Cool versions of masculinity

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

After seeing the obnoxious sort of overcompensating transguy on Dr. Keith, (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52736) I'm curious what folks consider cool versions of masculinity. I'll start with some of mine:

- St. Eddie (http://www.eddieizzard.com/home.izz) of course - Not just for being brave enough to be out, but also for being smart as hell (learning to do comedy in French, German and now Arabic) and his politically activism (regardless of whether you agree with his pro-EU stance or not).

- the late Steve Irvin - Scared of nothing, but full of the joy of childhood and able to cry over something beautiful or tragic.

- the Mythbuster guys - Smart, goofy, unafraid to look foolish and each totally doing their own thing.

- George Clooney - Smart, stylish, has figured out how to make the Hollywood system work for him (do some mainstream big budget films to make money, then go make less commercial personal films). Reminds me of...

- Cary Grant - Impeccable taste, eminently capable.

- And also.... Chow Yun-Fat (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000334/bio) - (At least the characters he played in the John Woo films.) Charismatic and easy-going style, but able to poke fun at himself.

- Gene Kelly - Don't know what he was like as a human being, but as a dancer I always liked what his NYT obit called his "vigorous athleticism, casual grace and an earthy masculinity."

Also ran: Jackie Chan (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000329/bio) - As the tagline for one of his movies said: No fear, no stunt doubles, no equal -- yet has a strong sense of humor doesn't take himself seriously. Would've made my list if it weren't for his paternalistic attitudes toward women. (Chalk it up to just not being able to overcome the way one was brought up.)

[CaptLex]

Off the top of my head, I can't think of too many well-known cool male figures (besides Bogie in Casablanca), but I've met several in my everyday life that have inspired me. These are usually men that I feel have the characteristics that my father (and other male relatives who were supposed to be my role models) lacked. Particularly those that are involved in their children's lives, are truly equal partners with their spouses and good examples for their communities. And I'm finding that these same men are open and accepting of my transitioning. I think I'm lucky to know them.

P.S. And I feel the same way you do about St. Eddie. :happy:

[Dasein9]

Socrates, as we know him through Plato -- Being a man means being able to think well. And, even though the West didn't catch on for millennia, he recognised that women can do pretty much everything men can do.

Bono -- Because he's hot and a rock star, and is using his clout to do something worthwhile. He's one of the rare celebrities whose political thoughts are worth listening to.

Neil Gaiman -- Because he tells stories that make people think without making a chore of it.

Hephaestus -- Okay, he did keep falling unhappily in love, but he was a creator of clever things, not a fighter.



Also ran: St. Augustine -- because he wept so at his mother's death. Misogynist by our standards, but not so much by the standards of his day.

[Abraxas]

Well, I have a feeling everyone knows my list, but hey, I'll list 'em anyway.

Eddie, I definitely have to agree with. :thumbsup:

Hugh Laurie and Stephen Fry are definitely up there as well. They're both really nice, great guys who are funny as well as damn good straight actors in their own rights. And both are incredible writers. Not to mention all the charity work they both do.
Hugh, on his own-- well, I could go on and on about his musical ability-- the man is aces at piano. And he rides motorbikes-- spectacular! Plus his little speech impediment just melts me.

David Bowie-- defying gender norms and just about everything else since the beginning of his career.

Brian May-- Animal Rights activist, environmentalist, astronomer, and basically all-around nice guy. And, of course, he's guitarist for the best band ever.

And I'll throw everyone for a loop here and say John Goodman. I've just always loved his personality. He seems like he'd be a big ol' teddy bear. :D

[ZenFrost]

David Bowie probably makes the top of my list. Like Abraxas said, he's been defying gender norms for his whole career.

Can I say fictional characters? Frodo and Sam would be on my list of I can. Yes, technically they don't exist and technically their Hobbits, but they showed affection for each other even though there wasn't a strong romantic connection. They weren't afraid to show their feelings and had the strength to defeat Sauron. (Okay so I'm a Lord of the Rings geek too.)

Oh, and Anton LaVey. He was practically a feminist so he wasn't stuck up being a macho man.

I guess I could also say Nietzsche because, well besides being nuts, he had some interesting perspectives and if you look closely, some interesting views on gender roles.

[Dasein9]

Nearly forgot -- John Stuart Mill -- Wrote The Subjection of Women, read about a dozen languages, and was an all around good guy.

Nietzsche? Really? He had some pretty controversial ideas about women. But oh! his writing is great stuff!

[ZenFrost]

Nietzsche? Really? He had some pretty controversial ideas about women. But oh! his writing is great stuff!

I wrote a paper for my philosophy class about him and I did a lot of research on his views of women (that was one of the key points of my paper). He did say some pretty mean stuff about women, but if you look closely, he said worse stuff about men. One particular quote was that "the perfect woman is a higher type of human than the perfect man." As far as his masculinity is concerned, I think he's really interesting for a nutcase. But that's only because I read his gender related stuff super closely.

[bi_weird]

Socrates, as we know him through Plato -- Being a man means being able to think well.
Bah. Socrates was the bain of my existence in my Great Books class freshman year. He's intelligent and all, but the way he argues is utterly annoying 'cause he proves things that aren't true. And he argues with bobble head dolls...*laughs* But then again, I don't really know much else about him 'cept the couple of things we read in that class so mayhaps I shouldn't be too critical...
Cool versions of masculinity...hrm that's hard. I've spent my life picking out strong women. Sam is a must. He is, afterall, my hero, and the man I would most like to be when I grow up. (I say this and people just sort of laugh, not realizing how serious I am)
Haha I show my demographic, but Dave Matthews for being generally awesome and rocking my life.
Einstein. A thinker on so many fronts, and so wonderfully beyond me.

[Dasein9]

He's intelligent and all, but the way he argues is utterly annoying 'cause he proves things that aren't true.

Where does he do this any more than any other philosopher?

That's one of the rumours that was circulated about him, but I don't think it's the truth at all.

[bi_weird]

Where does he do this any more than any other philosopher?
Dunno that he does. Haven't read much of anyone else. *laughs* I'm basically ignorant on the topic (I'm a lowly chemistry major so I haven't read much past what we had to for Great Books). He just bothered me because he'd make a statement that seems totally obvious, and is 99% true according to what you believe, and so you agree, and then he makes another based off of that that is also 99% true, and does this continually until those 1% bits that aren't true have accumulated into a statement contrary to what you believe. It took me a while to figure out how he was getting me to agree with things which seemed wrong, and that's how it happens, I think.

[Dasein9]

Uh-huh! That's called the Socratic Method, and actually takes a lot of skill to do right. One of the main points is to show us that we don't actually know what we think we know. It's annoying, but can be fun if done right.

Another main point is to find insight. Unlike science or maths, though, finding answers isn't necessarily the point of the exercise for Socrates.

I warn my students that Philosophy is very uncomfortable. But then, there are other things we do where we make ourselves uncomfortable on purpose, like roller coasters, or scary movies, or spicy food. And Philosophy has a bigger payoff. ;)

[bi_weird]

Yeah I'm too much of a scientist to go for that. It always annoyed me to come up with the wrong answer - felt like cheating. Interesting, but still cheating.
I can see myself reading more philosophy...but when I'm eighty and have more of an attention span for just thinking, rather than doing.