passing

[Victoria Anne]

as I was putting on my make up this morning I had to pause and ask myself this question. How can we really pass ? If you think about it,look at the physical differences. Our faces are to square,that is to say our jaws,we have an pronounced adams apple,our shoulders to broad,our arms are to short,our hands to big our torso's to long and hips are to narrow our legs are to short and feet to big.So how can we really pass ? the awnser as I see it this,we can't, we can only try our best to be pretty and enjoy our self and have fun being the woman we are inside.Just a thought,I would like to hear some of your thoughts ladies.:love: Victoria Anne

[marie354]

You just have to let the woman inside out to be free.
It's not so much for passing as being comfortable with yourself. IMO.
:hugs:

[Karren H]

Passing's 90% attitude and 10% looks... If you look and act like you belong where ever you are, then those around you will accept or at least won't question your presentation...... And smile a lot!!!!

Love Karren

[Tamera]

Many of the imperfections you brought up as a M to F the actual GG's have.
such as;

having big hands, being tall, not having a butt, not having hips, having a bigger nose than they want, too skinny, too fat, etc.

You learn not to be so negative on what you can't do but be positive in what you can do.
Tamera

[Michelle Hart]

Passing's 90% attitude and 10% looks... If you look and act like you belong where ever you are, then those around you will accept or at least won't question your presentation...... And smile a lot!!!!

Love Karren

Well said.



With that in mind a whole lot has to do with your presentation and how well you blend in. Generally women do not wear 5 inch heels and leather miniskirts to walmart so you shouldnt either.

if you carry yourself well and can mask your male attributes you will do fine. I'm tall and allways look at how tall women dress and carry themselves for guidance. Learn to mimic female behavior and as Karen said "look like you belong".

Attitude will cover any small mistakes and give you the confidence to get what you want and were you want.

[Marla S]

Skip passing as the goal.
Be honest to yourself and others, and try to look your best.
That holds for any situation and viewing distance.
Passing becomes harder the closer you are to people and the more you interact with them.
When people get the impression to be cheated, they become upset about dressing more easy.

[Paulacder]

I think "Passing" to a large degree is a Psycological thing, If you came in contact with one or more individuals and nothing was said, no sneers, or odd looks given, you come away and say to yourself, Wow, they didn't notice that I was a guy, But did they? Maby they did notice you were a guy and just didn't care how you dressed, or were just too polite to say anything fearing they might offend you by asking, why do you dress like that.:2c:

[Teresa Amina]

are everywhere. There was a six foot something or other woman in the store today, somewhat masculine but gg, not at all unusual. "Normal" is a range of attributes, not an Ideal appearance.

[PaulaJaneThomas]

How can we really pass ?

Passing is in the eye of the beholder. We don't pass, people pass us. Or maybe they just don't care ;)

[Rebecca_Annette]

Skip passing as the goal.
Be honest to yourself and others, and try to look your best.

I wholeheartedly agree.

I am not a woman. I am a man who feels quite aggrieved that women get all the best clothes :). I LOVE wearing skirts and tops, hose, silky undies, and boots or ankle strap shoes. If society allowed it I would wear such clothes all of the time. Unfortunately "society" is somewhat narrow & bigoted.

I am NOT abnormal, I'm just ME.

Peace
Rebecca

[Valerie Nicole]

I agree with what most people are saying, bu I also think that a lot of people will see what they want to or expect to see. You see a person and this person is wearing a skirt or a dress and has long feminine hair and what appears to be a mostly feminine body and they're wearing makeup...your mind generally fills in the blanks unless you have a very good reason to disbelieve what you're seeing.

[PaulaJaneThomas]

I'm just ME.

Hey, you can't be me. I'm me!

[Richelle]

I agree with what all the other ladies have already said. I honestly believe that most of the people do not give us a second look, so long as we act, dress and behave as if we are true GG.

For those that do take a second look, their reaction tells us more about them then us. If they just go on their way, then IMHO they are the mature ones. If they stare, follow or make an issue that they are immature people.

Now, in all my times out shopping here in Southern California, it as been my experience that the vast majority of the ones that notice are mature and go on their way. I know that many different sales clerks at the cosmetic counters have noticed that I am a CD, but continue to have polite conversations.

So I really agree with what Marla said, “be honest and try to look your best”

Richelle

[Karren H]

And another thing, kind of a theory ..... but I think since I wear a dress or a skirt most of the time when out enfemme, no one really expects anyone other than a female to be wearing that ...... so in their mind there is no question as long as i dont slip up and spit on the ground or do something manly... hehe

Love Karren

[windycissy]

I agree with what all the other ladies have already said. I honestly believe that most of the people do not give us a second look, so long as we act, dress and behave as if we are true GG....

Now, in all my times out shopping here in Southern California, it as been my experience that the vast majority of the ones that notice are mature and go on their way.... Richelle

The proof is in the pudding: I once had the pleasure of accompanying Richelle on one of her shopping excursions, and take it from me: she is drop-dead passable.

Of course you can't fool all of the people all of the time, that would be like going four for four in the All Star Game. So stick to safe places and don't put yourself in situations where you'll be in trouble if you do get read.

Dressing up and going out as a woman is one of the highlights of my life, but not everyone can get away with it. I'm lucky in that I'm slim and not too tall, so I have a little more to work with, but there are a lot of tall, zaftig women out there, and if you dress and act like they do, you have a shot at passing too.

[Jesse69]

There are many passable crossdressers who are tall, short, fat, or skinny or in between these. And have you ever looked at the bodies of many women? Some don't even have a figure and have flab in the middle, some as if they had no hips, and some have mustaches!

Well, there definitely are lots of crossdressers that don't pass, mainly because of their masculine face, big upper body / wide torso / skinny hips, or maybe because being fat doesn't make them look good (because many women are skinny).

What does zaftig mean?

[Kali]

Zaftig:

From Yiddish, meaning pleasingly plump, well rounded, slightly fat, perhaps buxom.

[windycissy]

What does zaftig mean?

(Yiddish) Pleasingly plump, from German "saftig" meaning "juicy".

[amanda barber]

How can we really pass ? If you think about it,look at the physical differences. Our faces are to square,that is to say our jaws,we have an pronounced adams apple,our shoulders to broad,our arms are to short,our hands to big our torso's to long and hips are to narrow our legs are to short and feet to big.So how can we really pass ?

Have you looked, and I mean really looked, at all the women out there? Not necessarily just the few you find attractive or the few you try to emulate but every one you encounter, young and old, on a given day. You'll see narrow hip, big torsos, even broad shoulders and short arms.

[marie354]

I was talking to a friend of mine that manages a grocery store a while back and the subject came up about crossdressers... (He knows about me.) He told me that most of the CD's he's met are nicer than a lot of the women.
Wasn't that nice. It sure made me feel good.
BTW He has never seen me dressed. Maybe one day.

[Sally24]

It doesn't have to be about Passing. It is for me on a normal day, but that's me and my life. If you can look good and feel comfortable, than that is what you should do. Find that place that makes you happy and do your best with it. We are all different, and that is why this forum is such an interesting place.

Enjoy yourself!

Sally

[trannie T]

Passing for me is not very likely, but when I go out I smile a lot and present a positive attitude. While others do not accept me as a real woman they accept me as a person.

[Rachel Morley]

OK, if the definition of "passing" is apparently no one giving any indication that they have realized that I am not a woman, then I pass alot.

However, let's get real, just because I have seemingly never noticed anyone give me a second look or a knowing smile does not mean I passed. It's rather like when people see a disabled person in a wheelchair they give them eye contact and they "ignore" the wheelchair. Does it mean that they didn't notice the wheelchair? Hell no, of course not. It's just they were too polite and too well mannered to say anything. That (to me) is what is going on. Passing is subjective!

I say go out there and find out for yourself just how passable you are, you might surprise yourself! I'll get off my :sb: box now :D

Victoria Anne, this is meant to be an encouraging post about no matter what you think about yourself, others rarely think the same.

[susie evans]

i think karren is right on in what she said look and act like you belong and look like you belong and have the right attitude it goes a long way :heehee:

susie

[Jenna1561]

When I dress and go out, my objective is to present as a woman. I am 5'10" 270# - so I am a rather large woman. But that's why I shop at Lane Bryant, Fashion Bug, Avenue, Catherines and other stores that cater to plus size women.

As Karren said earlier it's 90% attitude and 10% looks. I was out most of today dressed enfemme and by myself in the Ashburn/Dulles, Virginia area. I went to church, then to the market, back to the hotel then out to several shops, then the mall, and finally to a movie (Pursuit of Happyness). If anyone noticed that I wasn't a woman, they were polite and certainly did not act like they saw a monster or anything.

At the Lane Bryant I had a nice chat with two of the associates. My voice is always my biggest giveaway, but they didn't even act like they recognized that I was not a woman. I tried on several outfits and they helped get different sizes and offered suggestions. I'm pretty sure that at least one of them knew that I wasn't a woman, but there's a slim chance (I can dream!) that she didn't recognize that little fact. Of course they love to make the sales and I spent about $400.00 there this week in 2 separate trips.

Walking through the mall, I did notice that one woman, with her husband and kids, was staring at me as we passed. Not at my face or shoulders or boobs, but at the lovely red ballet flats I was wearing. I have passed and walked alongside many teens and haven't had any bad reactions.

Most people are so caught up in their own world, they rarely give others a serious first look, nevermind a second look. Until we interact with others, attitude will carry the day.


Jenna

[noname]

I agree it's additude. I once had a gf that something like 6' 2" and wore a size 12 shoe. She had all the trouble that some of us do finding clothes and shoes.

[Kerrie Sifton]

Passing? This weekend I was in several stores and recreational centers, I paid very close attention to the women around me and observed that many of the gg's had little or no makeup. Few were dressed in skirts, however in one store there were three women clerks. One in her 50;s , quite plump, and dressed in a non descript fashion, in pants, the 2nd was in her 30's dressed in a blouse and cargo pants, slim cute but she did not go out of her way to dress up. Finally the 3rd girl, very cute blond hair style, in a shag, cream turtle neck, gold necklace, black kneelength skirt,very flirty, and brown boots with a 3" solid heel, cowboy style. Of all the women in the store she was the most remarkable. I neglected to ask her where she got her skirt, it was a lot of fun, and the boots were very cool. Thus if one of us were out ther dressed in a skirt, boots, lovely hair and makeup, there would only be a few girls to distract the others from looking at us...:hugs:

[Violetgray]

Hmm. Well, I guess it depends on how exactly you would define "Passing."

Would passing mean that people are oblivious or accepting?

I'm torn between which I'd prefer. Oblivious means I did a good job, accepting means I can just be me and not try so hard.. I know good examples of both..

I know T-girl who is absolutely passable, so it IS possible for some of us to pass. The most astonishing thing is that she is 6'1, and if you were to see her you would never even consider that she was transgendered, thats how beautiful her face is... she's just a taller girl with a small frame and slim hips. She has many friends, and the few who know are those she came out to..

I also at a sci-fi convention I met an adolescent boy, who is so soft and unintentionally feminine that he never got a second glance when he was curled up on another boy's lap in the lounge area. I actually had one person remark to me, "I don't approve of same sex unions generally but that couple over there.. the boy is so girly that it doesn't even set off my sense of 'wrong' " He was wearing silk pajamas and had his hair in a bun but thats it.. he wasnt in drag.. and most people never noticed he was even male, and when they found he wasn't a girl they were like, "eh, close enough.."

So its a tough choice for me.. I'd want people to choose to accept me, but I also want to be good enough that they don't have to make the choice.

Weird dilemma I guess..

[Amanda Shaft]

Hi all, I'd just like to say that your contributions to this thread have been fantastic! It's what makes this site what it is! Since tonight (its about 9.00am here as I write) is my first expedition into the outside world I'm going to take it all in and use it to pass. For me it will mean looking, acting and being accepted (taken for) a gg. I think you're right about the 90% being attitude, since if you look and feel comfortable then you are less to stand out and look wrong.
Regards (feeling brave this morning) Amanda x

[MsJanessa]

Skip passing as the goal.
Be honest to yourself and others, and try to look your best.
That holds for any situation and viewing distance.
Passing becomes harder the closer you are to people and the more you interact with them.
When people get the impression to be cheated, they become upset about dressing more easy.

ditto

[JoAnnDallas]

I have been going out now for over a year. Not once have I had someone say anything to me. Even when I went to HEF last year. No one in the Hotel said anything to us. Except for one guy in the bar and the GG bartender told him he was no longer welcomed in the bar. LOL I don't know if I pass or not. I only know that I have not had an bad experience so far while out en fem. I have gotten some "Morning Mams" and have had the door held for me and even one time while out with my sister and wife in drab got called "Ladies", twice in the same day. As long as I don't bother anyone else and they don't bother me, I'll call that passing. LOL

[Lisa Golightly]

Hey, you can't be me. I'm me!

I'm Spartacus!... etc, etc ;)

[Victoria Anne]

I just want to say thank you to all of you wonderful ladies for your responce. I will just hope for acceptance as I am planning an outing soon (in the next month or so).I will let you all know how it goes ,it will be my first real outting and I will be going to a couple of shops where I know I will face scrutiny garanteed in at least one of the shops.Again thank you all for the responces and your support. :hugs: to all

[RobertaFermina]

I try to realize and express personal beauty, and charm through feminine appearance and personality.

If someone sees me as a woman - that is a bonus!

If someone sees me as a man that they want to see and accept as a woman, that works too.

I don't believe I am typically seen as a man-in-a-dress, and would be sad and challenged to accept and respond to that kind of feedback....and I'd do my best.


:rose: Roberta :rose:

[Tina B.]

I belive, we as CD'ers pay more attention to what women are doing, wearing and how they are acting, than most people. People are much more interested in what they are doing, than what strangers they pass on the street, or in the mall are doing. Most guys don't pay that much attention to women out there unless they are real knock outs, or dressed in a way to draw attention, And then most people really don't want to be a part in some drama, so even if they do notice they are not going to say anything. For me the fear is in running into some one that knows me, or the SO, or knows my son, and knows we are related, the rest is not important.
Even here in small town America, I saw a couple strolling through the mall, they looked like they ahve been together for many years, she had on pants, he had on a plain looking house dress, since I was sitting down on a bench at the time I was able to watch them for a while as they walked the mall, NO ONE bothered them or even looked at them twice as far as I could tell, but you could read him from the other end of the mall.

So maybe the world is starting to grow up a little, at least I would like to think so.
Tina B.

[Kelsy]

I find all these posts very inspiring! I have ventured out in mostly dressed up drab and have shopped for girl things and have loved the experience. Now I am preparing myself to go out enfem at DLV and I'm very excited All the things you girls have said here are helping be find the courage to go out and enjoy myself. Passing can't be the main goal or I fear I'll be miserable, Self acceptance and presenting well is the route I'll take. With support from my SO and my big sister I think it's going to be a blast and an experience of a life time . I can't wait!!!!:hugs:


Thanks Jennifer:love:

[Joy Carter]

are everywhere. There was a six foot something or other woman in the store today, somewhat masculine but gg, not at all unusual. "Normal" is a range of attributes, not an Ideal appearance.

Hey there Missy. Don't think I'll be coming back anytime none to soon.:rolleyes:

[Colleentg]

[QUOTE=Karren Hutton;746329]Passing's 90% attitude and 10% looks... If you look and act like you belong where ever you are, then those around you will accept or at least won't question your presentation...... And smile a lot!!!!

Right on! If' you feel pretty confident, not just pretty, you can walk right with them. I can dress down all the way, though, people still consider me female! Must be the (natural) hair!

[Glenda58]

I work with women how have square jaws narrow hips big shoulders and they all female. When they don't wear makeup they good tough. So when you think you can't pass look at some of the women who don't take care of themselves and you can see how you could blend in and maybe not pass but get by as a lady.