More Progress

[Ashleigh]

WELL! Things do have a way of happening. As you all know my wife is mostly supportive of my CDing. She still has a bit of a problem with it but is working on it. This weekend was just fabulous and in fact she has made some purchases of lingerie and clothes for me. The lingerie is tough for her to buy because the sizes are obviously not hers and she is self conscious when buying them for me even though I am with her. Anyway, she has actually agreed to allow me to grow breasts! Not real large but B cup size which is what I desire. So now comes the research aspect of things. I have already found out how another member uses herbal techniques. Since I want all possible information before I make such a move, IF I make such a move, I now come to my knowledgeable sister friends. I do not want to take systemic hormones that will change my whole body. I do need to remain a male but would like to use something that will only work on the breast area (if there is such a product). I know there are an incredible amount of scams out there. I also know that in our untra conservative area in which I live, which is quite a small community, and I am well known, going to a physician in the northern half of my state would not be the best idea. Is there a SAFE method, that is very localized (breast area only), and that won't change other aspects of my system?

[Tristen Cox]

WELL! Things do have a way of happening. As you all know my wife is mostly supportive of my CDing. She still has a bit of a problem with it but is working on it. This weekend was just fabulous and in fact she has made some purchases of lingerie and clothes for me. The lingerie is tough for her to buy because the sizes are obviously not hers and she is self conscious when buying them for me even though I am with her. Anyway, she has actually agreed to allow me to grow breasts! Not real large but B cup size which is what I desire.

Good for you :) I do not have any info that would help you as for only changing that one area, but I'm sure someone here will have better insight than me.




*hugs*
Tristen

[Helana]

Sorry Ashleigh but if you want to grow breasts then that is only achievable through using estrogen - or a herbal estrogen mimic. You cannot localise the feminizing effects to the breasts alone. Even if you apply hormones to the breast area, they will get into your bloodstream and be circulated around your body.

However, the only two areas that you will see a difference is your breasts and buttocks. Having larger and rounder buttocks is not really a big deal - after all they are usually out of sight and can be written off as the effect of a bad diet!

You are unlikely to be satisfied with the herbal route as their effects are usually slight at best. Only a lucky few seem to get anywhere with them. If you really want B cup breasts then it is highly likely you will end up resorting to HRT tablets/patch. By all means proceed with the herbals for the meantime but don't get your expectations up.

I tried herbals myself and got no result. When I switched to estrogen tablets the effect was immediate and dramatic and I realised I had wasted a lot of time and money on the herbs. I remember reading an article a while back where the author claimed that herbs only have 10% of the potency of estrogen tablets.

As a rough guide, if you were taking HRT tablets then you would probably reach a full B in about 18 - 24 months assuming your body responds well. The older you are the less effective any treatment is and you may find it impossible to reach a full B cup.

Also I forgot - to have any chance of success you will need to take anti-androgen tablets to block the effects of your own testosterone which would be battling with the estrogen as to where to lay down the fat deposits.

[Ashleigh]

Helana,

Thank you. This is the kind of information I am looking for. Honest, straight foreward, and informative. The age factor is something I never thought of. I am 48 now and it is sounding like it would probably be a waste of money and could cause some complications. By the time anything would be getting a good start I would be 50 - more age. Ah such is life.

[DonnaT]

Hormones - http://www.transgendercare.com/medical/resources/tmf_program/tmf_program_regimens.asp
http://www.transgendercare.com/medical/resources/tmf_program/tmf_program_5.asp

Feminizing hormone therapy consists of administration of a highly estrogenic component and anti-androgens. Therapy usually begins with oral estradiol (17-Beta Estradiol often branded as Estrace tablets), which is the most potent estrogen available. While the reader will naturally focus on the estrogenic component, the other important factor considered in drug therapy is its administration, or more precisely, the route of administration. The path by which the hormone is introduced into one's system, such as, taken orally, injected into muscle, or transferred through the skin in the form of a medication skin patch affect the process.

The second category of medication, equally important to the traditional hormonal preparations that produce a direct estrogenic effect, is anti-androgens. These compounds aid in the overall feminizing effect by lessening or reversing the previous masculinizing effects produced by the presence of testosterone and DHT. With the aid of anti-androgens, the available estrogens are also able to produce more desirable effects while using less medication, allowing the male form to more readily morph into a female form.

But all anti-androgens are far from a panacea. One should realize that the bulk of these preparations used in transgender medicine are comprised of drugs that produce an anti-androgenic effect incidental to their designed purpose. The anti-androgens that some transgender patients are taking, are being taken by many others for a variety of very different medical conditions that include anti-hypertensive treatment (reducing high blood pressure), treating prostactic cancer, prostatic enlargement, and fungal conditions, amongst others. And as common sense would dictate, these drugs with their wide scope of uses may also produce a wide variety of potentially serious side effects. For example, a particular drug when used in treating cancer may work within acceptable limits of overall risk, even though it produces a certain stain on the liver. But when the same drug is used to add a mild anti-androgenic (de-masculinizing) effect to an otherwise healthy individual, are the mild feminizing effects of this mediation worth the potentially serious health risks associated with its use? This is the question the transgender patient should consider, and naturally, the physician entrusted with the care of that individual is also considering.

But anti-androgens' risk-to-benefit ratio is not bleak for all potential medications. Certain anti-androgens, when used reasonably, will greatly increase the feminization process with minimal risk. Two such medications, spironolactone and finasteride, are relatively benign and produce desirable effects when given within normally acceptable dosing limits.

A third category is the progestin. These drugs are derivative of the normally occuring substance progesterone found in both males and females. Amongst treating physicians, there is uncertainty as to whether progestin products have any positive effect for the transgender individual.

The most common preparation seen in this category is medroxyprogesterone acetate, often branded as Provera. The wisdom of adding a progestin can be linked to mimicking the female hormonal cycle. Additionally, naturally occurring progesterone aids in breast development in genetic females. A decreased incidence of cervical cancer is also noted when a progestin is added into the estrogen replacement regimen. But transgender women do not have a cervix, and the role of progestins in breast development is debated.

Progestins are also known to produce mildly androgenic (masculinizing) effects and can compete with the actions of estrogens, reducing their effect. Progestins also may produce negative reactions in the form of weight gain, edema and phlebitis, but without notable feminizing effects. Some may also experience mild depression and mood swings.

With these counterposing factors considered, progestins may be introduced in the regimen in a minimal way, or possibly altogether excluded.

Breasts

For the transgendered woman, breast development will vary greatly, as it does with the genetic female population. However, breast development will typically be less than what is experienced in the genetic female population.

With the transgendered woman, breast tissue growth is basically promoted by estrogens and anti-androgens. Under most circumstances, breast development exceeding a B cup is rare. Development will take at least 2 years to reach maximum size.

Changes in the nipple will likely be somewhat less than in the genetic female. The areola (the small ring of color around the nipple in the center portion of the breast) will change in appearance and size in relationship to the breast.

Soon after beginning hormone therapy (about 2 to 3 months), there will be a nodule-like formation behind the nipple and a feeling of tenderness or sensitivity in the area. This early stage of development is caused by an increase in the ductal system behind the nipple is part of the transition process and will usually normalize in a matter of months.

[sherri]

Helana and DonnaT

I have no intention of growing real breasts, but I must thank you two not only for your posts in this thread, but for the intelligence, compassion and good judgement with which you routinely respond to issues of legitimate import. You personify the true value of this forum.

xoxo

[ChristineRenee]

Helana,

Thank you. This is the kind of information I am looking for. Honest, straight foreward, and informative. The age factor is something I never thought of. I am 48 now and it is sounding like it would probably be a waste of money and could cause some complications. By the time anything would be getting a good start I would be 50 - more age. Ah such is life.Helana & Donna have pretty much given you the knowledge in this area that you will need so I am going to comment more on the age issue. I am 53. I did herbals for a couple of years with virtually no results. For me, and I can't speak for others, it was both a waste of time and money. I'm doing HRT now. I started almost a year ago. I'm on premarin (estrogen) and the anti-androgen spironolactone. I recently have been approved to add the Estraderm patch. I have achieved some significant results particularly breast wise. I am almost a full size A cup now. The side effects have been pretty minor. Helana is right that you are not going to be able to specifically target the breast area without affecting other areas like the rear end. But you are younger than I am even, and if it is really important for you, then girl you should go for it. Otherwise, be content to dress and wear forms in your bras. It is really a personal choice here, but I don't think that the age factor here should be a major factor in keeping you from doing it.

Just my thoughts on it hon.:)


Love,
Christine

[Helana]

I agree with Christine, don't be disheartened just be realistic. Herbal treatments are not going to do anything for you BUT estrogen and anti-androgen pills WILL give you breast development and I think a full A cup is readily achievable for you.

If you really want them then grow them, believe me, A cup breasts are 100 times better than no breasts at all. I grew my breasts three years ago. I came off hormones because I had already reached a size beyond which would make it near impossible for me to continue in a male role.

I have never regreted my decision to grow breasts. I look and feel female 24/7, and it has added much to my love life. My girlfriend cannot keep her hands off them! Also I can go bra-less anytime :p . Those new sticky breast enhancers are great, with them I have a full B cup and can slip into strappy cocktail dresses and summer dresses and look and feel fantastic. It is liberating not to have to rely on those expensive silicon breast forms which I personally never thought were that realistic. Now I know I was right. :cool:

This is a matter of personal choice - but remember you cannot remove breasts except by surgery. So you have to be very sure that you want these as they are for life. Growing breasts will change your CD life for the better but other things are closed off - such as going topless at the beach or swimming pool - you don't have the option of wearing a bikini top in public, so you will always have to wear a (thick) top even in the warmest weather.

[ChristineRenee]

I too agree with Helana agreeing with me that I agree...oh...you know!

Anyway...an A cup IS definitely better than nothing...trust me. I started out in the negative (concave chest), which is another reason why I believe my breast development has taken longer to take off. I fully expect to be on HRT anywhere from 1-2 more years depending on results. I'm not there yet, but am getting close to the point of not being able to take my shirt off in public. I wear bras, mostly sport bras, every day now. For me, it's what I wanna be. I made the decision, again, personal choice, that I wanted this for me...Christine. If you are ambivalent about this, you probably should steer clear of it. This transcends the average CD lifestyle of just wanting to wear the clothes. You have to have some sort of deeper conviction that you were supposed to have been born female or feel as if you are female inside to a strong degree. If you feel manly and just want to feel femme when dressed...this is not for you. I can't emphasize that too strongly. The permanent results, occasional side effects, and potential risks are reason enough to back away from it unless this is truly the path you want to go down.

Just felt like I had to add these comments to this thread.

Love,
Christine

[Ashleigh]

Donna, Helana, and Christine, et al,

Thank you again - copiously. One comment that was made was that breast enhancers could be used. That will probably work. I am, what my wife describes as an A cup now. As I mentioned before in other posts, I used to lift weights quite a bit in my earlier years (I pretty much worked only on the top half of the body) and have not done so for several years. We all know what happens when that kind of bulk changes when lifting stops. I think what has happened is that the pecs which were developed then have "flabbed out" (I don't know how else to describe it) and when I stand I look like, and please pardon the analogy, what a 15 or 16 year old girl would look like in the breast area. (Sitting in a police car and now at a desk all day doing accounting) has not done the best things for my gut. I am slimming down and will be where I want to be weight wise and tummy wise by May or June.

I very much appreciate the fine comments and articles from all of you. I value this more than you know. I think for now, with my, as my wife describes it, A cups, enhancers may be the way to go. For now. I think for me, the risks are just too high the other way.

This is why this forum is so great. It is like minded people like you who care about each other and their welfare enough to give of themselves, their talents, time, and experience to help others.

I love and thank each of you, not just on this post, but all those on this forum who have a desire, a genuine desire, to help others better their lives. I only hope I can add to it.

Thanks again!

Luvs to you all. ;)

[Paula A]

[QUOTE=Helana]

If you really want them then grow them, believe me, A cup breasts are 100 times better than no breasts at all. I grew my breasts three years ago. I came off hormones because I had already reached a size beyond which would make it near impossible for me to continue in a male role.
QUOTE]

OK I have a question, errr a couple.

You only have to be on HRT for the duration of time that you want to grow your breasts?

When you reach your desired size you stop taking the HRT threapy?

Do you stop cold turky or do you have to be weaned off them?

Does HRT effect your sex drive/desire and ability for erection and climax during the treatment?

and they do not reduce in size after HRT right?

One last thought, If you were an overweight male that flabbed out in the breast area or a CD/TG with new breasts whats the difference at the beach? You always see big men with boobs on the beach :eek: so what would the difference be?

[Danielle1960]

Although I agree with most of the posts here, I would like to add that doing some research and trying herbal methods might be of benefit to you. They don't work on all but if you are one of the lucky ones, you will be able to accomplish your goal. I've had good luck in this area, even though I expected not to.

I'm one year into herbal supplimentation and have gone from a no cup size to a large B and I'm going to see how big I get in two years total. If at that time I'm not happy I'll go to the doc and get prescriptions, but inidications are that I won't have to.

Good luck

[Helana]

Ashleigh

Glad to be of service, of course we are all loving and supportive, we are crossdressers after all. :)

If you already have plenty of flesh there then I would absolutely agree that enhancers are your best option. The ones I use are called Miracle Bra and are pretty cheap at just $15 but they work wonderfully.

One thing I read in your post was that you are seeking to lose weight - just remember that your breasts will decrease in size too! One of the disappointing side effects of getting a sexy body :( So if you lose a lot of weight and become skinny then you may no longer have those A cups.

Danielle says she had success with herbals - I suggest you ask her for her regime and see if it works for you - it appears to be a hit or miss affair and probably depends upon genetics if you respond to certain herbs.

[Helana]

OK I have a question, errr a couple.

You only have to be on HRT for the duration of time that you want to grow your breasts?

When you reach your desired size you stop taking the HRT threapy?

Do you stop cold turky or do you have to be weaned off them?

Does HRT effect your sex drive/desire and ability for erection and climax during the treatment?

and they do not reduce in size after HRT right?

One last thought, If you were an overweight male that flabbed out in the breast area or a CD/TG with new breasts whats the difference at the beach? You always see big men with boobs on the beach :eek: so what would the difference be?

Hi Paula

Yes you can go on to HRT until you reach your desired transformation and then come off them - after coming off them your body will begin to respond to your own testosterone and will slowly begin to reverse some of the changes. For example the HRT treatment will result in your body growing fat cells in your breasts and fat will be transferred to fill these up. Once you come off HRT, testosterone will begin telling your body that fat should be stored on your tummy so slowly the breasts will lose mass. However the fat cells are still there - its just that the body is distributing the fat to other areas. The breasts will not disappear though, just be a bit smaller. If you go back onto HRT then the body will again choose to divert fat to the breast area and the fat cells will swell up again. Fat cells are really just big balloons which change in size.

Ideally you should spend a couple of weeks decreasing your HRT intake so that there is a gentle decrease in levels. Sudden stops in hormone intake are not recommended. Your testosterone will naturally take time to build up again.

HRT does affect your sex drive. After 3 weeks you will struggle to maintain an erection, after about 6 weeks an erection is nearly impossible. You will stop producing sperm/fluids so even if you can achieve orgasm, you will have no ejaculate. Depending upon how long you were on HRT, you sex drive after your HRT treatment may not return to 100%. After 9 months myself, my ejaculate is only about 2/3 previously. I still get the same intensity though I had to wait several months before that came back to full strength. Be warned that sustained exposure over say a 12 month period will likely make you sterile. For that reason I broke up my HRT treatment into packages over a two year period.

However, remember that HRT will make your skin more sensitive and your breasts tender. So although your male sex drive disappears, your female sex drive increases meaning you become more responsive to foreplay and you feel more sexy overall as you are much more aware of your body. Sexual arousal is a mental thing, if you like what is happening to your body and your new responsiveness then you will be on a constant high all day long!

The difference between "male boobs" and my breasts are that mine are round and spherical with enlarged areolas, and are firm and pronounced and not flabby. It is obvious they are female breasts because of their shape and contours.

Hope that helps :)

[Vallari]

This is a great thread! I have been considering the hormone route the last week or so now. Now I know the younger you are the better. I'm only 18 now and this is probobly a good time to start development wise, but obviously there's countless other factors to consider as well - which I am. One thing I was curious about, how old is too old as far as hormone treatment and effectiveness is concerned?

[Ashleigh]

I guess I have a small correction to make. My wife read my posts on this thread (she won't post yet, but I will continue to work on her) and when she came to the one that I said she said I had A cups she turned to me and said, "I didn't say that. I said you are a B cup". I still had reservations though.

Well today, while we were in a neighboring city she purchased for me 2 bras. One a very ornate 40C push up with pockets for enhancers and a 40B push up. To my surprise I actually fill the B bra! Also, she bought me 2 beautiful rings.

Anyway, the B feels and looks great.

Luvs to all.

[Helana]

This is a great thread! I have been considering the hormone route the last week or so now. Now I know the younger you are the better. I'm only 18 now and this is probobly a good time to start development wise, but obviously there's countless other factors to consider as well - which I am. One thing I was curious about, how old is too old as far as hormone treatment and effectiveness is concerned?

Vallari

At 18 there is no need to rush into things. At that age you should respond very well to hormones, but there is no harm putting off a decision for a few months until you access more information about this - there are hundreds of sites on the internet where you can read up on this. Once you have done some extensive research and are still determined to proceed then by all means go ahead, its your life and body afterall.

From what I have read hormone treatment up to age 30 will give good results. Between 30-40 decent results can be expected, over 40 poor results. By this is very general, individual results vary wildly. Even if you start at age 18 you may never develop large breasts - its down to your genetics. However there are many effects hormones have on you - from supple, sensitive skin, reduced hair cover etc. Even your head hair should change in nature becoming thinner and silkier and the hairline will move forward so that less temple shows.

When I started at age 30 I had a little hair recession on my side temples, within a couple of months I saw that the hair was regrowing in those areas plus new hairs were growing further down where my female hairline would be. Another benefit : female hormones = cure for male baldness. :D

One last thing - dont forget about sterility. You may not have any desire for children now, but that could change later - even if you are gay or not. Keep it in mind.

[Helana]

I guess I have a small correction to make. My wife read my posts on this thread (she won't post yet, but I will continue to work on her) and when she came to the one that I said she said I had A cups she turned to me and said, "I didn't say that. I said you are a B cup". I still had reservations though.

Well today, while we were in a neighboring city she purchased for me 2 bras. One a very ornate 40C push up with pockets for enhancers and a 40B push up. To my surprise I actually fill the B bra! Also, she bought me 2 beautiful rings.

Anyway, the B feels and looks great.

Luvs to all.

Sucks Ashleigh, I should be coming to you for advice, B cups! and you did not even know it! And to think of all the effort I put in to get mine and you just get yours naturally. Life is not fair!!!!!! :D

[Tristen Cox]

One thing I was curious about, how old is too old as far as hormone treatment and effectiveness is concerned?
The longer masculinity takes hold of your body the more therapy may be required. However I wouldn't worry about it right now you're still young enough to take your time with this choice and get more information.




Love
Tristen

[ChristineRenee]

The longer masculinity takes hold of your body the more therapy may be required. However I wouldn't worry about it right now you're still young enough to take your time with this choice and get more information.




Love
TristenOMG!!! Tris...say it isn't so...SAY IT ISN'T SO!!!:eek: Jebus...I'm gonna be on HRT so long my boobs will be reaching my navel!!!!!!:o

[Tracie Lynn]

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, all so much for this wealth of information on HRT I to have been considering it and have talk to a couple of you about it all ready and have decided to give the Doc. a call and get the ball rolling so stay here with me girls because I am sure that I am going to have a lot more questions as time goes on.

[ChristineRenee]

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, all so much for this wealth of information on HRT I to have been considering it and have talk to a couple of you about it all ready and have decided to give the Doc. a call and get the ball rolling so stay here with me girls because I am sure that I am going to have a lot more questions as time goes on.Tracie...feel free to PM me anytime with questions re: HRT. I'll do my best to answer them.;) :)


Love,
Christine

[Ashleigh]

Sucks Ashleigh, I should be coming to you for advice, B cups! and you did not even know it! And to think of all the effort I put in to get mine and you just get yours naturally. Life is not fair!!!!!! :D

You probably did yours the easy way. I spent a lot of years power lifting in high school and college only to let it go when I got married and went on to my vocations.

I mentioned the B to my wife again this morning saying how surprised I was and she said not to be too discouraged when I get back to my ideal weight. Hmmmm. Should I??? I guess so. She said when she looses weight the first place it comes off is in that area. Neither one of us is real real heavy, but we could stand to shed a few pounds and a couple sizes. At least yours will remain, mine may or may not stay a B.

[Ashleigh]

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, all so much for this wealth of information on HRT I to have been considering it and have talk to a couple of you about it all ready and have decided to give the Doc. a call and get the ball rolling so stay here with me girls because I am sure that I am going to have a lot more questions as time goes on.


Aren't they all just fabulous Tracie? :)

[Paula A]

Ashleigh, THANK YOU FOR STARTING THIS THREAD,
I have always had Boob envy and thought that they would be great to have something to play with and help fill the void ( I also have a concave chest, pretty severely too) But on the other hand they would/could get in the way at other times, like when playing soccer, coaching etc, especially since I'm only 5'-6" and 140 lbs, they would stand right out there.

Helana:
Thank you for the insite and your directness, that is exactly the information I was looking for. I don't know if I could or my wife could handle not being able to stand up for the performance. The other issues for me at least, Im already fixed so furtillity is not important and the quanity well it still makes a mess, it would just decrease the size of the wet spot, which wouldn't be all that bad as long as the intensity is still there. but everyone is different. Also do you think that the novelty wears off after awhile. I feel that having real breasts would be fun, but.... for how long, and what are the other ramifications.

This brings up this next question: :confused:

Has anyone after HRT, I mean a few years later, regret going on HRT after the "fun-ness" wears off or does it. does the having breasts become a burden after a bit of time and get in the way of doing other stuff/living you other life?

I guess for now I'll have to pretend but in another year I'll be 40. OMG - 40 :eek: and I guess time won't stop for just me.

[Helana]

Ashleigh - lose the weight! - a sexier, healthier body is worth losing an inch off the breasts - especially since you do have options to grow them again later. Besides you will also be able to buy into a better range of clothes, the thinner you are.

[Ashleigh]

Ashleigh - lose the weight! - a sexier, healthier body is worth losing an inch off the breasts - especially since you do have options to grow them again later. Besides you will also be able to buy into a better range of clothes, the thinner you are.

You are actually quite correct not to mention the health benefits.

Hugggggggggggggggs to ya you wonderful person.

[Helana]

Helana:
Thank you for the insite and your directness, that is exactly the information I was looking for. I don't know if I could or my wife could handle not being able to stand up for the performance. The other issues for me at least, Im already fixed so furtillity is not important and the quanity well it still makes a mess, it would just decrease the size of the wet spot, which wouldn't be all that bad as long as the intensity is still there. but everyone is different. Also do you think that the novelty wears off after awhile. I feel that having real breasts would be fun, but.... for how long, and what are the other ramifications.

This brings up this next question: :confused:

Has anyone after HRT, I mean a few years later, regret going on HRT after the "fun-ness" wears off or does it. does the having breasts become a burden after a bit of time and get in the way of doing other stuff/living you other life?

I guess for now I'll have to pretend but in another year I'll be 40. OMG - 40 :eek: and I guess time won't stop for just me.

Paula - yes losing your erection will cause issues with your SO, although I suspect that using viagra might solve this problem but never actually tried that myself. With my girlfriend we discussed this a lot and got around the issue much easier than I imagined - basically there was a lot more foreplay involved, more fingers and tongues ;) - I guess you could describe it as going from hetrosexual lovemaking to lesbian lovemaking. In many ways it is a good thing to take away the focus on the penis and explore other ways to make love - your wife will appreciate it, but eventually she would want penetrative sex again. The longest I was on hormones continously was 3 months so it was not a big problem for us.

Breasts - yes the novelty wears off, but the fun continues. You are always aware of them rubbing against your clothes, bouncing as you move about and they also become a major source of attention for your SO! Basically having breasts makes you more aware of your body. When I wake up in the morning and look in the mirror, my eyes always get drawn down to my breasts and a big smile appears on my face and I cup them in my hands. The happiness does not fade.

The ramifications are that if you grow them large enough - you really cannot hide them, eventually everybody will notice them. The strange thing is, like CDing in general, people really don't care. They may see, wonder, gossip but if you continue being just you, then life carries on as usual. I am just a guy with boobs - so what? Nobody has ever asked me about my breasts and I have never had a bad reaction from anyone. I am still one of the lads.

When I started with HRT I was worried about the ramifications too, but now I am happy and proud to have breasts and it has not hindered me at all except that I do not go topless in public anymore - but then I am a decent girl and would not want all the men drooling over me! :p