Are transpeople limited in who they can date & is it a lie to live in stealth?

[pocoyo]

Sorry this isn't worded very well.. but if you saw my new video you will know that I'm "punch drunk" as Kerrianna put it, today! (At least that's the excuse I'm using for sounding thick... it is true though! :happy:)

Part 1) Does being trans limit who I can date?!

If I transition, I don't particularly want to advertise the fact that I used to be female. But how would this affect my dating?!

Obviously a lot of people think you have to be completely open about "where you came from"... but what about people that live in stealth?

And... what if you DID admit you were born female/male to just your partner, then you split up with your partner and they knew and told everyone, it could ruin your new life (if you'd moved away or whatever).

So does this mean that we are limited to dating other transpeople, people who understand?
Or perhaps other people within the LGBTG community....

Hmmm.

2) Is it a lie for a transperson to live in stealth?

I personally don't think so, because for instance if someone born male has KNOWN they are female all their life and finally matches her outsides to her insides... I just see that as a woman. But many "normal" people who don't understand about trans issues might be upset if they were dating a girl but a girl that was once a boy. If that makes sense.

I know in a similar thread I once started... someone said you don't have to tell "friends" but you do have to tell lovers. But that leads me back to my point in part 1... what if your partner knew but you split up from them and then they got evil and told everyone about your past.


So are we stuck to dating other transpeople/gay people?
Or are we "allowed" to date "normal" people?
Hmpf.

[Abraxas]

I think about this a lot. It goes back to that whole, straight guys don't want a boyfriend and gay guys don't want a girlfriend.
I suppose it depends on luck more than anything. There are some people in the world who would be totally accepting and maybe even fully into it (although I wouldn't necessarily want to date someone who just has a tranny fetish. That's not acceptance so much as it is... I don't know what, but it wouldn't make me feel good).
Of all the guys I've done anything with (apart from snogging, hehe), I don't think any of them really saw me as male. And I'll admit, it's hard to get over the anatomy. Even my ex, who was MTF, saw me as a girl, which really pissed me off because I saw her as a girl (which, admittedly, did my head in a bit). There wasn't mutual respect there.
So... I don't know. I sometimes think that I'll never be happy because if I want to get into a relationship, I'd have to drop my 'transness'-- at least a little. Probably, anyway, unless I got really lucky and found a guy who was accepting and stuff. And if I keep this up, I have a feeling I'll be alone forever. And I don't want to have to settle.
I suppose a lot of my problem lies in the fact that I don't plan on transitioning fully. *shrug*
*sigh* I just want to fall in love with a boy, and for him to fall in love with me, and we won't have to deal with mechanics or any of that rubbish.

As for the stealth thing... Again, since I don't plan on transitioning fully, I'd kind of have to tell people. And I have no problem with that. If they have a problem with me, then they're not worth dealing with. And I tell people anyway, so it wouldn't be a huge problem if someone blabbed, because it'd be a useless piece of gossip. Best way to avoid rumours is to admit to them so the person who started it doesn't have any ammunition.

[bi_weird]

Yeah what a confusing issue. I think that personally I'd feel like I had to tell friends who were closer to me, and any romantic interest before things got very serious. But I'm in a very spoiled place right now. See, we try to be liberal here, so people are really cool with queer things. It means that I've met a lot of straight people who cool with really odd ideas, in a "well I don't know what'd I'd do about it, but sure if I liked the person I'd give it a chance" sort of way. This environment keeps me really open about who I can be, because I know that there's a large portion of people where I currently live who are cool with everything.

[JeanneF]

I don't know, exactly. I have mixed feelings on it.

I don't think that it's really a lie to live in stealth. If you transition, and there is no evidence that you used to be female, then it's really no one's business what sex you started life as.

HOWEVER (and this is a big one...)

I do think that it's wrong not to disclose your past to a potential partner/spouse. Especially if her life plans involve having children. Think about it this way...if you were with a girl, and she was unaware of your past and wanted to have children with you, how are you going to explain why it's not going to happen without outright lying to her?

It's unfortunate, but I do think that being transgendered does affect our ability to date "normal" people to an extent. I don't think that we're limited to dating only other transpeople or those within the LGBT community, but a relationship with a non-LGBT person does need to be entered with some trepidation and with at least a reasonable amount of disclosure if it appears the relationship is going to get serious.

This may actually be an issue where it's a little bit easier for us MTFs...at least we have the "tranny chasers", who claim to be normal. ;)

[MJ]

wow i am dealing with this issue right now omg, for me her name is "Bo" she is a gg a wonderful person but should i ask her out, i think not.. but then again two chicks on a date hmmm not
and the "tranny chasers", who claim to be normal. i had a "guy" i met him very good looking my issue was this he said he is not gay, or bi just normal
guys like that can't be normal we talked i said what if we hit it off how would you feel when i got naked and i look like you ??? ,
OK a gg could work "i still issues with that" or a trans person , but not normal guys..

[kerrianna]

Oo, Pocs you're always asking tough questions. I can only say (because I'm in a different space) that if you get lucky enough to meet the right person in life (and I believe if you are/be yourself you will draw them to you), they will accept you and love you for who you are. There are lots of loving couples in this world who deal with things some of us imagine to be too horrible - mental illness, deformity, disease, etc...and yet they find each other and a way to love each other.

Bi is right - we do try to be liberal here - and what I find cool is that in doing so I get to know you people for who you are, I accept you and grow to love you, and I find I don't really care what gender you are or want to be, just how neat you are. Sure I'm coming from a place of understanding, but I think there are lots of people who aren't TG, maybe haven't even thought about it much, who are still liberal and alive and free enough to say cool, so that's you, well let's make it work because I want to be with you. The day to day might be a little bit of work, but all successful relationships are. A lot of work actually. :rolleyes:

As for stealth. Well, there are lots of people who keep their backgrounds to themselves for a long time for different reasons. I would, until I thought I really liked someone enough to take the risk. Because eventually you do have to reveal yourself, or you will never be comfortable, never truly happy. And that's when you find out how special that person is or isn't I guess.

my :2c:

[Kimberley]

Why would being TG affect who you can date? It may or may not limit your options a little but who you date and when is your choice. If you are mutually attracted, being TG isnt an issue until emotions are involved. Can or should you disclose? That is up to you as is when.

If a former partner were to out you so what? Once out you cant go back into the closet, at least not very easily. You know who you are, what you are, and where you are going. That is more than most people can claim. As to the person who outed you, think about how miserable their life must be if they have to resort to such tactics. Put yourself on the receiving end of that conversation and most people wouldnt want to know or care for that matter. So where does that leave the ex?

If we live in stealth isnt there a reason? To blend in? I have mixed feelings about this to begin with but I can understand it. I do think that transitioned or not we need one another for support and to go forward. We have some transitioned members here who still are active contributors and their perspectives are very insightful.

In short, date who you want. Dont limit yourself.

:hugs:
Kimberley

[bi_weird]

Honestly, this whole topic makes me think, and makes me question how much of myself I hide. I'm out as bi to everyone here at school, but none of my extended family. As TG, I'm only really out to a few friends, though a lot of people have seen me in mens clothing and heard me talk about gender issues, so I wonder how many have guessed some. But the reason why Ann Arbor is such a great place to be queer is that there have been others before me who didn't hide from anyone in their lives. I wonder if it's time for me to come out to my extended family, and start being more open about my gender issues, because safe places like this don't grow without people growing them. *laughs* I also have the advantage of knowing I'm leaving the state in six months, so anything bad is only bad temporarily.
Like, I'd never tell someone else he or she should come out, but I feel like if we want things to be safer, we need to take it upon ourselves to educate people, and the best way to do that is show people that someone they care for and respect is not straight and cisgendered. So maybe I'm in a good enough place right now to do some of that. We shall see.

[pocoyo]

Wow some really cool answers here. Thanks people :D

Bi... I think that's so lovely... you want to "use your powers to do good!" :D
That's really cool. :love:
Btw... it would be totally understandable if you didn't... but the fact that you are even considering it/want to is fantastic.
Must be cool to live somewhere very open & accepting like that. (Not that it's like, repressed and stuff here, but some people are nasty or old fashioned or just don't get things).
:hugs:

[Iniquity Blonde GG]

Ok , sorry if im butting in, i dont often make comments on ur forum, so i apologise if im out of order, BUT if your happy , why shouldnt you do what you want ?? isnt anybody ( no matter what your sexuality ) entitled to happeiness ?? theres to many people in the world pointing fingers @ "you should live like this, & you mustnt do this " !! but you live ur life for you , no-one else" :rolleyes: we all to often as not put into "BOXES" , and thats how we are expected to have lifes/relationships !!
wth if you find someone that makes you happy go for it :D lifes to short, believe me :hugs:

[pocoyo]

WB - you're not butting in!!
You're welcome to comment!

I like what you said too :D Very cool.

[Iniquity Blonde GG]

ty :happy:

[Holly]

Poc, as always a very thought provoking question. As for trans people limiting who they can date to trans persons, I would say no. The whole dating process is one that is designed to see if you have any interests in common with your date and to see if there is any "chemistry" between the two of you. If things do progress, the natural tendency is to being sharing more about yourselves to one another. From a purely pragmatic viewpoint, I don't know that I would want to pursue a serious relationship with someone who could not accept me for who (and what) I am. Of course this means that we, ourselves, must have come to terms with our transgenderness. Does this make any sense?

Now, is it a lie to live in stealth? Again, I would respond no. Although I would say that with anyone with whom we are seeking to have a deep, meaningful relationship (romantic or otherwise), it would be in our best interests to disclose as much about ourselves as we can. It is only from those who know us best (and fully) that we get the most accurate feedback as to how we are doing.

Okay... I'm done :happy: .

[Kieron Andrew]

Poc, as always a very thought provoking question. As for trans people limiting who they can date to trans persons, I would say no. The whole dating process is one that is designed to see if you have any interests in common with your date and to see if there is any "chemistry" between the two of you. If things do progress, the natural tendency is to being sharing more about yourselves to one another. From a purely pragmatic viewpoint, I don't know that I would want to pursue a serious relationship with someone who could not accept me for who (and what) I am. Of course this means that we, ourselves, must have come to terms with our transgenderness. Does this make any sense?

Now, is it a lie to live in stealth? Again, I would respond no. Although I would say that with anyone with whom we are seeking to have a deep, meaningful relationship (romantic or otherwise), it would be in our best interests to disclose as much about ourselves as we can. It is only from those who know us best (and fully) that we get the most accurate feedback as to how we are doing.

Okay... I'm done :happy: .
yay! holly came to visit.....insightful as always holly :):heehee:

[pocoyo]

Sorry I haven't replied to this thread very well!
Couple things I wanted to say..
MJ - Bo knows you as female? Well perhaps you could tell her you're into females and see how she responds? Then if she seems like she's cool with it, another time you could suggest the idea of you 2 going out together some time. Or build up a great, close friendship and see how things go from there. :happy:

LisaK -

HOWEVER (and this is a big one...)

I do think that it's wrong not to disclose your past to a potential partner/spouse. Especially if her life plans involve having children. Think about it this way...if you were with a girl, and she was unaware of your past and wanted to have children with you, how are you going to explain why it's not going to happen without outright lying to her?

I know, I know... it's something I think about a lot. :worried:
I always imagine mumbling something about not being able to have children, but not saying exactly why. And talking about adoption/other avenues.

But ... well... oh it's a really difficult one, this whole "keeping it completely private" business. I have mixed feelings on it also.
I really detest lying and hadn't ever lied about anything, until I started pretending to be GM online. I suppose that's not necessarily a lie though. But you know what I mean.


************
Coming out to partners (if I was fully transitioned):

What if something like this happened? :(
Some scenarios I fear:

Pocoyo has been seeing a girl for a while, they get on really well.

Pocoyo one day tells her “I used to be a girl, physically”.
GF is horrified. Slaps him. "I HATE YOU!" Never speaks to him again.
2 weeks later her brother finds him in a pub and shouts to everyone how this “boy” is actually a girl, or used to be but is now some sort of “hermaphroditic lesbian freak”, (which of course he isn't) who tried it on with his sister.
Whole pub looks on scornfully. Brother & friends drag pocoyo outside and beat him to a bloody pulp.

or

Pocoyo is dating another man, they get on really well.

One day when they are on the beach BF plucks up the courage to ask about pocoyo’s scars. Pocoyo gets shy and mumbley but thinks he should be honest & explains.
BF leaps up in horror and disgust. “You freak!….why would you think I’d be interested in a GIRL?”
Pocoyo – “I’m not a girl…”
BF – “Used to be a girl… was a girl… is a girl on the inside!”
Pocoyo – “No… it’s not like that…please listen…” *puts his hand on BF’s arm*
BF – “Oh f*ck off you freak… don’t touch me…get off” *walks off, leaving Pocoyo feeling terrible*

or

Pocoyo has a bunch of casual flings and even though no-one notices he’s not a “normal” man he feels so wracked with guilt (incase they wouldn't understand and would think he was a girl and so, not like being with him if they knew) and fear (of being "found out"), that he doesn’t enjoy it and is a miserable b*stard.

Surely those 3 scenarios are more realistic than:

Pocoyo has been seeing someone for a while.

As a normally very honest person he decides one day that perhaps he should tell them his past.
Pocoyo and partner sit down for a talk…. The partner smiles reassuringly and Pocoyo explains calmly and sensibly, managing to explain it properly, noting every important point.
The partner smiles.
Pocoyo – (Crapping self) “Well?”
Partner – “That doesn’t make any difference to me…. I love YOU… what you are, who you are now. I KNOW you are a man. There is no doubt in my mind of that.
So you were born with a slight difference to other men, lots of people are… you’ve corrected that now. You know, you didn’t even need to tell me, because you are a man and that’s that. I’m glad that you trust me enough to tell me though." *smiles*.


Or

Pocoyo has a bunch of fun casual flings and no-one notices he’s not a “normal” man… he doesn’t feel bad about it in the slightest and just has a great time being a lad!

[pocoyo]

Oops sorry, I was so busy writing that long post above that I didn't realise you'd posted Holly!

I really like what you say. It makes a lot of sense.

Is it ok to have casual relationships in stealth then?
I personally think/hope so!

[Iniquity Blonde GG]

u have to enjoy urself :D lifes for living :D

[kerrianna]

jeez wicked, you got me craving choccies!

Uh Pocs I don't actually think your last 2 secenarios are more unrealistic than the first ones. As a matter of fact they might be MORE realistic. The first scenarios are your fears speaking. The last ones your hopes. There's no reason to think your fears will come true more than your hopes. You have an upbeat, bright and clever mind and you seem to be very cautious and intuitive so I can't see how you'd let yourself get into a bad situation. Like you said, you don't like misleading people, so I can't imagine you doing it for so long. I can see how you might not want to bring something up until you thought you liked a person enough to risk it, but I think you would take that risk a lot sooner than sucking someone in.

If you are honestly worried about it then I suggest you do keep it up front as early as possible. That doesn't mean on a first date or something, just until you get thinking I like this person, they seem to like me, I don't want to hurt them so now I need to tell them. If they are the person (or A person, I don't believe there's just ONE person for us out there) for you, then they will find a way with you to make it work. There are a number of GGs and their mates on this forum who have had to do just that, sometimes well into a long term relationship. Not all have succeeded but some do, because their love and commitment to each other outweighs everything else. And that's a worse case scenario, after many years of being together. In your case you can approach it knowing you won't hide it for that long if it's a serious relationship forming. If they tell you to FO then they weren't there for you anyway and you're better off without them.

As for casual encounters, well, most people that are into them manage to live either with or without the guilt. Best case is two people hooking up for mutual guilt-free self-gratifying enjoyment, worse case one person decides it's more than that. If you can live that lifestyle anyway then you should know how to live it guilt free and not worry about hurting people who might fall madly in love with you by accident. Which will likely happen with someone as sparkling as you Pocs. :hugs:

[Kieron Andrew]

jeez wicked, you got me craving choccies!
i say we pinch em from her and share em between us!

[pocoyo]

jeez wicked, you got me craving choccies!
Haha! I was just thinking that exact thing!

awww Kerrianna... that's so nice.
I didn't think about that. I was assuming that if they were the type of person to have a casual fling that they wouldn't care about me... but yeah, you're right lots of people do have trouble where they get too attached... aargh.
Can't be doing with that type of thing. Relationships... bleh.
(I'm not sure if I hate them so much because I'm just so "over" them, or because I've turned into a heartless sod, or because I'm so scared of getting hurt, or because I'm so scared of hurting someone else, or because of my TGness... quite possibly a combination of all of those things, the TG thing definitely.... but that's a subject for another thread :p)

Wow, what you say is very cool. But I have to admit... to be absolutely honest..... if I was definitely transitioning.... if I had a choice/was allowed.... I think I'd just keep it a total secret and live as a "normal man"! :worried:
Like... I wouldn't WANT to tell anyone, and would just want to get on with my life as a boy. But obviously, in reality, that might not be ethical/possible.


Meh... maybe it could be fun to be "scene"....

[kerrianna]

Haha! I was just thinking that exact thing!
Yeah, someone distract her and I'll grab them. Hey! She ate them all! Well, all the good ones!



awww Kerrianna... that's so nice.
I didn't think about that. I was assuming that if they were the type of person to have a casual fling that they wouldn't care about me... but yeah, you're right lots of people do have trouble where they get too attached... aargh.
Can't be doing with that type of thing. Relationships... bleh.
(I'm not sure if I hate them so much because I'm just so "over" them, or because I've turned into a heartless sod, or because I'm so scared of getting hurt, or because I'm so scared of hurting someone else, or because of my TGness... quite possibly a combination of all of those things, the TG thing definitely.... but that's a subject for another thread :p)

It's not for everyone anyway. I know lots of people who enjoy living free of a major relationship. You might just be in a sorting out / self-protective phase. Just be honest with yourself as much as possible about it. If you're not sure, just be open to opportunity. Life is funny. You think you have a handle on it and wham! something or someone comes to knock you off your feet.


Wow, what you say is very cool. But I have to admit... to be absolutely honest..... if I was definitely transitioning.... if I had a choice/was allowed.... I think I'd just keep it a total secret and live as a "normal man"! :worried:
Like... I wouldn't WANT to tell anyone, and would just want to get on with my life as a boy. But obviously, in reality, that might not be ethical/possible.
That makes total sense. It's your life. However anyone really seriously in love with you will feel their trust shaken if you were to keep it a secret for a long time and then have it exposed by someone or something else. Even if you are the one to tell eventually, the longer you wait the more hurt there could be. It is a bit of a mind blower from their perspective. Besides anyone seriously with you is going to want to know all about your childhood and you're either going to have to lie or fess up then. Well, I guess you could say "I don't want to talk about my childhood!" and run out of the room, but they're not going to leave that alone if they love you.

Personally Pocs I think you can make this all work with whatever you do. You do have the ability to. Anyone you choose to be with will be lucky and the right person will love you even more for all who you are. It might be someone who isn't TG but just knows and understands it from their own experiences with friends, family, education, etc. Tis a big world out there and it would be a shame if you hid yourself from others out of fear. But like I said, relationships aren't for everyone. Some creative people like to stay out of them because it gives them the edge to keep creating. Others flourish within them. You will find your own path. :hugs:

[Iniquity Blonde GG]

oi im watching u all :rolleyes: next one to knab me chocies gets it !! :devil: a :kickbutt: that is !! :blushing:

[pocoyo]

Hehe! Durn WickedBlonde eatin' all the good choccies!

Thank you for taking the time to reply so excellently and helpfully Kez :hugs:



That makes total sense. It's your life. However anyone really seriously in love with you will feel their trust shaken if you were to keep it a secret for a long time and then have it exposed by someone or something else.
That's so true... I know what it's like to suddenly find something shocking out (that my dad might not be my biological dad).... and it DOES really shake you. Oh man... that's another concern... what would I tell my kids. I know how awful it is to think that the man you love, who IS your dad... might not be related to you by blood.... oh deary deary me! (Hahaha getting a bit ahead of yourself there pocs ol' chap! "What will I tell my kids" :lol2:

I guess I was hoping that my wife/boyfriend would never have to find out... wait.... I just wrote "wife" didn't I?... :o ... whooo doesn't do relationships eh pocs? :o


Even if you are the one to tell eventually, the longer you wait the more hurt there could be. It is a bit of a mind blower from their perspective. Besides anyone seriously with you is going to want to know all about your childhood and you're either going to have to lie or fess up then. Well, I guess you could say "I don't want to talk about my childhood!" and run out of the room, but they're not going to leave that alone if they love you.
You're right.... like... how would I not tell them about my childhood... although I am pretty androgynous in some photos, and my upbringing was pretty "unisex" ... but I don't want to be twisting things... hmm.....
Yeah exactly.. what a mind blower. Maybe its better if I didn't tell them.... oh shut up pocoyo you have to tell them.....
I just don't want them to think I'm a girl :( or that any part of me has been girly :(


Personally Pocs I think you can make this all work with whatever you do. You do have the ability to. Anyone you choose to be with will be lucky Oh thank you very much. OMG.. when people say that to me in real life I go "mumble mumble yeah right..." meaning "not with these issues" (being uncomfy with my female body)... but with you saying it as you mean it there... I don't NEED to say that because if I was a boy I wouldn't have those issues... :eek: wow. That felt weird! And good.

and the right person will love you even more for all who you are. It might be someone who isn't TG but just knows and understands it from their own experiences with friends, family, education, etc.
You know... that's sounding pretty nice :)

Tis a big world out there and it would be a shame if you hid yourself from others out of fear. But like I said, relationships aren't for everyone. Some creative people like to stay out of them because it gives them the edge to keep creating. Others flourish within them. You will find your own path. :hugs:
Thank you very much for your cool and helpful comments Kezwin!
(And for knowing that I'm not evil even though I have the urge to live in stealth!)

:hugs:

[Holly]

How about this, Poc... whatever level of trust and disclosure you would expect from your partner/date, that is what you would yourself offer to them.

[Iniquity Blonde GG]

I know i shouldnt use comparrisons here, but acceptance no matter sexuality,crede/colour, etc does it really matter ?? as long as those people are happy ?? :rolleyes: finding somone ( soulmate ), if they love you for what you are, & u make each other feel happy/wanted, then its that, thats the main agenda . NO relationship is ever easy ( hell i should know :rolleyes: ), so.... be what you want to be, be with who you want to be :happy:

[Kieron Andrew]

How about this, Poc... whatever level of trust and disclosure you would expect from your partner/date, that is what you would yourself offer to them.
oh i sooooooooo agree with this statement!

[pocoyo]

How about this, Poc... whatever level of trust and disclosure you would expect from your partner/date, that is what you would yourself offer to them.

Wow Holly... that's a really good point.....
That's got me thinking...... I guess I don't expect much from a potential partner if I'm honest :eek: ..... I think it's probably because I've been so hurt.

I do usually actually live by that rule... treat others as you'd like to be treated yourself.
Perhaps in this case though I'm being selfish in wanting to keep stuff to myself.... but I've always been a really, really private person.

Casual relationship wise... that could be a good thing... not expecting much from them and hopefully they're not expecting much from me .... :heehee:

[Edit: I personally wouldn't mind if I had a partner who revealed to me that they were born the other gender.... but then I wouldn't, would I? lol. Now that I have a lot of friends and experience in such matters it wouldn't really shock me. (Wheras other, "normal" people, don't have that advantage).]

[pocoyo]

Oops, got carried away replying to Holly and forgot Wicked!


I know i shouldnt use comparrisons here, but acceptance no matter sexuality,crede/colour, etc does it really matter ?? as long as those people are happy ?? :rolleyes: finding somone ( soulmate ), if they love you for what you are, & u make each other feel happy/wanted, then its that, thats the main agenda . NO relationship is ever easy ( hell i should know :rolleyes: ), so.... be what you want to be, be with who you want to be :happy:

Ooh I totally agree! I don't think those things should matter at all. To anyone.
I'm just worrying about it being ok to be what I want to be with who I want to be! If that makes sense. Not everyone is as open-minded as us lot here are they? Sadly :(
I guess maybe some "normal people" won't mind and will just be cool with it... maybe... (like how you say about finding someone that makes you happy and that's the important thing).

[PaulaJaneThomas]

Hi Pocoyo,

Whilst I can fully appreciate why you feel the need to be in stealth mode I think there's a big down-side. You're mentioned the scenario about being outed by an ex but what if you're in a great (but stealth) relationship but your SO finds out that you're trans? Even if they don't find out, have you considered how stressful and wearing your fear that they might some day discover the truth may be? Have you considered how that fear may impact on your ability to function properly within the relationship? By denying your past aren't you in a sense exchanging one lie for another? Sorry I only have questions. If I had all the answers I'd long ago have been able to move on to my main objective of world domination :devil:

[pocoyo]

Hehe! Hello Badger :D

Ah yes... that could be very very wearing. I mean... my family might let it slip or something, so the fear of that could make me really anxious all the time. And being overly anxious is something I am trying to get away from/leave behind!

Ah... so basically.. I'm buggered then aren't I!!

Live as a girl.. be unhappy with girly body and not be able to have relationships.

Live as a boy... be more happy with self but still not be able to have relationships due to not wanting to say I used to be a girl/stress of lying or having to admit I used to be a girl...

EEEK!

I guess I'll stick with the "become a boy... have casual flings" option.

.... but I'll never be a daddy then... :cry:

Why am I suddenly feeling down? lol!

Haha... no it's ok I'm not too down, it's sortable outable... somehow....
I know there is an answer...

[Sally24]

I'm a crossdresser so "Stealth" isn't an option for me, but I think sharing the truth with your partner is something that we CD's run into alot. Many don't tell for 20-30 years and then it comes out accidently. Usually the transgendered fact is not the issue, the secrets/lies are usually the real issue! I'd have to recomend that stealth is a possiblity, but that at some point, the truth would have to come out to a sexual partner. It's just not fair to keep something that central to your being a secret from a lover or a mate (as in wife or husband).

I am sure there are plenty that have taken the deep stealth route and have been happy, but I personally could not live like that.

Always love your threads Pocoyo!

Sally

[bi_weird]

This is one of those threads which makes me realize how important it is to have a voice from the 'other side'. No, not that other side. I mean cisgendered people. Thing is, gender is (for reasons which are inexplicable to me) a big deal for most people. Straight guys are scared of being seen as gay. Straight girls find the idea of a lesbian kiss gross. As for gays...they're not necessarily better. (*laughs and is totally joking in this next statement* we bi's really are the only ones who have it right) It ends up a really big issue, but I do also think people can get over that. There's my very gay friend, one of those who calls heteros "breeders", who admist to having some opposite-sex attachement. Most of my housemates have said that if they feel in love with someone of the same sex (they're all straight) then they'd be open to it. I really do think there's a point to this ramble, I'm trying to get there. But yes see, it's a big but surmoutable issue, gender. People are going to have a hard time with it, but if someone cares for you, they'll be able to make an effort to understand. I think the biggest concession to be made is not either living in stealth mode or never dating, but rather chosing to relocate to a place where people are more open minded. Here in Ann Arbor it' d fly alright. Home where I came from, whole 'nother story. Your odds of finding someone openminded enough to think rather than just react are pretty slim in some areas. If you wanna date in stealth mode, knowing that a long term relationship requires you to come out, I'd think it's a lot easier done in an urban area where people are more likely to be accepting.
(Actually, back to the bi joke I made earlier. I'd still say you have to come out. Guess I'm not totally gender blind. I do find that with most prospective dates I mentally put myself as either the male or the female, and it'd upset me to date a guy for a long time only to find out he wasn't born that way. I'd get over it, but I'd feel like I deserve to know who he is. I guess I wouldn't feel like I knew him if I couldn't know about his past, and it'd definitely feel like he'd lied to me if we'd been together long enough and he didn't tell me)

[kerrianna]

Ah... so basically.. I'm buggered then aren't I!!

Live as a girl.. be unhappy with girly body and not be able to have relationships.

Live as a boy... be more happy with self but still not be able to have relationships due to not wanting to say I used to be a girl/stress of lying or having to admit I used to be a girl...



Hey Pocs...:slap:

Sorry, but you needed that. If you really want to give yourself the best chance at being happy...read what you're saying. What I see is you saying you'd like to live as a boy but do not want to admit you used to be a girl. You have control of this issue there. It's not easy, but you do have the choice to decide that in fact IT WAS OKAY for you to choose to live as a boy after being born as a girl. You get your mind around that, really believe it, the same way all your friends here believe it about you, the same way anyone in your future who really values you for who you are will believe it, you accept and treasure that and you will be able to just be who you were meant to be without fear and hiding.

Do you refer to yourself as a musician to others? Well you weren't born one. You became one. You don't go around thinking "ohmigod what if they find out I wasn't always a musician?". That's a little flippant of an example, since what you're talking about is a way bigger, more unusual thing, not well understood in our society...but the point I was trying to make is that YOU decide what you want to be and YOU decide that it's okay to have made those changes. You don't have to go around telling everyone you meet "hi I'm a guy, used to be a girl" because it will be TMI for most acquaintances - they don't need to know. But the people you care for you say, "hey, I'm a way more interesting person than you even think." But YOU have to accept that who you are, where you are travelling to is OK. Really truly deeply when you make a decision don't second guess yourself. There's no right or wrong way to live in this world (do no harm is a good guideline, karma, etc, but really it's your life). You are a kind caring compassionate person and whatever decisions you make you are doing with the best of intentions. Don't ever feel guilty or shameful about that. You need to believe that what you do is right, is not harming anyone else, and that no one has the right to judge you on anything else than how you treat them. Get your head around that and you will be happy as who you are, and accepting and honest about your past, which after all is just that, your past.

There is no need for you not to get everything you want in life. Don't sell yourself short. And don't complicate your life by trying to do this elaborate dance. Life's too short for that. Keep it simple and honest and have faith that things will work out for you. Be yourself, love your self, be true, and love and friends will always come to you. :love:

[PaulaJaneThomas]

Hehe! Hello Badger :D

Ah yes... that could be very very wearing. I mean... my family might let it slip or something, so the fear of that could make me really anxious all the time. And being overly anxious is something I am trying to get away from/leave behind!

Ah... so basically.. I'm buggered then aren't I!!

Live as a girl.. be unhappy with girly body and not be able to have relationships.

Live as a boy... be more happy with self but still not be able to have relationships due to not wanting to say I used to be a girl/stress of lying or having to admit I used to be a girl...

EEEK!

I guess I'll stick with the "become a boy... have casual flings" option.

.... but I'll never be a daddy then... :cry:

Why am I suddenly feeling down? lol!

Haha... no it's ok I'm not too down, it's sortable outable... somehow....
I know there is an answer...

I don't think your situation is as hopeless as you currently think. In this country there have been quite TSs (M2F and F2M) who have married non-trans partners. Steven Whittle of Press For Change is a very prominent and well-known F2M in this country. He recently married. Being honest and open has clearly worked for him. I see no reason why it shouldn't work for others.

[pocoyo]

Awww Kerri you're so... so.... well... so!
Thank you :hugs: Makes so much sense and put in such an understanding (and easy to understand) way.
You are such a sweet and thoughtful person... you really take time to... well to think about a person's point of view and to understand how they feel and then reply accordingly.. haha sorry to be going on about how cool you are.. but I just appreciate it :love:
Thank you.


*****

Ah Paula... you are of course absolutely right. I so admire those transmen.
I think the problem with me is... I don't want to be a transman at least not publically... I want to be a man.... if that makes sense.

No I'm not shunning my peers or anything! As everyone here knows, I love transmen. I love everyone haha!

****


I am worried that if I am a transman... people will never see me as a proper, real man (which I know I am/can be).
Wheras if they didn't know I was a transman.... they would just see me as a proper man!


Anyway enough of this ramble. People have surely had enough of this latest pocoyo whinge....time to shhhh now pocs mate :D

*zips it*


Thanks people for your coool replies :bighug: