Zealot

[Just Plain Kay]

I try to avoid debating with fools, but in another forum this one set me off:

If God made them that way, and God does not make mistakes, then why are the transgendered people pushing so hard to change the way God made them? Did God make a mistake and stick a "man in a woman's body" or a "woman in a man's body"?

As a transgendered person, I can assure you that I am not "pushing so hard to change". I believe that my "self" resides in my brain. And I know my "self" to be female. It is a fact, and nothing you believe or perceive can alter it. I did not choose to be this way, I would not choose to be this way, and it is not a "lifestyle".

A bit of research would teach you that gender is a continuum - not an absolute. It's only in how one lives one's life that the question of morals applies. No, I do not believe God made a "mistake" any more than I fault Him for any other infant who is not perfect by normal physical standards.

By now, you have formed an opinion of me based upon preconception. You will be surprised to learn that I am a 65-year-old grandfather, very happily married, to all outward appearances male and an active member of the Anglican Church.

If I were to make a decision - based upon my considerable research and personal knowledge - to live as the "opposite" sex, I would consider such a move to be both congruent with my "self" as I know it and none of your business.

[AmberTG]

When people say things like that, I ask them why, If God "makes them that way, and God doesn't make mistakes" then why are so many babies born with Down's syndrome? Most people don't consider that God gave mankind free will and, because of this, He does not take a direct role in these things. That would interfere with our free will. He simply waits for us to come to him, we are free to choose. How we are born is up to the forces of nature and environment.

[Felix]

Hi Kay I feel that nobody made a mistake with me it's just how I am. I will not place the blame at anyones door, this is how I was born and that's that. I cannot blame it on 'God' cos I do not know If I believe in that concept anymore and even if I did I couldn't blame it cos I was created by my parents and them by theirs and so on. So I am who I am and will be who I will be xx Felix :hugs:

[Just Plain Kay]

I even have a problem with the word "mistake" in this context. It presumes that there's something wrong with us because we're "not normal".

"Not normal" is not a pejorative, though it's often used as such. Normal isn't good as opposed to bad. It's simply an exception to what most often occurs. Most people are less than 6' 4" tall. A person who is 6' 8" is not normal. But he is not a mistake.

In some times and in some places, the transgendered garnered much respect.

These days and in this place, that may not be the case. But who has changed? Only those who judge us.

We are still who we are - and who we always have been and always will be.

[Maggie Kay]

This is a very thought provoking thread for me. My mother had me out of "wedlock" and called me her mistake. I was told that I was a pretty and smart child. She said these were the reasons was why I was not given away for adoption. She only wanted a girl and was convinced I was going be a girl, so my gender was a major issue. I was a "pretty" and almost effeminate, boy. It has been a huge burden on me to overcome the idea of being a mistake. I think that my gender is a not a mistake but being male feels so wrong. Late onset TG has brought these ideas back to me. I find is ironic that now I believe that inside I really am a girl. I wonder what effect her statements had on my TG condition. I stopped trying to please her decades ago. She dressed me when I was a baby as a girl complete with long hair. I knew from age six onwards that my maleness was bad. Perhaps it is like the Biblical proverb "As the twig is bent, so grows the tree".

[Holly]

"Mistake" is such a prejudiced word. Who on earth has the right to call anyone a mistake? Just because my demonstration of gender does not match someone else's concept does not make me or the other person right or wrong. Where are all those zealots protesting at the obesity clinics because people are trying to grasp some control of their weight problems; or protesting breast augmentation surgery. Were these folks mistakes as well? Am I a mistake because I want green eyes instead of brown eyes?

Kay, I agree with you in that I am not pushing hard to change, for I would not change a thing about me. Rather I am trying to come to a clearer understanding of myself. At this point i my life, I really like me! I don't blame God, rather I praise God for making me who I am. I was put here for a reason... a reason I may not fully understand, but a reason, none the less.

Being transgendered is no more of a "flaw" then being left handed. In fact, being transgendered for me has given me an insight as to what half the world population endures and feels. It is very unlikely that I will ever have 100% understanding of all things fem, but I do honestly believe that my empathy level is many notches above the average male. For the life I have been given, it is right for me.

[Teresa Amina]

OK. :rant: I don't often jump in, but this s--- p----- me off. God/dess did not make you. Or me. Or anyone else since Creation (if you believe in that). Your parents made you. Genetics made you. The physical and social environment influenced you. If I make a machine which makes Widgets and set it in motion it is not I that am making Widgets. The machine is. The Universe is in a sense a machine for this purpose. Arrrgh!:hiding: :Peace:

[Kimberley]

Okay Theresa, want to tell us how you really feel? :eek: Just kidding.

I think I have to agree with Theresa and everyone else here. Being TG is not a mistake brought about on a religious scale. The scientific evidence points the other way.

I have enough to deal with in all of this without adding the religious element. There is nothing religious in being TG. There is no choice; and there is no escape from it. It just is. Plain and simple.

We can try to rationalize in any number of ways but in the end it just is. Our rationalizations are simply an attempt to explain what we dont understand. If our current science still cant definitively explain it, how can a scholar that has nothing to do with it explain it? It cant be done today any more than it could 2000 or more years ago when I am sure the extent of their scientific knowledge far surpassed anything we will see in this millenium...:rolleyes:

Okay, now I shall join Theresa in a harmonized primal scream.... (I get the tenor part!!!!)

:hugs:
Kimberley

[azure]

In order to protect younger genes, there became a necessity to diversify the genders and within relationship dynamics. To nutrure and ensure that the newest genes were given best chance to replicate, we may observe the presence of modifications at chromozonal level, and differences in areas of the brain. The presentation of gay and lesbian individuals, genes method of providing an alternative parental or guardian to provide for younger genes in the event of parents expiring. The transgendered modification to the gene strategy, a presence of genes that change gender to provide an even stronger bond, and greater opportunity fro younger genes to survive with the addition of greater numbers of nuturers. The core strategy being to protect the young genes so they may fight for the opportunity to make more little genes.

However, the genes only maintain the strategy while it is successful, once more efficient method of survival is produced, then the old strategy is phased out.

It would be interesting to know if there is a correlation to gender ratios within key poplulations and the presentation of TG individuals of a number which may indicate the presence of a TG stable strategy of genetic support.