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Kimberley
02-25-2007, 10:24 PM
It has been a while since I have done this. I hope everyone enjoys it.
*****************
Sex vs Gender. Is there a difference? You bet!

It's a.....
The screams of new life fill the delivery room and the doctor looks at the newborn and declares "It's a boy!" or "It's a girl!" From that moment forward the approach to raising the child is set within the typical boundaries of its genetic gender; that is as a boy or as a girl. In most cases, this is correct because the child is cisgendered meaning its genetic sex and gender are aligned, or one and the same.

Boys are raised to be athletic, macho and girls are raised to be soft and sensitive. There is a large difference between the sexes and their upbringing. Consider how your brother or sister was raised differently from you. But what happens when the wires get crossed and the little boy knows he is different, that his sex doesn't match the feelings he has about himself or the opposite for the little girl? Their gender role and their sex may be one and the same but their true gender and sex are divergent. The confusion this creates for the child is only the beginning.

The bottom line is that we learn our gender role regardless of our sex. It is forced upon us by society; parents, teachers, religious leaders, peers, employers to name just a few. Everywhere we turn we are assumed to be in the gender of our genetic sex. The child has absolutely no choice in the matter.

Parents are generally ill-equipped or informed to deal with a transgendered child. If they do see symptoms, gender is not usually a consideration in their thinking. They are more likely to tell little Billy "Boys just don't play with dolls. Here are your trucks, play with them." No consideration as to why Billy wants to play with the dolls is given. The same holds true for Cindy who wants to play football instead of badminton. Often the thought that "It's just a phase, s/he will get over it." is foremost in the parent's mind. Most often the child does, but what of that small portion of the population who don't get over it?

Guilt Shame and Fear; The Terrible Trio.
In the vast majority of these transgendered children, they learn to go under the radar. They learn that it is wrong to feel like a girl or in the case of the girl, to feel like a boy. This sets up feelings of guilt. "It is wrong to feel like this so I am bad." The child has no frame of reference for their feelings, only that they are told the feelings when acted upon are wrong.

This leads to the second of the terrible trio; Shame. Knowing that their feelings are wrong, they become ashamed of who they are, of that core person they have to hide and hide them they do. They become accomplished liars just for self preservation because it is wrong to feel as they do. The problem that still exists within, is a driving need to express themselves, their true self.

The child plays dress up. The boy finds lingerie or dresses and the girl becomes a tomboy. This leads to the third of the trio to complete the circle; Fear. Fear of discovery. The cycle is now set for a life of misery.
Isn't that a wonderful way to live out a childhood?

Coming of Age: Puberty.
This is a time of change for everyone. Sexual identities become more prevalent. Bodies change, social attitudes and approaches change. It is the most difficult time for every human being, but for the transgendered child it is doubly so.

First they see the changes and don't particularly want them because they don't fit. While this is a source of anxiety for the transgendered child there is now the second wave of transgenderism emerging. That is the cross dresser.
The cross dresser often emerges at puberty and has never questioned his or her sexuality and gender but they now find that there is need to dress as the opposite sex. This is often fueled by raging hormones and presents a sexual element to their cross dressing. Frequently this is viewed by the CD as a sexual thing and for some it is, but for others it is only a beginning. Regardless, most CD's learn what the child transsexual has already learned; Guilt, shame and fear.

I think it is worth noting at this juncture that not all children who are transgendered as young children are transsexual nor are all adolescents who discover they are cross dressers are transvestic fetishists or for that matter purely CD's. The transsexual can emerge at any time but the one thing every TS can say is "I just know I am the wrong sex." It is a feeling that is rooted in their core.

To the CD, cross dressing is often a celebration of that sex they most relate to and admire. Emulating that gender is natural for them and provides a level of emotional comfort in the role. The transvestic fetishist cross dresses primarily for sexual gratification. As the CD youth ages into young adulthood, the sexual element to cross dressing wanes.

Now, the real kicker to all of this. The cross dresser or transsexual is by and large, heterosexual. This only adds to the confusion.
The truth is;


The incidence of homosexuality within the transgendered community is no greater than the population at large.

Little Billy might be a girl or feel like a girl, but he likes girls, in fact, he loves girls. Same with Cindy, she loves boys.

Adulthood
As adults we have accepted that we are different although we often fight it. We often deny we are who we are. We think we are ill and the terrible trio lives on. We take macho careers, we marry thinking it will cure us. WRONG! It is here to stay. We purge ourselves of everything we own and we are miserable. We hide this from our partners and we are miserable. Of course, eventually it comes out one way or another, and our partners react just the way we knew they would, only now with the passage of time there is a family involved and finances and a partner who is in shock and doesnt understand any of it. S/he wonders how s/he could have been so wrong. S/he wants to know if s/he isnt good enough as a partner in their role as husband or wife. They are horribly affronted by the deception and finally, their social conditioning tells them that this is wrong. CHA CHING! The formula for disintegration of the family is there.

The transgendered finds themselves alone, ashamed, and ripe for a host of mental disorders most often presented as Anxiety and/or Depression. But it doesn't need to be that way. The path to recovery of a marriage from this is long and painful, but if walked together can create even stronger bonds than either partner could have imagined. But, that is for another article.

:hugs:
Kimberley

Billijo49504
02-25-2007, 10:27 PM
OK, I guess you said it all...BJ

MJ
02-25-2007, 10:57 PM
very well done here is my take on this

well now Paul who is now MJ still likes girls .... but MJ is now a girl too and would love a girl .... but hrt as rewired her brain and MJ also like guys a little but what way does she turn ? my head hurts ...

yes it's not fun, because dealing with people everyday getting read.. and the voice some days is passable and the next not, and trying to have a good attitude all the time , trying to be the real me, and getting hurt .. words do hurt ... sometimes it's better to be a cross dresser than a transsexual ..
some days i wish i were dead, then some days it's great being a girl
and then there are the " real men " who think this is a cop out
i like to see them try this... sorry just a little bit more of MJ
welcome to my nightmare

Kimberley
02-25-2007, 11:07 PM
Marissa, the choir is listening, believe me.

I think that it (transition) would have been much easier on us 25 or 30 years ago in most respects, at least in the long run. Now the run isnt as long. I wont say that what your experiencing hasnt weighed on my mind because it would be a lie. Still and all, I think that most people dont quite get the TS angle of things and just how difficult it actually can be. Maybe I'll put another one up on that a little ways down the road.

Thanks so much for the input hon.
:hugs:
Kimberley

Kimberley
02-26-2007, 12:16 AM
Beth, there is no set path, no easy way for any of this. Your first and most important resource is you and that means in all respects, mentally, physically and socially. Until those stars are aligned, you will just be wandering around aimlessly.

Having said that there are certain unavoidable protocols to follow; the first and unquestionably the most important is a therapist, preferrably one who is gender experienced. That is when the questions will start to get answers, and surprise surprise, they are all inside you! Take that step hon, it is the first one and the one that will open up the doors to the life you really want.

:hugs:
Kimberley

marie354
02-26-2007, 12:28 AM
Very good and well written. Hits the nail squarely. Was that a 22 ouncer? It drove that 20p nail all the way home in one swing.

MJ
02-26-2007, 09:20 AM
Marie/sandy you are so right. Kimberley thank you so much for this thread it's hitting way to close to home , emotionally for me " must be a new moon or something". and it's how i feel at this time.

Katie Ashe
02-26-2007, 09:35 AM
Not a bad summary, nice job, took a long time to put it together.

Have you considered reading Helen Boyd's books?

Katie Ashe: My sex is assigned Male, my gender was raised male, my heart is female, and my body is offensive to me. my attraction is to women 99%, as 1% to men. If I had to chose between penis and vagina, I'd pick niether. Cause, niether define whom, and what I am! :2c:

Kimberley
02-26-2007, 09:52 AM
Marissa,
My apologies if I have upset you at all. :hugs: As you know I put these little ditties up every once in a while to try and stir some discussion and debate.

Katie,
I actually wrote that piece in about an hour, maybe a little less.

I have read some of Helen's materials but not all. I do enjoy her writing though. I occasionally visit the MHB site but find the flavour isn't quite to my taste although there is always some good discussion.

Marie,
Thank you.

:hugs: to all
Kimberley

Katie Ashe
02-26-2007, 09:57 AM
Kimberley, darn girl you write fast. I too find myself a bit outta placed on MHB site also, but I do think she is on to something. Anyways, nice job :love:

Victoria Anne
02-26-2007, 11:05 AM
Kimberley, wow... that hits at home,I have been trying hard to find who I am and as I read this I quite nearly wept as it describes much of my life growing up. I can only say,very well written. Thank you, believe it or not it helps me as has this site and all the wonderful girls here.

Bonnie D
02-26-2007, 12:06 PM
Kimberley,

I grew up with all those questions and feelings. I learned to hide everything quite well. I was good at sports and truly did enjoy them, however, I wanted so much to be a girl. I also thought a lot about being with a boy sexually and experiencing all the feelings a girl would feel and knowing that couldn't possibly happen. Another confusing issue. I felt one day I would meet a man, and knew it would have to be a gay man, and then I would experience as best as I could all those feelings. When I finally did meet one in my early 20s I put myself in as much as a female frame of mind as I could and thoroughly enjoyed the experience. However, being gay was also not accepted at the time and so I also had to keep that fact well hidden. Society and family expectations and the trio you discussed all played a part in shaping my future. I don't know if anyone else has expereinced this growing up as a TG and it probably would make an interesting topic but after paying so much attention to women in stories, news and movies I got a Sir Galahad complex if there is such a thing. I wanted to be a protector of women, girls when I was younger. I met my wife who had disfunctional family, at least in my opinion, and she was oppressed by a very strict Sicilian father. There was a strong attraction between us and so I decided to save her from her family and marry her. I would also be cured of all my "ills". Neither happened and rather than freeing her I was pulled into the drama of her family and kept her company and rather than stopping my cd'ing I decided to tell her about it, another mistake. I had to throw everything out and promise not to do it again. I made the promise that I knew I wouldn't be able to keep and so it has been kept secret ever since and never been discussed again. We have two great children, now in their early 20s, and I'm still living with the trio (guilt, shame and fear). My mind is in great turmoil.

Bonnie

CaptLex
02-26-2007, 12:35 PM
The incidence of homosexuality within the transgendered community is no greater than the population at large.
But it certainly seems that it's higher among the transgendered than among the cisgendered (at least among the transguys I know). Or is it just that cisgendered gay and bi people are more closeted? :idontknow:

JoAnnDallas
02-26-2007, 02:24 PM
Pretty much sums it all up. Good post.

Kimberley
02-26-2007, 02:39 PM
But it certainly seems that it's higher among the transgendered than among the cisgendered (at least among the transguys I know). Or is it just that cisgendered gay and bi people are more closeted? :idontknow:

***********
Good point Capn.
I think that in the transman population we see a lot more "gay" transmen than in the M2F population, at least on a per capita basis. I actually thought about this before placing that generalized statement. Here are my thoughts,

The F2M population can go under the radar very easily, much more easily than the M2F population. That makes it all the more difficult to identify. Therefore it is a reasonable assumption to make that the F2M's who do come out are more likely to be open about their sexuality. I think that this is because the F2M population where they come out, are already very much in the realm of being transsexual rather than CD or TG.

More musings by Kimberley.

:hugs:

CaptLex
02-26-2007, 07:26 PM
The F2M population can go under the radar very easily, much more easily than the M2F population. That makes it all the more difficult to identify. Therefore it is a reasonable assumption to make that the F2M's who do come out are more likely to be open about their sexuality. I think that this is because the F2M population where they come out, are already very much in the realm of being transsexual rather than CD or TG.
Huh? I think you lost me, hon. Do you mean that when we come out we're usually amongst other TS people, so we feel more comfortable about it than if we were to come out among the general population - because we expect other TSs to be open-minded about it? :happy:

Kimberley
02-26-2007, 09:55 PM
Okay Capn, let me try again.

It is difficult to acquire any kind of statistics regarding transgendered population. This is because we are so good at staying under the radar.

F2M's are even more difficult to acquire any kind of stats on because cross dressing can be so easily hidden as just being within everyday life. So for those F2M's who do surface are often TS to the core meaning there is a whole uncounted population.

Once out the TS is not particularly concerned with sexual orientation and hormone treatments really are the only thing that changes that. So for most F2M's they are also hetero in probably the same numbers per capita as the population at large.

The problem of establishing that percentage is still the difficulty by the number of F2M's who can hide so easily.

My thought is that there is no reason to think that the numbers of F2M's who CD covertly is any different than those M2F's. However the F2M TS cant hide any more than the M2F TS. So the numbers regarding sexuality among F2M's is likely very skewed.

Did I get it this time? If not you can send me to the brig.... Oh and who will be the ummmm guard?:tongueout

:hugs:
Kimberley

Barb Valentine
02-26-2007, 09:59 PM
Kimberley I enjoy reading it
Thanks for sharing

MJ
02-27-2007, 12:46 AM
Marissa,

My apologies if I have upset you at all. :hugs: As you know I put these little ditties up every once in a while to try and stir some discussion and debate.

Katie,
I actually wrote that piece in about an hour, maybe a little less.

I have read some of Helen's materials but not all. I do enjoy her writing though. I occasionally visit the MHB site but find the flavour isn't quite to my taste although there is always some good discussion.

Marie,
Thank you.

:hugs: to all
Kimberley
not at all , i am having relationship issues as in lack of .. and there is someone i want to talk to but i am scared thats all
you know my three friends "Guilt Shame and Fear" Fear being the big one
and until it hurts bad enough i won't do anything but suffer

Colleentg
02-27-2007, 01:45 AM
Very well put.
I once heard something I consider very profound -
"Sex is between the legs, Gender is between the ears"

CaptLex
03-01-2007, 01:27 AM
My thought is that there is no reason to think that the numbers of F2M's who CD covertly is any different than those M2F's. However the F2M TS cant hide any more than the M2F TS. So the numbers regarding sexuality among F2M's is likely very skewed.

Did I get it this time? If not you can send me to the brig.... Oh and who will be the ummmm guard?:tongueout

You can choose whoever (whomever?) you want to guard you. :heehee: I understood almost all of it (and agree with it), but that last paragraph (above) threw me again. I even gave it a few days in case my head is screwed on wrong, but I'm still lost there. Don't worry, I think I got the gist of it. :p

Charleen
03-01-2007, 07:30 AM
Very well put! My life in a nutshell.

Gina_darling
03-01-2007, 08:32 AM
That was very comprehensive, I couldn't have put it better myself!

I have been quite stressed for a while doing a difficult course at university (I'm training to be a vet). I have also had times when I've felt quite down. However now that I am open to myself about who I am, I am much happier because of it. Sitting here with my cattle notes open for my biggest exam of my career so far tomorrow as Gina is really relaxing and believe it or not helps me greatly. I won't be sitting the exam as Gina though, that would raise too many questions and I probably wouldn't be allowed to sit it!