advice I would have for anyone under age is to take your time, be true to yourself and don't let any kind of pressure (peer or self inflicted) lead you down a path. You'll be an adult soon enough, then you can explore these topics in more detail at that time.

No matter how you try and safeguard it, a website designed to help that age group would just end up making everyone a target. Pedo's would use it not to help but hurt these kids. The cops would use it to try and trap Pedo's (and more than a few innocent folks that just want to help). They more than likely would get people trying to help them figure out sex issues and not much help on the more basic gender/dressing issues. I see soo many posts on here that start something like..."I like to wear womens clothes am I gay?" That is the issue we need to help folks with, attire has nothing to do with sexuality!

Okay, who's next on the soapbox...lol

[KewTnCurvy GG]

assume that the bulk of us had to start our CDing life in the cupboard and are aweare of exactly how damaging that is to our self esteems our sex lives and socialising as teens our ability to feel safe and secure in life in general.


Are you related to Wendy (aka WendyMe)?? He he, just kidding.

Sweety, I'm all for providing support to the ones under 18. But just as a lesbian support board or anything related couldn't encourage the under 18 to participate; I don't think we can either. I think they need their own board with a moderator who is of like age (say 18, 19 or what have you). It's not our place to support them and the possibility of accusations towards any of us is too great and a bad risk. I would also say that they are being supported by just being able to read our stories here. I'm sure they have been comforted by more than one of our grrlz stories and experiences.

Anyhow, that's me 2 cents!

hugs
kew

[sherri]

attire has nothing to do with sexuality!
Um, that statement might be a stretch. Definitely does not apply to me.

[Danny]

On another thread, Tristen made a reference to

http://crossdressers-forum.com/forums/

as a site that accepts participation of individuals 13 years and older.

I have posted there but did not try to evaluate it in terms of teenage participation. Perhaps this is a useful resource for young people. It seems a very respectable forum and apparently not in the throes of legal battles over its age policies.

With the current media-whipped hysteria about pedophilia, and the resulting atmosphere of fear, I can certainly understand why individuals are totally risk averse on the subject. The possible legal consequenses are just too severe.

But, it also seems sad that an individual crossdresser, who commits no indecency worse than wearing the clothing of the opposite gender, assumes that merely speaking to a young person on the subject will be automatically judged to constitute child molestation.

[sherri]

But, it also seems sad that an individual crossdresser, who commits no indecency worse than wearing the clothing of the opposite gender, assumes that merely speaking to a young person on the subject will be automatically judged to constitute child molestation.
Danny, it's not just a matter of molestation as we normally think of it, although the term can be applied very broadly by authorities and litigants to include a host of psychologically and sexually charged ramifications. There are also issues of being perceived as encouraging aberrant behavior, contributing to delinquency, causing emotional distress and moral turpitude. Moreover, even if our motives weren't considered suspect, many parents would, on general principle and for some good reasons, strenuously object to our interference.

But if we were to assume for a moment that we wouldn't get into trouble for "speaking" to young people, my question is, should we? There is abundant evidence, including threads in this forum, that crossdressing is all tangled up with emotional, psychological, spiritual and sexual issues. What's more, for a significant number of people it causes marital problems, isolation, depression, obsessive / compulsive behavior and dysfunction, and to some degree it puts us at risk among the general population. To my mind, that makes interacting directly with young people a sobering proposition.

Nevertheless, some kids are going to go through this whether we help them or not, and given their natural inclinations to take things to the extreme and their limited ability to gauge consequences, it is natural to want to help them. We might even have an ethical obligation to help them. I believe that can best be done in collaboration with professional counselors better qualified to handle such things, and through channels carefully orchestrated to minimize the risk of doing more harm than good. Perhaps our responsibility is to strive to ensure that those professionals and channels truly understand us and the issues with which we contend.

One more thought: in terms of direct dialogue, I for one would be much more comfortable talking to a parent than a child — or better yet, the two of them together — in the interest of helping that parent to understand what the child is going through and how to help him or her.

[Danny]

Danny, it's not just a matter of molestation as we normally think of it, although the term can be applied very broadly by authorities and litigants to include a host of psychologically and sexually charged ramifications.........One more thought: in terms of direct dialogue, I for one would be much more comfortable talking to a parent than a child — or better yet, the two of them together — in the interest of helping that parent to understand what the child is going through and how to help him or her.

Sherri, I cannot disagree with any of the points in your excellent and thoughtful post.

I just wish that the subject could more often be addressed in such a thoughtful manner rather than taking the knee-jerk, "OMG we'll go to jail", approach.

I am less interested in providing any sort of specific guidance or counseling for young people with CD/TG tendencies than that they have access to a forum where they can hear others express their opinions and experiences on the subject and learn that they are not alone. And I remain skeptical that providing such a forum is impossible without the exposure to unacceptable legal risk.

But, this forum is certainly not the one to do that given its rather freewheeling nature. And earlier posts in this thread have suggested various possible alternatives for young people. So, maybe the resources are out there for young people after all.

[Tamara Croft]

Hmmm.... you know when you were younger, think about what it would have been like to find a support group with loads of teenagers that were the same way as you. Think about how it would have been to interact with others, that had the same feelings as you and they thought there was something wrong with them. Think about how many lives have been lost because there isn't any support for children that age...

We can look into legalities and find out if we could support a teenage section, I'm quite sure there are a few here that would be willing to offer support and advice to them. There are a lot of parents here that could give advice to them and I mean advice... not tell them what they should or should not do. I would like to think if my daughter ever had a problem she couldn't talk out with me, there was somewhere she could go to talk about it.

If there were a forum set up for teenagers... it could be set up in a way to disable PM's and emails and I'm sure the admin could come up with moderators they know would run it with care. It could be set up for under 18's only to view and/or post in it.

Tamara x

[sherri]

And I remain skeptical that providing such a forum is impossible without the exposure to unacceptable legal risk....... So, maybe the resources are out there for young people after all.
I promise I'm not trying to have the last word here.

I think the key to minimizing risk in any forum is the involvement of qualified (translate "certified") professionals and encouraging parental participation. My only question then would be, will kids still want to participate?

I have raised five good kids and we have good relationships, but I know one thing to be universally true: starting at about age twelve and lasting til they're around 21, the learning that kids seek on their own (as opposed to the learning adults want them to do) they seek from their peers.

My hope would be that because gender issues are so poignant and even peers can fail to understand, kids will take help where they can find it, even if there are adults involved. In the right venue, they would be fortunate to have the help of thoughtful, compassionate people such as yourself.

[sherri]

We can look into legalities
Better hire a lawyer.


and find out if we could support a teenage section, I'm quite sure there are a few here that would be willing to offer support and advice to them. There are a lot of parents here that could give advice to them
Can crossdressers buy malpractice insurance? :p


I would like to think if my daughter ever had a problem she couldn't talk out with me, there was somewhere she could go to talk about it.
Obviously I think you're great :) , I really do, but when it comes to an issue like gender identification, I'm not sure that attitude could be described as typical. For every person like yourself, I could probably show you a hundred parents who would want to nail someone's hide to the barn door.


It could be set up for under 18's only to view and/or post in it.
That's a lot more difficult than you might think. At the very least it would require certifiable parental permission.

[Tamara Croft]

Those are my thoughts and questions Sherri... whether it could actually be set up. As for parents... I know a few I would like to string up too... I mean it's worth looking into, maybe ask the other forum how they set it up and the legalities... but like you said... it's the parental consent.

Tamara x

[biddy]

Hmmm.... you know when you were younger, think about what it would have been like to find a support group with loads of teenagers that were the same way as you. Think about how it would have been to interact with others, that had the same feelings as you and they thought there was something wrong with them. Think about how many lives have been lost because there isn't any support for children that age...

We can look into legalities and find out if we could support a teenage section, I'm quite sure there are a few here that would be willing to offer support and advice to them. There are a lot of parents here that could give advice to them and I mean advice... not tell them what they should or should not do. I would like to think if my daughter ever had a problem she couldn't talk out with me, there was somewhere she could go to talk about it.

If there were a forum set up for teenagers... it could be set up in a way to disable PM's and emails and I'm sure the admin could come up with moderators they know would run it with care. It could be set up for under 18's only to view and/or post in it.

Tamara x Tamara, If only the systems around us (out side this forum) could have your vission.;)

[Melissa A.]

Just a thought here, and I understand the ramifications of angry parents, legal troubles, bad press, even being shut down.

We're not talking about sex, here, or even talking about it.(I know we all discuss fantasies, our sex lives etc. here, but I NEVER would with a minor).

We're not talking about one of us (an adult) meeting a minor, for any reason.

We are talking about wearing clothing!
Putting on makeup!
And talking about it.
Big deal.

This just occured to me while reading all the posts here. I understand everyone's concerns and fears, and until a few minutes ago, I would have been inclined to agree with most of you. Y ou make good points.

So call this a revelation, maybe a simple, naiive one. I know an open discussion about dressing among crossdressers can lead to things, especially among hormone raging teens, can lead to places that can result in just the kind of problems we want to avoid.

All I'm saying is, we are talking about wearing clothing, that's it. And how it makes you feel, both while you do it and in relation to the rest of the world. ( I know, that's where the problems start).

All the same, it's still not about any illegal activities. It's about wearing clothing.

I'm no lawyer, and I know this world (especially the U.S., unfortunately) is full of alot of inolerant reactionaries.

But it's still just clothes. Maybe there is a way.

Hugs,

Melissa :)

[sherri]

I know we all discuss fantasies, our sex lives etc. here, but I NEVER would with a minor
You mean you would never knowingly discuss them with a minor, right? And can you be sure everyone will exercise your good judgement?


All I'm saying is, we are talking about wearing clothing, that's it.
Patently not true. Lot's of other aspects get discussed, some very graphic, others with far-reaching ramifications.


I know an open discussion about dressing among crossdressers can lead to things, especially among hormone raging teens, can lead to places that can result in just the kind of problems we want to avoid.

And how it makes you feel, both while you do it and in relation to the rest of the world. ( I know, that's where the problems start).

and I know this world (especially the U.S., unfortunately) is full of alot of inolerant reactionaries.
All true.

[Melissa A.]

Hi Sheri,

OK ya shot me down real well. But just the fact that you agreed with some of what I said shows that I was trying to look at this from both sides. Maybe there is no way to help underage cds. I just wish there was.

I know it is a bit more complicated than just wearing clothes. My point was that the activity itself is not illegal, and does not in itself, involve sex, or anything that could be construed as predatory, even giving advice. And I know you can't count on everyone to exercise good judgement. I was simply exploring the possibilities.

I'm not trying to jeopardize what we have, Sheri, I just feel for those who feel different, and wonder why. As many of us did once. And I'm not saying you don't. I know where you are coming from, and in many ways, I agree.

Hugs,

Melissa :)

[Amelie]

Don't forget,,, PMing is also part of this forum. Underage children will be able to PM anyone on this site.
I said this months ago when this subject came up. If some members feel it is alright to have underage children on this site, then they should put their children on this site to meet the other Cds. If you are not willing to put your sons, daughters, nephews, nieces on this site( even if they don't crossdress) then you should not allow other parents children here either.

[sherri]

Shooting you down is not my objective, Melissa.

[Melissa A.]

I Know Sheri. Have seen enough of you to know that. Hope you now know I didn't mean anything by it. :)

[biddy]

Children in this FORUM is not a viable option in this debate, right at the beginings of the thread " THAT WAS SPELT OUT" It could only lead to DISARSTER for us . Our forum would not be able to function as it dose now with minors present.

[sherri]

I Know Sheri. Have seen enough of you to know that. Hope you now know I didn't mean anything by it. :)
*smooch*

[sherri]

Don't forget,,, PMing is also part of this forum. Underage children will be able to PM anyone on this site.
I said this months ago when this subject came up. If some members feel it is alright to have underage children on this site, then they should put their children on this site to meet the other Cds. If you are not willing to put your sons, daughters, nephews, nieces on this site( even if they don't crossdress) then you should not allow other parents children here either.
Good point Amelie.

And if I were the Admin here, I'd be thinking, "Why are they even discussing this? It ain't gonna happen."

[Melissa A.]

I know minors are not an option here. Just was wondering if there was another way to help, give advice, let them know they are not alone. As you were.

Hugs,

Melissa :)

[biddy]

I know minors are not an option here. Just was wondering if there was another way to help, give advice, let them know they are not alone. As you were.

Hugs,

Melissa :) You've hit the nail square on the head there Melissa, I've seen suggestions of various web sites that may or may not be helpful, to Teens. I'm OZ so I went to the organization that is set up for this kind of need, (toward beginning of thread) dose America have simular programs? Is it possible to perhaps lobby them to set up a safe site under their supervision for teens?